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#1 Jul 03 2013 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
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I think the teleport cost is far to cheap. I kind of enjoyed the anima system, seemed it slowed travel down just a bit.

What are your opinions on the current teleport system?
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#2 Jul 03 2013 at 5:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's a gil sink. It seems cheap, until you start teleporting everywhere and flush 1000 gil down the drain for a round-trip from Gridania to Limsa. Considering gil drops from monsters are pretty low, most of your income will come from quests, leves, and items you vendor after a dungeon. So you'll need to be efficient with your teleporting, otherwise you'll have a hard time affording upgrades and necessities.
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#3 Jul 03 2013 at 5:53 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess I am thinking from a legacy standpoint. Where a majority of players already have deep pockets. Doesn't affect legacy and new players the same. Why I favor the anima system. But to each their own =)
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#4 Jul 03 2013 at 6:13 PM Rating: Decent
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You're complaining because something is "too cheap". Really?
#5 Jul 03 2013 at 6:17 PM Rating: Decent
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i hate games that make teleporting a hassle. your world is beautiful but i seriously dont want to spend my game time running
#6 Jul 03 2013 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not complaining, it's called a discussion.

My opinion is it is a little cheap, leading to constant teleporting. ARR is stuffed to the brim with beautiful scenery. I think it would be more plausible to have more exploration involved.

As I mentioned in my previous posts, I am a fan of the anima system. With the teleporting having its own "currency" with the fixed regen rate, made travel a hell of alot easier than FFXI, but not over-used. I enjoyed taking turns with ls-mates teleporting to our destination. Very small sense of teamwork I suppose.

I am sorry you mistook my thread keflynmahon. Only looking for friendly discussion

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 8:26pm by lemopwnu
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#7 Jul 03 2013 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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My instinctive reaction is to agree with you that the Anima system is better, but I haven't leveled enough in both 1.0 and 2.0 to know how it works out later in the game. I do hope travel is not completely trivial, that taking the ferry, airship and chocobos are still viable means of getting around. If I'm constantly teleporting everywhere because cost is a non-issue, I believe it'll break immersion.
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#8 Jul 03 2013 at 6:30 PM Rating: Decent
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PhoenixOmbre wrote:
My instinctive reaction is to agree with you that the Anima system is better ... I believe it'll break immersion.


Breaking immersion, thank you. This is the major factor. With the current teleport system, it isn't as fair to all players. 1.0 Characters, for the most part have very deep pockets. With teleport having it's own currency(anima), it has the same cost-impact to new to old players.


Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 8:31pm by lemopwnu
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#9 Jul 03 2013 at 6:33 PM Rating: Good
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lemopwnu wrote:
I guess I am thinking from a legacy standpoint. Where a majority of players already have deep pockets. Doesn't affect legacy and new players the same. Why I favor the anima system. But to each their own =)


I used to have "deep pockets", but not really deep since I didn't play that long. I got to level 24 and I had about 1.8 million gil. Then they did what they call currency revaluation. All existing gold was revalued to 10% of its original value to reduce inflation. All in-game costs were slashed by 90%, but so was the gil you had. As a result, I went from 1.8 million gil (not much for players who probably played considerably longer), down to 180k. Players with 100 million gil now have 10 million gil. You will also have housing on its way as well which will have an expensive front loaded fee to purchase the home, and then throwing money at furnishings. So if you decide to hop from the woodworking guild, to the mining guild, to the fishing guild, and back to the conjurer guild, you'd be looking at almost 2000 gil that you spent in 15 to 20 minutes. You'd have to do a few high level leves or fates to make up for that instant splurge. And then there are people on new servers. That could wipe out some newer players savings pretty quickly.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 5:34pm by desmar
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#10 Jul 03 2013 at 6:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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People who played a game will always have "deeper pockets" than those playing the game for the first time. You cannot base a price on a small fraction of the population. The immersion breaking point is a valid point; however, it wouldn't be difficult to tie the gil currency to some sort of plot device that makes it resonate with the aetheryte crystals, making the gil an energy currency that you can expend to teleport.
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#11 Jul 03 2013 at 6:39 PM Rating: Good
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I felt it was a good price and i hated anima..
#12 Jul 03 2013 at 6:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I think it would be cool to alter the anima system a bit. Instead of being given over time, have it use a system similar to XIs signet, where you have to have signet to get crystals, but instead of crystals, you get anima regen based on a percentage of exp gain or something.
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#13 Jul 03 2013 at 7:20 PM Rating: Default
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1.0 players should all dump all gear/gil/ or delete char, so people will stop coming up with ideas that makes things seem "fair."

Should have just made your position clear in the OP. "Legacy players have more gil, reinstate anima so they don't have a transportation advantage."

Or, I maybe wrong and you truly just wish for the beautiful vistas are explored.
#14 Jul 03 2013 at 7:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Traveling and cost of travel should be the least of peoples concern. I like it that way I can be more focused on my questing and adventures instead of having enough money for a TP.
#15 Jul 03 2013 at 7:28 PM Rating: Decent
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I do think people should see the work this team has put into rebooting this game. I have been playing since 1.17a, I'm legacy. I don't think that legacy should dump all their work down the drain. I apologize my position wasn't stated clearly enough. I think to be fair to everyone, teleport should have it's own "currency." I also believe that the "small world" feel Eorzea currently has, is partially due to the low-cost/ease of teleporting. I also feel paying gil for a teleport kind of ruins immersion.

I believe that about covers it =)
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#16 Jul 03 2013 at 7:30 PM Rating: Good
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Nah, while playing beta I haven't thought "this needs to be less convenient". I'm all for exploring and taking the scenic route now & then. I did plenty of that this past beta weekend. I also enjoy being able to quickly teleport somewhere when I need or want to.
#17 Jul 03 2013 at 7:32 PM Rating: Decent
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You still see everything even with the TP... You still need to attune with the towns before you can TP and you run to get there. You are not losing out on seeing anything you just don't have to see it a million times if you don't want to.

You can also take a chocobo and enjoy it that way.


Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 9:33pm by Mopdaddy
#18 Jul 03 2013 at 7:35 PM Rating: Default
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Teleporting shouldn't cost any gil. Are we going to make the THM's pay to use meteor?
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#19 Jul 03 2013 at 7:36 PM Rating: Default
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ErikHighwind wrote:
Teleporting shouldn't cost any gil. Are we going to make the THM's pay to use meteor?

On that token... only mages should be able to teleport haha.
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#20 Jul 03 2013 at 7:37 PM Rating: Decent
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ErikHighwind wrote:
Teleporting shouldn't cost any gil. Are we going to make the THM's pay to use meteor?


I agree, paying gil for a teleport ruins immersion. Anima makes more sense.
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#21 Jul 03 2013 at 7:50 PM Rating: Good
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I'd rather have it as spells like back in FFXI (and honestly I'd rather have it so spells were learned, not given at level up).

I think the new system will work out for the best since it will be a gil sink. There wasn't enough gil sinks in 1.0 and gil just kept accumulating and accumulating. I plan on playing on a legacy server but I'm going to make a new character and move my gil over eventually. I'm just afraid to see how the economy will turn out with all the gil currently out there. Wonder on average how much each character has ...
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#22 Jul 03 2013 at 7:53 PM Rating: Good
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EliteSerge wrote:
I'd rather have it as spells like back in FFXI (and honestly I'd rather have it so spells were learned, not given at level up).


NO.

What's that White Mages? You like Cure III? Well, you need to go do endgame dungeon of Hardmode +3 and pray that it drops (it's only 0.15% chance you know!), that you win the roll on it (or have enough DKP), or that you have close to 500 billion gil so you can afford it.

....

It is a stupid system and always has been. Locking class abilities behind money is just stupid.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 9:55pm by Viertel
#23 Jul 03 2013 at 8:02 PM Rating: Decent
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EliteSerge wrote:
I'd rather have it as spells like back in FFXI (and honestly I'd rather have it so spells were learned, not given at level up).

I think the new system will work out for the best since it will be a gil sink. There wasn't enough gil sinks in 1.0 and gil just kept accumulating and accumulating.


Bump up repair costs. With the number of dungeons you will end up running, increase the cost a bit, and you will have plenty of gil to sink into repairs.

Viertel wrote:


NO.

Locking class abilities behind money is just stupid.



That's why Anima is the perfect solution =P all classes have it, but there are, or could be, restrictions on usage, such as a cap.

I don't know. I just really like a seperate currency for teleports, that actually make sense to the use of Aetherytes.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 10:02pm by lemopwnu
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#24 Jul 03 2013 at 8:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Initially, I thought it was odd that transporting cost gil, but they do explain in-game that the cost of the transport is to maintain the Aetheryte stations. I feel there is no breaking of immersion even though it's just a few lines of explanation that could be easy to miss.
#25 Jul 03 2013 at 8:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Anima is a terrible solution. Always has, and always will be. Your "immersion breaking" is broken by Anima. You in essence have a magical ability bestowed by a regenerating currency. Why couldn't this currency be used for other things like limit breaks and cure spells and ... other magic? We could also use a large anima currency to redo our stat points. The point ends up being that anima undermines MP as the source of magic itself. There is already a regenerating mechanic in the game called Leve quests. People absolutely despise leves for much of the same reason. When you don't need it, it's fine, but when you want it to level several classes at the same time, then it's in short supply.

Gil is a good mechanic that regulates usage without producing waste. You can teleport as much as you want, but more importantly as much as you can afford. Versus anima capping at a certain level, and then only regenerating up to that point. Works great until maybe over a period of 3-4 days you really need to travel around a lot to help out LS mates, gathering spots, raids, and then all of a sudden your LS/GC is waiting for your 15 minute CHocobo ride to Ifrit because someone ran out of anima.
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#26 Jul 03 2013 at 8:31 PM Rating: Decent
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You guys make good points =)
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#27 Jul 03 2013 at 8:34 PM Rating: Default
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I love how teleport works now, please SE DO NOT CHANGE IT!
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#28 Jul 03 2013 at 8:48 PM Rating: Good
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Klarus wrote:
Initially, I thought it was odd that transporting cost gil, but they do explain in-game that the cost of the transport is to maintain the Aetheryte stations. I feel there is no breaking of immersion even though it's just a few lines of explanation that could be easy to miss.


See, I must have missed that. I was probably so excited to be playing again haha. Thanks for clearing that up for me though.

=)
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#29 Jul 03 2013 at 9:28 PM Rating: Decent
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In my opinion, having a resource that is only used in one situation (like Anima) breaks immersion even more because it makes Teleporting even more trivial. At least with Gil you have to decide if you waste your money on a teleport or save to buy something else. Also, having Anima around will make Airship/Ferries more obsolete since I would rather use a regenerative resource than spend money on a inferior method of transportation. Having Airship/Ferries/Trains cheaper then the Teleport cost in Gil makes then a more viable option.
#30 Jul 03 2013 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Jujubah wrote:
....Having Airship/Ferries/Trains cheaper then the Teleport cost in Gil makes then a more viable option.


Another great point!
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#31 Jul 03 2013 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
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Based on how 1.0 caused Anima burn when crafting and gathering, it's nice to know now, yes, you will not have gil from crafting leves, but you can keep crafting while you have leves available.
#32 Jul 03 2013 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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Anima made you care where your bind spot was. The only problem with long term cheap teleport means it's going to become a point to point game. City pickup then to leves or grind spots never having a healer get off the chocobo and raise strangers "ala FF11 good times". As far legacy benefits we have about a 2month head start then we'll be average to all the other servers. I think most of us old crafters have over priced items and materials that far exceeds our gil, the final game recipes is what i'm curious about. Smiley: smile
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#33 Jul 03 2013 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Warmech wrote:
Anima made you care where your bind spot was. The only problem with long term cheap teleport means it's going to become a point to point game.


=)
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#34 Jul 03 2013 at 9:46 PM Rating: Decent
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I think it's fair. If you want to get to one of the big cities, it costs like 600 gold, which if you use it more than a few times adds up quickly. And if you're already in the area, it only costs 100-200 gold or so to get around. If you want to go the snail route, you can spend 15 gold and take a chocobo porter, until you get your own.

So far it seems fair, but I really have only amassed a gold stack of about 20 large, so it might seem too minimal once I have gather quite a bit more.

Just outta curiousity, for any 1.0 players, how much gold did you guys have on hand at any given time? Like what is a lot of gold in this game?
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#35 Jul 03 2013 at 9:57 PM Rating: Decent
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supermegazeke wrote:
Just outta curiousity, for any 1.0 players, how much gold did you guys have on hand at any given time? Like what is a lot of gold in this game?


I felt rich when I hit 10 million, but most of the people I played with would laugh at me for saying that... Check out the old lodestone forums, so many people were getting so upset because they decided to scale the max gil/inventory down. I guess 99 million isn't enough for some people..(or maybe they didn't realize their current wealth status didn't change a bit, I don't know =P)
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#36 Jul 03 2013 at 10:02 PM Rating: Decent
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lemopwnu wrote:
supermegazeke wrote:
Just outta curiousity, for any 1.0 players, how much gold did you guys have on hand at any given time? Like what is a lot of gold in this game?


I felt rich when I hit 10 million, but most of the people I played with would laugh at me for saying that... Check out the old lodestone forums, so many people were getting so upset because they decided to scale the max gil/inventory down. I guess 99 million isn't enough for some people..(or maybe they didn't realize their current wealth status didn't change a bit, I don't know =P)


Yeah, in that case, I would agree teleport costs are maybe too cheap. lol
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#37 Jul 03 2013 at 10:04 PM Rating: Decent
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I personally feel like they should at least increase the gil cost by 25% +/-
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#38 Jul 03 2013 at 10:16 PM Rating: Decent
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i'm going to have to go with this new system being better for the game. In 1.0 before i took a long break like everyone else, i managed to make 20 mil doing only leves. Back then the 40 ones were giving like 40k per leve so i was able to make money pretty fast. There was nothing to spend gil on as NPC repairs were rediculously high, and there was no gear in the market wards. So gil just accumulated.

When i came back last august i had enough money to gear up all my classes pretty well and craft a bit. But even then there wasn't really much use for gil so I always seemed to just accumulate gil. Obviously if this continued there would be some pretty bad inflation, so I am all for a gil sink as long as it's balanced in such a way that I can make progress.

In 11 you really had to plan out your spending. Making money in that game was the hardest of any MMO ive ever played, at least in my opinion. (anyone remeber the prices for chocobos at the mea crag when going to party in Bibiki bay? the CoP area. On my server it was 9k/bird, and i would be lucky if i got enough materials to cover the cost while partying. One night i had 3 fail parties where it didn't work and we disbanded after like 3 mobs. 27k down the drain in a span of an hour.)
#39 Jul 04 2013 at 1:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Those chocobo prices used to go through the roof! It was funny sometimes though and getting one at below 1k felt amazing.
#40 Jul 04 2013 at 3:01 AM Rating: Good
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It is either just fine or a bit too expensive and needs to scale somewhat with level. There is a reason why I keep sitting around 1.5k while my g/f and friend are sitting on over 20k each. I'll give you a hint... It's helping them XD.

I thought that the Anima model was fine for the game, but I suppose they want their gil sinks and to not have people QQ about not being able to teleport when they need to.

Edited, Jul 4th 2013 5:02am by DamienSScott
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#41 Jul 04 2013 at 3:08 AM Rating: Good
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lemopwnu wrote:
I guess 99 million isn't enough for some people..(or maybe they didn't realize their current wealth status didn't change a bit, I don't know =P)


They probably became even more wealthy since gill will probably not be that easy to obtain anymore.

And some official forum Legacy members wonder why new players don't want to join their servers and don't want character transfers to the new ones...

Edited, Jul 4th 2013 5:11am by DamienSScott
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#42 Jul 04 2013 at 4:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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I must say that in all those weeks I am playing I used teleportation only 2 mayyyyybe 3 times tops. Using airships is not that bad and I like taking my time. The only time I used it was when they were waiting for me to do a run in TTD and I was late.
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#43 Jul 04 2013 at 4:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Soo because legacy players have tons of gil they need to raise the price on teleports for new players ? I don't think that's fair. They already lowered the amount of gil we get from quests and leaves. I had max 20k by lvl 30 and that was before I started anything else.

600 gill per repair ( if your gear is not up to your lvl it breaks faster thus more repairs ) than 400-700 per teleport.

People need to remember that new players are unable to make there own money till 18-20. So while new players have to choose to either fast teleport for cost or use airship + Choco due to the cost, legacy players that have a year of gil feel there so rich they wish it cost more.. that would be a game killer for me. And is the reason I'm starting on a fresh server.

#44 Jul 04 2013 at 8:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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silverhope wrote:
Soo because legacy players have tons of gil they need to raise the price on teleports for new players ? I don't think that's fair. They already lowered the amount of gil we get from quests and leaves. I had max 20k by lvl 30 and that was before I started anything else.

600 gill per repair ( if your gear is not up to your lvl it breaks faster thus more repairs ) than 400-700 per teleport.

People need to remember that new players are unable to make there own money till 18-20. So while new players have to choose to either fast teleport for cost or use airship + Choco due to the cost, legacy players that have a year of gil feel there so rich they wish it cost more.. that would be a game killer for me. And is the reason I'm starting on a fresh server.



I made 25k on quests and leves by 15, it's not impossible and that's plenty for someone who won't be leaving their opening areas until 15 anyway.
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#45 Jul 04 2013 at 8:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I see no problem with the current cost of teleport, considering how sometimes you have to go back and forth 3 times just to finish a story quest, but i also have no problem if they increase the price a bit, not 5K a trip but 600-800 a trip is not that bad, you can make a lot of money just leveling up, if you where to do all the leves you have allowed at 15 is 2500-3000k a pop even more if you do the leve at max Stars. Also take in consideration that right now we are not selling monster drops since there is essentially no economy in beta, on release that is also a good source of income.
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#46 Jul 04 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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I don't understand the immersion comments; paying for transportation is a normal part of life across cultures and history. I don't recall hearing about any free trans-Atlantic planes or boat rides.

It's not mandatory to teleport; don't use it if you don't like it. You can get airships and chocbos fairly quickly. If you think the anima system is so great, then just play by anima rules on your own.
#47 Jul 04 2013 at 10:59 AM Rating: Good
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schneiderw wrote:
I don't understand the immersion comments; paying for transportation is a normal part of life across cultures and history. I don't recall hearing about any free trans-Atlantic planes or boat rides.

It's not mandatory to teleport; don't use it if you don't like it. You can get airships and chocbos fairly quickly. If you think the anima system is so great, then just play by anima rules on your own.


It's not the fee that breaks immersion to me, it's the risk of making all other "traditional" means of transportation obsolete. I can't speak for you, but if I'm just zapping around the world à-la-guild wars, I can't feel properly immersed/connected to that universe. I have faith that they will hit the right balance and that it won't happen, but it might be trickier than it would be with Anima.

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#48 Jul 04 2013 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
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PhoenixOmbre wrote:
schneiderw wrote:
I don't understand the immersion comments; paying for transportation is a normal part of life across cultures and history. I don't recall hearing about any free trans-Atlantic planes or boat rides.

It's not mandatory to teleport; don't use it if you don't like it. You can get airships and chocbos fairly quickly. If you think the anima system is so great, then just play by anima rules on your own.


It's not the fee that breaks immersion to me, it's the risk of making all other "traditional" means of transportation obsolete. I can't speak for you, but if I'm just zapping around the world à-la-guild wars, I can't feel properly immersed/connected to that universe. I have faith that they will hit the right balance and that it won't happen, but it might be trickier than it would be with Anima.



You think those people that want to TP will slow down anyway? They wont, if you want to feel immersed then it is YOUR responsibility as the player to play that way.
#49 Jul 04 2013 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:

I made 25k on quests and leves by 15, it's not impossible and that's plenty for someone who won't be leaving their opening areas until 15 anyway.


I never said its to much just saying there is no need to raise the price
#50 Jul 04 2013 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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In case you didn't know, they added a similar system to XI last year with the "waypoints." Waypoints use a kinetic energy charge, anywhere from 1 to 100 units per zap. Kinetic units are refilled by feeding the waypoints crystal clusters. (Light clusters give the most energy.)

Earlier today I finally got around to doing SAM AF2's quest, in which I had to go to Norg, get a KI by trading a chef four gross ingredients, go to Laybyrinth of Onzozo and pop a NM, return to Norg, then tomorrow I'll go back to Norg, then head out to Valkurm Dunes and pop two more NMs, and then finally go back to Norg.

Before, this quest would have been a two day nightmare for a 50 SAM, with having to constantly travel to Norg from Kazham after getting there from a teleport or an airship or from the outpost.

Today, the first half of the quest took me about thirty minutes. I zapped myself to Norg from Ru'Lude gardens, initiated the quest, bought the crap off the unified AH in Norg, got my KI, zapped myself from Norg to Mhaura, ran to LoO, killed the NM, ran back to Mhaura, zapped myself to Norg again, and finished Part I of the quest. Then I zapped myself back to Jeuno. Total cost: 120 kinetic units, or about one light cluster's worth. 5K gil, maybe?

A poor 50 SAM back in the day would have spent around 3-4 hours and at least 10K gil getting Teleport-Yhoaters.
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#51 Jul 04 2013 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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PhoenixOmbre wrote:
schneiderw wrote:
I don't understand the immersion comments; paying for transportation is a normal part of life across cultures and history. I don't recall hearing about any free trans-Atlantic planes or boat rides.

It's not mandatory to teleport; don't use it if you don't like it. You can get airships and chocbos fairly quickly. If you think the anima system is so great, then just play by anima rules on your own.


It's not the fee that breaks immersion to me, it's the risk of making all other "traditional" means of transportation obsolete. I can't speak for you, but if I'm just zapping around the world à-la-guild wars, I can't feel properly immersed/connected to that universe. I have faith that they will hit the right balance and that it won't happen, but it might be trickier than it would be with Anima.



So don't teleport; no one is forcing you to "zap around the world." I don't understand how other people teleporting ruins immersion.
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