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Letter From the Producer Live VI RecapFollow

#102 Apr 23 2013 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
apapertiger wrote:
I hope the hard work pays off and it succeeds. I'd like to see the game prove everyone wrong and make a come back. Even with those feelings, Yoshi P's not getting me very excited. I haven't paid much attention in the last year though, but what I have heard it seems like an average mmo with some Final Fantasy fan service.

It could still be great but I can't get hyped on that.


Even if I never played a game in my life I would have to be excited and thoroughly impressed with Yoshi P's performance from a purely business perspective. He has not only completely turned this thing around 180 degrees but he is also fundamentally changing the way Square-Enix does business. With the continuous flow of short writings, live letters, long letters from the producer, and the stream of live footage, in-game screens, etc. Yoshi is hyping and presenting the game in a manner that is a complete departure from what Square-Enix has been known for in the past which was the "we are so awesome we don't need to listen to our fans or hype or products," mentality. He is a young gamer with a lot of energy and focus and his hard work not only gives me a glimmer of hope for this title but for the company as a whole if he continues to work on other projects. A very, very exciting prospect.


Psst, that quote in your post isn't from me. I was quoting apapertiger.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2013 3:38pm by BartelX
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#103 Apr 23 2013 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
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What I mean is that he isn't setting the game apart from other mmos except for the fan service. Telling me how your game is like all the others, isn't going to get me excited for your product. It just makes me wonder why I'm not on their product. I get more excited to hear how the product is different, what sets it apart from the pack.

And I know that WoW set this lofty bar that every MMO wants to achieve so they look at WoW. And borrow from it. But they should borrow from the ideals of WoW's design, how do we make this better.
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#104 Apr 23 2013 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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apapertiger wrote:
What I mean is that he isn't setting the game apart from other mmos except for the fan service. Telling me how your game is like all the others, isn't going to get me excited for your product. It just makes me wonder why I'm not on their product. I get more excited to hear how the product is different, what sets it apart from the pack.

And I know that WoW set this lofty bar that every MMO wants to achieve so they look at WoW. And borrow from it. But they should borrow from the ideals of WoW's design, how do we make this better.


The answer to that is quite clear. I blame the MMOs players. They are the ones who absolutely refuse to give anything a chance that is NOT a WoW clone. Yet then they complain that the MMO market has nothing new to offer. Well, Duh.
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#105 Apr 23 2013 at 5:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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What I mean is that he isn't setting the game apart from other mmos except for the fan service. Telling me how your game is like all the others, isn't going to get me excited for your product. It just makes me wonder why I'm not on their product. I get more excited to hear how the product is different, what sets it apart from the pack.


I think he's made it pretty clear that what's making this game different is that it's a complete Final Fantasy game, with the goal of incorporating elements of many games from throughout the franchise. To me, that definitely sets this game apart from everything else on the market.

Now, in terms of functionality, it's too early to know all the ways in which this game will be different. I'd say the system of grand companies/free companies, with linkshells still around, too, is something different. The group limit breaks will be different (although TESO is copying that, lol). Having access to all the jobs and classes on one character is different. Being able to change classes anytime by changing weapons is different. The game being built on a scalable game engine is different. Having the game available for the PS3, with people on different platforms playing together, is different.

Based on the End of an Era story, I'm optimistic that ARR's storyline will blow any other MMO out of the water... so that's different, too.

Anyway, I think Yoshi-P has done a fine job on all fronts.

EDIT: One more difference that I'm hoping to see from ARR is a finer balance between solo play and party play. In retrospect, Final Fantasy XI was too party heavy. However, newer games like Guild Wars 2 are way too soloable. I'm hoping that ARR provides more of a balance between soloing and partying, because a person's desire to play should never be hindered by a lack of people available to play with. I'm not aware of any other game that properly strikes this balance.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2013 4:51pm by Thayos
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#106 Apr 23 2013 at 6:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
The answer to that is quite clear. I blame the MMOs players. They are the ones who absolutely refuse to give anything a chance that is NOT a WoW clone. Yet then they complain that the MMO market has nothing new to offer. Well, Duh.


Now that's not fair, XIV 1.0 was pretty different from WoW, a lot of people gave it a chance..... it sucked.

An MMO doesn't have to be a clone of WoW in order to not be awful, but reinventing the wheel just to say you have something different is stupid.
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#107 Apr 23 2013 at 6:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
apapertiger wrote:
I hope the hard work pays off and it succeeds. I'd like to see the game prove everyone wrong and make a come back. Even with those feelings, Yoshi P's not getting me very excited. I haven't paid much attention in the last year though, but what I have heard it seems like an average mmo with some Final Fantasy fan service.

It could still be great but I can't get hyped on that.


Even if I never played a game in my life I would have to be excited and thoroughly impressed with Yoshi P's performance from a purely business perspective. He has not only completely turned this thing around 180 degrees but he is also fundamentally changing the way Square-Enix does business. With the continuous flow of short writings, live letters, long letters from the producer, and the stream of live footage, in-game screens, etc. Yoshi is hyping and presenting the game in a manner that is a complete departure from what Square-Enix has been known for in the past which was the "we are so awesome we don't need to listen to our fans or hype or products," mentality. He is a young gamer with a lot of energy and focus and his hard work not only gives me a glimmer of hope for this title but for the company as a whole if he continues to work on other projects. A very, very exciting prospect.





*Thanks BartelX for the correction.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2013 3:33pm by electromagnet83


This is a great point and one I think is getting overlooked anymore. The amount of communication from the developer is huge compared to days of old and, I would argue, from other developers in general. They do have a chance to make something the fans really want here.
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#108 Apr 23 2013 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
What I mean is that he isn't setting the game apart from other mmos except for the fan service. Telling me how your game is like all the others, isn't going to get me excited for your product. It just makes me wonder why I'm not on their product. I get more excited to hear how the product is different, what sets it apart from the pack.


EDIT: One more difference that I'm hoping to see from ARR is a finer balance between solo play and party play. In retrospect, Final Fantasy XI was too party heavy. However, newer games like Guild Wars 2 are way too soloable. I'm hoping that ARR provides more of a balance between soloing and partying, because a person's desire to play should never be hindered by a lack of people available to play with. I'm not aware of any other game that properly strikes this balance.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2013 4:51pm by Thayos


I felt like XIV 1.0 actually had a great balance. I solo'd the entire way to 50...but I didn't have to. With the guildleves you can party up or do them solo with relative ease. I felt like it made the game really enjoyable since I didn't have to DEPEND on others like I did in FFXI but could party if I wanted to, which many people did often just to make it more interactive and fun :)
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#109 Apr 23 2013 at 7:14 PM Rating: Excellent
You are right in that ffxiv 1.x made soloing to 50 possible, but it was incredibly boring. I am hoping that ARR Provides more engaging options.
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#110 Apr 23 2013 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe i am to spoiled when it comes to story, but the end of an era, was not even impressive to me, it was basically a copy of how death wing sundered azeroth but with FF lore Instead. Tho it looked cool i'll give it that, but i'll take great story telling over graphics any day :/
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#111 Apr 23 2013 at 8:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Maybe i am to spoiled when it comes to story, but the end of an era, was not even impressive to me, it was basically a copy of how death wing sundered azeroth but with FF lore Instead. Tho it looked cool i'll give it that, but i'll take great story telling over graphics any day :/

I agree. Story over graphics! Which is why the older FFs were so great! Graphics maybe lacking but story and music were some of the best imo
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#113 Apr 23 2013 at 9:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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it was basically a copy of how death wing sundered azeroth


That's interesting, I could have sworn that previous Final Fantasy titles featured giant dragons named Bahamut and various end-of-the-world scenarios, including one where the world is razed mid-game.

Maybe the two are actually independent stories after all? Or maybe WoW copied from Final Fantasy?

EDIT: On second thought, maybe nobody copied from anyone, and maybe all these stories just seem similar because good stories share so many common elements?

Edited, Apr 23rd 2013 8:32pm by Thayos
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#114 Apr 23 2013 at 9:38 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
... good stories...

Smiley: lol
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#115 Apr 23 2013 at 10:01 PM Rating: Default
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SaitoMishima wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Maybe i am to spoiled when it comes to story, but the end of an era, was not even impressive to me, it was basically a copy of how death wing sundered azeroth but with FF lore Instead. Tho it looked cool i'll give it that, but i'll take great story telling over graphics any day :/

I agree. Story over graphics! Which is why the older FFs were so great! Graphics maybe lacking but story and music were some of the best imo


This seems odd to me since I have always defended Final Fantasy graphics. The stories were well written, the music masterfully composed, and I have always personally felt the graphics were top notch as well. The landscapes they created were spectacular and, for example in Final Fantasy Viii, as much as people put it down, they did an amazing graphical innovation when they would have real-time cg playing in the background while your character moved freely on the foreground amongst other polygonal rendered objects...almost like a stage with props sporting a green screen as the backdrop. The story in it was great and so was the music. What makes the series special for me, is a combination of great storytelling, moving music, and top notch visuals that deliver an overall gameplay unlike any other. Even though they have lost a bit of that over the years I am wildly optimistic that* A Realm Reborn will become A Franchise Reborn!





*for me
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#116 Apr 24 2013 at 12:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
it was basically a copy of how death wing sundered azeroth


That's interesting, I could have sworn that previous Final Fantasy titles featured giant dragons named Bahamut and various end-of-the-world scenarios, including one where the world is razed mid-game.

Maybe the two are actually independent stories after all? Or maybe WoW copied from Final Fantasy?


They both copied the Bible. Smiley: lol

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#117 Apr 24 2013 at 12:10 AM Rating: Good
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#118 Apr 24 2013 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
SaitoMishima wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Maybe i am to spoiled when it comes to story, but the end of an era, was not even impressive to me, it was basically a copy of how death wing sundered azeroth but with FF lore Instead. Tho it looked cool i'll give it that, but i'll take great story telling over graphics any day :/

I agree. Story over graphics! Which is why the older FFs were so great! Graphics maybe lacking but story and music were some of the best imo


This seems odd to me since I have always defended Final Fantasy graphics. The stories were well written, the music masterfully composed, and I have always personally felt the graphics were top notch as well. The landscapes they created were spectacular and, for example in Final Fantasy Viii, as much as people put it down, they did an amazing graphical innovation when they would have real-time cg playing in the background while your character moved freely on the foreground amongst other polygonal rendered objects...almost like a stage with props sporting a green screen as the backdrop. The story in it was great and so was the music. What makes the series special for me, is a combination of great storytelling, moving music, and top notch visuals that deliver an overall gameplay unlike any other. Even though they have lost a bit of that over the years I am wildly optimistic that* A Realm Reborn will become A Franchise Reborn!





*for me


I think what is meant here is that, making great graphics shouldnt take away from the story. Spending more time more money or focusing only on graphics and then come up lacking in story and music. Though I think we can all agree, even if we dont like XIII, the cinematics were top of the line for its time. SE's graphics are almost always top of the line and high end.
#119 Apr 24 2013 at 8:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
it was basically a copy of how death wing sundered azeroth


That's interesting, I could have sworn that previous Final Fantasy titles featured giant dragons named Bahamut and various end-of-the-world scenarios, including one where the world is razed mid-game.

Maybe the two are actually independent stories after all? Or maybe WoW copied from Final Fantasy?

EDIT: On second thought, maybe nobody copied from anyone, and maybe all these stories just seem similar because good stories share so many common elements?

Edited, Apr 23rd 2013 8:32pm by Thayos

It's funny that Yoshida mentioned his feelings about FFXIV being more like WoW but being a Final Fantasy.
I remember reading some old article from Blizzard stating that Squaresoft is the company they love and are inspired by when it came to building WoW. Hell, some of Blizzard's minigames during some quests are more Final Fantasy than FFXI in the context of being a Final Fantasy.
#120 Apr 24 2013 at 9:14 AM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
it was basically a copy of how death wing sundered azeroth


That's interesting, I could have sworn that previous Final Fantasy titles featured giant dragons named Bahamut and various end-of-the-world scenarios, including one where the world is razed mid-game.

Maybe the two are actually independent stories after all? Or maybe WoW copied from Final Fantasy?

EDIT: On second thought, maybe nobody copied from anyone, and maybe all these stories just seem similar because good stories share so many common elements?

Edited, Apr 23rd 2013 8:32pm by Thayos


Maybe you should play more games, before arguing with me ? Death wing scenario is a complete revision of Karafyrm scenario in EQ1, which btw if you did not play, was a prismatic dragon sealed into a tomb because of his fearsome power, he was dubbed the "Sleeper" and when players awoke him, he literally killed everybody within the entire zone, then went and destroyed everything on his path, and killed the dragon king, and then he just puff, went on his marry way to do some thinking in some cave..... Sounds Familiar.... A recently awoken dragon, destroys anything on it's path... then just vanishes for 5 years...... Hmmm! Interesting!

The differences between Karafyrm, Death Wing and Bahamut are that while karafyrm was the first dragon in a MMO, to be Unsealed and as a result caused destruction, but he only destroyed one zone, and was never used again as an event(Shame Sony!) Death Wing on the other hand, destroyed azeroth as we knew it, just from awakening, and then went and killed a few noobs across the world, giving Blizzard the excuse to reshape the world, that is basically what Bahamut is, the excuse for SE to reshape the world, other than that, is the same story, to the Letter! Now you can argue all you want about X final fantasy, or Y character, all you want, but the fact remains Blizzard did it first and did it better :) Unless you can name me one FF where bahamut was a world destroyer......

Yes nobody copied from anybody, just coincidences that was all Right ? Lmao! White knight... SE could have used the empire instead of behamut to sunder the world, and give it the excuse lore wise it needed, then have the dragons in isthar summon bahamut in ARR to fight the empire back, only to find out that behamut does not follow any mortals orders and BAM! Burns everybody up for giggles and goes into his cave to rethink what he has done, until we kill him for being a bad bad dragon. There are untold ways this could have been handled, yet they did choose one that has been done to death :)

TLTR: Get over it, blizzard did it first.
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#121 Apr 24 2013 at 9:18 AM Rating: Default
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sandpark wrote:
Hell, some of Blizzard's minigames during some quests are more Final Fantasy than FFXI in the context of being a Final Fantasy.



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#122 Apr 24 2013 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
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@Ostia and all those who fear a copy.....everything copies or borrows from everything. As a musician I know that ALL music is built on the ideas that preceded them, movie writers and directors copy the things they find most influential and successful, and game developers are no different. There is RARELY something truly unique and original....and even then it probably borrows like everyone else, only from something more obscure.
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#123 Apr 24 2013 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
SaitoMishima wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Maybe i am to spoiled when it comes to story, but the end of an era, was not even impressive to me, it was basically a copy of how death wing sundered azeroth but with FF lore Instead. Tho it looked cool i'll give it that, but i'll take great story telling over graphics any day :/

I agree. Story over graphics! Which is why the older FFs were so great! Graphics maybe lacking but story and music were some of the best imo


This seems odd to me since I have always defended Final Fantasy graphics. The stories were well written, the music masterfully composed, and I have always personally felt the graphics were top notch as well. The landscapes they created were spectacular and, for example in Final Fantasy Viii, as much as people put it down, they did an amazing graphical innovation when they would have real-time cg playing in the background while your character moved freely on the foreground amongst other polygonal rendered objects...almost like a stage with props sporting a green screen as the backdrop. The story in it was great and so was the music. What makes the series special for me, is a combination of great storytelling, moving music, and top notch visuals that deliver an overall gameplay unlike any other. Even though they have lost a bit of that over the years I am wildly optimistic that* A Realm Reborn will become A Franchise Reborn!

*for me


The problem with FFVIII was, that even tho it's graphics where leaps and bounds beyond what VII pulled, the story was kinda garbage, even tho i loved it's love story, and everything, i have to admit it was very out there in terms of "WTF is this **** real?" good graphics help, but they are not essential to tell a good story, lunar was not ahead of it's time, yet it told an awesome story, Suikoden II was way inferior to VIII or VII or IX, yet it's story was leaps and bounds better, VI should stand no chance againts XIII.... yet we both know which is the better game and has the better storyline :)

This entire generation has been garbage as far as RPGS are concerned to much graphics, horrible story telling and gameplay, the only 3 games that have been any good, are Xenoblade, Last Storie, and Tales of Vesperia.
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#124 Apr 24 2013 at 9:40 AM Rating: Decent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
@Ostia and all those who fear a copy.....everything copies or borrows from everything. As a musician I know that ALL music is built on the ideas that preceded them, movie writers and directors copy the things they find most influential and successful, and game developers are no different. There is RARELY something truly unique and original....and even then it probably borrows like everyone else, only from something more obscure.


There is a huge difference between copying and borrowing some elements and making something new, Death wing scenario was based on the scenario laid in EQ, which was really really underused and not developed, they took the idea of an awakening dragon using a instant Zone Kill Abilitie, and transformed it into an awakening dragon not only destroying the zone in which he awoke from, but the entire world, and used it as an excuse to reshape it's game world, which is what SE did exactly to the letter. You guys are seriously way to defensive about everything, this reminds me of when killua said "They re-used monsters" and everybody jumped at him and called him a lair and a troll Smiley: lol Did they not used the same monsters .dats ? Oh yes they did :) Smiley: lol
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#125 Apr 24 2013 at 9:44 AM Rating: Default
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unfortunately text doesnt convey tone. No defensiveness here merely pointing out a fact. There arent many originals in any form of entertainment. In order to be successful you have to borrow enough from what is popular to make it familiar while adding your own spices, otherwise people just wont give it a chance.

Edited, Apr 24th 2013 12:16pm by electromagnet83
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#126 Apr 24 2013 at 10:06 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Maybe you should play more games, before arguing with me ?


Are you trying to tell me I should play WoW? Why?

"Blizzard did it first?"

So, are you trying to tell me that Blizzard invented the story of a powerful being being sealed away, then unleashed to wreak havoc on the land?

Did Blizzard also invent swords?


EDIT: Just to humor your argument that the WoW Deathwing story is the same as the ARR story, I looked up that storyline to compare. And, fact, THEY ARE NOT AT ALL THE SAME. The only thing similar is they each involve a dragon that alters the landscape. Again, I'm extremely confident in saying that Blizzard did not invent that concept.

Also, you really need to think more about making statements like this:

Quote:
that is basically what Bahamut is, the excuse for SE to reshape the world, other than that, is the same story, to the Letter!


Hate to break the news to you, but the Final Fantasy series may have been the first major gaming franchise to have a world-altering cataclysmic event, and this was when the boys at Blizzard were still in grade school. All the great Final Fantasy storylines center around the heroes attempting to stop a cataclysmic event from happening. And Bahamut, in case you aren't aware, is a significant character in most of the FF games.

So, to suggest that Blizzard totally invented the idea of an ancient dragon destroying the world -- and that Bahamut's role in a FF game is unusual -- is silly.

Edited, Apr 24th 2013 9:20am by Thayos
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