First ImpressionsFollow

Its not doing anything innovative. If the idea of a tried and true modern MMO formula, but with a Final Fantasy flavour doesn't appeal to you, my suggestion would be to move on and stop wasting your time on a FFXIV fansite.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 7:28pm by Arjuncorpse

As an admin I shouldn't condone this but goddamn if I didn't literally LOL at this

I wouldn't call it useless, but it's like recommending a movie by your favorite director. If the person you're making the recommendation to hasn't seen anything from them previously, it's hard to make that shape their opinion or even be cause for consideration.

The thread is first impressions so we already have a bunch of feedback (both positive and negative). I was just looking specifically for what it is about XIV that people enjoy that they don't feel they could find elsewhere aside from the obvious ones(director, composer, writers, graphics engine, ect.).

ARR is unique in the right ways, and that's a beautiful thing.

The development team (led by Yoshi-P) didn't make the mistake of trying to reinvent the features that make MMOs so much fun. This game has large, distinct, explorable landscapes; an ultimate endgame emphasis on party play, and not soloist play; an engaging battle system that gets more complex as you level; a fantastic storyline; Etc.

At the same time, ARR has new and unique features to make it stand out from the crowd. It's a Final Fantasy title (sorry, naysayers, but this is a HUGE difference). It's multi-platform on the same servers, including the eventual introduction of ps4 players. The graphics engine isn't just awesome, but it's adaptable. The controller UI is all-new. Etc.

Basically, ARR is keeping the gameplay elements that make Final Fantasy games and MMORPGs fun, but while updating the infrastructure through which we enjoy these games. It's a "back to the basics" experience during a time when many other games are bumbling around to implement awkward gimmicks, such as getting rid of tanks and healers or giving players a "dodge roll" that gives invulnerability no matter which direction you happen to roll. Even the storyline of ARR is a "back to the basics" endeavor. Many MMORPGs these days attempt to execute branching storylines so that everyone can have experiences that seem to be unique... but Square Enix is sticking with its tried-and-true formula of involving all of its players in common struggles to overcome the same odds. The fact that ARR remains, at its core, a pure PvE game also makes it unique compared to most other games coming out these days.

People who truly can't see ARR as being unique in this market just aren't looking at this game objectively, nor are they seeing the big picture of the MMORPG market.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 5:56pm by Thayos

I feel I should expand on myself here.

Since Everquest, all these high budget MMOs have been following the same formula of slaughter on rails, with the ideal of creating a self consistent virtual world with opportunity for rich player interaction and actual role playing being second to mindless killing. Except for a few anomalies, the genre hasn't progressed at all. FFXIV was meant to be fun even if one just played crafting classes exclusively, but that hasn't seemed to have panned out well.

Rather than being tired of RPGs, I'm tired of playing the same game again and again. Nowhere in the phrase "(mass multiplayer) role playing game" is there reference to endless destruction of local fauna, or even leveling up. Yet this has come to dominate the genre and the MMO community doesn't seem to be demanding anything else.

Actually, just to counter this:

Role-playing games started from paper and pencil games which were about... well... endless destruction of the local fauna and leveling up.

Now, let me be clear, not saying you're not justified in wanting another sort of MMO experience, but expecting an MMORPG to be about something other than leveling is a little silly. You're basically asking it to not be an RPG. Now, honestly, I'd love to see other MMO experiences out there for people looking for them, such as yourself, because it could be very interesting. But, yea, expecting FFXIV to be about more than leveling isn't really going to happen.

I do wish that, as a crafter, you could level up and be a part of a party, I thought that was an interesting idea from 1.0, but I can see why it doesn't really work...

The basic premise of this game when it started was to break that mold Pawkeshup. If you go back and find articles about what XIV was supposed to be pre-alpha 1.0, you'd see that and you'd also probably think it was a really cool concept just like most of us did back then. Their aim was to step outside of the mindless grind and into being able to accomplish character progression through other means. The same was supposed to be true of the 'classless class-based system' they had in mind for what we now call jobs.

While ARR isn't going as far into left field as FFXIV originally intended, Yoshi-P has done away with the standard MMORPG grind by instead funneling players through dungeons/behests/leves/quests in order to level up. This is a departure from the old ways of MMORPGs (and specifically FFXI), when leveling was mostly accomplished by killing the same mob over and over again. So, yes, in FFXIV:ARR, we will be progressing our characters through other means than typical grinding.

As for attempting a "classless class-based system," the current system of classes/jobs actually fits that bill pretty nicely.

Fortunately, another game called Guild Wars 2 came along and committed fully to the true classless system, and the result was a disaster. Combat in that game is cluttered and without purpose. Nobody has defined roles, and everyone can do everything. Raids and group events pay a huge price for this, as everything is pretty much a massive zerg fest with no real strategy or group dynamics.

The approach taken with FFXIV allows for some degree of "classless" gameplay while people are alone or playing in small groups; however, the meat of the game's content is being designed to be played by parties, and people in those parties will have to perform their defined roles in order for the group to succeed... and that's the way it should be.

Yes, because I'm sure this is the first post of mine you actually read. Kinda defeats the point of the ignore button huh?



On their own the mechanics they've borrowed from other games aren't unique, but when you combine them together, it makes for a unique experience that I haven't seen rivaled in any other game, which is what I was getting at. Aside from that, the storyline is better than any game I've played in an mmo and is unique and engaging. I didn't mention the UI, so apparently I'm not the one failing at reading comprehension. Oh, but I'm sure you weren't referencing my post there even though it was in the middle of your rant against me, right?

If your response to gorgeous landscape is "It has grass", then either you are mostly blind, you are comparing it to non-mmo's, or you've apparently played some mmo's I haven't, because I've never seen a more beautifully designed or unique mmo in terms of graphics to date. And like I said before, there's a plethora of other reasons listed by many different posters which you've either ignored or glossed over, much like I said you would. If you can't take comfort in them and appreciate them, the game probably just isn't for you.



Apparently responding to something I don't agree with is fishing. News to me.



Edited, Jun 24th 2013 10:47pm by BartelX

Ok, here are some more unique things: the crafting system, which is completely unique and the deepest I've seen in an mmo; the gathering system, which again is completely unique to FFXIV; the ability to change jobs/classes in the field on the fly; the ability to save an almost limitless number of gearsets, the whole armoury system where gear is stored outside of your inventory; the materia system (yes it comes from an FF game but is completely unique to mmos); integrating dungeons into the actual storyline of the game.

I thought of all those reasons in about 3 minutes time. Maybe some have been done before (I certainly haven't played every mmo), but let me ask you this. What game really has many unique features anymore? Does WoW have much that's unique? Does Rift? Does lotro? DnD? Swtor? etc? Each of these games, I can think of maybe a couple things they do uniquely, the rest is either straight borrowed from other mmo's or adapted from them. WoW was an innovator... 9 years ago. Now? Most games have many of the same features. There are still plenty of unique things about FFXIV, not the least of which is the FF lore that you like to ignore for whatever reason.

A rpg is about playing a fantasy role with progression. Just the most common popular take on it involves levels. From my perspective he isn't saying that the core has to cease being destroying fauna. He is just wanting different types of rewarding progression and for developers to approach the systems differently than what WoW or Everquest set.

Incoming examples with intention not to champion other titles but show how titles play differently
Combat:
Final Fantasy up to IX= Turn Based or ATB
Final Fantasy XII= CTB
FFXII= ADB
FFXIII= Slotted ATB
WoW= Hotkey standard
Tera= Free target combat

Same overlying premise but they play differently.

Quests:
Final Fantasy XI= Old fashioned quests that do not hold your hand.
WoW= Quests clearly pointed out that hold your hand.
Guild Wars 2= Dynamic quests
Everquest Next= Utilizing story brick license
Neverwinter= The Foundry

Same overlying premise but they play differently.

If you look at Final Fantasy offline, it doesn't innovate at every turn. But the core systems are damn unique and play differently from other rpgs. I am still going to play ARR if it the core doesn't strongly distinguish itself from other titles. FFXI renkei system is something I have never seen in another game whether you liked it or not. I think Dizmo's or Filthy's beef is, why do most mmos borrow so much for the core systems when designing the game. I understand real time combat is more complicated. But Triple A mmos are supposed to bring in more cash than offline titles. Do they suddenly forget how to form brand new original ideas to hook non fans in?

Dizmo's pain extends beyond combat though. And ARR isn't the only mmo guilty of this. And it isn't Square's sole responsibility to fx this. Every themepark mmo is approaching other systems in the same fashion. Borrow a little, slightly change stuff, approaching game development timid to stray from the norm.

All rpg design doesn't need to only focus on raids, crafting gear or items, or pc vs pc melee PvP. Earlier I wished for things like airship/magitek circuits/chocobo jousting all with the potential of having their own progression systems. Housing in ARR is a form of progression too. But I guess if systems got too complex that would lead the game into being more of a sandbox I suppose. Multiple choices in dialogue and plot events and seasonal events add to the roleplay atmosphere.

Dizmo,
Who knows? Maybe 1.0 would have attempted those things and maybe not. We will never know because the execution was so bad the game flopped. Yoshi has made it very clear that this will be a traditional mmo. If you are coming into ARR expecting this to turn the mmo tropes on their head even though they lost a lots of money on this so far. You are asking for disappointment.

Everquest Next is the current mmo that is promising while it will have the traditional stuff. It is seeking to redefine what an mmo is.
But every mmo promises that and usually under delivers. You need to find what makes this mmo special in yourself. No one can convince you otherwise. It still has lots to offer if you love Final Fantasy but can get over that things will not be hugely different from other mmos.

This is what I am looking for. Clear, concise and... civil. Thanks.

Now to answer your question, yes; it is true that many games share many of the same features even outside of what we would all consider core mechanics and design. The 'couple things they do uniquely' that you refer to is what I have found to be the main reason that players gravitate toward and stay with those games. I won't deny that the lore of FF is something that keeps people coming back. Never have and never will. I just consider it (great storytelling, memorable characters, plot, ect.) to be something that you can find in other games as well.



I read your post Thayos and I thank you for answering. It wasn't an ultimatum though. This is not a "I bet you can't name 2 unique things" type of question and different people might have different answers.


There was more to it than that. DoL/DoH were supposed to have roles in groups. It never fleshed out further than you could toss a pebble(pun intended), but it was deeper than just give everyone self healing and either mitigation or evasion so that everyone can tank, heal or DD. Anyway, the only reason I brought it up was that I thought it ironic that one of the most interesting things about XIV(at least at the time) is now something that gets swept under the flying carpet.


Edited, Jun 25th 2013 12:19am by FilthMcNasty