Dual WieldFollow

Simple question, and mods can feel free to move it. I don't see much traffic in job-specific forums anymore.

Does dual wield have a cap or diminishing returns? Haven't played in three years and don't have enough Dual wield to test it over 50% yet. Wiki or BGwiki mentions nothing about there being or not being a cap.

Also, it stacks additively, correct?

I played around a lot with haste numbers & DW numbers years ago and as I've got older I've not practiced math in anyway, but, The total cap on Haste is 80%, DW is applied seperately (meaning it doesn't stack). There is I believe a total delay reduction cap much like their is straight cap of 80% haste on haste which is reached fairly easily with equipment (25%) Hasso OR Haste Samba (10%) leaving the final 45% to come from some combination of Haste, Haste II, Bards Marches and any other magical haste haste.

You can receive 80% Haste on NIN and still then receive the delay reduction Dual Wield gives. A Nin could fairly easily attain 54% Dual Wield from Job Traits(35%)+Reforged AF body(7%)+Reforged AF2 legs(7%)+the good ol Suppa(5%). Once you start getting delay reduction above 50% the benefits really start to show, its also worth noting that on Ninja, to attack the fastest you can equip use the delay reduction you can stack the most of for DoT Damage, so with some basic equipment thats 54% and can be reached on your own. To get above 50% haste you need haste from other sources.

Its also worth noting that there is an overall cap on delay reduction, that before was fairly hard to hit, i'm not so sure now, and that includes the delay reduction from Haste + delay reduction from Dual wield + the delay reduction Blitzer's roll (that to my knowledge does not stack with dual wield).

Basically, we don't have the guys working all the best equip sets out anymore, comparing piece A to piece B or C for TP-ing in, yes there are damage calculators, but I wouldn't put my trust in those unless they have been updated with ilevel additions.

Firstly, it would be good to know if there is a cap on Dual Wield, because if it is something low like 50% that would be a bit of a shame. Secondly we need to know the total possible delay reduction attainable because it might be able to be worked out that NIN could hit that fairly easy with the gear available to them /DNC with a trusts 15% haste spell, or Ulmia etc. The thing is, with the speeds NIN can potentially reach it could be easily on par with MNK for DPS, but that depends on what the total delay reduction is, and any caps in place on Dual Wield.

I remember the ls chatting about it saying the lowest delay a weapon can swing at is 75- That doesn't sound to bad because when Dual Wielding all delay reduction is applied to the total delay of the weapons, is 75 delay is the fastest we can reach then would that mean a nin could potentialy swing with 2 37.5 delay weapons?

Need a math guy who knows exactly what he is talking about to help this thread out.

Victory March and Advancing March stack together. You can get instruments that +1 march all the way up to +4 (99 Ghorn), as well as gear that does +1, for a max total of +5 to March.

Two +5 Marches, plus magic Haste I from /WHM, will put you at absolute maximum magic haste cap.

Bad choice.

The less DW you use to reach your delay cap the better off your overall damage is going to be.

Incorrect.

DW exists because the majority of job abilities that affect job haste are usually 2handers (or were before Haste Samba). It's nothing more than alternative to Haste that's easier to get (but the TP penalty makes it "worse").



It *ISN'T* separate: they're both part of the same overall reduction -- hard cap of 80%. Yes, DW reduces the amount of TP per swing but unlike Haste there's no gear cap on it.

This isn't all that complicated, and even just glancing at either the FFXIwiki or BGwiki would have shown this within 30 seconds.

Haste x DW = overall reduction, which cannot exceed 80% reduction.


Edited, Aug 28th 2014 9:33pm by Viertel

Ok, I updated myself with how total delay reduction works,

I can see why NIN's feel like they get it rough - its well known that reaching 80% haste is nothing special nowadays and doesn't need SV Marches like back in the day to reach with correct support, and in some cases sj.

Just wearing Iga Zukin+2 along with Suppa, Moch. Hakama +1, Hachiya Chainmail +1 a Nin is hitting 61% Delay reduction leaving haste to take care of the final part of the delay.

So total delay reduction is down to 0.39 (with the above equipment), the number needed is 0.2, Nin/Dnc with haste spell very nearly completes that job;

(.39) * (1024 - 256 - 150 - 50) * 1024 = 0.21(6) depending how it is round, but the above equipment as a Nin/Dnc with Haste spell puts a Nin very close to cap (or 79% Delay reduction).

It then becomes upto the Nin which pieces to keep on in situations where more haste is readily available, losing the suppa and Zukin+2 would be the 2 pieces that can go if your receiving Haste spell & Marches or Haste spell/March/Samba.

Either way, Nin is the most versatile job in reaching the delay reduction cap and in most cases now the suppa can be looked at as obsolete if your a very well geared Nin except during situations where the only outside haste you will be getting is 15% & DNC or 15% & /DNC Haste Samba obviously keeping your gear haste capped.

are we sure this logic is still valid given the changes they made with tp floor/gain etc? i can get to 59 dw and 26 worn as nin, trust haste and /dnc. i use thurandaut +1 head until empy+2 is updated. as im solo in trustga then thats fine for me (i dont have relic/af +1s)