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RIFT goes Free-To-Play...Follow

#127 May 17 2013 at 1:09 PM Rating: Excellent



Fun fact, I recently paid to join a gym, even though I already have free memberships at 24 hr fitness and an MMA gym (and I am runner). It's just that the paid gym is a smaller, more personal experience. It is only an extra $15 a month, so why not?
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#128 May 17 2013 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
I am far more motivated by content when there are not cash barriers per the content. With P2P, you get content as the ultimate motivation, and you can get ALL of the content by doing cool things in he game, which is way more fun than paying cash in a cash shop.

In TERA you can either purchase those nifty bunny ears for your character with real money or you can earn enough money to purchase them with gold on the auction. In World of Tanks you can either play 200 games and grind out the experience and credits to unlock and purchase tanks or you can subscribe to a premium account and do it in less time(read: games played). In League of Legends you can grind out the IP to unlock champions over a longer time or you can purchase bonuses to IP to get them in less games played.

There are ways to implement the content so that it's accessible through play or pay. Forgive me if I'm reading you incorrectly, but it sounds like you're making it out to be an ultimatum instead of a choice. The examples above are cake and eat it too because they accommodate either playstyle.

It's kinda like the casual vs hardcore debate. You don't have to have content that only rewards one type of player. Using XI as an example, you have experience bonus rings that have a slightly higher reward for those who can commit the time to leveling a job every day and rings that still reward players who can only play a couple times a week. There isn't any reason (and a few examples of proof) that you can't do it both ways.

Edited, May 17th 2013 3:58pm by FilthMcNasty
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#129 May 17 2013 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
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F2P just runs (most) games into the ground. I'll gladly pay a monthly subscription.
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#130 May 17 2013 at 2:12 PM Rating: Excellent
Filth, that sounds a lot like P2W, which is bad for communities on an entirely different level.
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#131 May 17 2013 at 2:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
Filth, that sounds a lot like P2W, which is bad for communities on an entirely different level.



I must admit that Tera Rising has in fact a good F2P model if what i saw so far is correct. Meaning you have access to everything and everyone. The things you pay i believe are for like more bank slots lower ah taxes and outfits. Oh and you can only have like 2 slots per server or something.

But can't be 100% yet since i only just started it and don't know if ill keep playing it.

Edited, May 17th 2013 5:00pm by Teravibe
#132 May 17 2013 at 3:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wait wait, i just checked their store. It seems it is a kind of P2W. They have in store xp boosts as well as gold boost from killing monsters and also reputation boosts.
#133 May 17 2013 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
Exp boost is not pay to win.... Buying armor from the cash shop with money would be pay to win
#134 May 17 2013 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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So someone "stealing" his way to max level and gaining 10 times more than you in gold and could afford more stuff from the AH is not P2W? Well if the term is not correct ok i guess but in my eyes as a personal opinion is a kind of P2W.
#135 May 17 2013 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know how this thread ended up from F2P to shady users?
Yoshi stated at least at the outset, this game will be P2P. Some may not like it but it just has to be dealt with.
If the sub numbers are nowhere near where they want them. I am willing to bet that SE will explore other avenues of payment models.
Maybe instead of shunning P2P or FTP. We should speak of what type of payment models we would like, should the worst case scenario happen.
#136 May 17 2013 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
Teravibe wrote:
So someone "stealing" his way to max level and gaining 10 times more than you in gold and could afford more stuff from the AH is not P2W? Well if the term is not correct ok i guess but in my eyes as a personal opinion is a kind of P2W.


There are lots and lots of ways developers give "Boosted EXP' for free, rested exp es boosted exp in a sense, as for gold, it makes no difference, you only get a few gold more from killing creeps, nobody in MMO is making tons of gold from farming creeps, they make tons of money from farming mats, also boosted exp only affects leveling up, which it's on itself not the primary goal of an MMO, is only a stepping stone.
#137 May 17 2013 at 3:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Teravibe wrote:
So someone "stealing" his way to max level and gaining 10 times more than you in gold and could afford more stuff from the AH is not P2W? Well if the term is not correct ok i guess but in my eyes as a personal opinion is a kind of P2W.


There are lots and lots of ways developers give "Boosted EXP' for free, rested exp es boosted exp in a sense, as for gold, it makes no difference, you only get a few gold more from killing creeps, nobody in MMO is making tons of gold from farming creeps, they make tons of money from farming mats, also boosted exp only affects leveling up, which it's on itself not the primary goal of an MMO, is only a stepping stone.



You simplify things a lot. Free xp boost exist yes but if you pay you get the free boost PLUS the payed one so i do know why you mentioned that. As for how much gold they make i do not know that for sure. I mean i am pretty sure they are farminng for xp so it wouldn't surprise me if they also farm for gold in higher levels, unless you played Tera and know for a fact that it is not profitable then i have nothing to say on that except the fact that the boost is totally useless and shouldn't be there.
#138 May 17 2013 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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I know it doesn't fully translate, but....

Dust514 is free to download. There is a download pack for $100 that gives you lots of stuff, and another for $100 that gives you 225k in game currency. So $200 to 'unlock' all the goodies from the start. Let's translate that to a P2P game. I could buy FFXIV for PS3, and get 10 months give or take of sub time. It's not hard to see which one is the better value.

Has anyone ever added up how much all the cash shop items are in the F2P games out there right now. Maybe GW2 to start with?
#139 May 17 2013 at 6:55 PM Rating: Default
Teravibe wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Teravibe wrote:
So someone "stealing" his way to max level and gaining 10 times more than you in gold and could afford more stuff from the AH is not P2W? Well if the term is not correct ok i guess but in my eyes as a personal opinion is a kind of P2W.


There are lots and lots of ways developers give "Boosted EXP' for free, rested exp es boosted exp in a sense, as for gold, it makes no difference, you only get a few gold more from killing creeps, nobody in MMO is making tons of gold from farming creeps, they make tons of money from farming mats, also boosted exp only affects leveling up, which it's on itself not the primary goal of an MMO, is only a stepping stone.



You simplify things a lot. Free xp boost exist yes but if you pay you get the free boost PLUS the payed one so i do know why you mentioned that. As for how much gold they make i do not know that for sure. I mean i am pretty sure they are farminng for xp so it wouldn't surprise me if they also farm for gold in higher levels, unless you played Tera and know for a fact that it is not profitable then i have nothing to say on that except the fact that the boost is totally useless and shouldn't be there.


You are complaining about Pay to Win being akin to Free to Play. My point is, that may pay to play games, already offer free bonus EXP for example, in different forms, somebody paying 3-5 bucks for it, would not brake the game, and would not affect you in the slightest.... On the contrary the developer is making extra money, more money, more updates, more updates, hopefully a more bug free, and balanced game, and content patches :) I do not agree with XIV being F2P, but there are stuff they can borrow from a F2P model like blizzard has done to a point.
#140 May 17 2013 at 8:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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XP boosts are a normal cash shop item. I'm pretty sure they're in all of them.

Paying for Excalibur is pay to win. Paying for that set of Legendary Obsidian Dragon Armor +15 on the cash shop is pay to win. Paying to level slightly faster is only pay to win if you consider character level to be the greatest determining factor in a player's power.

Ostia is....
is....
damnit...

Ostia is .......... right.

Smiley: glare
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#141 May 17 2013 at 9:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, league is also pretty great with it's f2p system. The community sucks, but I've spent about 50 bucks on just skins and various other things, but they limit any items that would help you win to in-game currency earned by playing.
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#142 May 17 2013 at 9:55 PM Rating: Good
Louiscool wrote:
Yeah, league is also pretty great with it's f2p system. The community sucks, but I've spent about 50 bucks on just skins and various other things, but they limit any items that would help you win to in-game currency earned by playing.


I was actually gonna bring Legue as an example of F2P done right, the game is totally free, and there is nothing you can buy, that gives you an edge over somebody that does not pay a dime. There are little elements that can be implemented on XIV, and eventually they will, i bet money that sooner or later, there will be a pet/mount for sale :) You can count on that.
#143 May 17 2013 at 10:30 PM Rating: Excellent
I'd rather they take XI's approach and sell a stuffed animal in real life for $20 that comes with a code for a pet mount.

I don't mine paying money for real life goods that come with matching virtual toys. At least that way if the game goes belly up in five years, I still have a tangible good.

(I love my chirping chocobo chick!)

Edited, May 18th 2013 12:31am by Catwho
#144 May 17 2013 at 10:43 PM Rating: Excellent
#145 May 17 2013 at 11:03 PM Rating: Decent
100 layoffs please stop the presses!!! F2P market has crashed XD!
#146 May 18 2013 at 12:04 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
I'd rather they take XI's approach and sell a stuffed animal in real life for $20 that comes with a code for a pet mount.


Yeah, this is cool!

I don't mind items being sold by gaming companies, but I just don't want that to be the primary business model of the game. I want the vast majority of all rewards -- whether it's exp, gil, items, skins, epic gear, whatever -- to be earned in the game. A few bonus items here and there (as more of something special for fans) is totally cool.
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#147 May 18 2013 at 12:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Filth, that sounds a lot like P2W, which is bad for communities on an entirely different level.


Teravibe wrote:
So someone "stealing" his way to max level and gaining 10 times more than you in gold and could afford more stuff from the AH is not P2W? Well if the term is not correct ok i guess but in my eyes as a personal opinion is a kind of P2W.


The issue here is people's definition of pay to win. P2W is a term reserved for items that are only available through the cash shop that are better than what is available to players who play the game normally. An example would be a super strength materia that is of a higher quality than anything you could obtain playing the game. Buying a relic weapon that has all of the stats a normal relic has with an added augment of your choice. Buying a buff for your character that allows you to do more damage, take less damage or otherwise outperform people who weren't spending real money.

Almost all of the buffs and perks in the games I mentioned do nothing more than either make an aesthetic change in your characters appearance or shorten the time it takes you to accrue the experience or currency needed to unlock the exact same things you could unlock by playing the game normally. Not pay to win.

The only exception to this would be the vehicles in World of Tanks that are only available through the gift shop. The difference there is that you are matched up against other players in PvP according to the tier of the vehicle you play and at best, premium vehicles are on par with their even tier counterparts. Most of them are watered down versions that get a slight bonus to money generation. Most people who purchase these tanks don't do it because they dominate the battlefield, but because they earn money slightly faster and allow you to purchase the same crews, equipment and modules that everyone else uses.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#148 May 18 2013 at 12:25 AM Rating: Decent
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
I'd rather they take XI's approach and sell a stuffed animal in real life for $20 that comes with a code for a pet mount.


Yeah, this is cool!

I don't mind items being sold by gaming companies, but I just don't want that to be the primary business model of the game. I want the vast majority of all rewards -- whether it's exp, gil, items, skins, epic gear, whatever -- to be earned in the game. A few bonus items here and there (as more of something special for fans) is totally cool.


So like a Blizzard approach ? Only sell a few mounts/pets on special occasions etc etc. Nothing groundbreaking etc etc.

P.S: I only mentioned blizzard because that is the only company i know to have done it right, i have no idea if this was done in FFXI correctly.
#149 May 18 2013 at 12:41 AM Rating: Decent
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4,175 posts
Ostia wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
I'd rather they take XI's approach and sell a stuffed animal in real life for $20 that comes with a code for a pet mount.


Yeah, this is cool!

I don't mind items being sold by gaming companies, but I just don't want that to be the primary business model of the game. I want the vast majority of all rewards -- whether it's exp, gil, items, skins, epic gear, whatever -- to be earned in the game. A few bonus items here and there (as more of something special for fans) is totally cool.


So like a Blizzard approach ? Only sell a few mounts/pets on special occasions etc etc. Nothing groundbreaking etc etc.

P.S: I only mentioned blizzard because that is the only company i know to have done it right, i have no idea if this was done in FFXI correctly.


The Tidal Talisman and the furniture for the Piano Collections CD come to mind. Blizzard does these a lot and many times the proceeds go toward some type of charity. I remember picking up the pet that proceeds went to Red Cross for victims of the earthquake and tsunami in Japan. Obviously SE was affected by the tragedy and couldn't respond the same way, but it would be nice to see more things like this from SE.

____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#150 May 18 2013 at 12:41 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
So like a Blizzard approach ? Only sell a few mounts/pets on special occasions etc etc. Nothing groundbreaking etc etc.


Yes, that would be OK by me. Seasonal stuff, or anniversary items... and any in-game items should be so slight that hardcore players wouldn't even want to equip in the game, unless they were just hanging out around town.

FFXI had some kind of trinket that unlocked a code for a similar in-game item that had like 10 free teleports... things like that. Virtually meaningless. The real benefit would be the real-world item, and not any lasting in-game benefit.


EDIT: That said, with that feature, the game would have to be P2P in order to be profitable, with that kind of "vendor" activity being purely supplemental profit for SE.



Edited, May 17th 2013 11:42pm by Thayos
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#151 May 18 2013 at 12:47 AM Rating: Decent
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
So like a Blizzard approach ? Only sell a few mounts/pets on special occasions etc etc. Nothing groundbreaking etc etc.


Yes, that would be OK by me. Seasonal stuff, or anniversary items... and any in-game items should be so slight that hardcore players wouldn't even want to equip in the game, unless they were just hanging out around town.

FFXI had some kind of trinket that unlocked a code for a similar in-game item that had like 10 free teleports... things like that. Virtually meaningless. The real benefit would be the real-world item, and not any lasting in-game benefit.


EDIT: That said, with that feature, the game would have to be P2P in order to be profitable, with that kind of "vendor" activity being purely supplemental profit for SE.



Edited, May 17th 2013 11:42pm by Thayos


Well that is my point, FFXIV could have a cash shop of sorts, but just for stuff like that, for extra income, nothing ground breaking etc etc. I have never advocated F2P btw.
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