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Crafting in FFXIVFollow

#1 May 01 2013 at 7:48 AM Rating: Default
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speaking of crafting is Alchemy halfway useful in this game?

In FFXI it really wasnt since the only decent thing you got from it was hktk clusters which didnt sell fast/often/.everday because ppl werent going on ohat runs daily and potions/ethers were ever really only need on CoP and again ppl werent doing that everyday.. Alchemy wasnt half as profitable as cooking (ppl always used food) or the crafts that made weapons/armor (because well ppl always needed weapons and armor lol) is Alchemy just like that in FFXIV or does it actually have a greater use now than it did in FFXI?
#2 May 01 2013 at 7:53 AM Rating: Decent
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I dont believe anyone can answer you due to NDA. But im pretty sure they have worked out most the kinks with crafting to make them all useful. Also with the Market board it will help sell/buy so will be much easyer to sell alch items.
#3 May 01 2013 at 7:57 AM Rating: Decent
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well actually they can answer my question because Im was really refering to 1.0 not ARR... since ARR is supopsedly so much better than 1.0 if Im told alchemy was somewhat useful or useful in 1.0 then it would be logical for me to assume on my own that it would be just as useful or better on ARR
#4 May 01 2013 at 8:01 AM Rating: Decent
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The little time i played 1.0 i lvled alch but with the bazaar system the only way i could make money was selling stuff to my friends or stand near the crafting area and shour and hope ppl needed things. At high lvl i ahve no idea how it went but that was my 1.0 experience with alch.

#5 May 01 2013 at 8:05 AM Rating: Decent
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http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Guide:Alchemy_Guide_by_Lilyheart

You can click each item and see what it was used for. Prolly the only way to guess its usefullness
#6 May 01 2013 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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I couldn't get into crafting in 1.0 because it was so **** confusing.

Based on what we've seen in officially released info alone, they've improved the crafting system greatly and alleviated a lot of the confusion.
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#7 May 01 2013 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
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I think a better question to ask would be, what crafts/gathering professions do we think will be the most useful in ARR? I can see logging/woodcutting being important for the eventual shipbuilding they've mentioned, as well as mining for all the ores needed for blacksmith/goldsmith/armorer. If they do it right, all of the crafts should be relatively useful. As long as recipes don't take like 8 tiers of items to make 1 chestpiece, I'll be happy.
#8 May 01 2013 at 9:41 AM Rating: Good
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Alchemy was ok, not great. I imagine it will have a much larger impact in ARR.

I don't think this is breaking NDA, but if it is I'm sorry. But as part of the early questing around Gridania, you are given Potions to help with your soloing, as well as ethers, etc. In 1.0 this wasn't a viable means of sustain in fights, but they seem to emphasis consumable much more in ARR.

The best crafts, for money, were Clothcraft, Goldsmithing, and Armorer. Mainly, this was because these items were commonly used to either create the best materia, or socketted with double and triple melds, often resulting in blowing up everything, making them pretty consumable..

As a Bsm, I could only make gil by creating ingots for Armoring and selling them, as Most people would use Primal Weapons, or Grand Company Weapons. Though, the Relics come from Woodworking and Blacksmithing.

Cooking got the shortest stick though... early food in the game's life, food was useless so it never quite stuck as essential even after it was hugely buffed.

Woodworking did well with Arrows but since arrows are now infinite, that craft is in Limbo..


I made all my money with Mining. I heard Botany was pretty good though. But Mining was a license to print gil, and print I did. I leveled mining strictly for Hamlet, to work towards a relic, but I'm so happy I did.

Edited, May 1st 2013 11:42am by Louiscool
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#9 May 01 2013 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
Alchemy was ok, not great. I imagine it will have a much larger impact in ARR.

I don't think this is breaking NDA, but if it is I'm sorry. But as part of the early questing around Gridania, you are given Potions to help with your soloing, as well as ethers, etc. In 1.0 this wasn't a viable means of sustain in fights, but they seem to emphasis consumable much more in ARR.

The best crafts, for money, were Clothcraft, Goldsmithing, and Armorer. Mainly, this was because these items were commonly used to either create the best materia, or socketted with double and triple melds, often resulting in blowing up everything, making them pretty consumable..

As a Bsm, I could only make gil by creating ingots for Armoring and selling them, as Most people would use Primal Weapons, or Grand Company Weapons. Though, the Relics come from Woodworking and Blacksmithing.

Cooking got the shortest stick though... early food in the game's life, food was useless so it never quite stuck as essential even after it was hugely buffed.

Woodworking did well with Arrows but since arrows are now infinite, that craft is in Limbo..


I made all my money with Mining. I heard Botany was pretty good though. But Mining was a license to print gil, and print I did. I leveled mining strictly for Hamlet, to work towards a relic, but I'm so happy I did.

Edited, May 1st 2013 11:42am by Louiscool


I don't consider it in limbo. Just think about how popular the housing aspect of the game will be. Woodworking will be a big part of making/changing houses.
Also, alchemy was profitable if you had fishing leveled up early. I know people who made a killing fishing up the fish needed to synth crystals/shards and or by synthing crystals/shards themselves and selling those. I can't think of anything more consumable. Also, at the last stage of the game before server shut down, I know those same people had made a lot of money making potions like elixirs or mega potions that increased stats (very similar to food). Alchemy will definitely have it's place in ARR. I'm sure once we get into the content meant for higher levels, we'll see it even more.
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#10 May 01 2013 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Also, alchemy was profitable if you had fishing leveled up early. I know people who made a killing fishing up the fish needed to synth crystals/shards and or by synthing crystals/shards themselves and selling those.


Good point there. I forgot about that. I actually used this method sometimes.

And yeah, WW will have a use, I just meant that we have no idea what it will be or how successful.
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#11 May 01 2013 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
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Also, alchemy was profitable if you had fishing leveled up early. I know people who made a killing fishing up the fish needed to synth crystals/shards and or by synthing crystals/shards themselves and selling those.


Good point there. I forgot about that. I actually used this method sometimes.

And yeah, WW will have a use, I just meant that we have no idea what it will be or how successful.


I'm hoping very successful. It's my highest craft. lol. I leveled it mainly to try and make my own sarnga, but eventually I just purchased one and melded it myself. I got so lucky.... I got it first try. :) I spent all of about 3 mil on 1 NQ bow and 1 tier 4 heaven's eye materia and got it.
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#12 May 01 2013 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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swisa wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
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Also, alchemy was profitable if you had fishing leveled up early. I know people who made a killing fishing up the fish needed to synth crystals/shards and or by synthing crystals/shards themselves and selling those.


Good point there. I forgot about that. I actually used this method sometimes.

And yeah, WW will have a use, I just meant that we have no idea what it will be or how successful.


I'm hoping very successful. It's my highest craft. lol. I leveled it mainly to try and make my own sarnga, but eventually I just purchased one and melded it myself. I got so lucky.... I got it first try. :) I spent all of about 3 mil on 1 NQ bow and 1 tier 4 heaven's eye materia and got it.


WOW.

That's actually why I started leveling Blacksmith, as I planned for Drg Relic but now I'm undecided.. It will depend on how Summoner tickles me, as I love Pet jobs.
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#13 May 02 2013 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
swisa wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Quote:
Also, alchemy was profitable if you had fishing leveled up early. I know people who made a killing fishing up the fish needed to synth crystals/shards and or by synthing crystals/shards themselves and selling those.


Good point there. I forgot about that. I actually used this method sometimes.

And yeah, WW will have a use, I just meant that we have no idea what it will be or how successful.


I'm hoping very successful. It's my highest craft. lol. I leveled it mainly to try and make my own sarnga, but eventually I just purchased one and melded it myself. I got so lucky.... I got it first try. :) I spent all of about 3 mil on 1 NQ bow and 1 tier 4 heaven's eye materia and got it.


WOW.

That's actually why I started leveling Blacksmith, as I planned for Drg Relic but now I'm undecided.. It will depend on how Summoner tickles me, as I love Pet jobs.



Lancer is a fun class/job. I was in love with bard until I experimented with lancer. I tried it only because my LS didn't have enough dedicated dragoons to help with the relic quest. There at the end, I ended up having more playtime on dragoon than bard. Eventually, once I saw how awesome sauce it was in cutter's cry, I started to have trouble deciding if I liked bard or dragoon better. :( I went with the artemis bow for my relic, so I guess I'll have to stick with bard until I can start my 2nd relic. ;)

EDIT: lol I forgot to mention that I decked out my dragoon with all triple melded armor pieces to have all stats maxed out once I finally got the dragoon relic. Now that's it's all changed, it'll be interesting to see how worthless all that gear was that I spent millions of gil on.....

Edited, May 2nd 2013 5:48pm by swisa
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#14 May 06 2013 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Let me get this right... In order to get your relic before you had to have mining lvled? Unless you bought the seals?
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#15 May 06 2013 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:


I heard Botany was pretty good though. But Mining was a license to print gil, and print I did.



On average I was making 500k an hour on Botanist (On a very good day it was more the million mark) most of it coming from harvesting and less so from logs/branches, I was spending most of my days just harvesting / logging (4 hours+ a day)

I enjoyed the system and even had the lag delay down to a fine art, It was second nature to know exactly where the sweetspots were if I missed the first swing. I preferred crafting / gathering than I did anything else, It was the joy of seeing a +1 item appear in the log and knowing you just made 150k easy with little to no effort.

Everything was sellable as well, it was a win win situation.
#16 May 07 2013 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Was that back when item-breaking meld mechanics had the servers burning through mats like crazy? I don't think I've ever played a mmo with that high a native production and consumption level before, it was nuts. Will be interesting to see how they balance gear not going *poof* when they don't meld, and what that does to blacksmith and goldsmith crafts.

Based on dev comments, crafting is now meant to ease transitions into the next tier of content so you don't have to spend so much time repeating the current one to fill out your gear. This is where crafting settled out in rift. You'd use it to speed your twinks up or for new players to catch up to the progression curve of the game faster. With that style of design, it's hard to really make solid money with it because the people with all the money don't need the crafted gear.

I'm wondering if the consumable crafts will be where it's at initially. Food and potions?
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#17 May 10 2013 at 8:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Is there some sort of mini game that goes along with fishing? like in XI so that the bot fishers were kept on the lower side? or is it just drop your bait and wait for a fish?
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#18 May 10 2013 at 8:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mmoderator wrote:
Is there some sort of mini game that goes along with fishing? like in XI so that the bot fishers were kept on the lower side? or is it just drop your bait and wait for a fish?


XI botting is still super easy, they send the rod motions in the data coming from the server, it's easily picked out and translated. I haven't played in a while but fishing in Beaucedine Glacier is a joke, there are SOOOO many AFK'ers there. I'd shoot random tells at them to see if anyone would respond.
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#19 May 10 2013 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:


I heard Botany was pretty good though. But Mining was a license to print gil, and print I did.



On average I was making 500k an hour on Botanist (On a very good day it was more the million mark) most of it coming from harvesting and less so from logs/branches, I was spending most of my days just harvesting / logging (4 hours+ a day)

I enjoyed the system and even had the lag delay down to a fine art, It was second nature to know exactly where the sweetspots were if I missed the first swing. I preferred crafting / gathering than I did anything else, It was the joy of seeing a +1 item appear in the log and knowing you just made 150k easy with little to no effort.

Everything was sellable as well, it was a win win situation.


Same here. When I quit playing all my craft classes were 30-35 while my highest combat class was 20.
#20 May 10 2013 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Do you think yoshi is planning ahead for botting? Cause I really frown apon that bs! ?
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#21 May 10 2013 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
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Botting was super easy in FFXIV as well.

Bots are very complex these days. The best way to combat botting is to de-insentivise it. Either by making it fun, or by making it much less of a grind so that the risk is not worth the reward.

Everything done in FFXI to combat botters only hurt legit players. People gonna cheat, just make it less tempting.
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#22 May 10 2013 at 11:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Trying to combat botting with complexity is the wrong direction for sure. If it's in the code, you can decompile it and find it. People are very good at it, and only get better. I think Louiscool is right.
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#23 May 10 2013 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Trying to combat botting with complexity is the wrong direction for sure. If it's in the code, you can decompile it and find it. People are very good at it, and only get better. I think Louiscool is right.


That's just because of the inevitable evolution of machines. They are becoming more like us with every innovation - no longer are they relegated to crunching numbers and other menials tasks. They can see, can reason, and frankly it's only a matter of time before we have a rebellion of Geth on our hands. Only a matter of time.

Let's see Yoshi-P plan for THAT!
#24 May 11 2013 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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I'll never understand botting. Must be fun letting your computer play the game you bought ;)
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#25 May 11 2013 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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Veagan wrote:
I'll never understand botting. Must be fun letting your computer play the game you bought ;)


A friend of mine in XI said she fish botted because it allowed her to work on her cross stitch while she fished. Smiley: lol
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#26 May 11 2013 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
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Veagan wrote:
I'll never understand botting. Must be fun letting your computer play the game you bought ;)


Botting is usually a symptom of poorly designed progression features. People don't use bots to play for them. They use bots to work for them. The moral of the story for designers should be that if you're going to add a feature, do it right. Granted, that does present a danger of feature creep.
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#27 May 11 2013 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
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Botting is usually a symptom of poorly designed progression features. People don't use bots to play for them. They use bots to work for them. The moral of the story for designers should be that if you're going to add a feature, do it right. Granted, that does present a danger of feature creep.


Yeah, that's definitely true. People bot in order to avoid doing something redundant and unpleasant. At least that's why a player will do it.

RMT on the other hand, do it to make money.

It's that second group that tends to be destructive. The first group can be sorted out with a suspension after getting caught. The second group can't be stopped so easily.

Ironically, open world pvp has been the best method I've seen for getting rid of bots grinding things like fishing or harvesting. When people can just kill them, camp them, AND be performing a public service at the same time, their production per hour goes way down. This isn't really an option in FFXIV since pvp won't work like that, but then we need something else.

Was XI's special task force effective at all?
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#28 May 11 2013 at 4:38 PM Rating: Good
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XI's task force bragged impressive numbers, but the best thing they did was add aggressive high level goblins to roam the popular low-level fishing spots, where level 20 rmts would regularly bot fish.

I'll never forget the pictures of the day this was added, with PILEs of dead bodies in the Valkrum Dunes water.
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#29 May 11 2013 at 4:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Botting is a huge problem in every MMO i have played. Every time i hear from the devs we are doing this to fight bots or do that.But to be honest they can't do anything. These days bots have advanced a lot and they react to any problem accordingly.

Seen a bot in eve online that was one of the most advanced i saw out there since eves way of playing and interface is hard. It would have a set of replies when someone /tell you something or it will go into auto log out or something. Also it monitored the chat and when some words that you have flagged showed up it will go into auto log out. They even made them do moves with the mouse that would look "human" or they will let your ship in a safe place to take a 5min break as a normal human would do. I won't go deeper into why it was advanced but as i said playing in EVE is hard and complex.

My point is there will always be a new bot a better bot a bot you wont be able to find.They evolve alongside the game. From my experience the only way to truly locate a bot is from the community. Not by killing it but by reporting it. A banned user will simple stop playing the game its a win win.
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#30 May 11 2013 at 5:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
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Botting is usually a symptom of poorly designed progression features. People don't use bots to play for them. They use bots to work for them. The moral of the story for designers should be that if you're going to add a feature, do it right. Granted, that does present a danger of feature creep.


Yeah, that's definitely true. People bot in order to avoid doing something redundant and unpleasant. At least that's why a player will do it.

RMT on the other hand, do it to make money.

It's that second group that tends to be destructive. The first group can be sorted out with a suspension after getting caught. The second group can't be stopped so easily.

Ironically, open world pvp has been the best method I've seen for getting rid of bots grinding things like fishing or harvesting. When people can just kill them, camp them, AND be performing a public service at the same time, their production per hour goes way down. This isn't really an option in FFXIV since pvp won't work like that, but then we need something else.

Was XI's special task force effective at all?


Botting isn't difficult to curtail if you simply don't add passive/inactive progression systems. A simple rule for the designer: If it's so easy that a bot can do it repeatedly, it's probably too boring for a player to do it repeatedly! You can still run into problems with active RMT, those who actually play the game, and that's a problem that can ultimately only be solved by undermining the value of the player economy. The extent to which you are willing to do that should depend on the degree to which active RMT are impacting other players, which is, again, a result of design, usually representing resource competition or artificial scarcity.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#31 May 11 2013 at 5:18 PM Rating: Default
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Holy botness botman! there's a bot problem!
#32 May 11 2013 at 7:58 PM Rating: Good
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Crafting needs to stay relevant all the way to the end or it doesn't have a point. It'll be a let down if end game PVE content make all of your crafts worthless causing raiding to be required if you want your character to be able to do anything.
#33 May 11 2013 at 8:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Ueno54 wrote:
Crafting needs to stay relevant all the way to the end or it doesn't have a point. It'll be a let down if end game PVE content make all of your crafts worthless causing raiding to be required if you want your character to be able to do anything.


Crafting also needs to have a point AT ALL for it to be relevant. If it's just a way to earn money, then it's probably a "work" mechanic which only serves to keep players playing longer. Given how little thought they put into their gathering classes, for example, it's hard to imagine that they had any intention of players really enjoying it. I dunno, I'm sure crafting will be fine for making money, equipment, and maybe furnishing player houses, but it is generally an afterthought that is seldom integrated into the game in any meaningful way.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#34 May 12 2013 at 12:02 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Ueno54 wrote:
Crafting needs to stay relevant all the way to the end or it doesn't have a point. It'll be a let down if end game PVE content make all of your crafts worthless causing raiding to be required if you want your character to be able to do anything.


Crafting also needs to have a point AT ALL for it to be relevant. If it's just a way to earn money, then it's probably a "work" mechanic which only serves to keep players playing longer. Given how little thought they put into their gathering classes, for example, it's hard to imagine that they had any intention of players really enjoying it. I dunno, I'm sure crafting will be fine for making money, equipment, and maybe furnishing player houses, but it is generally an afterthought that is seldom integrated into the game in any meaningful way.


I honestly wouldn't hold my breath for them to expect crafting/gathering to be anymore than a way to supply yourself materials and be a way to make money. I say this because Yoshi has mentioned that he plans on making most content be for battle classes and has since stated that we wont be able to create new characters with a starting class outside the battle classes.
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#35 May 12 2013 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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Can't it be fun in its own right?
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#36 May 12 2013 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Can't it be fun in its own right?


In theory, but in practice, eh, not really. The problem is that humans are pattern-recognition machines. We're (mostly) good at it. And that pattern-recognition is also the source of the feedback loops which allow us to have fun. Most any fun experience breaks down into this:

I want -that-. I will do -this-, and see if I can get -that-. Usually when I do -this-, I get the -that- I wanted. But sometimes, I don't! But if I keep trying, I will get -that-!

The fun stems from the things that break from the pattern--the unexpected things that we don't fully understand. It's us trying to get better at getting "that" by uncovering the patterns. As a result, we feel that we are earning, growing, and accomplishing.

When things are too predictable, they're almost guaranteed to be boring (exception: if the person is "vegging out"). If we weren't so good at pattern-recognition, then sure, I could throw the ball a million times and you'd have nearly just as much fun fetching it every time. But for it to be fun in its own right, it needs to have an appropriate measure of complexity, challenge, and uncertainty. Now, since we're talking about features that employ simple decision-making within a relatively narrow scope of possibilities, that's just not going to happen for most people.

And I hate to say it, but that's sort of the way it goes with most entertainment: the less skilled or intelligent you are, the more easily you can enjoy it. This is why children are always so excited about life in our world initially, and why they quickly become bored by it as they age. As you master the consumption of entertainment, it becomes less and less fun in its own right. For a system to be constantly fun in its own right, it needs to scale in difficulty and complexity as you master it. Of course, most systems in life are utilitarian, not necessarily intended to entertain.

So in theory, it could be fun in its own right, but that would require a far more sophisticated system than we'll see in MMO crafting/gathering for a long time.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#37 May 12 2013 at 5:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Most any fun experience breaks down into this: I want -that-. I will do -this-, and see if I can get -that-. Usually when I do -this-, I get the -that- I wanted. But sometimes, I don't! But if I keep trying, I will get -that-!


That's not a description of fun. That's a description of why anyone is motivated to do anything at all.

If you want to understand fun, you have to distinguish it from actions taken for everyday survival. Intuitively, there's a distinction you haven't hit upon. Games are an escape from everyday life. The rules are clearer and simpler, and positive results are easier to come by. This brings about feelings of euphoria and positive feedback much more frequently and predictably than you may otherwise get in the day-to-day grind. In the right measure, it's quite therapeutic and relieves stress.
#38 May 12 2013 at 6:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
Quote:
Most any fun experience breaks down into this: I want -that-. I will do -this-, and see if I can get -that-. Usually when I do -this-, I get the -that- I wanted. But sometimes, I don't! But if I keep trying, I will get -that-!


That's not a description of fun. That's a description of why anyone is motivated to do anything at all.

If you want to understand fun, you have to distinguish it from actions taken for everyday survival. Intuitively, there's a distinction you haven't hit upon. Games are an escape from everyday life. The rules are clearer and simpler, and positive results are easier to come by. This brings about feelings of euphoria and positive feedback much more frequently and predictably than you may otherwise get in the day-to-day grind. In the right measure, it's quite therapeutic and relieves stress.


Fun is merely a subset of motivation: intrinsic motivation reflects fun, while extrinsic motivation reflects work. But at a more discrete level, the only difference between the two is the person's appraisal of what they're doing (how much they want the result). So while it may not seem intuitive, conceptually the similarities between the two are critically important: even play is predicated upon perceived rewards. At a conceptual level, the "why" is the same whether the act is utilitarian or escapist: to get "that." So while there are differences between work and play, there are more similarities.

The distinction is there, however. Play and fun involve a process of discovery which depends upon elements of uncertainty. That's why I included terms like "usually and sometimes." In work, positive results often come easily, predictably, and consistently. But in spite of this, work is (definitively) not fun. Also, note that the rules are not always clearer and simpler: sometimes it is quite the opposite. I think I made all this pretty clear in the paragraphs following the quote.

This is my area of expertise, btw. My trying to make the concepts accessible doesn't reflect a lack of understanding.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#39 May 12 2013 at 9:49 PM Rating: Good
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All I know is that in most games, 1.0 included, crafting is never fun; whatever definition you end up using.

I'd much rather farm/gather than craft. And really that is only tolerable if you like the mindless killing of mobs, though it is an extension of main part of the gameplay.

Whether it be the WoW style - auto craft, or more involving (time consuming) FFXI style crafting, they are both more inefficient (at gaining money gear) and less "fun" than using the combat/gathering mechanics.

A large part of why crafting sucks in most games is the fact that you cannot obtain good gear for your level as most times you'll craft 1000 necklaces, so that you can craft a level 10 piece of gear for yourself. The catch is you're already level 12 and have a really good piece of gear that you bought/random dropped/or got from a quest. By default you craft for others.

Obviously if you were able to craft a cool piece of gear from the get-go, for yourself, you'd probably craft. The act of crafting wouldn't necessarily be more fun, but obtaining that gear would be.

---

Mechanically, 1.0 crafting was OK. But was bogged down by not having an AH and mired in a crappy UI. With some tweaks I can see it mechanically being "more fun" but you still need the component of "return." Getting something immediate (other than EXP) for your time.

I always hear complaints from crafters and never any positives. That mats are hard to come by, that people take advantage of them, that success rates (in games like FFXI) are too low, that you lose money crafting.

...so why do people do it? I've always found it an exercise in masochism.
#40 May 12 2013 at 9:59 PM Rating: Good
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Kierk wrote:
...so why do people do it? I've always found it an exercise in masochism.


Probably because if you find the right niche, crafting can be more profitable than anything else. Case in point, FFXI. There were maxed leatherworkers, goldsmiths, woodworkers, etc. who could basically corner the market because getting a craft to 100 was such an incredible timesink. However, if you actually got to that holy grail (100+6), the return on your investment was pretty amazing. In XI, basically all of the wealthiest people in-game were crafters who had either cornered a market, or developed an understanding with equal level crafters to set a certain price on goods and still make a killing. It wasn't uncommon for top crafters in XI to have excess of 100m gil. That amount was unheard of for a non-crafter. So while the initial grind was unbelievably intimidating, the end result was very lucrative for the savvy crafter. Many other mmo's have had similar results.
#41 May 12 2013 at 11:06 PM Rating: Decent
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I certainly did it for the money in FFXI, but it really depends. In SWTOR, it was something to do between doing other things--the impact on regular progression was pretty small overall, but it was something to do. In GW2, it was mainly a way to level your character effortlessly, even though you ended up wasting money on it.

Crafting is usually not fun because they don't design it to be game-like. It tends to be something that, if you enjoy at all, you enjoy because of the progress towards your goal. The mystique behind crafting in FFXI certainly did it a lot of favors, for better or worse--players like myself feverishly tried to determine if there were special methods to obtain skill ups, or HQs. That was a discovery aspect of it.

Games where your skill with the crafting process actually allows you to produce things which are useful or cosmetically different tend to be much more fun, but without any real complexity or mystery in the process, and without any particularly special rewards, crafting is going to be pretty boring to most people.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
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