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Is there a "support" role/class in FFXIV?Follow

#27 Jul 19 2013 at 10:25 PM Rating: Good
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Job is reflective of the Class so far. Using a Limit Break on Bard results as the same as Archer - a healing Limit Break.

Something tells me this is temporary, however. Right now Archer is the only job of its type. Once more Physical Ranged classes come into play we may expect another Limit Break to be created for them.

Right now though, the Limit Break system itself is being put under harsh criticism. I'm not sure if its development will continue on its initially intended path.
#28 Jul 19 2013 at 11:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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I actually wouldn't mind seeing a standardized Limit Break system like we have now for the sake of balance but with the exception of possibly adding visual variety. Sure, add different Limit Breaks for the melee DD but keep their effectiveness essentially the same.

I think part of the criticism that the LB system gets is seeing things like Final Heaven and Meteor being used by Jobs not fitting of it (Dragoon/Summoner); along with the Archer/Bard issue.
#29 Jul 21 2013 at 5:09 PM Rating: Good
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FrozenSherbet wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
I had meant to make this it's own topic before and I posted it in another thread by mistake.

Anyways, I only noticed Tank, Healer, DPS in the queue for Duty Finder.

I know BLM does some crowd-control, but is primarily a DPS...
and LNC does "Slow" and "Stun" moves, but is defnitely melee DPS.
ARC can "Bind" mobs for some crowd-control too but is primarily a DPS.

Is there a real "Support" role in this game?

Will BRD, RDM and DNC if/when they implement all of them, be primarily DPS with some support abilities too? Or is there going to be a support role added at some point?


Sorry if this topic has been beaten to death already, I couldn't find any similar topics when searching the forum regarding support roles/jobs in FFXIV.


Since I replied in the other thread, I decided I would elaborate a bit more here. With the way the game is currently set up, I don't think SE plans on adding a pure support class. With four man parties, pure support classes don't really fit as nicely as they should. Instead, we have at least one DPS/support hybrid.

BRD is a class that acts primarily as a ranged DPS. They pick up an additional attack over ARC along with three songs and a song amplifier. The songs give the class a support feel, but the MP drainage prevents them from being a staple to the class. As such, you end up with a DPS that can provide situational support.

SCH and SMN could likely fall into the same sort of situation. With pets in play, they are going to be expected to be able to do more than just heal and deal damage. In order to keep balance, their extras will likely have some limits put into place. I don't think they will behave the way BRD does, but I do think they are going end up with some restrictions.

Edited, Jul 19th 2013 2:27pm by FrozenSherbet



Probably a stupid question but will these minor support abilities stack with food?
#30 Jul 21 2013 at 5:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShindaUsagi wrote:
FrozenSherbet wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
I had meant to make this it's own topic before and I posted it in another thread by mistake.

Anyways, I only noticed Tank, Healer, DPS in the queue for Duty Finder.

I know BLM does some crowd-control, but is primarily a DPS...
and LNC does "Slow" and "Stun" moves, but is defnitely melee DPS.
ARC can "Bind" mobs for some crowd-control too but is primarily a DPS.

Is there a real "Support" role in this game?

Will BRD, RDM and DNC if/when they implement all of them, be primarily DPS with some support abilities too? Or is there going to be a support role added at some point?


Sorry if this topic has been beaten to death already, I couldn't find any similar topics when searching the forum regarding support roles/jobs in FFXIV.


Since I replied in the other thread, I decided I would elaborate a bit more here. With the way the game is currently set up, I don't think SE plans on adding a pure support class. With four man parties, pure support classes don't really fit as nicely as they should. Instead, we have at least one DPS/support hybrid.

BRD is a class that acts primarily as a ranged DPS. They pick up an additional attack over ARC along with three songs and a song amplifier. The songs give the class a support feel, but the MP drainage prevents them from being a staple to the class. As such, you end up with a DPS that can provide situational support.

SCH and SMN could likely fall into the same sort of situation. With pets in play, they are going to be expected to be able to do more than just heal and deal damage. In order to keep balance, their extras will likely have some limits put into place. I don't think they will behave the way BRD does, but I do think they are going end up with some restrictions.

Edited, Jul 19th 2013 2:27pm by FrozenSherbet



Probably a stupid question but will these minor support abilities stack with food?


They will. I don't think SE would be willing to gimp one of their DoH classes like that. I just think of food as something entirely separate from buffs and the like.
#31 Jul 21 2013 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
I think they streamlined it to remove support roles.

For example elemental spells debuff. And there is one spell to remove player debuffs.


I think it makes for more fun and causing dd's to think more and work together. And mages to cast with more freedom and variety.

In ffxi my rdm had a ridiculous amount of spells. But as i cast my haste/refresh cycle with phalanx 2 on the tank and then Having paralyna and poisona ready. And my finger on sleep....... Thats it. A fully merited level 75 rdm in endgame cast 7 spells. 7. Because if i wasnt the main tank party rdm. Then i was the support rdm. So a few more cures and some slow and paralyze mixed in. With the haste/refresh for blm's an dd's.

Long story short...... It looks the micromanagement is gone and there more self buffing and multitasking spells and abilities.
#32 Jul 21 2013 at 8:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Anakte wrote:
I think you're overestimating how difficult the 4-man content is supposed to be. For end game content you'll get 8 people and have to incorporate strategy (at least more so than the 4 man content.) With 8 you'll have more flexibility with who brings what to the table.

But yes, it seems that they will stick to the "dps with support abilities" model rather than having straight support,


Perhaps they'll implement a "support" job into the Duty Finder queue when they release 8 man content?
#33 Jul 22 2013 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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1,208 posts
asuran05 wrote:
I think they streamlined it to remove support roles.

For example elemental spells debuff. And there is one spell to remove player debuffs.


I think it makes for more fun and causing dd's to think more and work together. And mages to cast with more freedom and variety.

In ffxi my rdm had a ridiculous amount of spells. But as i cast my haste/refresh cycle with phalanx 2 on the tank and then Having paralyna and poisona ready. And my finger on sleep....... Thats it. A fully merited level 75 rdm in endgame cast 7 spells. 7. Because if i wasnt the main tank party rdm. Then i was the support rdm. So a few more cures and some slow and paralyze mixed in. With the haste/refresh for blm's an dd's.

Long story short...... It looks the micromanagement is gone and there more self buffing and multitasking spells and abilities.


I definitely like how involved DPS is in this iteration of FF.

Since I'm almost always a mage or support class in other MMO's, including FFXI... I'm really looking forward to my first time playing as a DPS.

#34 Jul 22 2013 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
The problem I see with divvying up support roles to dps is I can see the problem with PUG in which DD stereotypically don't pay attention to whether a bus or jet is running them over. That is why so many play DDs, they involve less responsibility to play. Hopefully they tie all the support into direct damage abilities or it'll be something that annoys many tanks/healers.
#35 Jul 22 2013 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
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manuforti wrote:
The problem I see with divvying up support roles to dps is I can see the problem with PUG in which DD stereotypically don't pay attention to whether a bus or jet is running them over. That is why so many play DDs, they involve less responsibility to play. Hopefully they tie all the support into direct damage abilities or it'll be something that annoys many tanks/healers.


Yeah I agree it can be kind of difficult to determine who is supposed to be responsible for buffing / debuffing, and even if you'll get someone with specific "desirable" powers for either in your group when you queue up with Duty Finder.

At least if there were a support role that was clearly defined then that person would be responsible for that duty, as opposed to having a DPS maybe kinda sorta be able to do it.

I can see this being a problem later on with higher tiered content, but not necessarily on the lower level dungeons where it should be just fine.

I'm kind of torn on this topic myself because I will be playing DPS for the first time, so I kind of want faster queues as a DPS as well as more involvement then just pew pew pew pew pew pew Limit Break pew pew pew...

Edited, Jul 22nd 2013 4:06pm by Hairspray
#36 Jul 22 2013 at 2:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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232 posts
Hairspray wrote:
manuforti wrote:
The problem I see with divvying up support roles to dps is I can see the problem with PUG in which DD stereotypically don't pay attention to whether a bus or jet is running them over. That is why so many play DDs, they involve less responsibility to play. Hopefully they tie all the support into direct damage abilities or it'll be something that annoys many tanks/healers.


Yeah I agree it can be kind of difficult to determine who is supposed to be responsible for buffing / debuffing, and even if you'll get someone with specific "desirable" powers for either in your group when you queue up with Duty Finder.

At least if there were a support role that was clearly defined then that person would be responsible for that duty, as opposed to having a DPS maybe kinda sorta be able to do it.

I can see this being a problem later on with higher tiered content, but not necessarily on the lower level dungeons where it should be just fine.

I'm kind of torn on this topic myself because I will be playing DPS for the first time, so I kind of want faster queues as a DPS as well as more involvement then just pew pew pew pew pew pew Limit Break pew pew pew...

Edited, Jul 22nd 2013 4:06pm by Hairspray


With the way BRD is set up, I don't think you're going to have to worry about buffing. BRD's buffs are purely situational and exist more for convenience than anything else. I don't think SMN will be given any must have buffs either. The only support ability I could see being painful to lose is Stoneskin if you have a SCH instead of a WHM. Since I don't know what abilities SCH will have, that could be a complete non-issue. Then again, BRD, PLD, and probably SCH will be able to cross-class it.

Debuffing, on the other hand, is where things could get interesting. So far only THM/BLM has access to Sleep. Later on, that could potentially be a huge problem.
#37 Jul 22 2013 at 8:25 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
they took the role that had the most invites in FFXI for parties and merged it with the role that go the least invites,
They merged Red Mage with Red Mage?


RDMception
New Class: Red Mage. Job:Red Mage

The feather of your pimp hat has a pimp hat.
I'm still trying to decide whether to hate you for saying that or just simply laught.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2013 10:25pm by Ruisu
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