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Letter from the Producer, XLVIII (07/25/2013) Follow

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#77 Jul 26 2013 at 9:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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svlyons wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
No Archer/Bard, wowza. It doesn't bode well then, for that class. Unless, it was the reason why they lost, because they didn't have one in the party. Hmmm.

I wouldn't read too much into the absence of Archer/Bard. It's an 8 man party, and there are 9 jobs. One of the jobs was going to get left out. It just happened to be Bard in this particular case.


I think to illustrate the point you could ask, would they have left out the Black Mage instead of the Bard?
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#78 Jul 26 2013 at 9:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hairspray wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
svlyons wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
No Archer/Bard, wowza. It doesn't bode well then, for that class. Unless, it was the reason why they lost, because they didn't have one in the party. Hmmm.

I wouldn't read too much into the absence of Archer/Bard. It's an 8 man party, and there are 9 jobs. One of the jobs was going to get left out. It just happened to be Bard in this particular case.

Or.. even the devs realize that the buffs from bard are hella-weak.. because they are.. For bard, it is hardly worthwhile to use Ballad with the mp drain on yourself.

Wow what a shame, BRD was the most sought-after job in FFXI for a very long time... I guess I won't be doing BRD in FFXIV:ARR.

I've said it before, but the songs are purely situational. BRD is a DPS with the added convenience of a few support abilities. Outside of downtime and some extended boss fights, the songs are pretty much worthless.

Rain of Death, on the other hand, is awesome. I doubt there's a better debuff than it in the game. In larger groups, the 10% increase to everyone's damage will more than outweigh any disadvantages a BRD might carry. Add in the 10% damage reduction to the monster's attacks, and you have an extremely valuable ability. The only downside to it is that it's an AoE. If you have a BLM sleeping mobs, you'll hardly be able to use it.
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#79 Jul 26 2013 at 9:58 AM Rating: Default
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FrozenSherbet wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
svlyons wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
No Archer/Bard, wowza. It doesn't bode well then, for that class. Unless, it was the reason why they lost, because they didn't have one in the party. Hmmm.

I wouldn't read too much into the absence of Archer/Bard. It's an 8 man party, and there are 9 jobs. One of the jobs was going to get left out. It just happened to be Bard in this particular case.

Or.. even the devs realize that the buffs from bard are hella-weak.. because they are.. For bard, it is hardly worthwhile to use Ballad with the mp drain on yourself.

Wow what a shame, BRD was the most sought-after job in FFXI for a very long time... I guess I won't be doing BRD in FFXIV:ARR.

I've said it before, but the songs are purely situational. BRD is a DPS with the added convenience of a few support abilities. Outside of downtime and some extended boss fights, the songs are pretty much worthless.

Rain of Death, on the other hand, is awesome. I doubt there's a better debuff than it in the game. In larger groups, the 10% increase to everyone's damage will more than outweigh any disadvantages a BRD might carry. Add in the 10% damage reduction to the monster's attacks, and you have an extremely valuable ability. The only downside to it is that it's an AoE. If you have a BLM sleeping mobs, you'll hardly be able to use it.

Or just carry a marauder/warrior and forget the sleep
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#80 Jul 26 2013 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Paladin can hold the same. Just split your DDs instead of overfocusing on one. Only cause in which splitting damage focus is a problem is if the enemy group has something like a bomb that would be better focusing on or kept slept until you can - and in that case the Maurader isn't going to do any better for you than a Paladin.
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#81 Jul 26 2013 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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Ehllfire wrote:
Game isnt out and people giving up on bard? Im going to take a guess that the actual uses for bard havent been fully realized, versus that they are "weak".


No.. but as I have Brd and other jobs at level 50, I can tell you it disappoints me, as it's my main job and I have trouble justifying the use of songs for the insane costs. (and the game IS out in that I totally played it and there have been no announced changes to brd..)

Edited, Jul 26th 2013 1:34pm by Louiscool
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#82 Jul 26 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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svlyons wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
No Archer/Bard, wowza. It doesn't bode well then, for that class. Unless, it was the reason why they lost, because they didn't have one in the party. Hmmm.

I wouldn't read too much into the absence of Archer/Bard. It's an 8 man party, and there are 9 jobs. One of the jobs was going to get left out. It just happened to be Bard in this particular case.


reptiletim wrote:
svlyons wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
No Archer/Bard, wowza. It doesn't bode well then, for that class. Unless, it was the reason why they lost, because they didn't have one in the party. Hmmm.

I wouldn't read too much into the absence of Archer/Bard. It's an 8 man party, and there are 9 jobs. One of the jobs was going to get left out. It just happened to be Bard in this particular case.


I think to illustrate the point you could ask, would they have left out the Black Mage instead of the Bard?


Considering I was going to start out Arch instead of THM, this lineup just opened my eyes, wideopen.
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#83 Jul 26 2013 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure if I would read too much into the lack of BRD in this one instance. Also, I'm not sure that I would base the utility/efficiency of the job based on its skills in beta. Most likely if the common complaint is that the songs are too costly to justify using, it will be balanced out. This game is more than likely going to have multplie class/job balancing patches. Just because no changes have been announced yet for this job, doesn't mean there won't be changes in the future.

Heck most MMOs that are established and have been out for years are STILL balancing things as new features are added. As we have seen through Yoshi's direction, he really wants to ensure no one job is singled out as useless. If the game is inbalanced due to something as simple as the cost of using songs, it shouldn't take much effort to just lower the costs or increase the efficacy of the song.
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#84 Jul 26 2013 at 4:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I mean.. guys... do you honestly think that when SE was putting that together, they sat around and said "Oh.. well, we obviously can't bring a bard to this, bards are awful, loooooool"

It's an 8-man party, there are 9 jobs. They probably wanted to get SCH and SMN in there for testing purposes at the same time (because why not). There's no subtext here to read.
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#85 Jul 27 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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For the people worrying about BRD, this link was posted in this thread of the beta forums. While it doesn't necessarily prove anything, it does show that BRD has the ability to be effective in a party setting.
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#86 Jul 27 2013 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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XI's iteration of BRD was rather poorly thought out, too. I know it was typically a "must have" but too often I'd consider it in the "bad way" on the balance scales (COR, SMN, and even GEO were not "alternative" options). And sometimes I think I'm one of the few people who thought BRD rotations were silly for even being possible (Would've preferred songs being alliance-wide instead of forcing people to drop party to sing in another). XI's BRD didn't really put any thought into upkeep, either, just recast your stuff every 2 minutes or so and maybe play a gimpy WHM in events in between. XIV's version may not be as potent in the buff department in consequence, but I'd dare say it makes the job more engaging this time around. Those wanting some low-maintenance buff bot they can multi-box around or princess into endgame like XI will surely be disappointed.
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#87 Jul 27 2013 at 10:03 PM Rating: Decent
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I see some very curious things in those pictures. He says this test was done with a gamepad but what are 2 and 3 rows on the bottom right of some of the pics? That sort of looks like a hybrid gamepad/keyboard setup with some abilities set separately from each other. There are numbers above each of the abilities in the top row there.

Or is that a way to check cool downs from abilities that are not on the current set list. Something I think would be very much needed with a full list of level 50 skills.
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#88 Jul 27 2013 at 11:23 PM Rating: Good
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FluEpidemic wrote:
I see some very curious things in those pictures. He says this test was done with a gamepad but what are 2 and 3 rows on the bottom right of some of the pics? That sort of looks like a hybrid gamepad/keyboard setup with some abilities set separately from each other. There are numbers above each of the abilities in the top row there.

Or is that a way to check cool downs from abilities that are not on the current set list. Something I think would be very much needed with a full list of level 50 skills.


Yeah, Yoshi uses extra hotbars as cool down reminders.
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#89 Jul 28 2013 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Is it possible to do this on ps3? I'm afraid that as a high level PUG I won't be able to fit all my abilities on one hotkey cross bar. Then I won't be able to readily view all my cool downs. I ran out of space at the max level in the P3 with all the cross class abilities.

Edited, Jul 28th 2013 7:46pm by FluEpidemic
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#90Theonehio, Posted: Jul 28 2013 at 2:26 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Probably because you wanted to play less of a Bard and more of an Archer. Right now Bard is an Archer with more than Swiftsong, you can easily remove Bard from the game and give everything to Archer and no one would know.
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#91 Jul 28 2013 at 9:18 PM Rating: Good
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This is because you wanted 4 jobs that did the exact same thing,

So then why is it okay for BRD to be a snowflake when WAR, DRK, SAM, DRG, THF, RNG, and then some had to fight over DD spots? We're skirting dangerously into princess territory here. Especially in a game where there are now more jobs than alliance spots.

Edited, Jul 28th 2013 11:18pm by Seriha
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#92 Jul 28 2013 at 9:32 PM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
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This is because you wanted 4 jobs that did the exact same thing,

So then why is it okay for BRD to be a snowflake when WAR, DRK, SAM, DRG, THF, RNG, and then some had to fight over DD spots? We're skirting dangerously into princess territory here. Especially in a game where there are now more jobs than alliance spots.


I agree with you Seriha on this particular comparison.
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#93 Jul 29 2013 at 3:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Hairspray wrote:
Wow what a shame, BRD was the most sought-after job in FFXI for a very long time... I guess I won't be doing BRD in FFXIV:ARR.
Not sure if that's sarcasm or if you're actually serious.

Bard is more than fine from what I've seen. Some are grumbling because the fact BRD is DPS with group cooldowns rather than straight-out buff bot doesn't guarantee them a spot in groups anymore. Sure, you don't have to reserve a spot in a group for a bard in FFXIV, but that doesn't spell trouble for the job in any way. As mentioned earlier, 9 jobs, 8 slots in a party.
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#94 Jul 29 2013 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Seriha wrote:
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This is because you wanted 4 jobs that did the exact same thing,

So then why is it okay for BRD to be a snowflake when WAR, DRK, SAM, DRG, THF, RNG, and then some had to fight over DD spots? We're skirting dangerously into princess territory here. Especially in a game where there are now more jobs than alliance spots.


I agree with you Seriha on this particular comparison.


I'll be very frank here: FFXI did a terrible job with class balance and design, we just accepted it as what it was and worked around it. I'm glad The developers aren't borrowing from XI's mechanics.

I'm not sure how one screenshot is making anyone worry about BRD though. I mean, what is there to tell? Bard simply isn't there, nothing more.

Edited, Jul 29th 2013 10:14am by HeroMystic
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