So yeah 2 years of fear of the Apocalypse(project rapture?), players quitting saying they are done and eagerly awaiting the next big Final Fantasy MMO, shells dying due to leaders quitting inlight of 14, a general lack of updates due to too many people being moved to work on 14.
Honestly I was worried myself that the population of this game would die come 14, so much so I even bought it myself to try it out incase it was going to be FFXI-mk2. Boy was all that worry and uncertainty with the playerbase of this game for nothing. 14 is a joke, even the players that like it agree with the reviews it's getting. There are less players on many of the servers than on XI and it was just released and is free to play right now.
I hope they wake up now and really give more support to XI and realise just how much worth is in this game...and how hard it is to make a successfull MMO.
Gamespot review of 14 below. Not just a one off bad review either, it's horrible problems are accepted by pretty much everyone...even the JP players seem to hate it.
Video review
http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/finalfantasy14/video/6280898/final-fantasy-xiv-online--after-the-battle-gameplay-movie?tag=bounce&contsessid=9e2700c8dd81fdbca697ac3f9240929d&
Written review
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/finalfantasy14/review.html?tag=topslot;title;1 prevBounce=6281074
Just incase anyone playing XI was still worried about impending doom and considering buying 14.
Edited, Oct 7th 2010 7:04am by preludes
·English·Theme
- Forums
- Final Fantasy XI
- General Discussion
- So about that apocalypse..
So about that apocalypse..Follow
I've been saying for a while now that it will take ages to get FFXIV to get enough content to keep people interested.
Even FFXI sucked when it first come out and it's a hundred times better then what it was back then.
There are a few other things that keep people playing FFXI too.
(A lot of people who are people may be holding back till the PS3 release before they can play FFXIV since their currant pc has issues with it.)
So for the time being it seems that FFXI isn't the sinking ship that some people thought it was.
Edited, Oct 7th 2010 7:02am by Janeash
Even FFXI sucked when it first come out and it's a hundred times better then what it was back then.
There are a few other things that keep people playing FFXI too.
(A lot of people who are people may be holding back till the PS3 release before they can play FFXIV since their currant pc has issues with it.)
So for the time being it seems that FFXI isn't the sinking ship that some people thought it was.
Edited, Oct 7th 2010 7:02am by Janeash
preludes wrote:
I hope they wake up now and really give more support to XI and realise just how much worth is in this game...and how hard it is to make a successfull MMO.
See, that right there is common sense.
And this is Square Enix we're talking about.
Their line of thinking is more likely to go something like this:
Quote:
FFXIV isn't doing well.
FFXI players aren't switching to FFXIV.
Therefor FFXI is holding FFXIV back by keeping FFXI players from switching over.
So we'll shut down FFXI so that FFXI players will switch to FFXIV.
FFXI players aren't switching to FFXIV.
Therefor FFXI is holding FFXIV back by keeping FFXI players from switching over.
So we'll shut down FFXI so that FFXI players will switch to FFXIV.
I certainly hope they don't start thinking like this, but knowing Square Enix...
Edited, Oct 7th 2010 8:48am by Lobivopis
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.
I thought of it first:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
Janeash wrote:
So for the time being it seems that FFXI isn't the sinking ship that some people thought it was.
Seems to me that we're floating along on a hull forged from several years of solid content, and sporting two shiny new masts decked out with Abyssea forged sails, with a third due to be installed in a couple of months time. Even the bilges don't smell too bad.
As ships go that sounds pretty seaworthy to me :)
And don't forget, their plan is to raise the cap to 99. Initially I expected the Abbeysea trilogy would be the vehicle they'd use for that, and probably that would be the end of new content of any substance.
However, unless they're going to raise the cap by 14 in one final go, then clearly they must at least have plans if not already having done some work on further content.
Of course it depends on numbers, but the idea that they'd kill off 11 in the HOPE it would feed 14 new players, presuming 11 is still financially viable, is crass; it would be a big gamble on their part, and SE pretty successful at what they do and have been for a long time.
I don't see them making that gamble as they obviously realise that a large number of 11's players are not interested in 14; after all, SE stated 14 is designed for the sort of players that largely avoid 11 like the plague due to its group-centric, grind-centric nature.
However, unless they're going to raise the cap by 14 in one final go, then clearly they must at least have plans if not already having done some work on further content.
Of course it depends on numbers, but the idea that they'd kill off 11 in the HOPE it would feed 14 new players, presuming 11 is still financially viable, is crass; it would be a big gamble on their part, and SE pretty successful at what they do and have been for a long time.
I don't see them making that gamble as they obviously realise that a large number of 11's players are not interested in 14; after all, SE stated 14 is designed for the sort of players that largely avoid 11 like the plague due to its group-centric, grind-centric nature.
XIV's pretty much a solid example of why rushing games to launch are bad. However, just because it's suffering now doesn't mean it'll not hurt XI later. It'll be interesting to see how different the game is, if at all, come PS3 release.
I'm just kind of sick of devs skimping on (desired) content to either add later or think we'd tolerate incomplete products with the "promise" whatever is coming someday, maybe, eventually. This isn't just restricted to new games, either.
I still pine for a modified server community for XI. That was probably one of the hardest things to let go of when I pretty much jumped from Diablo II way, way, way back. The things imaginative players and coders can do is amazing and has been an untapped market by SE with the closest thing being suggestion/feedback forum and, to some degree, windower and it's plug-ins. User generated content can be sickeningly fun when you're not just looking at god modes or impossibly difficult settings.
I'm just kind of sick of devs skimping on (desired) content to either add later or think we'd tolerate incomplete products with the "promise" whatever is coming someday, maybe, eventually. This isn't just restricted to new games, either.
I still pine for a modified server community for XI. That was probably one of the hardest things to let go of when I pretty much jumped from Diablo II way, way, way back. The things imaginative players and coders can do is amazing and has been an untapped market by SE with the closest thing being suggestion/feedback forum and, to some degree, windower and it's plug-ins. User generated content can be sickeningly fun when you're not just looking at god modes or impossibly difficult settings.
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
Janeash wrote:
I've been saying for a while now that it will take ages to get FFXIV to get enough content to keep people interested.
Even FFXI sucked when it first come out and it's a hundred times better then what it was back then.
There are a few other things that keep people playing FFXI too.
(A lot of people who are people may be holding back till the PS3 release before they can play FFXIV since their currant pc has issues with it.)
So for the time being it seems that FFXI isn't the sinking ship that some people thought it was.
Edited, Oct 7th 2010 7:02am by Janeash
Even FFXI sucked when it first come out and it's a hundred times better then what it was back then.
There are a few other things that keep people playing FFXI too.
(A lot of people who are people may be holding back till the PS3 release before they can play FFXIV since their currant pc has issues with it.)
So for the time being it seems that FFXI isn't the sinking ship that some people thought it was.
Edited, Oct 7th 2010 7:02am by Janeash
If you actually look back at some of the reviews that XI was given, it scored pretty high overall.
Gamespot, who gave XIV a meager 4.0 out of 10 gave the PC version of XI a 8.2 when it was first released.
Metacritic gave XI a 7.7 out of 10, whereas they gave XIV a 4.9
So you can't really say that XI came out with lackluster scores overall, cause in general, looking through all the online gaming sites and rummaging through some old reviews, FFXI scored fairly strong, and so far XIV isn't coming up with the same numbers.
Lady Jinte wrote:
Vlorsutes' Negotiation Skill rises 0.2 points
Vlorsutes' Observant Parent Skill rises 0.3 points
Vlorsutes' Argument Diffusing Skill rises 0.1 points
Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
Gamespot, who gave XIV a meager 4.0 out of 10 gave the PC version of XI a 8.2 when it was first released.
The PC release of course came some months after XI first saw the light of day, by the time the PC version was released many of the early rough edges had been smoothed over.
I think their score on XIV is perfectly justified, it has several serious 'issues' in terms of its' mechanics, which are seriously worse than XI's equivalents: it's hard to understand how a company could produce something inferior to a game that was designed 10 years and a generation or more of hardware ago.
I'm enjoying it ATM, but in spite of and not necessarily because of the game itself, how long my perseverance can put up with the horrendously laggy, mega-dialog/button click UI, and total anarchy that is the 'economy' (sic) currently, I don't know.
Edited, Oct 7th 2010 9:10am by Kragorn
Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
Janeash wrote:
I've been saying for a while now that it will take ages to get FFXIV to get enough content to keep people interested.
Even FFXI sucked when it first come out and it's a hundred times better then what it was back then.
There are a few other things that keep people playing FFXI too.
(A lot of people who are people may be holding back till the PS3 release before they can play FFXIV since their currant pc has issues with it.)
So for the time being it seems that FFXI isn't the sinking ship that some people thought it was.
Edited, Oct 7th 2010 7:02am by Janeash
Even FFXI sucked when it first come out and it's a hundred times better then what it was back then.
There are a few other things that keep people playing FFXI too.
(A lot of people who are people may be holding back till the PS3 release before they can play FFXIV since their currant pc has issues with it.)
So for the time being it seems that FFXI isn't the sinking ship that some people thought it was.
Edited, Oct 7th 2010 7:02am by Janeash
If you actually look back at some of the reviews that XI was given, it scored pretty high overall.
Gamespot, who gave XIV a meager 4.0 out of 10 gave the PC version of XI a 8.2 when it was first released.
Metacritic gave XI a 7.7 out of 10, whereas they gave XIV a 4.9
So you can't really say that XI came out with lackluster scores overall, cause in general, looking through all the online gaming sites and rummaging through some old reviews, FFXI scored fairly strong, and so far XIV isn't coming up with the same numbers.
I am not going by the reviews that were made at the time FFXI came out on pc release in NA but I am going from my own personal experiences of the game.
The game back then was terrible because things were much harder then they needed to be.
Anyone who spent hours in an alliance at lvl 50 being outlotted on papyrus would have to agree with me there.
It took me 6 weeks just to get genkai 1 completed but I ended up finding some french players to static with to get this done.
Also FFXI had been around for two years around this point?
Edited, Oct 7th 2010 9:27am by Janeash
Quote:
The PC release of course came some months after XI first saw the light of day, by the time the PC version was released many of the early rough edges had been smoothed over.
Well, in the US the PC version was the first out - the bigger factor, I'd say, was the oft-scorned delay between the Japanese release, and the release here (though sure, over there they had PS2 -> PC for release order). Thing is, if you look at the old patch notes, FFXI had quite a lot of changes/additions in that early period - what we got was a better game for the delay.
What I don't get is, with FFXI SE had an excuse. It was their first MMO. What it sounds like to me with FFXIV is that they scrapped basically everything from XI, which is phenomenally stupid. 8 years of hard-learned lessons, and they don't even take what works and build off of that. Not that XI is perfect either, but what XIV should have been is scrapping things that they failed to balance right, not a complete redo. But, they didn't. So they released a game that lacks even basic conventions/shortcuts/etc that XI players are used to. Makes no sense, but, neither did releasing XIV when they did...it's just going to doom the game to niche status at best.
First and foremost I'd like to copy-and-paste what I said over in the FFXIV forums on this. Ahem!
Agree with this 100%, if you have something good and dependable build on that. I'm not an amazing fan of WoW but it's easy to see why they make so much money from their games. I hope this leads to more development on FFXI cause honestly the way this is going that will be far more profitable than 14 will ever be. It already has vastly more players, which is kinda funny given 14 was just released.
Heh, I've been saying this for ages, even posted in my blog about it and how they were "destroying a masterpiece" with FFXI instead of properly developing it. If anyone said "But PS2 limitations" to me in the real world I think I would honestly punch them, hard, and possibly knock out several of their teeth, and I'm not even a semi-violent person.
The PS2 was released what, OVER 10 years ago? Hardly anyone even plays on it anymore. Even though people like to think most of the Japanese do and even though Japanese are hardcore console and sony fans, they are even more hardcore min-maxers. I guarantee they would have gotten MUCH more positive support from just dropping the PS2 and PROPERLY continue a ongoing world. PC's can always be upgraded, further and further and further. I'm sorry but, you have to get with the times.
Why give up on such a masterpiece, a work of art, with so many amazing stories and so many more to tell just because you feel you HAVE to continue support for a 10+ year old platform? I know it was MADE originally for the PS2 but who cares? Most of the playerbase is on the PC on FFXI, the biggest part of it, and those who aren't are on the 360. I feel like if you have to drop support for a specific console and tell people they need to buy the next best one or get a PC to continue such an amazing world that has been built for almost a decade (a large chunk of a persons life) it's more than worth it.
I absolutely love Vana Diel, and it breaks my heart what they've done to it and how they've butchered it in so many ways and put it on the back burner for so long now. I wish I could go back in time, to right before WOTG was announced and completely cancel that project, cancel the FFXIV bullcrap, and tell them to drop PS2 support and start really honestly concentrating and developing Vana Diel even further. Boy, what a MMORPG right? Imagine the people you could pull in saying "We've been going for 10 years now, and are only going stronger by the day, upgrading the game, adding new areas, better graphics and more". That's one of the main draws to WoW and why it captures so many people. Word of mouth. It's been going for so long, for so strong, that when people decide to jump into the MMORPG genre they feel WoW is a good bet. Well guess what? So could FFXI have been.
All FFXI needed was some proper love, attention and some developers who's heads were not quite so far up their asses and I think while it may not be "WoW" it could have been the next best thing, MMORPG everyone went to if they didn't want to go to WoW. Square Enix had one hell of a niche they could have pocketed off of but they let it go to waste. All these reskinned zones in FFXI, the level cap bullcrap, the magian trial bullcrap is all just ploys to keep people chasing after the carrot in front of them instead of giving them an actual field full of carrots. Maximum profit, keep your players playing, minimum effort and costs.
Square Enix had something truly magical with FFXI, something that deserved better development than it got, something incredible that just needed a few tweaks here and there and some decent content now and then and y'know what? They would have had something that even WoW wouldn't have had. Too bad they don't realize this. At least the cult following of people who swear by FFXI and love it with all their hearts do.
Edited, Oct 7th 2010 6:35am by EndlessJourney
EndlessJourney wrote:
preludes wrote:
Quote:
They should have just done a graphics update and UI tweak to FFXI and launched it with a new expansion on PC Xbox 360 and PS3 as with a good advertising campain.
Blizzard understands this. That is why they are releasing Cataclysm and not "World of Warcraft II".
Blizzard understands this. That is why they are releasing Cataclysm and not "World of Warcraft II".
Agree with this 100%, if you have something good and dependable build on that. I'm not an amazing fan of WoW but it's easy to see why they make so much money from their games. I hope this leads to more development on FFXI cause honestly the way this is going that will be far more profitable than 14 will ever be. It already has vastly more players, which is kinda funny given 14 was just released.
Heh, I've been saying this for ages, even posted in my blog about it and how they were "destroying a masterpiece" with FFXI instead of properly developing it. If anyone said "But PS2 limitations" to me in the real world I think I would honestly punch them, hard, and possibly knock out several of their teeth, and I'm not even a semi-violent person.
The PS2 was released what, OVER 10 years ago? Hardly anyone even plays on it anymore. Even though people like to think most of the Japanese do and even though Japanese are hardcore console and sony fans, they are even more hardcore min-maxers. I guarantee they would have gotten MUCH more positive support from just dropping the PS2 and PROPERLY continue a ongoing world. PC's can always be upgraded, further and further and further. I'm sorry but, you have to get with the times.
Why give up on such a masterpiece, a work of art, with so many amazing stories and so many more to tell just because you feel you HAVE to continue support for a 10+ year old platform? I know it was MADE originally for the PS2 but who cares? Most of the playerbase is on the PC on FFXI, the biggest part of it, and those who aren't are on the 360. I feel like if you have to drop support for a specific console and tell people they need to buy the next best one or get a PC to continue such an amazing world that has been built for almost a decade (a large chunk of a persons life) it's more than worth it.
I absolutely love Vana Diel, and it breaks my heart what they've done to it and how they've butchered it in so many ways and put it on the back burner for so long now. I wish I could go back in time, to right before WOTG was announced and completely cancel that project, cancel the FFXIV bullcrap, and tell them to drop PS2 support and start really honestly concentrating and developing Vana Diel even further. Boy, what a MMORPG right? Imagine the people you could pull in saying "We've been going for 10 years now, and are only going stronger by the day, upgrading the game, adding new areas, better graphics and more". That's one of the main draws to WoW and why it captures so many people. Word of mouth. It's been going for so long, for so strong, that when people decide to jump into the MMORPG genre they feel WoW is a good bet. Well guess what? So could FFXI have been.
All FFXI needed was some proper love, attention and some developers who's heads were not quite so far up their asses and I think while it may not be "WoW" it could have been the next best thing, MMORPG everyone went to if they didn't want to go to WoW. Square Enix had one hell of a niche they could have pocketed off of but they let it go to waste. All these reskinned zones in FFXI, the level cap bullcrap, the magian trial bullcrap is all just ploys to keep people chasing after the carrot in front of them instead of giving them an actual field full of carrots. Maximum profit, keep your players playing, minimum effort and costs.
Square Enix had something truly magical with FFXI, something that deserved better development than it got, something incredible that just needed a few tweaks here and there and some decent content now and then and y'know what? They would have had something that even WoW wouldn't have had. Too bad they don't realize this. At least the cult following of people who swear by FFXI and love it with all their hearts do.
Edited, Oct 7th 2010 6:35am by EndlessJourney
I always said FFXI wouldnt die. Some LS events have suffered but that is not just because of FF14 that is also because of AF3/Abyss dedication.
I for one am thinking of quitting FFXI but will probably keep my account for 4-6 months before I cancel it. FF14 has got problems but who knows where it will be in 6 months. FFXI had serious problems back in the day but then SE released all sorts of things to improve it.
But either way I will keep both accounts running till I see fit never to play it again. At least till Gran tourismo out because I really need a new game to keep me occupied and not just a game with 10 hrs game play..
I for one am thinking of quitting FFXI but will probably keep my account for 4-6 months before I cancel it. FF14 has got problems but who knows where it will be in 6 months. FFXI had serious problems back in the day but then SE released all sorts of things to improve it.
But either way I will keep both accounts running till I see fit never to play it again. At least till Gran tourismo out because I really need a new game to keep me occupied and not just a game with 10 hrs game play..
I believe the major downfall of FFXIV is SE's choice to continue developing FFXI. I'm glad they did though.
About 8-12 months ago, I was ready to leave FFXI and start FFXIV. The content and support in FFXI was lacking, everything seemed stagnate. If FFXIV had been ready to go back then, I would not be here. A lot of my friends felt the same way. Instead of slowly letting FFXI die, they decided to heap loads of new content on us. Now, I have so much to do, I can't help but stay FFXI.
I do understand that FFXIV has many problems and that's partly because it was rushed, but as others have said: FFXI was not that great at the start. I think if they had a larger migration of the FFXI population to FFXIV, they could have easily fixed things up before long.
About 8-12 months ago, I was ready to leave FFXI and start FFXIV. The content and support in FFXI was lacking, everything seemed stagnate. If FFXIV had been ready to go back then, I would not be here. A lot of my friends felt the same way. Instead of slowly letting FFXI die, they decided to heap loads of new content on us. Now, I have so much to do, I can't help but stay FFXI.
I do understand that FFXIV has many problems and that's partly because it was rushed, but as others have said: FFXI was not that great at the start. I think if they had a larger migration of the FFXI population to FFXIV, they could have easily fixed things up before long.
Hear, hear, EndlessJourney. I totally agree. I haven't been playing FFXI for long (little over 2 years) but I absolutely adore it. Can't imagine playing something else right now.
One thing I have heard from players who have been playing FFXI since launch or such is that they are getting bored with it because they've finished the storylines and gotten most of their jobs to 75+... but with abyssea now and the little addons I think SE could easily keep peoples interests. Especially with the cap being raised.
About the graphics, I think if they updated it (PS2 be damned!!) and added a neat character creation like with 14 it could easily go on for many more years.
The video review was funny. He said some things about 14 that are true with 11 (like the quests and storylines, you needing to look things up but i love FFXIpedia <3 I use it even when I don't have to).
One thing I have heard from players who have been playing FFXI since launch or such is that they are getting bored with it because they've finished the storylines and gotten most of their jobs to 75+... but with abyssea now and the little addons I think SE could easily keep peoples interests. Especially with the cap being raised.
About the graphics, I think if they updated it (PS2 be damned!!) and added a neat character creation like with 14 it could easily go on for many more years.
The video review was funny. He said some things about 14 that are true with 11 (like the quests and storylines, you needing to look things up but i love FFXIpedia <3 I use it even when I don't have to).
Quote:
Why give up on such a masterpiece, a work of art, with so many amazing stories and so many more to tell just because you feel you HAVE to continue support for a 10+ year old platform? I know it was MADE originally for the PS2 but who cares?
How about the people who still play on PS2?
Keep your trash posts back on the trash forum, kthx
Quote:
How about the people who still play on PS2?
Freeze the PS2 version development, migrate its players to 3-4 servers, dub it "FFXI Classic", and charge $4.99 a month. Can only last so long anyway, before the machines capable of playing it break down.
Meanwhile, stop worrying about supporting the PS2 version on the main game, redo the engine, increase storage, up client bandwidth, and whatever else they haven't done so that they can continue to support a platform that you haven't actually been able to buy in years.
Ugh, these posts...
I don't know which is more annoying, the people blindly defending the game despite it's flaws, or the people running around saying it's a piece of unredeemable garbage.
Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
Janeash wrote:
I've been saying for a while now that it will take ages to get FFXIV to get enough content to keep people interested.
Even FFXI sucked when it first come out and it's a hundred times better then what it was back then.
There are a few other things that keep people playing FFXI too.
(A lot of people who are people may be holding back till the PS3 release before they can play FFXIV since their currant pc has issues with it.)
So for the time being it seems that FFXI isn't the sinking ship that some people thought it was.
Edited, Oct 7th 2010 7:02am by Janeash
Even FFXI sucked when it first come out and it's a hundred times better then what it was back then.
There are a few other things that keep people playing FFXI too.
(A lot of people who are people may be holding back till the PS3 release before they can play FFXIV since their currant pc has issues with it.)
So for the time being it seems that FFXI isn't the sinking ship that some people thought it was.
Edited, Oct 7th 2010 7:02am by Janeash
If you actually look back at some of the reviews that XI was given, it scored pretty high overall.
Gamespot, who gave XIV a meager 4.0 out of 10 gave the PC version of XI a 8.2 when it was first released.
Metacritic gave XI a 7.7 out of 10, whereas they gave XIV a 4.9
So you can't really say that XI came out with lackluster scores overall, cause in general, looking through all the online gaming sites and rummaging through some old reviews, FFXI scored fairly strong, and so far XIV isn't coming up with the same numbers.
Others have mentioned, but you have to remember that the NA release here was a long time after the game first came out, and a PC release in general was a while after the game started as well. On top of that, the climate has changed these days, MMOs are looked at a bit differently than when FFXI was launched. That IS a big factor. There's a certain amount of expectation nowadays, especially coming from the fact that it's a very, very HYPED SE mmo that's a follow up to a moderately successful game in many ways. These are NOT the same launch conditions.
Still, FF14 does have some pretty gnarly issues at the moment. But the great thing about online games like this, the very nature of this kind of game... they're built to change. They're MADE to evolve. As long as you set a foundation, there's a hell of a lot you can do with it to make the game better.
Should SE have waited longer to launch FF14? Oh, without a doubt. They got way over anxious and released something that clearly wasn't ready to be released. It's a rush job, and it shows. Does that mean it's total garbage and always will be? Depends on who you ask, I guess, but common sense would say probably not.
There's a core game there. Once it's fixed and smoothed out and they start filling in the world in the same way we have enjoyed with FFXI, I think they could really have something. The problem is that will take time. It hasn't even been out long enough to see one major update yet... let alone 8 years worth of content additions and refinements like we have now.
You can definitely see why SE asked review sites to hold off a month or so for them to get their stuff together (not sure why gamespot didn't want to). FF14 is pretty rough around the edges. But it has some potential. To dismiss it now and say that there's no way SE could ever make it enjoyable seems pretty shortsighted. FFXI had some really crazy issues at launch as well, things most of us would consider a deal breaker and probably wouldn't have enjoyed much at all.
FF14 isn't great in it's current form, but after seeing what the group can do with an MMO when they want to, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and wait a while to make a final decision.
Few people would argue that FFXI was problem free at release. But it's just not reasonable to compare a game now to a game released 8 years ago. The games market has matured considerably in that time, and the level of sales and the expectation of quality is leaps and bounds ahead.
If you released a bad game 8 years and you would have suffered for it eventually. In the case of MMOs you could tweak what was borked and a little damage prevention would go a long way, because you had time to react.
If you release a bad game now you suffer for it instantly. The internet is the great social machine of the age. It's ruthless, and damage control is that much harder because of it.
Two weeks in and game review sites and online stores are wracking up the bad reviews and scores against XIV fast enough that if SE fixed all the major gripes tonight it will still take months for those bad scores to be fully consumed by good ones. And those scores matter to new potential customers.
The simple fact is that they released the game too early. Yes, you expect some things to be outstanding at launch, you expect bugs and glitches that have not been encountered before, and you will have some content that is not yet live. That's a given in an MMO. But with XIV this appears to have been taken to an extreme. Issues identified in beta have not yet been addressed, and in many cases not even acknowledged. It doesn't matter that some people are loving it - an awful lot are not and being really vocal about the fact.
When XI came out it had flaws and glitches aplenty, but at it's core it still worked. People enjoyed playing it and the immersive feel to it was there from the start. As long as the core game functions and is fun, an MMO will be fogiven for its faults at release by the majority of players. Over on the XIV forums more and more people seem to be feeling that the bad outweighs the good. That's a real shame.
If I were a developer on the XIV team right now I'd be gnashing my teeth in frustration. The game wasn't ready, but someone high up decided they wanted it out ASAP. Now the whole game is suffering because of it.
Conversely, if I was on the XI dev team right now I'd be feeling pretty good about the overal reception of the cap increases and Abyssea.
If you released a bad game 8 years and you would have suffered for it eventually. In the case of MMOs you could tweak what was borked and a little damage prevention would go a long way, because you had time to react.
If you release a bad game now you suffer for it instantly. The internet is the great social machine of the age. It's ruthless, and damage control is that much harder because of it.
Two weeks in and game review sites and online stores are wracking up the bad reviews and scores against XIV fast enough that if SE fixed all the major gripes tonight it will still take months for those bad scores to be fully consumed by good ones. And those scores matter to new potential customers.
The simple fact is that they released the game too early. Yes, you expect some things to be outstanding at launch, you expect bugs and glitches that have not been encountered before, and you will have some content that is not yet live. That's a given in an MMO. But with XIV this appears to have been taken to an extreme. Issues identified in beta have not yet been addressed, and in many cases not even acknowledged. It doesn't matter that some people are loving it - an awful lot are not and being really vocal about the fact.
When XI came out it had flaws and glitches aplenty, but at it's core it still worked. People enjoyed playing it and the immersive feel to it was there from the start. As long as the core game functions and is fun, an MMO will be fogiven for its faults at release by the majority of players. Over on the XIV forums more and more people seem to be feeling that the bad outweighs the good. That's a real shame.
If I were a developer on the XIV team right now I'd be gnashing my teeth in frustration. The game wasn't ready, but someone high up decided they wanted it out ASAP. Now the whole game is suffering because of it.
Conversely, if I was on the XI dev team right now I'd be feeling pretty good about the overal reception of the cap increases and Abyssea.
Will read the rest of the thread as i find it interesting, but first
Sir/Madam, you took that metaphor and ran with it and made it yours. Kudos!
Edited, Oct 7th 2010 11:16am by spiritreaverdiablos
Gii wrote:
Seems to me that we're floating along on a hull forged from several years of solid content, and sporting two shiny new masts decked out with Abyssea forged sails, with a third due to be installed in a couple of months time. Even the bilges don't smell too bad.
As ships go that sounds pretty seaworthy to me :)
As ships go that sounds pretty seaworthy to me :)
Sir/Madam, you took that metaphor and ran with it and made it yours. Kudos!
Edited, Oct 7th 2010 11:16am by spiritreaverdiablos
[ffxisig]10000[/ffxisig]
----------------------------------
Quite possibly the DUMBEST thing i've ever read.
----------------------------------
One of my server's brightest minds... wrote:
Not to make too extreme a comparison, but Rog is like Nelson Mandella...
Quite possibly the DUMBEST thing i've ever read.
When FFXI came out, it had a lot more already fixed, and there were still scores of people who decided it wasn't their cup of tea after a few months, avoiding it from then on.
There have been a good number of hyped-then-failed MMOs to come out since then. Some still around, some not. Regardless, there's a huge lesson to be learned from them: if you are releasing an MMO, it had better be very good at launch, because that is your one shot at making it big.
FFXI is a vastly different game now than when it was released. That hasn't gained it the subscribers it could have had if they'd released a more casual-friendly/etc game in those pre-WoW days.
FFXIV may well develop into a great game over time. It'll certainly get better than it is now. However, bad impressions now will stick with the game for the rest of its life. It wasn't ready for release, and now it'll suffer for being pushed out the door prematurely - just like nearly every other MMO that's had that happen. FFXIV probably has it even worse, since you likely have a lot of the developers scrambling to try and make the PS3 version actually work versus addressing issues with the game that's actually in the hands of players.
'course, the sheer fact that FFXIV for PS3 hasn't been cancelled yet may be what keeps it afloat. The PC MMO landscape is competitive, whereas competition on consoles is virtually nonexistent. Perhaps that's more what SE is banking on.
There have been a good number of hyped-then-failed MMOs to come out since then. Some still around, some not. Regardless, there's a huge lesson to be learned from them: if you are releasing an MMO, it had better be very good at launch, because that is your one shot at making it big.
FFXI is a vastly different game now than when it was released. That hasn't gained it the subscribers it could have had if they'd released a more casual-friendly/etc game in those pre-WoW days.
FFXIV may well develop into a great game over time. It'll certainly get better than it is now. However, bad impressions now will stick with the game for the rest of its life. It wasn't ready for release, and now it'll suffer for being pushed out the door prematurely - just like nearly every other MMO that's had that happen. FFXIV probably has it even worse, since you likely have a lot of the developers scrambling to try and make the PS3 version actually work versus addressing issues with the game that's actually in the hands of players.
'course, the sheer fact that FFXIV for PS3 hasn't been cancelled yet may be what keeps it afloat. The PC MMO landscape is competitive, whereas competition on consoles is virtually nonexistent. Perhaps that's more what SE is banking on.
Quote:
I think their score on XIV is perfectly justified, it has several serious 'issues' in terms of its' mechanics, which are seriously worse than XI's equivalents: it's hard to understand how a company could produce something inferior to a game that was designed 10 years and a generation or more of hardware ago.
Hard to understand?
FFX - Perfect summoner system.
FFXI - Complete failure.
SE are simply obsessed with changing things, especially when they already found the perfect design.
Mellowy wrote:
Quote:
I think their score on XIV is perfectly justified, it has several serious 'issues' in terms of its' mechanics, which are seriously worse than XI's equivalents: it's hard to understand how a company could produce something inferior to a game that was designed 10 years and a generation or more of hardware ago.
Hard to understand?
FFX - Perfect summoner system.
FFXI - Complete failure.
SE are simply obsessed with changing things, especially when they already found the perfect design.
Except that it's not a failure by any means. They had to intentionally "weaken" Summoners for XI in comparison to earlier games because in all previous Final Fantasies that had Summoners, they were easily one of the most powerful members of the group, if not the most powerful. Summons often possessed some of the strongest attacks in the game (Bahamut and Alexander from most all the FF games they appeared in, Knights of the Round from VII, Eden from VIII, Anima from X, Zeromus from XII, and so on) and in later incarnations could essentially solo groups of enemies that an entire party would have trouble with (FFX, XII, and XIII). They had to tweak it to make Summoners weaker to even them out with other jobs.
What you may consider a complete failure I consider mildly inconvenient at best. Sure it's not the best it could be, but it works fine as far as I'm concerned.
Lady Jinte wrote:
Vlorsutes' Negotiation Skill rises 0.2 points
Vlorsutes' Observant Parent Skill rises 0.3 points
Vlorsutes' Argument Diffusing Skill rises 0.1 points
I have really been enjoying FFXIV so far. Played XI for 7 years and just needed something new. There are quite a few things that XIV could fix, but I am happy to wait for them seeing as how the game has been out a whopping 2 weeks and only one week for the standard edition.
A lot of the problems people are complaining about doesn't exist for me maybe because I made sure my computer was up to snuff. There are other problems with the game that SE says they are working on.
SE has always said they would support XI as long as people played and enjoyed it. I don't know why folks thought it would end when XIV came out. But if bashing a two week old MMO makes you feel relieved at your MMO of choice... go for it.
A lot of the problems people are complaining about doesn't exist for me maybe because I made sure my computer was up to snuff. There are other problems with the game that SE says they are working on.
SE has always said they would support XI as long as people played and enjoyed it. I don't know why folks thought it would end when XIV came out. But if bashing a two week old MMO makes you feel relieved at your MMO of choice... go for it.
I like both.
Reason 1: FFXIV is a way to enjoy new content on weeknights I don't feel like doing 5 year old idiot "get me an outdated piece of garbage because it's shiny so it must be good even though it's level 75" content that seems to be prevalent in so many FFXI players mentalities.
Reason 2: FFXI is a way to enjoy new content with the small %of players that aren't part of Reason 1, that do want to continue character development in FFXI.
Reason 1: FFXIV is a way to enjoy new content on weeknights I don't feel like doing 5 year old idiot "get me an outdated piece of garbage because it's shiny so it must be good even though it's level 75" content that seems to be prevalent in so many FFXI players mentalities.
Reason 2: FFXI is a way to enjoy new content with the small %of players that aren't part of Reason 1, that do want to continue character development in FFXI.
Carbuncle
Quote:
...in many cases not even acknowledged...
And there you go. The powers that be at SE just don't get it, and they never will. They can dress up and dance around at game shows all they want, but at it's heart SE is still playing the software developer card when they should be doing customer service. I mean, look at FFXIII: you donn't even get to play the fun part of the game until after you play through the entire game and defeat the final boss. That's what SE does, and will always do. My concern is for how long it's going to take Mustache Pete to turn his attention back towards XI.
Dooom wrote:
BG elitists <3 haste.
Allatards/uber casuals hate elitists.
Allatards/uber casuals hate haste, as valuing it would acknowledge that elitists are right
Allatards/uber casuals hate elitists.
Allatards/uber casuals hate haste, as valuing it would acknowledge that elitists are right
kerberoz wrote:
People don't hate emo kids because they're "misunderstood." People hate emo kids because they're useless.
Realix wrote:
PUP is an average to above average DD... when not in a zerg situation... or on particularly hard targets... and when properly configured... on windsday... with a RDM...
Mellowy, my predator claws do anywhere from 2k to 3.5k damage in Abyssea and my summoner is incredibly gimp. I'd say they did summoner right at this stage of the game.
Recent Visitors: 726
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (726)
- Forums
- Final Fantasy XI
- General Discussion
- So about that apocalypse..
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC