Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Dungeon finder toolFollow

#1 Feb 26 2013 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
18 posts
Hello guys.
Does someone know more detail informations about dungeon finder tool that comes with A Realm Reborn?

Personally, I am not that happy about ''dungoen finder tool'' to be honest, I would rather prefer ''looking for group tool'' that just finds you the members but nothing else .. And the fact it groups you up with players from different servers is even worse ... even more random players who just leaves the group if it wipe once or dont even say hello.

So details I am looking for are ...
1. Will dungeon finder tool also port you inside the dungeon like wow tool does? Please no.
This just makes player camp cities, stop beeing lazy and move your asses to the dungeon.


2. Will they find you also the raid parties for 24 man raids? Please no.
Here I think that raids should never be pugable, it would just dramaticaly increase more ''This is too hard'' complains ...''We are not able to beat this so please nerf it so even us can do it.'' ''I should not be forced to have a guild to do the raids'' bla bla bla..


3. Will they give you additional reward for using this tool? Please no.
It will find a freaking party for you without any effort, isnt that enought?!


What are your thoughts?


Edited, Feb 26th 2013 3:29pm by Waiwan
#2 Feb 26 2013 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
***
1,277 posts
I don't know the answers to your questions, but I'll take a guess.

1. Most likely.
2. Probably. We haven't been shown anything that resembles a challenge yet, so it may not be quite the qq fest that you're anticipating.
3. Maybe a bit of gold gil or a token you can use for something.

I also think it would be better to just form your group and leave the travel up to the player.

Depending on how successful the game is, I would be inclined to agree on keeping it server exclusive. This increases wait times though, and unfortunately gamers are very short on patience these days (I don't have time to lfg, games are supposed to be fun, this isn't fun, blahblahblah).

My gut tells me they will use the same system as WoW though. I still think that the main players who make up the Final Fantasy fan base are a different kind of people however. That alone should keep the community alive, hopefully.

Edited, Feb 26th 2013 3:39pm by Transmigration
____________________________
Eithne Alasdair - Ultros
My IG: archaicmachinery - Friend me!
#3 Feb 26 2013 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
18 posts
I hope you are right about Final Fantasy community :) Lately I really sick of western minded mmorpgs catered to casual friendly NA/EU players. Sadly ''we'' have ''I want everything for minimal effort.'' mentality...

Even when I grew up on western mmorpgs, I despite them now after those 10 years.

Edited, Feb 26th 2013 3:47pm by Waiwan
#4 Feb 26 2013 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,682 posts
Waiwan wrote:
Hello guys.
Does someone know more detail informations about dungeon finder tool that comes with A Realm Reborn?

Personally, I am not that happy about ''dungoen finder tool'' to be honest, I would rather prefer ''looking for group tool'' that just finds you the members but nothing else .. And the fact it groups you up with players from different servers is even worse ... even more random players who just leaves the group if it wipe once or dont even say hello.

So details I am looking for are ...
1. Will dungeon finder tool also port you inside the dungeon like wow tool does? Please no.
This just makes player camp cities, stop beeing lazy and move your asses to the dungeon.


2. Will they find you also the raid parties for 24 man raids? Please no.
Here I think that raids should never be pugable, it would just dramaticaly increase more ''This is too hard'' complains ...''We are not able to beat this so please nerf it so even us can do it.'' ''I should not be forced to have a guild to do the raids'' bla bla bla..


3. Will they give you additional reward for using this tool? Please no.
It will find a freaking party for you without any effort, isnt that enought?!


What are your thoughts?


Edited, Feb 26th 2013 3:29pm by Waiwan


1: On the other hand it also helps move the group along. For instance, let's say I'm out gathering or soloing or whatever and my LFG queue pops for a dungeon half a world away from me. Why should the people who happened to be closer have to wait for me to trek over hill and dale just to get to the dungeon that was randomly selected?

2: "Raids should never be puggable." Why? Why shouldn't I be able to intelligently put together a group of people that want to do content, and then go do that content? Moving over to WoW for a second here for some raiding examples.. I can reasonably pug a normal-difficulty raid of the current tier. I cannot reasonably pug a heroic raid of the current tier. This all boils down to difficulty of content. If the content requires so much coordination and strategy that I can't reasonably explain it in about 5 minutes per boss, it's probably too complex to pug. On the other hand, then who are they making raid content for? You can't limit endgame activities to 1% of your playerbase. That's just bad distribution of development time. In a lot of ways, WoW got around this with their LFR system. By creating a difficulty of raiding that can be accomplished by 25 random strangers that never have to speak to each other, they can devote the development time needed to creating endgame content for the top 1% as well.

3: This is wholly dependent on how the game is structured and its reward system.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#5 Feb 26 2013 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
***
3,530 posts
I'm not happy about it, either, and I think it will overall contribute to a sense of "single-player MMORPG syndrome" that has been so popular a design as of late. Really, if you're just going to be teleported around an instanced world with NPC minions and auto-created parties, why is there a monthly fee for the game? It's barely more than a slow-paced offline game with a lobby server, ala Diablo III. :\

Others will be happy with it, though, and I understand that. I prefer a greater community over a greater convenience, but functionalists would of course disagree. Smiley: nod
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#6 Feb 26 2013 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
Guru
***
1,298 posts
Last I played FFXI, you'd shout or listen for shouts in Port Jeuno for an activity that interested you. Then once you formed your group, you'd have the teleport NPC take you immediately to the Abyssea maw, and once inside and buffed up, you'd teleport instantly to the region you wanted to visit.

And yet having all this done automatically (i.e. painlessly and quietly) is somehow worse? If anything being able to do other things while you wait is reason enough to love this approach. The player hub seems less likely, not more so.
#7 Feb 26 2013 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
18 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:


1: On the other hand it also helps move the group along. For instance, let's say I'm out gathering or soloing or whatever and my LFG queue pops for a dungeon half a world away from me. Why should the people who happened to be closer have to wait for me to trek over hill and dale just to get to the dungeon that was randomly selected?

2: "Raids should never be puggable." Why? Why shouldn't I be able to intelligently put together a group of people that want to do content, and then go do that content? Moving over to WoW for a second here for some raiding examples.. I can reasonably pug a normal-difficulty raid of the current tier. I cannot reasonably pug a heroic raid of the current tier. This all boils down to difficulty of content. If the content requires so much coordination and strategy that I can't reasonably explain it in about 5 minutes per boss, it's probably too complex to pug. On the other hand, then who are they making raid content for? You can't limit endgame activities to 1% of your playerbase. That's just bad distribution of development time. In a lot of ways, WoW got around this with their LFR system. By creating a difficulty of raiding that can be accomplished by 25 random strangers that never have to speak to each other, they can devote the development time needed to creating endgame content for the top 1% as well.

3: This is wholly dependent on how the game is structured and its reward system.


Clearly we have different oppinions on these things. Thats natural :) but..

Who said that dungeon was randomly selected? Maybe you picked up this one on purpose?
I think waiting for someone 5-10 minutes arent that big of a problem, is it? If someone is really that unpatient in mmorpg, what these players do when you wipe? When you dont instant clear the dungeon on first try? Many of them just leave the dungeon with words ''@#%^ this group .. noobs'', queue up and join another group just in matter of few minutes. This is what you want ey? If you were forced to go to the dungeon by yourself you would think twice before leaving the group even if it wipe.

I personally think that WoW had the best raids in vanila/TBC ... there was NO heroic raid and if you didnt have good guild you simply didnt get the gear. Sadly the Blizzard catered to everyone allowing every noob gearing up without any effort. Heroic dungeons are there you say for HC groups? AHH I have different coloured gear! YEEEEES thats exactly really big difference, colours... hah

Anyways. As I sad everyone have different oppinions but these things you mentioned are first things that comes to my mind why Me and many many veteran players left the World of Warcraft .


Edited, Feb 26th 2013 3:57pm by Waiwan
#8 Feb 26 2013 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
Anterograde Amnesia
Avatar
*****
12,363 posts
Thing is, nobody is asking you to use it. I fully expect to do a lot of things with my LS rather than solo or find a PUG.
____________________________
"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#9 Feb 26 2013 at 2:59 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
18 posts
Wint wrote:
Thing is, nobody is asking you to use it. I fully expect to do a lot of things with my LS rather than solo or find a PUG.


So theoretically.. If they made raids and ''end game'' really easy for everyone, even for blind horses to beat it. Will you just comment it with: ''Thing is, nobody is asking you to do these raids in full 24 man. Just do them 10 man and you have your challandge''

Thing is ... for someone who want to compete, he has no other option to use all these tools even if he hates them.

I have read one interesting comment few days ago somewhere.. Someone was asking what do you hate the most about PvP, PvE? And someone replyed ''When a system allows the same rewards for someone who doesn't play as much as someone who puts in a lot of effort.''

Edited, Feb 26th 2013 4:03pm by Waiwan
#10 Feb 26 2013 at 3:02 PM Rating: Excellent
Anterograde Amnesia
Avatar
*****
12,363 posts
Waiwan wrote:
Wint wrote:
Thing is, nobody is asking you to use it. I fully expect to do a lot of things with my LS rather than solo or find a PUG.


So theoretically.. If they made raids and ''end game'' really easy for everyone, even for blind horses to beat it. Will you just comment it with: ''Thing is, nobody is asking you to do these raids in full 24 man. Just do them 10 man and you have your challandge''

Thing is ... for someone who want to compete, he has no other option to use all these tools even if he hates them.

Edited, Feb 26th 2013 4:01pm by Waiwan


I don't see them becoming that easy, nor do I see myself doing them if our LS can't tackle them on our own. Yoshi knows what hardcore gamers want, he'll deliver. What do you think the Crystal Tower will be for?
____________________________
"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#11 Feb 26 2013 at 3:05 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
**
562 posts
In my experience of MMORPGs both old and new alike, readily available instant-teleport features and abilities tend to make the world smaller and ruin the immersion of being part of a larger environment.

That being said SE would get simply raked over the coals if they didn't include such in a 2013 modern MMORPG release, and it is rather annoying to be waiting on that last teammate who's trudging through the swamps three zones away to complete the group. Then all of a sudden you see "lol, this bear just tried to gank me. I'm going to kill it" in party chat, and what was suppose to be a five minute wait has now been going on for 30 minutes.

It's an issue with modern MMORPG design I'm quite torn on. I'll be happy to see how it works in FFXIV ARR.


Edited, Feb 26th 2013 4:06pm by Whales
____________________________
FFXIV - Fellows - Fabul
FFXI - Fellows - Gilgamesh


#12 Feb 26 2013 at 3:06 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
Avatar
18 posts
Wint wrote:


I don't see them becoming that easy, nor do I see myself doing them if our LS can't tackle them on our own. Yoshi knows what hardcore gamers want, he'll deliver. What do you think the Crystal Tower will be for?


Maybe I became just too spectical about mmorpgs and their promises. As I said I played almost every (atleast western) mmorpg released for past 10 years and I always became really sad when they bumped out the difficulty and made everything so easy and simple just because of some vocal all the time complaining minority that complains only for sake of complaining.

So I just hope you are right and we just have to see :)

Edited, Feb 26th 2013 4:06pm by Waiwan
#13 Feb 26 2013 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,682 posts
Quote:
Who said that dungeon was randomly selected? Maybe you picked up this one on purpose?


Fair enough, the dungeon doesn't HAVE to be randomly selected, but then what you'll end up with is people feeling like they have to sit there at the entrance to the dungeon they want to do until they get a party for it. That's not exactly an improvement over sitting around in town.

Quote:
Also I think waiting someone 5-10 minutes arent that big of a problem.


I was thinking in old FFXI terms where you'd sometimes take half an hour to travel between point A and point B. Yeah, that's too long.

Quote:
If it is, what these players do when you wipe? When you dont instant clear the dungeon on first try? Many of them just leave the dungeon with words ''@#%^ this group'', queue up and join another group just in matter of few minutes. This is what you want ey?


Honestly, I don't see this in the FF-MMO community. FFXI had one of the best communities I've ever seen in any game (and I've played quite a few). I do think that in the interest of serving that sense of community, any LFG system should be same-server only. While I'm not completely convinced that cross-server LFG destroys communities the way some people claim.. I am convinced that it doesn't do anything to help.

Quote:
I personally think that WoW had the best raids in vanila/TBC


What a shocker

Quote:
Sadly the Blizzard catered to everyone allowing every noob gearing up without any effort.


You can't cater an entire endgame to 1% of your playerbase as I tried to explain above. You need those casual players to be doing your content, or it isn't worth developing. Let me give you an example.. it takes months to plan out and design a new raid instance. It takes even more weeks and months to test and tune that instance so that it's ready to go live. Blizzard plans these things nearly an expansion in advance (1.5 to 2 years ahead). How long do you think that model is sustainable when only a tiny handful of your players will ever see that content? It isn't. At all. Opening up raiding to the casual audience is the best thing that could have happened for endgame raiding in WoW precisely because it justifies the development time spent on it. The same thing would happen here if raiding were closed to all but the most hardcore of hardcore players. It would quickly become unjustifiable as an expense of development time.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#14 Feb 26 2013 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Wint wrote:
What do you think the Crystal Tower will be for?


Raising property values of in game housing with a view of it Smiley: grin
____________________________
Our team is like a flock of woodpeckers in a petrified forest. We just need to keep working and keep an eye open for opportunity.

FFXI
Toofar - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - WHM BLM SMN
Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#15 Feb 26 2013 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
18 posts
Guys I just hope you are right about the Final Fantasy community staying great whatever happens !! Awesome :) Hope my concerns are for nothing !

Edited, Feb 26th 2013 4:09pm by Waiwan
#16 Feb 26 2013 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
3,595 posts
1) It's a content finder, not a dungeon finder. You are worried over nothing. It will find ALL types of groups, plus an in-depth search function.
2) Yes, of course. Also, you can just, you know, join an LS for these. You don't have to use this tool, its to make PUGs easier.
3) Probably not. Who knows, but why would they? Again this is for PUGs, not free companies and ls's.
____________________________


#17 Feb 26 2013 at 3:42 PM Rating: Excellent
I'm not at all concerned about the content finder taking away from linkshells.

Don't forget, this game is also ushering in the grand company/free company social structure. We are being given a nice framework to actually be social, which is something that just about every other MMORPG completely skips over.

I'm surprised Yoshi hasn't mentioned free companies in response to questions about what will make FFXIV unique.
____________________________
Thayos Redblade
Veritas
Sargatanas
#18 Feb 26 2013 at 4:12 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
Avatar
*
131 posts
I loved what they did back in 1.0 when it came to Primals. there was the easy ones and the extremes :P that way they cater to everyone =D
#19 Feb 26 2013 at 4:13 PM Rating: Excellent
Anterograde Amnesia
Avatar
*****
12,363 posts
One note if you didn't see my story: if it's been in a FF, it's going to be a Primal. I think SMN will be a fun job for XIV Smiley: nod
____________________________
"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#20 Feb 26 2013 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,682 posts
Wint wrote:
One note if you didn't see my story: if it's been in a FF, it's going to be a Primal. I think SMN will be a fun job for XIV Smiley: nod


Cid Prime inc?
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#21 Feb 26 2013 at 4:49 PM Rating: Excellent
Anterograde Amnesia
Avatar
*****
12,363 posts
Well I guess I needed to clarify that if it was a summon in a Final Fabtasy.
____________________________
"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#22 Feb 26 2013 at 5:08 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,764 posts
waiwan wrote:
1. Will dungeon finder tool also port you inside the dungeon like wow tool does? Please no.
This just makes player camp cities, stop beeing lazy and move your asses to the dungeon.


2. Will they find you also the raid parties for 24 man raids? Please no.
Here I think that raids should never be pugable, it would just dramaticaly increase more ''This is too hard'' complains ...''We are not able to beat this so please nerf it so even us can do it.'' ''I should not be forced to have a guild to do the raids'' bla bla bla..


3. Will they give you additional reward for using this tool? Please no.
It will find a freaking party for you without any effort, isnt that enought?!


What are your thoughts?

1) Dungeon finder tools port you inside the instance as a matter of convenience. It functions that way in every game I've ever heard of with this feature. Travel in Eorzea is easy enough as it is so I'm not certain why this feature would upset people. It's not like players gathering in hubs is something new either. Orgrimmar, Velika or Port Jeuno... take your pick. This is a common trend in all MMOs, not just the one you don't want XIV to be like.

2) Still too early to say for certain how hard content will be, but given the direction it's already taken toward being more casual-oriented; I can't really see it becoming an issue. If I had a preference it would be same server onry, but it wouldn't bother me if they allowed cross-server, large scale raids.

3) Rewards added to using dungeon finder tools are just incentive to use the system. If you were a casual with only a few hours a week to play XIV, you'd probably see this as a benefit if you were trying to get into some large group content. Using games that already have this feature as an example, the rewards aren't really anything special anyway.


Edited, Feb 26th 2013 6:09pm by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#23 Feb 26 2013 at 6:04 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
728 posts
I personally don't mind this mechanic. It opened up the ability to experience tons of older content that no one did in WoW.

As far as having to use it to be competitive, I used it to become the most geared holy paladin on my server before raids came out in cataclysm SOLO. It felt good to beat out that elitist guild that moved to our server just so they could be top dog and did everything to get their GM the best stuff. I won't lie though, I abused the **** out of the dungeon finder. I would leave if we wiped on trash (people were really, REALLY bad at Cataclysm when it first came out >.>) or the first boss and I would leave if my boss didn't drop the item I wanted. I don't believe I nor as many people would do this in XIV though because the series has a much better mentality and community (at that point I really despised playing the game because of the community). They could also cut down on this by making the last boss drop all notable loot. A token system would work even better in this game than WoW because of how often you might be forced to go to content as a job that you may not want loot for. And I'm sure that you would be able to queue up as groups so premade gorups would still benefit from any bonuses.

(note that I did not get a chance to play 1.0 due to getting my new gaming pc after server shutdown.)
Unless this system was perfectly planned and executed, I don't think it could handle 24 man content, or anything over 4 mans to be honest. In WoW each class had specific rolls and each group needed one tank, one healer, and three people to carry on their backs..err DPS. In FFXI and FFXIV you have one character that can be every job and in XIV you can change that job on the fly with a weapon swap. Roles aren't as clearly defined in our two favorite MMOs and that's what we love about them. Is that Bard a DPS, healer, or support? Do we have to have a support role in every group? Is gladiator/paladin going to be the only "tank" role? If so we will expect insane queue times to be sure. In FFXI certain types of tanks were always better for certain fights than others, and I truly hope that remains the same in 2.0. If you can just queue up as anything you want and get matched with the same, is the content going to be so easy that a full group of white mages can do it? I really hope not. Getting back to 24 man content again, who is to say how many of what job/role you really need to complete it? Certainly I hope not the developers. In my opinion this content should be exclusive to single server groups that are Hyur made. Besides, having 24 people be able to loot on drops will just be a giant cluster#$%^ even with the "need" system they mentioned. I guess some of this might be moot if it just turns out to be some kind of glorified cross-server FFXI search function. Then you would have to deal with fair loot distribution when the majority of a group is on one server.

The fact that they are going to use some type of system like this makes me glad I primarily play tanks and healers. No LFG for two weeks as DRK and getting no invites for me (my poor, poor friend XD).
____________________________
FFXI: DamienSlvrblade Race: Elvaan Nation: San d'Oria Server: Sylph 2002-2007, Phoenix 2012
PUP WHM PLD MNK BLU BST SAM WAR BLM 99 BRD THF NIN DNC SMN RDM 50+

FFXIV: Damien Scott Race: Duskwight Elezen GC: Limsa Lominsa Server: Ultros
DoW GLA50 ACN50 PUG50 MAR 50 Rest30+
DoH/DoL All 40+
#24 Feb 26 2013 at 6:13 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
Avatar
**
676 posts
I'm having a hard time understanding why people aren't liking the idea of a dungeon party tool. I can see how it might allow people to join in and then leave in the middle b/c the party wipes, but chances are if they are like that they should know that the parties formed using the tool won't be as cohesive as those formed using a free company or LS. People already in LS's will probably stick to parties formed within LS's anyways. The tool is meant for those players who are new/returning and don't have a LS to fall back on. It helps alleviate the need to stay in town and shout for parties for hours and hours.
____________________________
#25 Feb 26 2013 at 8:52 PM Rating: Good
**
383 posts
swisa wrote:
I'm having a hard time understanding why people aren't liking the idea of a dungeon party tool. I can see how it might allow people to join in and then leave in the middle b/c the party wipes, but chances are if they are like that they should know that the parties formed using the tool won't be as cohesive as those formed using a free company or LS. People already in LS's will probably stick to parties formed within LS's anyways. The tool is meant for those players who are new/returning and don't have a LS to fall back on. It helps alleviate the need to stay in town and shout for parties for hours and hours.

Because they have some notion that removing types of forced interactions will ruin the community, and therefore the game.

Also, as to the current tier in WoW being PUGable, I'd disagree. At least not to people who are fresh to raiding or otherwise under-geared. However, if 14 decides to use their finder tool for raids rather than 4-man content, I'd expect a pretty high rate of failure unless the encounters are tuned similarly to the way that blizzard tunes the LFR encounters.

Edited, Feb 26th 2013 10:00pm by TurboTom
____________________________
This is my sig; Enjoy.
FFXIV: Tom Carroll - Excalibur
FC: Sitzkireg (www.sitzkrieg.guildwork.com)
#26 Feb 26 2013 at 9:09 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
605 posts
TurboTom wrote:
swisa wrote:
I'm having a hard time understanding why people aren't liking the idea of a dungeon party tool. I can see how it might allow people to join in and then leave in the middle b/c the party wipes, but chances are if they are like that they should know that the parties formed using the tool won't be as cohesive as those formed using a free company or LS. People already in LS's will probably stick to parties formed within LS's anyways. The tool is meant for those players who are new/returning and don't have a LS to fall back on. It helps alleviate the need to stay in town and shout for parties for hours and hours.

Because they have some notion that removing types of forced interactions will ruin the community, and therefore the game.

Also, as to the current tier in WoW being PUGable, I'd disagree. At least not to people who are fresh to raiding or otherwise under-geared. However, if 14 decides to use their finder tool for raids rather than 4-man content, I'd expect a pretty high rate of failure unless the encounters are tuned similarly to the way that blizzard tunes the LFR encounters.

Edited, Feb 26th 2013 10:00pm by TurboTom


You do realize that yes the current tier in WoW, refering to MSV, HOF & ToES is puggable with someone who is new to raiding or even undergeared. Having a voice chat helps in many ways.
____________________________
FFXIV Gilgamesh: Nghthawk Evenfall
FFXIV Ultros: Nytehawk Evenfall


Time is but a window,
Death is but a doorway,
I'll Be Back
#27 Feb 26 2013 at 9:12 PM Rating: Good
**
383 posts
SillyHawk wrote:
You do realize that yes the current tier in WoW, refering to MSV, HOF & ToES is puggable with someone who is new to raiding or even undergeared. Having a voice chat helps in many ways.

If you're carrying one person, maybe. 2-3 PUGs with an otherwise seasoned group isn't as realistic.
____________________________
This is my sig; Enjoy.
FFXIV: Tom Carroll - Excalibur
FC: Sitzkireg (www.sitzkrieg.guildwork.com)
#28 Feb 26 2013 at 9:24 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
**
322 posts
I hope that its not for raid/endgame content. For 4-6 man content this could help those with out and LS. If its for everything then it will all probably get nerfed to be easy mode, because people will do nothing but ***** and complain. As for the teleporting to the dungeon, I can kinda understand it, but part of me would like to see it for that zone only. Otherwise it will be as other have said, people will just hang out in towns looking for thier preffered dungeon.

I just hope that there is some sense of community unlike the last few MMOs I have played.
____________________________
Arucard (Retiered)
75 black mage 75 samurai 75 warrior 75 monk
75 Bard 69 Thief 75 White Mage
Formaly of Unicorn
-----------
FFXIV: Ashara Strangelove
Ultros Server
Whm 50, Blm 50, Smn/Sch 50, Drg 50, Pld 50, Brd 50
50 War, Bot 50, Mnr 50, Fsh 50

FC: Syn
#29 Feb 27 2013 at 12:59 AM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
**
676 posts
huhwhat wrote:
I hope that its not for raid/endgame content. For 4-6 man content this could help those with out and LS. If its for everything then it will all probably get nerfed to be easy mode, because people will do nothing but ***** and complain. As for the teleporting to the dungeon, I can kinda understand it, but part of me would like to see it for that zone only. Otherwise it will be as other have said, people will just hang out in towns looking for thier preffered dungeon.

I just hope that there is some sense of community unlike the last few MMOs I have played.


I haven't heard anything about them limiting the use to only content intended for smaller parties. I'm pretty sure it's for all dungeon content in the game. Yoshi has said that he will not be making things easy right off the bat. He will makes things fairly tough so that we can all enjoy the challenge and then he'll make an easy mode later on after several (6 i think) months.I'd imagine it'll be very similar to how they made the dungeons available to smaller parties later on after it's been available for awhile.
____________________________
#30 Feb 27 2013 at 4:08 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
26 posts
TurboTom wrote:
SillyHawk wrote:
You do realize that yes the current tier in WoW, refering to MSV, HOF & ToES is puggable with someone who is new to raiding or even undergeared. Having a voice chat helps in many ways.

If you're carrying one person, maybe. 2-3 PUGs with an otherwise seasoned group isn't as realistic.


Not really. MSV and Terrace are very easy. You'd only get some hiccups vs Elegon and Sha, maybe Lei Shi (Protectors hit hard). HoF is really the only one I'd be afraid of with 2 or 3 PUG's, but that's only for the last 2 bosses... and maybe Garalon.

Anyway, as for a dungeon finder tool: http://jpgames-forum.de/jpgames-de-foren/news-rund-um-japanische-videospiele/23211-final-fantasy-xiv-our-new-interview-with-naoki-yoshida/

"Also talking about the party system, there’s of course a time, when you need to join a party to complete the Main Story Scenario. So at that time you don’t have to sort of actively go and see players by shouting or calling in the world by yourself. We are implementing as system called Duty Finder, which is like a content finder. The system can automatically find suitable members for your own party – automatically not only from the server you are playing on, but all the different worlds, all the different servers, so it’s going to be very easy to party. And the system also sort of makes sure, that it’s a good balanced party. So you just need to place a request like ‘This is a dungeon I want to try out.’ and then the Duty Finder will automatically do it for you. So you can enjoy a party experience in a very easy way."

I'm not entirely for this cross-world Duty Finder, but we do still have Search Comments (and they're much improved now) for finding people on your own server.
#31 Feb 27 2013 at 8:21 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
562 posts
DevilFruit wrote:
I'm not entirely for this cross-world Duty Finder, but we do still have Search Comments (and they're much improved now) for finding people on your own server.


It really feels like individual servers for online gaming may become one of those things we talk about as "back in my day ... " type elements. Regardless of our opinion on it, more and more games are moving to seamless worlds joined together through background balancing.
____________________________
FFXIV - Fellows - Fabul
FFXI - Fellows - Gilgamesh


#32 Feb 27 2013 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
**
322 posts
Quote:
I haven't heard anything about them limiting the use to only content intended for smaller parties. I'm pretty sure it's for all dungeon content in the game. Yoshi has said that he will not be making things easy right off the bat. He will makes things fairly tough so that we can all enjoy the challenge and then he'll make an easy mode later on after several (6 i think) months.I'd imagine it'll be very similar to how they made the dungeons available to smaller parties later on after it's been available for awhile.


I hope not. I can see it at lower levels being okay till like maybe 30ish. to help those who don't have LSs get along, until they can find one. As for Easy mode later on, I don't wanna see that either, or atleast make the rewards different for the Hard version.
____________________________
Arucard (Retiered)
75 black mage 75 samurai 75 warrior 75 monk
75 Bard 69 Thief 75 White Mage
Formaly of Unicorn
-----------
FFXIV: Ashara Strangelove
Ultros Server
Whm 50, Blm 50, Smn/Sch 50, Drg 50, Pld 50, Brd 50
50 War, Bot 50, Mnr 50, Fsh 50

FC: Syn
#33 Feb 27 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
***
2,120 posts
huhwhat wrote:
Quote:
I haven't heard anything about them limiting the use to only content intended for smaller parties. I'm pretty sure it's for all dungeon content in the game. Yoshi has said that he will not be making things easy right off the bat. He will makes things fairly tough so that we can all enjoy the challenge and then he'll make an easy mode later on after several (6 i think) months.I'd imagine it'll be very similar to how they made the dungeons available to smaller parties later on after it's been available for awhile.


I hope not. I can see it at lower levels being okay till like maybe 30ish. to help those who don't have LSs get along, until they can find one. As for Easy mode later on, I don't wanna see that either, or atleast make the rewards different for the Hard version.

I don't understand why you'd prefer they limit a looking for group/dungeon tool to midway through the game only.
#34 Feb 27 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,566 posts
Waiwan wrote:
So details I am looking for are ...
1. Will dungeon finder tool also port you inside the dungeon like wow tool does? Please no.
This just makes player camp cities, stop beeing lazy and move your asses to the dungeon.


They've said it will port you to the entrance.

But what's the alternative? In XI people camped the cities and /shouted to form parties. There always will be a social hub auto grouping or not.

Waiwan wrote:
2. Will they find you also the raid parties for 24 man raids? Please no.
Here I think that raids should never be pugable, it would just dramaticaly increase more ''This is too hard'' complains ...''We are not able to beat this so please nerf it so even us can do it.'' ''I should not be forced to have a guild to do the raids'' bla bla bla..


Not sure on this one but your statement is conjuncture anyway.

There always will be people who complain something is too hard just as some will complain things are too easy.

SE has said they're adding scalable difficulty, which is the proper way to handle it PUG or otherwise.

Waiwan wrote:
3. Will they give you additional reward for using this tool? Please no.
It will find a freaking party for you without any effort, isnt that enought?!


It's its own reward; you don't have to spend your play time shouting for a group. Should finding fellow players with which to raid really require much effort?

Some parts of an MMO shouldn't be mind-numbingly cumbersome; and finding a PUG for some quick action is among them.

Waiwan wrote:
What are your thoughts?


I recall many a night in XI sitting for hours with a handful of DDs, desperately in search of tanks and healers.

If this features alleviates that, then I'm all for it.

Nothing is all positive. There will, of course, be downsides to it, but I feel the ability to quickly access content outside of regular linkshell events outweighs the potential for the occasional scumbag who would troll with or without the feature.


Edited, Feb 27th 2013 4:26pm by Sephrick
#35 Feb 27 2013 at 3:38 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,010 posts
Quote:
3. Will they give you additional reward for using this tool? Please no.
It will find a freaking party for you without any effort, isnt that enought?!


What do you mean by additional reward? Are you talking about the Call to Arms feature that WoW implemented? If you are, that was to combat a very specific issue and for the most part, it worked well. What was happening was queue times were atrocious because fewer people are willing to take on the leadership responsibility for a dungeon and play as a tank. To some extent this applied to healers as well, but tanks are definitely the most sought after (not unlike XI was....) As a result, folks who played as a damage dealer would have very long queue times and for some of those people whose only options WERE to play in the damage role, it detracted from the overall experience.

So Blizzard looked at the problem and came up with a solution, in the call to arms feature. The tool looks at the queues, and based on what role is most needed it will offer an additional reward for players queuing as that role. The rewards aren't anything grand, just some mounts and potions and stuff, but it was enough to entice folks who otherwise would have just eaten the queue time to mindlessly mash the pew pew buttons, into switching over to that arms or blood or prot spec instead and lowering those queue times for everyone else. In short, everyone wins.

A dungeon finder tool isn't the end of the world. I promise. Other games have used it to great success.
#36 Feb 27 2013 at 3:58 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,010 posts
Eh. While I'm at it, might as well respond to these as well.

Quote:
1. Will dungeon finder tool also port you inside the dungeon like wow tool does? Please no.
This just makes player camp cities, stop beeing lazy and move your asses to the dungeon.


This actually has the opposite effect. Since you can queue from anywhere, there's no need to stay in town. You can be out hunting down achievements, doing quests, fishing, anything at all and not worry about "missing a shout". Check your facts.

Quote:

2. Will they find you also the raid parties for 24 man raids? Please no.
Here I think that raids should never be pugable, it would just dramaticaly increase more ''This is too hard'' complains ...''We are not able to beat this so please nerf it so even us can do it.'' ''I should not be forced to have a guild to do the raids'' bla bla bla..


WoW's raid finder tool isn't designed with hard modes in mind. It was put there so casual people can experience the lore, and has a different tier of difficulty and loot than regular raids. Is there QQ? Sure, but not for the reasons you seem to think. It doesn't put together the hardest mode raids and it doesn't reward the same ilvl of gear.

In short, why don't you go experience these systems for yourself before making judgments on them? You're wrong on every count.

#37 Feb 27 2013 at 9:08 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*
63 posts
Waiwan wrote:

1. Will dungeon finder tool also port you inside the dungeon like wow tool does? Please no.
This just makes player camp cities, stop beeing lazy and move your asses to the dungeon.


2. Will they find you also the raid parties for 24 man raids? Please no.
Here I think that raids should never be pugable, it would just dramaticaly increase more ''This is too hard'' complains ...''We are not able to beat this so please nerf it so even us can do it.'' ''I should not be forced to have a guild to do the raids'' bla bla bla..


3. Will they give you additional reward for using this tool? Please no.
It will find a freaking party for you without any effort, isnt that enought?!


What are your thoughts?
Edited, Feb 26th 2013 3:29pm by Waiwan


1) I would hope that it ports you.
In other MMOs I've played (not just WoW), I've always used the Dungeon Finder not only when I'm in town, but often times when I'm out and about questing and doing whatever. That's part of why it's amazing, you can access it anywhere, stop what you're doing, do a dungeon and potentially get good gear, and then get back to farming puppy pelts (or whatever have you). This can be a very handy thing for someone that hasn't found a good LS yet.

2) Depending on the difficulty of said "Raid" - What would happen if your white mage had to take off because it was his night to make fish tacos? Being able to open the finder to find a quick healer is always better than packing up and going home. But then again, the next white mage will always be a wild card.

3) Meh. I could care less if there's a reward or not.

But all in all, I think it's a good system. Crossing servers should only happen if population issues arise, but not at first, no.

Honestly, I don't think it's purposes should stop there. I think it could be useful for grouping up for various situations you need multiple people for, not necessarily dungeons. If I could've used a system similar to this for finding groups hunting papers for AF3, I would've been pleased. It takes the work out of shouting for groups and certain waiting.
____________________________
FFXIV: Fat Chocobro (Balmung) Level 50 WHM, SCH, BLM, PLD -- MIN, GSM,
FFXIV: Fat Chocobro (Siren) MNK: 21
#38 Feb 28 2013 at 4:44 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
Avatar
18 posts
Torrence wrote:

WoW's raid finder tool isn't designed with hard modes in mind. It was put there so casual people can experience the lore, and has a different tier of difficulty and loot than regular raids. Is there QQ? Sure, but not for the reasons you seem to think. It doesn't put together the hardest mode raids and it doesn't reward the same ilvl of gear.



Understand :) you have a point

But about this one you mentioned.
Me personally, I hate the whole, sorry to say this, retarded addition of heroic raids ... in vanila/tbc there was only one tier of raids and if you didnt have good guild enought or didnt play enought, you had no raid gear. Simple. Some might say, ''wow did it right'', they gave acess to everyone, even without guild, they could do these raids .. Well I prefered if they didnt.. you either got yourself good guild, made enought time to progress or bye bye raid gear :) Dont make me laught, differce in gear is ilvl number and colour of the gear and LFR gear has the same set bonuses as normal and heroic.. :D : Awesome difference colour and number. This is why me and many many of my friends left wow. Difference between casual and hc is almost zero, they just practicaly gave everything to everyone, thats how it is.



Edited, Feb 28th 2013 6:08am by Waiwan
#39 Feb 28 2013 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,232 posts
The biggest negative I saw in the cross-server LFG tool in Rift: Some people saw it as an opportunity at being a total loot ninja or some such. I think as more time goes by and cross-server matching becomes the norm, issues like this will definitely die down. Like someone above said it's going to be less about the "world" you're on and more about a total across the board experience. Add in social media playing a heavier hand in MMO's and it's going to be even harder for some hard core dbag to try to "steal" lootz and run back "home".

The biggest positive: I really liked that I could be out in the world doing whatever I wanted (harvesting/achievements/etc) and be immediately transported to my PUG from the LFG tool. In FFXI I always found myself running from halfway around the world to meet up with my group while fishing. Then, by the time you get there, someone has to be replaced in the next 30 minutes because you just wasted an hour trying to get there. The musical chairs start all over after that and you find yourself spending way to much time standing around waiting for a balanced party.





Edited, Feb 28th 2013 6:14am by LebargeX
____________________________
Character: Urzol Thrush
Server: Ultros
FC: The Kraken Club

Outshined

Teneleven wrote:
We secretly replaced your tank wemelchor with Foldgers Crystal's. Let's see what happens.

#40 Feb 28 2013 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
**
737 posts
I like the duty finder, I think it will make a lot of things much easier and more fun. I don't think it should teleport you to the instance however. With all the aerthytes and abolishment of anima, traveling in XIV will be easy and fast enough as it is. I don't want this to turn into a hub to instance game any more than it already is.

Being able to just join a queue instead of shouting or looking for shouts for events is a great idea, as well as being able to do it anywhere out in the world instead of just standing in town. However in another thread it was discussed how forcing travel creates a good sense of space and makes the world feel big and I think someone said magical even. Of course however there needs to be a balance. The XI way of doing it has its merits, but in a lot of ways it went too far.

In FFXIV though, between teleporting to frequently occuring aerthytes and mounts I think it is already easy enough to make it okay for anyone playing. Having you be teleported to the instance and maybe even back afterwards is just taking the whole "ease of travel" too far imo, doing that would be taking away the good parts of a big world with small gains in time and effort.

Like was discussed there should be a balance to get fast and easy travel while at the same time keeping the sense of a large and explorable world and I believe getting teleported via the queue as well weighs the scales to heavily to the side of easy travel at the cost of the feel of the world.

That said, WoW teleports you to the instance and so I think that is what they will do here as well.
#41 Feb 28 2013 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,010 posts
LebargeX wrote:
The biggest negative I saw in the cross-server LFG tool in Rift: Some people saw it as an opportunity at being a total loot ninja or some such.


Well, the word "ninja" is sometimes misused. Maybe you mean "wh*re"?

Two warriors are in a party, one is doing DPS and on is the tank. DPS piece drops. Both warriors can roll on it, and the tank wins the roll for his off spec. Does it suck that the DPS warrior needed it and the tank was a ****? Yes.

Is it "ninjaing" an item? No, it's really not.

Truly ninjaing an item isn't rolling need on an item your class is allowed to need on in a random dungeon, although we can all agree it's the "nice" thing to do to let that DPS warrior have the DPS piece. Ninjaing was something that happened in games like XI where everything dropped to the treasure pool, and you told Sephiroth he could lot on the Ridill and everyone else should pass, but Cloud lotted too and laughed as his roll went higher and he got the drop. Hope you put in the chat log that it was slated for Seph, or the GM won't do jack. Cloud doesn't care, because he just hops server and changes his name. If you're lucky, a thread will open on BG forums in the player warning section and dramafest will ensue, but not always. (more's the pity, I wasted many a lunch hour on that forum alone).

Anyway, I digress. That doesn't happen at the raid level in Rift (and wow\etc) because there is a setting called Master Looter, where the leader or the chosen Quartermaster recieves all the loot, and can distribute it to the person in the raid who was slated to get that item. Hopefully that will happen here as well, so we can leave that nonsense behind.
#42 Feb 28 2013 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Personally I wish they'd just let you pull up a "hunting" menu of items in the dungeon and let you pick the ones you want to loot. No public loot pool, just custom odds for the stuff you want dropping straight to your inventory.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#43 Feb 28 2013 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,682 posts
Kachi wrote:
Personally I wish they'd just let you pull up a "hunting" menu of items in the dungeon and let you pick the ones you want to loot. No public loot pool, just custom odds for the stuff you want dropping straight to your inventory.


The issue with that, if I understand what you're saying, is that people would gear up too quickly.

No seriously.. in leveling content it wouldn't matter so much. But at endgame it absolutely would. You need people to be doing this content for a system like the duty finder to work, otherwise queue times quickly balloon into the absurd as people get the gear they want and stop doing it.

Waiwan wrote:
Difference between casual and hc is almost zero


You don't know what you're talking about here. Your statements only make any sense at all if you consider gear to be the determining factor in whether a player is skilled or not; which is a patently absurd thing to say.

Let's take a trip to statistics land~

In the previous tier of WoW raiding (Tier 13, Dragon Soul):
62,648 guilds were documented on wowprogress as having participated minimally in raiding, or roughly 800,000 players give or take.
Of those, 1,300 guilds never killed the second boss of the instance on normal difficulty.
And when we get to the top end (the guilds that cleared the entire instance on heroic difficulty), we find that only 14,126 guilds (or roughly 200,000 players) killed the final boss on heroic.

So what happened? If the difference between casual and heroic is nothing, where did those other 600,000 players go? Could it be that, in fact, there's quite a large difference in what players are able to accomplish? That perhaps, even having gear from LFR (which existed in that tier) isn't enough to propel someone to the top, far beyond their actual level of skill?

****, let's go even further and look at the Glory meta achievement which, if you're unfamiliar, requires you to perform strange tasks while defeating all these bosses. It looks like 6,398 guilds got that, or roughly 10% of all tracked guilds.

I realize that WoW hurt you in a fundamental way when the designers realized they were spending a ton of time on something only a tiny handful of people would ever see. But if your entire thesis is that they've removed the distinction between casual players and top-end raiders, you are absolutely wrong.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#44 Feb 28 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,010 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Personally I wish they'd just let you pull up a "hunting" menu of items in the dungeon and let you pick the ones you want to loot. No public loot pool, just custom odds for the stuff you want dropping straight to your inventory.


The issue with that, if I understand what you're saying, is that people would gear up too quickly.

No seriously.. in leveling content it wouldn't matter so much. But at endgame it absolutely would. You need people to be doing this content for a system like the duty finder to work, otherwise queue times quickly balloon into the absurd as people get the gear they want and stop doing it.


People would only gear up too quickly if the item was guaranteed to drop and they were guaranteed a roll. WoW's system doesn't work like that, which is what I assume Kachi is referring to.

Quote:
Raid Finder uses a system called Personal Loot. When a boss is killed for the first time each week, every player has a fixed percentage chance of receiving a loot item. For each player, the game will decide whether the player will receive loot. If so, the game will then select a class- and spec-appropriate item from the boss's loot table and immediately deposit the item into the player's inventory. The specialization is the one the player is using at the time of the boss's death, and is not related to the role chosen by the player when queueing for the raid. All players who do not receive a loot item will instead be issued a bag of gold. All loot gained through this method is strictly Bind on Pickup and can not be traded with other players.

Bosses may only be looted once per week, though they can be run as often as desired.


That's what I assume he is talking about, and currently Blizzard is investigating making it so that you select the items you would prefer to get should you happen to be lucky enough to win the random selection out of the 20 people in the raid (because people were queuing as one role to get a fast queue then ninja-swapping to the role they wanted a chance to receive loot for). It's actually slower than gearing up through a raid, especially if you are a tank or a healer who raids tend to make sure they max out first and there's less competition. It's definitely not a "fast" way to gear up, unless the RNG gods smile upon you. Not to mention this isn't top tier gear, either. Watered down encouters mean watered down equipment and no one is facerolling hard modes with this stuff.

Edited, Feb 28th 2013 12:20pm by Torrence
#45 Feb 28 2013 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,682 posts
Quote:
People would only gear up too quickly if the item was guaranteed to drop and they were guaranteed a roll. WoW's system doesn't work like that, which is what I assume Kachi is referring to.


Could be, if so I misunderstood him. I was confused by:

Quote:
No public loot pool, just custom odds for the stuff you want dropping straight to your inventory.


Which made it sound as though you'd be pre-selecting the loot you wanted and then you'd have a higher chance to get that as opposed to getting something less desirable.

My understanding for what WoW is planning is allowing you to sort of alter your loot table to get gear for another spec *instead* of your current spec. The odds would be the same, you'd just be getting loot as though you were a different spec.

Edited, Feb 28th 2013 11:23am by Callinon
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#46 Feb 28 2013 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
***
2,010 posts
Quote:

Which made it sound as though you'd be pre-selecting the loot you wanted and then you'd have a higher chance to get that as opposed to getting something less desirable.

My understanding for what WoW is planning is allowing you to sort of alter your loot table to get gear for another spec *instead* of your current spec. The odds would be the same, you'd just be getting loot as though you were a different spec.


I don't think Kachi was looking to have the odds of getting loot increased for the individual. The game essentially does a /random on its own to choose who is going to get a drop from this boss, and the person who was selected would get something they were interested in.

The alternative is public rolls, where sometimes people are ***** and roll on something just to spite someone else, or to sell, or whatever.

Edited, Feb 28th 2013 12:35pm by Torrence
#47 Feb 28 2013 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
People would only gear up too quickly if the item was guaranteed to drop and they were guaranteed a roll. WoW's system doesn't work like that, which is what I assume Kachi is referring to.


Could be, if so I misunderstood him. I was confused by:

Quote:
No public loot pool, just custom odds for the stuff you want dropping straight to your inventory.


Which made it sound as though you'd be pre-selecting the loot you wanted and then you'd have a higher chance to get that as opposed to getting something less desirable.

My understanding for what WoW is planning is allowing you to sort of alter your loot table to get gear for another spec *instead* of your current spec. The odds would be the same, you'd just be getting loot as though you were a different spec.

Edited, Feb 28th 2013 11:23am by Callinon


The way I understand Kachi's idea is this:

Party of 8: Tank, Healer, Buffer, 4x DD, Caster.

When entering the instance, players pull up a list of the loot pool and choose:
Tank - Shield
Healer - Cloak
Buffer - Hat
DD1 - Spear
DD2 - Spear
DD3 - Gloves
DD4 - Spear
Caster - Staff

They go through the raid and kill the boss and the shield, spear, and a crystal drop. Tank is the only one who picked the shield, so he gets it. 3 DD's chose the spear, so the game rolls on each to see who gets it. Crystal is dropped randomly to anyone in the party. This way you don't have a BLM thinking about maybe lvling WAR, then seeing Ridill drop and going "OMG MINE I was thinking of lvling WAR!"
____________________________
Our team is like a flock of woodpeckers in a petrified forest. We just need to keep working and keep an eye open for opportunity.

FFXI
Toofar - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - WHM BLM SMN
Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#48 Feb 28 2013 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
**
383 posts
Or they could just implement a need before greed system that won't allow you to select need for an item that your current class can't equip.
____________________________
This is my sig; Enjoy.
FFXIV: Tom Carroll - Excalibur
FC: Sitzkireg (www.sitzkrieg.guildwork.com)
#49 Feb 28 2013 at 1:31 PM Rating: Excellent
******
44,300 posts
"I lotted for my offset."
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#50 Feb 28 2013 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
TurboTom wrote:
Or they could just implement a need before greed system that won't allow you to select need for an item that your current class can't equip.


We had a need before greed system in DCUO, but it wasn't class restricted, which kind of defeated the point. Anyone could roll need or greed, but if one person did need and 12 other did greed, the one got it. This caused no one to ever roll greed for anything. The problem I have with this system is that some people have more jobs leveled than others. Say I level BRD, GLD, LNC and ARC, but Joe only leveled LNC and ARC. To run the raid we need a BRD and I'm the only one in the company who has it leveled. This means that until someone else in the company levels their BRD up, I'm stuck only gearing mine up while joe can gear up both of his jobs. What if I max it out before someone gets theirs to cap? That means I can't go on LNC and work on gearing that job, which is ludicrous.

It's not always as easy as "find another BRD and invite him to your ls" or "Find a way to win without a BRD" (queue Kachi's class balance argument Smiley: wink). In that situation, a player would be SOL and at the whim of other players, which is a bad design in my opinion.
____________________________
Our team is like a flock of woodpeckers in a petrified forest. We just need to keep working and keep an eye open for opportunity.

FFXI
Toofar - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - WHM BLM SMN
Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#51 Feb 28 2013 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
**
383 posts
IKickYoDog wrote:
TurboTom wrote:
Or they could just implement a need before greed system that won't allow you to select need for an item that your current class can't equip.


We had a need before greed system in DCUO, but it wasn't class restricted, which kind of defeated the point. Anyone could roll need or greed, but if one person did need and 12 other did greed, the one got it. This caused no one to ever roll greed for anything. The problem I have with this system is that some people have more jobs leveled than others. Say I level BRD, GLD, LNC and ARC, but Joe only leveled LNC and ARC. To run the raid we need a BRD and I'm the only one in the company who has it leveled. This means that until someone else in the company levels their BRD up, I'm stuck only gearing mine up while joe can gear up both of his jobs. What if I max it out before someone gets theirs to cap? That means I can't go on LNC and work on gearing that job, which is ludicrous.

It's not always as easy as "find another BRD and invite him to your ls" or "Find a way to win without a BRD" (queue Kachi's class balance argument Smiley: wink). In that situation, a player would be SOL and at the whim of other players, which is a bad design in my opinion.

Well, I can't ever imagine you'd need an ideal setup for random instance, but SE's made me scratch my head often in the past. Furthermore, if your LS or team is making you take a certain class to whatever it is that you're doing, they should offer you priority or at least a chance to roll. In the latter case, however, a master-looter system would be best.But that brings me to another point; if your guild is making you go to raids and not letting you loot on stuff that you can use, maybe you need to find a new guild.

Now, as far as a need/greed system with randoms is concerned, if it's a queue system, there should be nothing holding you back from queuing from the class that you want gear for. Even in WoW, most people are pretty cool about letting you loot for your OS, but the game blocks you from needing any gear that's useless to your class. I could only assume that SE is smart enough to develop a system that does the same.
____________________________
This is my sig; Enjoy.
FFXIV: Tom Carroll - Excalibur
FC: Sitzkireg (www.sitzkrieg.guildwork.com)
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 119 All times are in CST
LPast, Snarrla, Stilivan, Anonymous Guests (116)