Forum Settings
       
1 2 Next »
This thread is locked

PaladineryFollow

#27 Mar 13 2013 at 2:31 PM Rating: Decent
Monks where lame, they never yelled "Wataahhhh" After some kick or something <.< COME ON SE!!!
#28 Mar 13 2013 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
3,599 posts
Ostia wrote:
Monks where lame, they never yelled "Wataahhhh" After some kick or something <.< COME ON SE!!!


This is true, and throughout the Job storyline, they never fought against any groups of ninjas that formed a circle around you and then jumped in 1 at a time. Bullsh*t.
____________________________

[ffxivsig]1183812[/ffxivsig]
#29 Mar 13 2013 at 6:29 PM Rating: Default
is it just me or was everything kinda crappy compared to black mage and warrior in FFXIV? I didn't play that much, but people didn't really want me on Dragoon.
#30 Mar 14 2013 at 7:30 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
3,599 posts
Poubelle wrote:
is it just me or was everything kinda crappy compared to black mage and warrior in FFXIV? I didn't play that much, but people didn't really want me on Dragoon.


nah just PUG perceptions. A lot of the casual players thought every job sucked but those 2. Hell, I've lead parties where members sent me tells complaining that I invited a monk. People are stupid. This is why I loved parsing things. It was always fun to point out that the monk did more dmg than that sh*ttily geared blm complainer.

Edited, Mar 14th 2013 9:31am by Louiscool
____________________________

[ffxivsig]1183812[/ffxivsig]
#31 Mar 14 2013 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
***
3,825 posts
GDLYL wrote:
War and Pld weren't anywhere near equal in skill that they took to play. Surely you jest. I might be assuming, because I don't know if your sig is current.


I thought I worded things well enough to suggest that a well played PLD still required skill from teammates, and that a skilled WAR tanking certain AOE fights required a similar level of skill. I also mentioned that WAR is easy mode tanking and because of that more people play it or demand it in PUGs which IMO leads to even less skilled PLD tanks to choose from (due to lack of experience).

My sig is/was current, or fairly close. I do not have end game experience with PLD, however I do have experience with it up to the same point I did with WAR. I've always been the type of player that doesn't get the best gear first, so I have to make up for that with skill.... from what I played, I did not have the skill to be a good PLD without support of my party... something that was hard to guarantee in PUGs. I do however have good experience with WAR and PLD tanks in almost every boss fight/primal/dungeon while playing as everything in my sig that's at 50, so I'm VERY familiar with how the hate bar progressed or became static and at which points during various fights AND the amount of holding back required and the duration for both tanks to be successful.
#32 Mar 15 2013 at 1:56 AM Rating: Excellent
**
412 posts
Poubelle wrote:
is it just me or was everything kinda crappy compared to black mage and warrior in FFXIV? I didn't play that much, but people didn't really want me on Dragoon.


The #1 damage output on the most difficult fight 1.0 had to offer came from Dragoons. Perhaps you had experiences with people who were as open minded as you.
#33 Mar 15 2013 at 2:11 AM Rating: Default
**
412 posts
Perrin wrote:
GDLYL wrote:
War and Pld weren't anywhere near equal in skill that they took to play. Surely you jest. I might be assuming, because I don't know if your sig is current.


I thought I worded things well enough to suggest that a well played PLD still required skill from teammates, and that a skilled WAR tanking certain AOE fights required a similar level of skill. I also mentioned that WAR is easy mode tanking and because of that more people play it or demand it in PUGs which IMO leads to even less skilled PLD tanks to choose from (due to lack of experience).

My sig is/was current, or fairly close. I do not have end game experience with PLD, however I do have experience with it up to the same point I did with WAR. I've always been the type of player that doesn't get the best gear first, so I have to make up for that with skill.... from what I played, I did not have the skill to be a good PLD without support of my party... something that was hard to guarantee in PUGs. I do however have good experience with WAR and PLD tanks in almost every boss fight/primal/dungeon while playing as everything in my sig that's at 50, so I'm VERY familiar with how the hate bar progressed or became static and at which points during various fights AND the amount of holding back required and the duration for both tanks to be successful.


You're somewhat vague, but that's ok. I'm curious, can you tell me which content with multiple monsters required skillful play from Warrior? Unless, exp parties is defined as content. Even then, I'd still be interested to learn. Is it wrong of me to have the opinion that, if you haven't used Paladin end game, then you wouldn't be able to make an informed assessment comparing the two? While I can respect your opinion, I don't agree on the grounds that simply being in a party with a Paladin doesn't give you that jobs experience. While we may have the presence of mind, I found that my job was more effective if I knew the tank personally. Only because you get used to their play style. They usually informed us when certain things were applicable/NA. I say that only because you said you had no Paladin end game experience, then proceeded to say you had good experience with WAR and PLD....Smiley: dubious If that's what you mean when you said you worded things well... Smiley: oyvey

Edited, Mar 15th 2013 9:07am by GDLYL
#34 Mar 15 2013 at 4:55 PM Rating: Good
***
1,313 posts
If Yoshi is following the fight mechanic design of WoW and other MMOs, I think you'll find that any tank class will be sought after and completely viable.
#35 Mar 15 2013 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
**
636 posts
Transmigration wrote:
If Yoshi is following the fight mechanic design of WoW and other MMOs, I think you'll find that any tank class will be sought after and completely viable.




I'm hoping that's true...I play Paladins in most games, but even then, staying Warrior for tanking doesn't seem too bad

Edited, Mar 15th 2013 5:19pm by Gelthidor
#36 Mar 15 2013 at 5:44 PM Rating: Good
***
3,825 posts
GDLYL wrote:
I say that only because you said you had no Paladin end game experience, then proceeded to say you had good experience with WAR and PLD....Smiley: dubious If that's what you mean when you said you worded things well... Smiley: oyvey


Is it not obvious that most of my experience with those jobs is supporting them via another job by either placing myself properly, giving them the appropriate song and not the rest of the PT, knowing how they need to tank certain mobs, going nuts or holding back, etc....

For WAR AOE tanking I'm referring to non-world mob situations. Primals, dungeons, and a few of the job/story related boss fights with minions. You could get by with a half-butt WAR in a lot of situations, but a GOOD WAR made a lot of the fights successful.

It is wrong of you to have the opinion that fighting alongside a handful of good tanks and a buttload of mediocre ones via PUGs from shouts is not enough information for me to see how the jobs perform differently AND effectively/non-effectively in given situations with players of a certain skill. Yes from personal experience for PLD I'm lacking a few skills (one of which is a game changer) to compare it to WAR at 50, but I can compare how tanking with WAR was up to the point I am with PLD to make an accurate statement on the personal skills it takes to operate either one as well. Both sets of information combined give me a personal view of both tanks and I stand by my wording. Please feel free to rip this apart to try and say something similar to what I'm saying...
#37 Mar 15 2013 at 6:57 PM Rating: Default
**
412 posts
Perrin wrote:
GDLYL wrote:
I say that only because you said you had no Paladin end game experience, then proceeded to say you had good experience with WAR and PLD....Smiley: dubious If that's what you mean when you said you worded things well... Smiley: oyvey


Is it not obvious that most of my experience with those jobs is supporting them via another job by either placing myself properly, giving them the appropriate song and not the rest of the PT, knowing how they need to tank certain mobs, going nuts or holding back, etc....

For WAR AOE tanking I'm referring to non-world mob situations. Primals, dungeons, and a few of the job/story related boss fights with minions. You could get by with a half-butt WAR in a lot of situations, but a GOOD WAR made a lot of the fights successful.

It is wrong of you to have the opinion that fighting alongside a handful of good tanks and a buttload of mediocre ones via PUGs from shouts is not enough information for me to see how the jobs perform differently AND effectively/non-effectively in given situations with players of a certain skill. Yes from personal experience for PLD I'm lacking a few skills (one of which is a game changer) to compare it to WAR at 50, but I can compare how tanking with WAR was up to the point I am with PLD to make an accurate statement on the personal skills it takes to operate either one as well. Both sets of information combined give me a personal view of both tanks and I stand by my wording. Please feel free to rip this apart to try and say something similar to what I'm saying...


I have no idea what you're trying to say by your last sentence. However, you're starting to sound insecure in your position. I don't know you sir. Nothing you did in 1.0 is obvious. You also talk in circles. If you believe your position can be ripped apart, then you should evaluate and adjust accordingly. Being stubborn is your right. You can delude yourself into thinking that observing is on par with personal experience. You seem to have a problem expressing your views effectively as well as objectively (the latter because you lack the personal experience but insist that you are 'informed'). Admitting that you have no experience, followed by stating that it's sufficient enough to make and educated assessment, is what I'm addressing.

Ok, you brought up supportive rolls. So, in the easy Ifrit fight, it is the job of the DPS to not be a burden on the party. Don't take needless damage and save the self healing monk skill for Vulcan Burst. White Mage should be focused on the tank. Taking the time to heal a DPS would increase the of Eruption risk on the White Mage. That is your supportive role. Now, your contention is, and I'm following your logic, is that you have 'good' experience of the White Mage job because you understand that ONE aspect in that particular fight.

In Cutter's Cry, we used 1 Black Mage 1 White Mage 1 Paladin and 5 Monks. Now opening with shoulder tackle is bad for initial hate, plus it will stun him, preventing a shield blocking chance for Phalanx,that could be used in securing a better threat foundation. To break the tail, it's better to Invigorate before the fight and toss a chakram and raw Dragon kick. Doing the combo will also stun Chimera causing the issue earlier mentioned. Too many stuns throughout the fight builds hate quickly so you should only stun the devastating Voice of the Dragon/Ram. If you get red hate, turn off Fist of Fire etc. How is me knowing my role in that dynamic giving me Paladin experience? And our Paladin is a very good one. All I'm doing is my job as a monk. What the Paladin is doing is unknown to me. I'm not the one experiencing it. By your logic, you can then just pick up Paladin and tank it no problem because you understand how to not pull hate. This is not me telling you, "STFU you don't know what you're talking about." This is me addressing your choice of words and your obstinate defense of it.

If you fought Ifrit Extreme, you'd understand even more how DIFFERENT the roles are for jobs are in that fight. If you follow the path of another job, you will get the party defeated. My role on Ifrit Exreme was Warrior, meaning my job was to stand in front when ever it was safe for the tank, and use Vengeance to deal extra damage while taking out my horn. It was also to to deal with the middle nails. What the other jobs were doing in that fight was not my interest, unless they placed me in that role. If I were to switch to Whm, Pld, Mnk, or Brd, I'd have to learn the fight from that perspective, ergo adding more knowledge of the fight. Me being on only one job, limits my information on it. While I understand what other jobs are doing theoretically, I admit my personal ignorance.

The biggest flaw in your reasoning is that even though you can watch someone fight Ifrit Extreme on a Youtube video, the actual experience through your own person, is not "similar" or "good."

I have no idea what your 'real' contention is. Mine however, is telling you that if you haven't experienced Paladin end game, you can't formulate an accurate comparison between the two stating that they take equal or similar skill. Feel free to share your experiences on Warrior and how you do various things. There is no need to argue about that. Remember, I only responded to you when you stated that they were equal in skill. Don't twist it into anything else.






Edited, Mar 15th 2013 9:12pm by GDLYL
#38 Mar 16 2013 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
**
636 posts
I honestly have faith in SE's devs, so I'm sure that we'll see PLD getting more balanced for tanking. Maybe they'll add some fights that really needs the better armor or something...I can see Warrior and Dragoon being better tanks in the beginning, and then near the end game, I can see them adding some use for Paladins.

#39 Mar 16 2013 at 6:53 PM Rating: Good
***
3,825 posts
If you're only doing your job and don't know how the other jobs fit into the picture, you're playing wrong
#40 Mar 16 2013 at 9:35 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
Xoie wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Xoie wrote:
...I guess the grass is always greener on the other side.

It's not that really. The problem is 1 jobs ONLY use is tanking.
The other 2 jobs are great in other roles, and both are top notch DD's. If you ever had a party with 3 warriors, you just tell which one to tank, which to DD. IF you had a party with 3 Paladin's, you just fake d/c...

Same if it's a party of 3 white mages, but that doesn't mean white mages are useless.


They would be if Black Mage managed to be a superior healer while also dealing lots of damage, though.
#41 Mar 17 2013 at 7:13 AM Rating: Default
**
412 posts
Perrin wrote:
If you're only doing your job and don't know how the other jobs fit into the picture, you're playing wrong


"While I understand what other jobs are doing theoretically, I admit my personal ignorance."

That's a very clever strawman. I remember asking you not to twist what I said.

Perrin wrote:
I do however have good experience with WAR and PLD tanks in almost every boss fight/primal/dungeon while playing as everything in my sig that's at 50, so I'm VERY familiar with how the hate bar progressed or became static and at which points during various fights AND the amount of holding back required and the duration for both tanks to be successful.


Several posts ago, I pointed out the fact that you were being vague. I was very curious why you had an issue giving specificity in certain situations supporting your position. A quick glance at your dungeon/Notorious Monster history made it very clear. Fighting Ifrit, Moogle, and Thousand Maws of To To Rak doesn't give you "good" experience in "almost every" boss fight/primal/dungeon. You can twist that anyway you see fit. You did ZERO level 50 dungeons. No Batraal, Miser, Coin Counter, Myrmidon Princess, and Chimera. I gave you specific information on those fights, not knowing you hadn't the faintest idea what I was talking about. This is not an ad hominem, you were purposefully being disingenuous. While this was initially about you having personal experience, it has now digressed into you having experience, period. Smiley: disappointed If you're going to be dishonest about play experience, you probably shouldn't make your history public, sir.

Edited, Mar 17th 2013 9:30am by GDLYL
#42 Mar 17 2013 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
**
728 posts
It is totally not that serious man... No need to sound elitist, it's his experience and opinion.. He never even said that WAR took as much skill was PLD Just that WAR did take some skill to master. Whether or not that is globally true is for whomever played the class to decide. Just because he didn't complete all of the content that came out with both classes doesn't mean his experiences are completely wrong and he should be shamed for them. His OPINION was over what content he had completed and I for one think that's plenty for the point he was making.

I assume WAR did take some skill, as in you couldn't just go in and beat your face against the keyboard or sit on your controller and fart out a good tank rotation. You both pretty much had the same point, but apparently it wasn't the same enough to not warrant walls of bitter angst. Chill out and play FFIV, the Pally **** of FFs and call it a day XD.

Edited, Mar 17th 2013 4:07pm by DamienSScott
#43 Mar 17 2013 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
***
3,825 posts
GDLYL wrote:
While this was initially about you having personal experience, it has now digressed into you having experience, period. Smiley: disappointed If you're going to be dishonest about play experience, you probably shouldn't make your history public, sir.


This isn't about watching a video about content, it's about experiencing it... and I have. I think you need to get laid or something man. You have a serious problem... maybe one of the forum trolls or resident pessimists is contagious... I dunno, but it's quite obvious no one can have a conversation with you unless they drink your Kool-Aid and play by your rules and your rules alone.
#44 Mar 17 2013 at 4:59 PM Rating: Default
**
412 posts
DamienSScott wrote:
It is totally not that serious man... No need to sound elitist, it's his experience and opinion.. He never even said that WAR took as much skill was PLD Just that WAR did take some skill to master. Whether or not that is globally true is for whomever played the class to decide. Just because he didn't complete all of the content that came out with both classes doesn't mean his experiences are completely wrong and he should be shamed for them. His OPINION was over what content he had completed and I for one think that's plenty for the point he was making.

I assume WAR did take some skill, as in you couldn't just go in and beat your face against the keyboard or sit on your controller and fart out a good tank rotation. You both pretty much had the same point, but apparently it wasn't the same enough to not warrant walls of bitter angst. Chill out and play FFIV, the Pally **** of FFs and call it a day XD.

Edited, Mar 17th 2013 4:07pm by DamienSScott



I was very specific on the abilities of both War and Pld, and how they differ in MANY situations. He brought up his opinion on "almost every" situation vaguely. Which is why I pointed it out. The usefulness depended on the content. If you didn't do the content, how can you determine the usefulness? (My main argument) How is saying you did dungeons to gain 'good' experience, but actually not doing them sit with you? Pretend all you want that I'm being "elite." I've been very clear, and polite on where I stood. If opinions were important, then that's all it would take to win a debate right? Knowledge gained through experience would hold to value because we can all hide behind, "It's MY opinion." That line of thinking is why everyone thinks they're an expert, while watching from the outside. "He should have done this/that!" It's interesting you ran to his defense against my opinion though. My opinion isn't valid right? Even if you assumed I found it serious, why is my opinion that it's serious less valid? If i'm elite, then what is he? Where is your objectivity, sir? You addressed my so called elitist words. Why didn't you address his dishonesty?

You suggested I chill out? I assure you I'm quite calm. Why wouldn't I be? There was an slight air of smugness in my post rather than anger if anything. Not because I think I'm better, but to finally understand why he was wording his opinion in circles. His lack of experience, which was the foundation, put an end to it. Even if he had responded, there would be no need for me to reply.

Did I say you could fart/sit on the control device or choice and win the fight? Or did I list specific tools in the Warrior skill-set that made it overpowered/very easy to do anything? If you're going to argue against me, please do so intelligently. If in the end my position is wrong, I would have gained something. That's my purpose for a healthy argument. Your sanctimony *in my opinion,* has no power here. Address my argument (words) directly, and not your feelings.

Are you that person who feels so uncomfortable by two people arguing, that you make it all about yourself and your feelings? Rather than let the two adults hash it out themselves, you feel the need to play peace keeper, or pick a side to gang up on the other. You then interject sanctimonious superiority, (which isn't elitist at all right?) in an effort to stop it. I will enjoy 2.0 good sir. I hope you do as well.

Edited, Mar 17th 2013 7:06pm by GDLYL
#45 Mar 17 2013 at 5:05 PM Rating: Default
**
412 posts
Perrin wrote:
GDLYL wrote:
While this was initially about you having personal experience, it has now digressed into you having experience, period. Smiley: disappointed If you're going to be dishonest about play experience, you probably shouldn't make your history public, sir.


This isn't about watching a video about content, it's about experiencing it... and I have. I think you need to get laid or something man. You have a serious problem... maybe one of the forum trolls or resident pessimists is contagious... I dunno, but it's quite obvious no one can have a conversation with you unless they drink your Kool-Aid and play by your rules and your rules alone.


Your character says otherwise. You can insult me anyway you see fit. I will more than gladly listen to your arguments, when you decide to do so. So far you've only made claims. Claims, which I believe wouldn't have existed had you retained the experience. That is all. It's also hard to share ideas with a liar, sir. I shared my Kool-Aid with the class. I thought you'd have said, "no, I did that fight with a Warrior, but It took skill because *Insert valid story derived from experience here.* Like I stated before, there would be no further need to argue with you, because your experience, and your interpretation of it is valid. If what I said is rude to you in any way, then I assure you, I'm not the one with the serious problem.

Edited, Mar 17th 2013 7:08pm by GDLYL
#46REDACTED, Posted: Mar 17 2013 at 5:40 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) when it comes to this, the argument is pretty much exhausted. stop spamming both of you, or I'll report.
#47 Mar 17 2013 at 7:20 PM Rating: Excellent
**
728 posts
Sheesh, you missed the point entirely. Also, no one here is really arguing other than yourself. I never said you didn't have a completely valid point, which I'm inclined to believe you do. You have actually played the game and experienced the I was just trying to point out that you were making way too big of deal out of his opinion and experiences with the game. You may have had more insight due to content completion but due to his experience playing the game he came to his own conclusion. There is nothing wrong about either of your opinions' but you just really seemed to want to argue a very moot point considering you both pretty much agreed that paladin was flawed in 1.0. I personally wasn't able to play 1.0, not for lack of desire but I apologize for all of us that weren't able to exhaust all content with every job.

I was simply trying to point out the futility of arguing about this subject. My referencing to improper controller use was simply a joke, not a flagrant attack aimed at you. And.. if he didn't bring up exact counterpoints as to where warrior took skill or whatever the issue was, could it not be because the content in question was so utterly underwhelming that it didn't warrant the capacity to be memorable? I enjoyed your insight on the tank jobs in 1.0 but your delivery didn't need to be so aggressive.
#48 Mar 17 2013 at 7:29 PM Rating: Good
***
3,825 posts
GDLYL wrote:
You can insult me anyway you see fit.


There was no insult, implied or otherwise... It just appears from my brief experience "chatting" with you that you could use a stress relieving activity in your life. Unless you are a monk or a priest abstaining from the act, it is a medical fact that getting some is one of the most stress relieving activities a human can do.

I'm done talking with you about tanks. Damien seems to get what I was saying, I don't know what is prohibiting you from comprehending and honestly I no longer care....
#49 Mar 17 2013 at 9:21 PM Rating: Decent
**
412 posts
DamienSScott wrote:
Sheesh, you missed the point entirely. Also, no one here is really arguing other than yourself. I never said you didn't have a completely valid point, which I'm inclined to believe you do. You have actually played the game and experienced the I was just trying to point out that you were making way too big of deal out of his opinion and experiences with the game. You may have had more insight due to content completion but due to his experience playing the game he came to his own conclusion. There is nothing wrong about either of your opinions' but you just really seemed to want to argue a very moot point considering you both pretty much agreed that paladin was flawed in 1.0. I personally wasn't able to play 1.0, not for lack of desire but I apologize for all of us that weren't able to exhaust all content with every job.

I was simply trying to point out the futility of arguing about this subject. My referencing to improper controller use was simply a joke, not a flagrant attack aimed at you. And.. if he didn't bring up exact counterpoints as to where warrior took skill or whatever the issue was, could it not be because the content in question was so utterly underwhelming that it didn't warrant the capacity to be memorable? I enjoyed your insight on the tank jobs in 1.0 but your delivery didn't need to be so aggressive.


I know what it is you're saying, and I completely respect it. Especially in the manner you just presented it. I have exchanged ideas on other's opinions before. This isn't always true, but two reasonable people debating usually comes to a faster conclusion when the facts are presented summarily. They either agree to disagree, or one person admits their ideological position needs reworking. Dancing around the bush using logical fallacies usually results in a longer wait for the conclusion. It usually devolves into, (who has less of a life, who's more over weight, who who has a less sex etc). In the end, who resorted to using the assumed state of the other person's real life? He still refuses to address my exact words. I have done nothing but only address his opinions. It's why I asked him if his sig was updated. I didn't go investigating to insult him or to be more elite than him, like you suggested. Even if I'm wrong, I stated my wrong position clearly. I think you have me mistaken for someone else. I debate in hopes that I may be found wrong and could add to my information. It's hard for humans to admit defeat. It's a lot easier when you place your cards on the table so the world can than impart their own views on you. There was nothing emotional about my position. Arguing isn't the end of the world. It's not that serious. (That's a helpful mindset for an intimate relationship FYI) It's wrong however, to argue dishonestly, as it corrupts everything.

Not doing content = good experience and bring my lack of a sex life isn't an insult. It's clear how he perceives things. I will do everyone a favor and also drop it. My apologies.



Edited, Mar 17th 2013 11:28pm by GDLYL
#50 Mar 18 2013 at 5:56 AM Rating: Excellent
Yeah this one seems done, I'm going to stick a fork in it.
1 2 Next »
This thread is locked
You cannot post in a locked topic!
Recent Visitors: 204 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (204)