MMO's do NOT work in the U.S.Follow

I think you're forgetting a little thing called project Titan.

This is my point exactly.

When your goal is to maximize profits this is what happens. Though it's not surprising, you see an ever expanding market in Asia and how ridiculous profits can be; why wouldn't you do this (as a company).

This then isn't a problem with MMOs or any other type of game, but rather how stale developers have become and speaks more about the state of the industry than anything else.

Just because you (generally) can't be innovative to find ways to be successful and profitable in other ways, doesn't mean its the genre's fault.

Ironically or coincidentally this is what happened to SE. JRPGs were never really popular here in the states, so what did SE do when they almost completely fell out of favor?

They bought companies like Eidos and became more of a publisher than developer. Well that and rehash FFVII spinoffs.

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I don't know why but these sorts of dichotomies seem to be magnified in the gaming industry. Where it's profits over creativity. Yes, I know it exists, especially in other industries, like the music industry specifically. Maybe it exists because of the sheer complexity of games and the development costs to create a truly good game is so high, comparatively. That, and how difficult it is to get traction in the industry, especially if you're appealing to a niche group.

Whatever the case it's disheartening.

We probably shouldn't rely on large developers too much. If they don't expect a game will reach mass appeal with millions of subs they won't even bother, which leaves little scope for innovation and creation of rich, challenging games unless they have people at the top who really understand the problems with the genre and are willing to take risks.

Though, listening to the EQ3 developers' interviews, it sounds like they realised mid-development that making another generic MMO would just flop again, and decided to start again from scratch, so I guess all hope isn't lost. Maybe Blizzard had similar reasons for doing a complete overhaul of Titan...

Edited, Jun 2nd 2013 12:44am by Dizmo

I see, that's a huge bummer. Then again, if things pan out for XIV, I won't be paying much attention to any gaming news for a while :p

Edited, Jun 2nd 2013 12:54am by Transmigration

I think if they offered it I would probably roll on a RP server. I think it's probably where I'd find the most like minded people.

But yeah. If you're not head shot mobile app friends list buddy time shoot em up you're not selling games any more. Oh and by the way now offering DLC in app purchasing credits of goodness. BLEH

All I can say is, "thank you". This brief statement sums up what I believe.

On another note, there aren't many video games (MMO or otherwise) which capture my interest anymore. Probably part of getting old. I loved Starcraft and Warcraft 1&2 but most strategy games now lack appeal because they are all the same or have very similar elements. It was the story in most games that has captured my interest and loyalty. This hope for a good compelling story is what has kept me here and playing XIV since launch. Some might argue my sanity but I agree with other posts. We keep coming back to Square Enix because when we were kids the story and characters from FFIV, FFVI, and VII captured our interest and in sequence won our loyalty.

Horizontal content does not work. Guild Wars 2 for the most part attempted this when every quest and action essentially became backwards compatible. It suffered HUGE backlash in the fact that there was no direct endgame waiting for you there, and eventually had to install Fractals to satiate that desire.

Speaking plainly, Horizontal content works only at the endgame and only then in niche markets. FFXI was a standing example on how horizontal content with sidegrades could sustain a niche audience for quite a long time. And I'm somewhat surprised why Yoshida went for the strict progress route. (Honestly, perhaps it was a bid for time. A year is a short time to develop a fully flushed horizontal endgame. FFXI developed theirs over several.)

I flatly won't argue the concept of MMOs doomed to fail. It's silly and contrite. As far as MMOs are concerned, overinflated expectations are the only things that really hamper them. World of Warcraft got lucky in an incredible number of ways and the developers are aware of that. There are simply too many MMOs in the market now for anyone to duplicate that success.

To me, it feels like the gentleman in the article is trying to apply metrics that frankly haven't adapted to a new paradigm (I'll translate that to English, never fear).

I'd like to use cars as a stand-in for MMOs.

In the 50's, GM had more than 50% marketshare in US automobiles. (citation, http://www.cnbc.com/id/30962998). That is to say, 1 of every 2 cars being sold was a GM car. At the time, the market was relatively small, with only a few domestic manufacturers and very little foreign entrance.

Fast forward to 2012, and that market share is under 20% (citation, http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2011/1202_u_s_markets_share_for_the_top_five_automakers/). The market is quite packed, strong domestic and international competition. Automobile designs are now high segmented to the point where a person can shop for exactly the vehicle they want, not necessarily be stuck with the options any given single company offers.

The fool would say GM is dying because they lost 30% of the market. A wise man would seek to turn 20% into a success story.

SE provided it's own counterargument to Mr. Zelnick just in the game referenced in the initial post; FFXI. FFXI was never a bazillion player runaway success (read: unlike GM, they never hit 50%+ market share). However, it has turned into SE's most profitable game (citation, http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/24/the-most-profitable-final-fantasy-of-all-time-is). SE was able to find success within a smaller market share.

Declaring MMOs dead because they can't hit the sales that WoW hit is like declaring every auto company in the world a failure because they can't hit the old GM market share.

At the same time, you can't keep designing gas guzzlers and expect to compete with efficient cars once gas goes up in price. Recognize the market your in or you struggle.

Part of why I feel that MMOs have been struggling is that game developers are trying to apply lessons in non-MMO games to MMO development. How often do we look at CoD4 and think that it's just a slightly prettier version of CoD3 with updated maps. After all, the game only has to hold over until CoD5 comes out.

Trying to design MMOs that are flashier and shinier and prettier is all well and good, but a population built on that is on unstable footing. Someone will be able to make a flashier, shinier, prettier game next year. Gameplay and story are things not necessarily limited by the next big hardware/software breakthrough, so you can compete with newer games on equal footing. EQ, FFXI, even WoW (I did play it for a while, but never got attached to it) are all not the prettiest things on the market, but people still play them.

I want to share one way SE could expand upon Chocobos in ARR. We already have them as mounts and combat companions in the standard PvE game. Since the art assets are already in place for them, why not spread it to other areas.
1.Player controlled chocobo jousting leagues with a tournament every three months.
2.Chocobo digging.
3.Different breeds of chocobo, some that run, some that swim, some that fly in special quests or zones.
4.Player controlled chocobo racing leagues with a tournament every three months.
5.Chocobo raising.
6.Different tiers of chocobos, maybe the most coveted is the silver chocobo which moves faster than the other breeds.
7.The evil chocobo forest quest line.

Not all in one shot, one expansion or huge patch at a time.

Oh there is still nerds just less than the common man. Hence why FPS and action games sell more usually. Most of the nerds are busy creating the games versus playing them lol. I'm a closet nerd....

You know, I love these articles.

"Only two MMOs have been successful."

Orly?





I could sit here all day and show that companies are making money in the space. Are there ones failing? Sure, but most are WoW clones that were trying to kill WoW by being better at being WoW than WoW was. I mean, we're in an era where selling millions of units can be considered a failure because companies are not planning their budgets appropriately. "Success" seems to be a vary odd word to use.

Maybe he should said, "No MMO has successfully turned into a ginormous, endless money-making machine with the exception of WoW and Everquest."

Edited, Jun 2nd 2013 5:51pm by Pawkeshup

Swtor did this quite well also. Although they still had fetch quests, they were masked by so much story that it really didn't matter. I think you CAN mix in the generic quests, as long as they actually have a compelling reason behind them. For instance, kill 10 rats because they are vermin is silly... however if it's something like "The rats have gotten into toxic waste and are mutating and procreating at an alarming rate. Please go to this area, kill as many as you can find, and destroy their breeding grounds", I'm much more apt to enjoy that quest, as it at least gives me a compelling reason to do the quest. And if that leads into another quest chain where I have to find the source of the toxic waste and eliminate it, all the better.

yeah that works too.

You know ive also been thinking about this since i wrote my last post, and what i think is missing from the story and quests from other MMO's are emotion. FFXI did that well by how the characters reacted, and the cutscenes. But since playing tera and aion and a few others, a lot of things are done by a simple wall of text. Sure i can read and gather everything i need to know from the text boxes, but they just don't feel real. It doesn't feel like the characters matter, even if they play a large roll or not.

Since XI was my first MMO it may have spoiled me a bit...but SE was always good at their story telling. I never played SWTOR but ive heard good things on that end though.