Battle System changes interview and 700k beta testersFollow

About a week ago, Ostia and I had a debate about whether BLM and WHM would be the same as every other class. I would like to reference that discussion and the comment above regarding the only change being exclusion of some abilities from the GCD.

First up, the changes described in the link show BLM to be quite different where spamming one spell is certainly not going to help. Whilst I am not completely clear on how this is going to work, spamming the same skill will cost significant MP and so will not be the best way to play the class.

Regarding changes, you omit to recognise the chaining referenced for PUG, the positioning referenced for other jobs and the wholesale changes to Mob AI and the use of weapon skills, the dynamic way we will be expected to move around to avoid attacks etc.

Whilst none of this is ground breaking in itself - it is completely different to the combat in alpha, beta 1 and beta 2. It shows a progression in the right direction. Right now surely that can only be a good thing even if it is not perfect in beta 3.

MMO's do tend to get better with time as things are balanced but these changes are fairly wholesale from a very simplified base.

If you watched the ps3 ui video just posted today they mention rotations and positions for dmg . It seems way more fun than spam 1,1,1,1,3,1. Gotta watch Ur camera angles where the mob is how Ur timers are what buff you need if you need mana, and so on . I can't wait!!!

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 10:36pm by silverhope

No, it didn't.

Do you know how to make gear macro swaps for weaponskills/job abilities/spells? If yes, then grats, you've mastered combat in FFXI. You auto-attacked for TP, then expended it. Occassionally you'll use an ability for a boost that's on a 2/3/5 minute timer but other than that it's all about minimizing your TP cycle (through Store TP and haste/DW Delay) and maximizing damage on a weaponskill.

What's so hard about that?



No, you're trying to look at it through nostalgia. FFXI's got the most simplistic combat system I've ever seen in an MMO; it's brain-dead simple to pickup.

Figuring out the optimal gearsets for an ability/TP/etc.? That's where the work comes in, but it's been done through spreadsheets for quite a while now. So it's plug-and-match with what you have. That's hardly "skillful".

P.S. Attempting to not interrupt your autoattack was a delusion: it doesn't matter when you timed the ability the game re-calculated your delay no matter when you used it.


Edited, Jun 12th 2013 10:48pm by Viertel

Not arguing Ostia - just disagreeing with you.

No point "arguing" over things which are clearly a matter of opinion.

I could have lived with the game with the phase 2 combat mechanics. I didn't think it was perfect but I could have lived with it. Based on what you have been saying (writing) for several weeks, you couldn't live with it. Hopefully the changes are enough to get you enthused about the release of the game and excited to play on release.

At the end of the day, those of us planning to play are hoping for a thriving and ongoing community which is more likely the more people play.

If you don't like phase 2 then I might start agreeing with you that we are getting too close to release for their to be major change after this.

You say that but the fact is that nobody has every been publicly banned from windower and it is the most widely used program in the PC community. to the point where it's almost unheard of not to use it at this point.

I'd rather not waste my time arguing against the rose tint of an 11 year old game. Skill did not exist in FFXI. Preparedness did.

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 11:10pm by Hyrist

I don't know if FFXI required skill, but it certainly required your attention and effort.

Aside from gear and gear swapping, you definitely did have to do a lot of micromanaging and pay attention to different things, and certain activities could be very hectic. It was definitely not easy.

You guys want to revise history by saying that the only thing needed to be good at FFXI was gear swapping, and that's just not true. It took effort. You can play ARR high, drunk, with your eyes closed, holding the controller with your feet (in phase 2).

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 11:28pm by Killua125

I'll agree that FFXI required your attention. I should know being a dedicated Red mage from NA release to shortly after Abyssea finished up.

I'd say that FFXI was more unforgiving than requiring skill. The windows for most of the stun rotations were sizeable, the mechanics of the fights themselves were very simple to understand, aside from Absolute Virtue and Pandamonium Warden, which players never really understood and just powerhoused their way through it once the power creep had surpassed them.

But you could say that 1.xx's system was just as unforgiving. Diddn't Kill all the Moggles, King Mob Wiped you.

Two Nails still up? Ifirit wiped you.

Failed to protect the pillars in Garuda fight? You were a dead adventurer.

You guys want to complain that 'omg ARR is such a snooze'. I'd question how far you got into Betas 1 and 2. The first Dungeon? The Second?

First dungeon if you diddn't pay attention to hate ordering, you diddn't even get to the boss fight before wiping once, due to the large fight on the last rosary pickup. The boss fight itself? Periodicly immune to damage until you realize there was an inconspicuous imp responsible for the shielding.

Toto Rak? If you did not attack the tail and kill it, you wiped to poison damage. That was pre level 30 fight. At level 30 in FFXI you faced the same exact boss regardless of your affiliation in FFXI. An Airman, and a Dark Dragon. (which you could take on as a part of level 23s and win). It was a straight out tank and spank so long as you weren't a multiple of level 5.

I will reiterate what the problem was for Phase 1 and 2. The monsters were alpha holdovers. Simple as that. They're easy, and that's cheapening the depth o the combat. Yoshida says he's adjusting it, but I doubt it'll ever be FFXI hard in the field. Boss fights, however, I fully expect to be more fun than FFXI. 1.xx's were pretty incredible, especially the later ones. ARR's early fights are already showing some of that luster, albeit, toned down for lower level groups.

And to be honest, having awareness over 'skill' (which is really hard to define in an RPG genere anyways) is usually a better thing anyways.

I really want to cite United We Stand as my favorite 1.xx fight in the game, it really did bring out what I like the most in a party encounter: Multiple objectives.

The primary objective was to destroy the transmitter, but it's shielded, and guarded by a powerful Mech boss. The Mech boss, however, could be kited, but it would switch hate onto the person with the most hate on the shield generators when the generator was destroyed.

Additionally, enemy reinforcements keep pouring through the door to keep you needing to fight enemies constantly.

There was multiple solutions to how to do it. Fighting the Mech full on and just take care of the adds on the way, and then focus on the generators with only the soldiers to worry about. or rotate kiting the Mech and holding off the soldiers while whittling the transmitter down.

It was multifaceted, required both thinking and reaction, and was variable depending on your party set up. And it was sooo much fun to do.

I really do hope they add more objective based fights in the storyline like that one.

Ok, I'll concede on multitasking.

Haste Rotation, Refresh Rotation, Regen Rotation, Cures, maintaining Debuffs, swapping, and, if you were good enough, yes, even Meleeing and Skillchaining (and bursting if you had the free MP.)

There was lots of multitasking to be done on RDM. That's why I loved the class so much. You were always active in some way in a game that was fairly passive otherwise.

FFXIV's core gameplay isn't passive, however. Less micromanagement of gear, more micromanagement of actions your character takes. Same level of awareness is needed to preform well, but the game was more forgiving of mistakes or poor playing in the earlier beta phases. Let's see if that changes up.

BLEH! You can keep your United We Stand, lol. I'd rather take on To Kill a Raven 10x before another United We Stand. I guess it just goes to show that 1/7 tries for United We Stand took a toll on me.

I am going to take sides on this. With the understanding that opinions are still heavily charged. I'm going to say this anyway. Ostia's comment was not incorrect. The battle system in phase 1 and 2 was the most monotonous, un-strategic and boring systems I have ever encountered in an MMO. Gloating about being right in a 50/50 guess probably not something to be proud of but he was correct. I am really hoping the changes they implemented in this next phase improve the feel of combat. It is really the key to success for FFXIV: ARR.

Seconded.

The only real way to come to the conclusion that the battle systems didn't suck was comparing them to those implemented in the first batch of tests back in 2010. Even then, the best you could do is say that it sucks slightly less than those did

Paying attention is a skill. It's a measure of patience, caring, and understanding. Something that many women complain about their men often. While men always are more worried about their freedom and thinking everything is caused in some way by them. Tremendous skill? No, just a little effort pays off in videogames.

Mods began to make the tedious things less tedious, now they got mods for everything. Which detracts from some user skill. But I agree with you. Too many mmo players got bad attention spans.