Phase 4Follow

So, by your logic 5% - 10% of the beta applicants are legacy players. And making that small percentage upset will ruin the game. But not making the other 90% - 95% happy won't? Not everybody is awesome like you and races to end game Ostia. There needs to be plenty of other stuff to do.

Since nobody on this forum has even played 2.0 endgame content, I would just say wait and see.

First, please reread the bolded part again. How does chocobo racing or housing have anything to do with mechanics, client/server interactions, or game systems? I'm saying that the base systems are more important than the finished systems. If something in the base is broken, it really doesn't matter how polished you make your endgame... it has to work first.

Second, I LOVE how you mention swtor failing because of endgame content lacking. I made that exact same argument about a month ago (along with ridiculous lag, a plethora of bugs, and unbalanced pvp) as the main reasons swtor failed and you laughed at me, claiming it was the combat system that was by FAR the biggest issue. Also, please note that on launch swtor had an ok amount of endgame content (two decent raids, a bunch of flashpoints), the problem is that they have only released new content once every 6 months or so, which is why it is such a detrimental aspect to the game.

Third, I never said 6 months or a year for endgame implementation. If that is the case, you are absolutely correct and many of them will leave (just like in swtor). If they have some at launch to tide them over until they release more a month or two later, that's what I'm talking about (and actually mentioned in my post).

Fourth, like I said, new players aren't starting at 50. They have to level up to get there. Certainly some will do it within a week or two, but most will take a bit longer, try out multiple classes, try out crafting, and by the time they get there, they will have the content that's there at launch, and most likely be pretty close to releasing more (according to the timeline Yoshi-P has already set forth). So, I don't really see it as an issue.

Ostia,

Now I know there was 1mil keys handed out and I'm darn sure there probably were not that many online. However I do know that I only hear good things from people I have been playing in beta with. I've not heard one negative comment unless its from you... I know myself that a game can't continue on for years without a good endgame aspect but wow man... You do know there are some others who could actually care less about EG at all and are only in it for the smaller things such as housing and choco stuff... So my question to you really is why do you constantly bash/put others wants for this game down in the dirt? Or are you only caring about Ostia?

Ostia,

Now I know there was 1mil keys handed out and I'm darn sure there probably were not that many online. However I do know that I only hear good things from people I have been playing in beta with. I've not heard one negative comment unless its from you... I know myself that a game can't continue on for years without a good endgame aspect but wow man... You do know there are some others who could actually care less about EG at all and are only in it for the smaller things such as housing and choco stuff... So my question to you really is why do you constantly bash/put others wants for this game down in the dirt? Or are you only caring about Ostia?

To be fair, FFXI had a ton of time sinks designed to slow player progression and levelling took a lot longer due to the difficulty and paltry exp mobs gave. The game didnt explain sh*t to you. A player would have to discover literally everything on their own, which takes more time. Hell even the run speed was a time sink when you think about the size of the zones and the lack of transportation options before level 20.

FFXI had a lot of terrible game design elements that were often developed to frustrate the player.

Edited, Jul 15th 2013 1:09pm by reptiletim

I see what you're saying and agree with you in terms of the length of ops. Being able to full clear the op in 2 hours really kills the depth of endgame. I still think that raids should come more often than one per 6 months. Rift had them coming out one every couple months. WoW was similar, or would be adding entire new wings onto raids. Lotro introduces new instances 4-5 times a year. Two a year seems like a slow schedule to me, but I suppose if they are pretty elaborate and require saving progress in order to beat over the course of several sessions, I'd be fine with that.

I mean, you COULD have read the rest of my reply to you... because everything after that first word was actually the important part. But if you don't want to discuss things, just say you don't want to discuss things.

I did read it. I just didn't feel like quoting it. And the rest of that post didn't provide any of the information I was looking for, and sounded just as dismissive and condescending.

Endgame is very important. But there is plenty for people to do starting from scratch. How many dungeons did they say?15? How many jobs and classes? This isn't an alt game where you can focus on one class and ignore the rest, they have to level multiple class/jobs. That is going to take awhile to do. What is the best methods for making gil here? Crafting? Gathering? Guidleves?

ARR has two years of beta because of legacy in addition to the standard beta as most games have at launch. SE isn't dumb enough to make the same mistake as TOR or the second mistake twice. They know they want you legacy players to stick around. There will be endgame content like a mutha coming in patches and expansion during the first 6 months. I guarantee you.

Could you provide the link for this translation? I'm certainly not willing to stumble around 2ch from work!

But really, thanks for providing the most relevant info I've seen thus far on the timing of Phase 4! Rate up for sure.

I assure you I am quite calm right now. You could sleep soundly while adrift on my emotional seas.



It's a valid point. Many people could enjoy FFXIV just fine without PvP. Maybe even a vast majority.

But consider this:



There's no flaw in this reasoning, and I'll explain why.

I would say 10% is cutting it a little low for PvP participation, but let's go with that number for now because it works in many similar features of the game. In fact, FFXIV is a collection of features that might only appeal to 10% of the population or so when you get right down to it.

Sure, everyone might dabble in a little crafting now and then, but how many people are going to play it hardcore enough to multi-meld materia on all manner of gear? Probably not even 10% are going to take it all the way, and even then, how many are going to pursue this from the beginning? Yet, if crafting weren't working, we'd allow the game an extra week or so of development if that's all it took, right? There are people with crafts at 50 already, and everyone relies on it.

Most people find Gathering rather mundane; a virtual simulation of repetitive field work. Maybe only 10% truly like this option and will pursue it to 50 with enthusiasm. Yet, we would not deny Gatherers a functioning system. We recognize materials gathering is the backbone of the economy, collecting ingredients not found through regular monster fighting, and keeping Crafters crafting. There are people with gathering at 50 already, so we'd give them an extra week.

Not everyone likes hardcore endgame. In a casual game like this, it seems anathema, and maybe only 10% will actually pursue it full force (if there's a million players, maybe even less than 10%). But we have a lot of former FFXI players and people from other hardcore MMO backgrounds, so we obviously have to keep them entertained even though the vast majority will be starting at level 1 and hardly pursuing endgame. But, since there are characters at 50 already, we'd give them an extra week.

Maybe not everyone likes quests, or storylines, or dungeons, or Guildleves, or grinding, but we'd wait a week for any of these because we recognize there are differing playstyles and while I might not like one thing, plenty of other people do.

So, what about PvP? Any modern MMO has PvP to some degree, in a mostly friendly PvE game. To skip this is half-assed, marks will be taken away by reviewers for not having it, and some players won't even bother picking up FFXIV in first place. With it so close to completion, why not spend an extra week on it if that's all it took? While other "10% features" require a level 50 mastery to be fully realized, PvP is available at a wide range of levels, and will probably be enjoyed by most new players far sooner than they'd level up to 50 in any class.

But if this doesn't do it for you, let me put it this way:

Crafters will benefit greatly since people will want different builds for PvP that differ from PvE, and Gatherers will benefit because Crafters a lot more supplies than if they were just gearing PvE builds. Hardcore endgame PvE players who don't care for PvP still benefit because those who enjoy playing PvP, and don't quit their subscription because it's there, will be funding the development team with actual subscription money while they play, which can only benefit endgame development far more than if they left to play something else. It may only be "10%" who like this, but it benefits the the playstyles of everyone who plays FFXIV. I'd say it's worth a week of extra development time.

Saying "lack of endgame content" is potentially misleading because it implies there wasn't a lack of other content. In other words, it'd be more appropriate on something like The Old Republic. FFXIV 1.0 suffered from lack of content on *everything* except tradeskills. Tradeskills was simply bizarre content, but having to figure out recipes kept people distracted for a bit. But running to Bluefog and Broken Water for leve turn-ins at level 10? SERIOUSLY? And let's not get started on having to find recipes like Clear Glass Lens with absolutely nothing to go on (except SCIENCE) until someone submitted it to yg.

Wasnt it already announced in one of the letters from the producer that shortly after release they will be adding the Crystal Tower and Bahamut's Labarynth as end-game content? And that there is a planned expansion pack on the horizon?