Expectations Too High?Follow

Let me preface by saying I haven't played WoW in over 3 years... however, when I did play, there was plenty of content that wasn't pathetically easy. ICC in it's prime was actually quite challenging, especially the "Hard Mode". Perhaps they've completely dumbed the game down since, but I'm more apt to believe that it's just common misconception where people associate WoW with easy mode. I don't think there's ever been an interview or piece of information that would indicate that the endgame in ARR will be easy. In fact, it seems quite the opposite. Crystal Tower and Maze of Bahamut don't sound like easy content to me. They sound like stuff that will require quite a bit of progression to even enter and have a chance of beating.

If it's anything like the videos I saw of 1.0 before servers went down, I don't think it will be all that forgiving. Some of those battles look like they required quite a bit of coordination and timing. Hopefully that is continued over to ARR.

In terms of how 2.0 relates to 1.0 I think it will be a success.. In terms of how it stands against other MMOs I think it will be a solid entry but by no means innovative. Which is fine for me because I don't play every MMO that comes out. I only stick to FF MMOs (aside from a 2 month stint of Cabal which I loved the over the top attacks lol). I have found that the more MMOs and games you play the harder it is to keep that magic and newness. Kinda like drugs lol. Always looking for that first high. That first newness experience like me and my first rpg FF7. Its harder to enjoy MMOs when you've played so many. Its not new for you anymore.. So I make it a point not to play too many MMOs.

Sorry got a little off track lol.

Yeah, I know, though I'm mostly talking about pre-end game. Most players will shape their opinions of the game before they reach the level cap.

Edited, May 28th 2013 9:59pm by Dizmo

Gotcha. Unfortunately, that's just the trend with mmo's where the leveling process seems to have been cast aside in favor of a compelling endgame (minus swtor, which is the reverse). I'm hoping ARR can achieve somewhat of an equilibrium, and I do think it's possible given the number of different activities available. I'm hopeful anyways.

That's not optimism, or it's a very jaded view of it at best. At it's core, optimism is about interpreting events and situations with the best possible outcome, and I find it hard to believe that death and starvation are a best possible outcome in any situation. I think we both know that. At least, I hope we both do...



That's not statistics either. Statistics are based on a probability of an outcome based on numbers/data. What data are you talking about? The game hasn't been released, it's not even in the 3rd stage of beta yet where 2/3 of the content is being added. Since there is really no current data, you can only make an uneducated guess. You're predictions are not based on facts. They are based on past opinions from yourself and possibly others you've found with a similar viewpoint as yourself. Even if it were the majority, it is not fact, and I think/hope you know it.



I'm sorry, is the narrative no longer part of the gameplay of a game? When did that happen? Last I checked, gameplay entails pretty much the entirety of the game. If we are going by the actual definition of the word, gameplay means the plot of a video game and the way in which it is played. If the two are separate, perhaps you should have used a different term or better defined the parameters of gameplay so that others would know what you are trying to infer.



I don't feel I'm trying to infer anything. You yourself pointed out that there have been very few games in recent memory that you have considered good. I'm not going to go digging through threads, but I distinctly remember you making that assessment when someone asked you that very question. Speculation is one thing, trying to pass it off as statistical proof is another.


Edited, May 29th 2013 7:35am by BartelX

I always thought that when people mention gameplay they mean the actual game mechanics, ie. not the story, graphics, socialisation elements.

Basically the rules of the game that give rise to challenge, and implementation thereof. The bits that differentiate it from being a 3D chat room/visual novel.

The draw for me to FFXI and XIV is that you can level every job on the same character. I remember trying WoW after having played XI for a while and being annoyed that you could only pick one job and that was it.

You're missing my point. You're attributing to optimism/pessimism what is merely an attempt at prediction/speculation. That suggests that FFXIV's success or failure has personal meaning to you. To me, it doesn't. I would like for it to succeed, but am not invested either way. If it fails, it won't bother me the least little bit. Ergo, it's not pessimism.

Optimism, btw, is not about predicting the best outcome to a situation. It is merely taking a positive (or even non-negative) point of view on the situation. For me, if FFXIV is an awful mess, my life will be completely unharmed, which is a positive point of view. It's a well-studied quality in the positive psychology movement, which incidentally is related to my own field of the study of play.



There is data about the game mechanics. It is not finalized, but it is within a finalized window. It will not deviate drastically from what we already know, which, if what we already know is rather similar to most other games (which it is), then we can consider it generic. That data about the game mechanics DOES convey a probability, whether you would like to acknowledge it or not. It does not paint a complete picture in any way--a generic game can even be a smashing success depending on excellent execution of the concept.

Statistical prediction does not require all the data to be complete--by definition, it is used when the data is incomplete. We have complete data on many other MMOs. But really, all I was saying is that statistically speaking, most things are very average--i.e., mediocre. You've seen a bell curve before? Roughly 65% of games are going to be mediocre by default. A 6/7 in game ratings is not to scale, afterall. Realistically, a 6/7 is a 5.



Design-wise, the narrative is a distinct incentive structure that isn't considered a part of the gameplay for one simple reason: we use it to refer to the part of the game you don't PLAY. While gameplay should tie into the narrative to produce a cohesive experience, players watch or read story. They don't play it. So in that regard, no, narrative is not considered part of the gameplay. Gameplay refers specifically to the challenging interactive mechanisms of the game, whether they require reflexive or strategic problem solving.





Then you completely misunderstood the point I was making (or more likely, you don't understand statistics). Statistics are used for speculation. They predict things, but do not generally prove things.

Also, I only said that I hadn't played any good games in recent memory, but I don't play many games to begin with. I know that there are excellent games being made. Based on the information I have, I simply have no reason to believe that FFXIV will be excellent, or even very good. It could be, but that is not what I'm predicting.

Hopefully all of this will help you understand where I'm coming from a bit better. I'd rather not get into another blow-by-blow about it, at least.

I've decided to move this to PM, since I doubt anyone in the forum cares about our views on statistics and optimism.

The only thing I'm going to keep here is this:



It's interesting how whenever someone doesn't agree with you, they are just missing your point or too stupid to understand... it couldn't possibly be that we just have differing opinions on the matter.

Edited, May 29th 2013 10:35am by BartelX

I was just imagining Wint reading my 8 paragraph rant and the wrath that might follow.



Edited, May 29th 2013 10:41am by BartelX

Someone please insert an emo gif here.. Your post with the added mention of wanting Dark Knight.. it all makes so much sense now.

Edited, May 29th 2013 11:40am by Louiscool

Just to touch on something kachi and X touched on, Gameplay is everything in an MMO, it's the meat of the game, if it is mediocre, the rest of the experience is affected by it. Do not dismiss gameplay in a MMO as a backseat element to story telling.