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#1 Jul 30 2013 at 9:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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So I was just thinking a bit about the economy and how it's affected the game enjoyability in previous MMO's I've played, and from what little I was able to gather from playing the beta what might be our experience with it after P4 and launch.

So for the game through the first 20-30 levels, it seems like you really don't need gil for much of anything... you get armor as rewards for questing and as drops from dungeons.. seemingly on par with or even better then the gear you could buy at those levels.

My assumption is that once you get to a certain level of inflation, perhaps a month or two after launch, that the AH prices will start to rise for items that can be crafted that are better than what you can buy off of vendors (my hope anyways) and crafters will be able to earn a living and make extra gil to use for things like rare drops for their combat roles, etc.

I noticed you have to be pretty far into the story to even begin listing items on the AH... level 20+ I believe before retainers become available.

What do you guys see as the future of the FFXIV: ARR economy?

What are the pitfalls you think they will need to avoid?

Will armor be un-sellable after you wear it like in WoW? Or will armor be re-sellable like in FFXI?

Let's discuss. Smiley: cool

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#2 Jul 30 2013 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hairspray wrote:
What do you guys see as the future of the FFXIV: ARR economy?


I see it becoming more adaptable and long lasting than FFXI's that's for damned sure. For one, the gathering isn't as onerous as it was for FFXI so there will be a higher supply of goods at any given time and the inventory management will erase a lot of issues that farming/gathering had in FFXI (and in other MMOs really because 99 a stack is nice).

Plus, gear will always be needed for materia melding and crafters will supply that aspect. Just think about it like this: for gear on your 2nd/3rd/4th class you're leveling you're more than likely going to be using materia. On average you'll have 2 slots and you'll *want* to push double or triple melding just to make the leveling easier (and personally more fun to me). Take a chest piece with 2 materia slots and just double melding that's four pieces of gear.... assuming you're trying yourself, you get the materia you want AND you don't fail the double meld. If you go triple melding that's five minimum and you're talking astronomical odds.....and this is all for one piece of gear.

Now count up all the gear that's nuked into materia that you don't want at that time. Up on the market it goes because they're all stats someone is going to use. With the way crafting is set up to support the materia system (and vice versa) I really don't see the market for a set level ever really disappear. You can only add so much of a stat to a piece of gear so just slapping in the highest level materia won't work (and is a massive waste), thus the actual level materia of the gear is better.

The plus side is because gear is always needed to be spiritbound and nuked the items needed to craft them will be needed as well. Sure, two or three years down the line the demand will level off to a comfortable level but with such a system being built in from the ground up it's definitely set up for long term stability.

Hairspray wrote:
What are the pitfalls you think they will need to avoid?


Don't go too crazy trying to stamp out RMT that you abuse and frustrate your playerbase. Considering anything NQ vendors for 1 gil and anything HQ vendors for 2 gil they've already established the concept of "You won't be vendoring anything easily for free cash." and RMT thrives on those types of gil making processes.

Hairspray wrote:
Will armor be un-sellable after you wear it like in WoW? Or will armor be re-sellable like in FFXI?


That's answer the first time you fight with a piece of gear that's crafted or bought. The second you get experience it binds it to you. And it's a way I'd prefer it.
#3 Jul 30 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hairspray wrote:


What do you guys see as the future of the FFXIV: ARR economy?

What are the pitfalls you think they will need to avoid?

Will armor be un-sellable after you wear it like in WoW? Or will armor be re-sellable like in FFXI?

Let's discuss. Smiley: cool



I think that the ARR economy will be like all other games it will take about a month for items to really show up and than an other month or so for the prices to lvl out abit. I think the lvl 20 restrictions will help in the long run with botters even if it slows them down alittle it will be just that much better.

Pitfalls.. I dont think there are many other than having to use a retainer to sell things. If maybe you could call your retainer anywhere it would be a plus but to have to walk 10 feet from the market board to sell things than walk back to buy seems alittle silly. I wish the reatiner was just a bank.

Armor you get will become unsellable once you put it on I think. But in no way is it like FFXI I remember reading something about this being done to help crafters still have a place in the market.
#4 Jul 30 2013 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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silverhope wrote:
Hairspray wrote:


What do you guys see as the future of the FFXIV: ARR economy?

What are the pitfalls you think they will need to avoid?

Will armor be un-sellable after you wear it like in WoW? Or will armor be re-sellable like in FFXI?

Let's discuss. Smiley: cool



I think that the ARR economy will be like all other games it will take about a month for items to really show up and than an other month or so for the prices to lvl out abit. I think the lvl 20 restrictions will help in the long run with botters even if it slows them down alittle it will be just that much better.

Pitfalls.. I dont think there are many other than having to use a retainer to sell things. If maybe you could call your retainer anywhere it would be a plus but to have to walk 10 feet from the market board to sell things than walk back to buy seems alittle silly. I wish the reatiner was just a bank.

Armor you get will become unsellable once you put it on I think. But in no way is it like FFXI I remember reading something about this being done to help crafters still have a place in the market.


Yeah I really don't understand the retainer situation at all. I don't know why that even exists.
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#5 Jul 30 2013 at 9:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hairspray wrote:
Yeah I really don't understand the retainer situation at all. I don't know why that even exists.


It's a storage chest with boobs, what's not to like?

#6 Jul 30 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hairspray wrote:


Yeah I really don't understand the retainer situation at all. I don't know why that even exists.



I think its more of.. saving a failed experiment.. than anything. I mean i understand it saved space.. Dont need to have Bank NPCs but I would rather have 100 bank spots per char than 100 bank spots per account per server.
#7 Jul 30 2013 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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In the long run it looks like crafting is mostly going to be about providing consumables and materia. Apart from the crafting/gathering gear, it looks like all of the craftable gear will be easily surpassed by dungeon gear.
#8 Jul 30 2013 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gnu wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
Yeah I really don't understand the retainer situation at all. I don't know why that even exists.


It's a storage chest with boobs, what's not to like?



Well since you put it that way... How can anyone argue against that.
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#9 Jul 30 2013 at 9:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gnu wrote:


It's a storage chest with boobs, what's not to like?



But I play a girl toon so its a guy retainer.. ; ;
#10 Jul 30 2013 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Unless gear is removed by vendors, the only tradeskill items you will be looking for in the market outside of food are going to fall into at least one of the following:

  • Not being sold by a vendor
  • Is a HQ version
  • Is cheaper than vendor price


Unless I'm forgetting something, we already know gear with spiritbond is unsellable once you wear it. It binds to you to start the spiritbond process. What you do with the resulting materia is a different story though. However, as far as I could tell in Phase 3, you can't go above 5 materia slots per item, even with the ability to socket extras at a higher risk.

Ignoring food, HQ Consumables MAY have a market because the HQ result has a shorter cooldown -- I think it was either 10% or 20%.

The retainer situation exists because FFXI had a bazaar option where you'd sell stuff from your own inventory while (usually) AFK. They took that in XIV 1.0 and made an NPC who would do that for you, and created retainer wards to put them in for selling. Since back then, you had to physically go to the retainer who had the goods you wanted, this caused other issues that end with the net result of the wards crashing every day and people having to set up retainers again after each crash.

Fast forward to now, where picking the retainer simply designates which city you are technically selling from (assuming you remembered to send them to different cities) in order to take advantage of the rotating tax rate. (And remember that you can choose to put items up from sale from your own inventory -- don't need to move it to the retainer for that.)
#11 Jul 30 2013 at 9:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Materia and melding catalysts were in high demand on my server in phase 3. I made a good chunk of gil selling items for crafting guild quests that people were too lazy to make themselves. Plus, with most crafts requiring some subcrafts early on, I was in a position to help people out /shouting in Ul'dah for little things like cotton thread. Building up a word-of-mouth customer base for people to go to you before the Market Wards seems to be the way to go, at least for me. I love helping people out, so I want to become self-sufficient to have that group of customers that will come to me first. Reputation feels like it'll be the gamebreaker for the economy, with trickling profits from the Market Wards coming in second.
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#12 Jul 30 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
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silverhope wrote:
Gnu wrote:


It's a storage chest with boobs, what's not to like?



But I play a girl toon so its a guy retainer.. ; ;


I'm pretty sure you get to pick your retainer's appearance by open beta/launch. They were automatically chosen for you in phase 3.
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#13 Jul 30 2013 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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KarlHungis wrote:
In the long run it looks like crafting is mostly going to be about providing consumables and materia. Apart from the crafting/gathering gear, it looks like all of the craftable gear will be easily surpassed by dungeon gear.


I dont think crafted gear will be easily passed, i believe it will be on par, like you can eather get good gear by running dungeons or spend your time gathering HQ items and craft HQ gear, around lvl 15, HQ gear started adding more stats plus you can meld materia to it, so well see how it plays out.
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#14 Jul 30 2013 at 10:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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IMFW wrote:
KarlHungis wrote:
In the long run it looks like crafting is mostly going to be about providing consumables and materia. Apart from the crafting/gathering gear, it looks like all of the craftable gear will be easily surpassed by dungeon gear.


I dont think crafted gear will be easily passed, i believe it will be on par, like you can eather get good gear by running dungeons or spend your time gathering HQ items and craft HQ gear, around lvl 15, HQ gear started adding more stats plus you can meld materia to it, so well see how it plays out.


HQ Crafting gear has a higher potential because of the materia slots and equivalent stats to dungeon gear (at least at lower level) before slotting that materia in, yes. (I passed on a dungeon scepter for my THM at 15 because my HQ one had near-identical stats -- only the 4th stat was different, and it wasn't a higher or lower stat either.) However, if you try melding in materia, you have to see what the prompts say about the effectiveness. It looks like there's another counter or something keeping track of what you slot with materia, because you will get diminished returns (to the point where it might be worthless) if you put in materia that's considered too good for the gear. For example, it's possible for you to meld +1 Ice in an armor with full benefits, and then when you try to meld another one, it tells you that you won't get anything out of melding it.
#15 Jul 30 2013 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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Ravashack wrote:
IMFW wrote:
KarlHungis wrote:
In the long run it looks like crafting is mostly going to be about providing consumables and materia. Apart from the crafting/gathering gear, it looks like all of the craftable gear will be easily surpassed by dungeon gear.


I dont think crafted gear will be easily passed, i believe it will be on par, like you can eather get good gear by running dungeons or spend your time gathering HQ items and craft HQ gear, around lvl 15, HQ gear started adding more stats plus you can meld materia to it, so well see how it plays out.


HQ Crafting gear has a higher potential because of the materia slots and equivalent stats to dungeon gear (at least at lower level) before slotting that materia in, yes. (I passed on a dungeon scepter for my THM at 15 because my HQ one had near-identical stats -- only the 4th stat was different, and it wasn't a higher or lower stat either.) However, if you try melding in materia, you have to see what the prompts say about the effectiveness. It looks like there's another counter or something keeping track of what you slot with materia, because you will get diminished returns (to the point where it might be worthless) if you put in materia that's considered too good for the gear. For example, it's possible for you to meld +1 Ice in an armor with full benefits, and then when you try to meld another one, it tells you that you won't get anything out of melding it.



Yeah i ran into that,had a HQ brass ring with +2acc on it, i melded an acc +2 materia on it, but it said it will only raise by 1acc instead of the 2. Another thing i read is that there will be alot of recipes for mog house decor, that should keep the econnomy rolling for the crafters.
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#16 Jul 30 2013 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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Wow thanks for the great replies... I guess I will need to learn a craft that will be able to attach materia... it looks like that will be a main part of the economy as a whole.
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#17 Jul 30 2013 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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Hairspray wrote:

What are the pitfalls you think they will need to avoid?

Gil and items have to enter and leave the system in an equal measure. Then everything will be cool.


Quote:
Will armor be un-sellable after you wear it like in WoW? Or will armor be re-sellable like in FFXI?

Yes. Spiritbound armour cannot be sold to other players. Only to NPC's.
#18 Jul 30 2013 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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Basically i see this money cycle on the legacy servers "the same as of the end of FF14" craft 30k or way less worth of materials to make rank 45 to 50 items for spirit bond party items, sell each piece to them for 60 to 90k = profit. They grind for the good materia to get a friend to attach all else they sell,cheap.Buy the cheap materia put it on lower level items they sell faster than normal items.It was a good racket in FF14 till the low levels dried up and the last catalyst gatherers sold their pieces higher. If the making, selling and attaching materia is the same as 14 the want +1 and extra stat ppl will run the economy.
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#19 Jul 30 2013 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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Arnulf wrote:
Hairspray wrote:

What are the pitfalls you think they will need to avoid?

Gil and items have to enter and leave the system in an equal measure. Then everything will be cool.

That's a good idea for a stable economy, but not something that would work at all while the game is growing in it's early stages.
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#20 Jul 30 2013 at 2:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Warmech wrote:
Basically i see this money cycle on the legacy servers "the same as of the end of FF14" craft 30k or way less worth of materials to make rank 45 to 50 items for spirit bond party items, sell each piece to them for 60 to 90k = profit. They grind for the good materia to get a friend to attach all else they sell,cheap.Buy the cheap materia put it on lower level items they sell faster than normal items.It was a good racket in FF14 till the low levels dried up and the last catalyst gatherers sold their pieces higher. If the making, selling and attaching materia is the same as 14 the want +1 and extra stat ppl will run the economy.


That sounds about right to me. The +1 and extra stat people are going to be the ones who push the limits on the price of higher level items.

I remember when I got my first Scorpion Harness in FFXI around 2004... I spent a million gil on it and, as ugly as that thing was, it looked **** because it was the best item in the game I could afford at the time.

Those same Scorpion Harnesses were still a staple in the game 5 years later for people in Aht Urghan as they were in Jeuno way back when...

I can't wait to see it in action....

What crafting class would you guys recommend for a DRG or LNC who wants to get materia in his armor? Armorer or Blacksmith?
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#21 Jul 30 2013 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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Leatherworker or Armorer.

Blacksmith is weapons and most tools.

LNC weapons are Carpenter, in case that thought popped up too.

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I'd recommend Leatherworker because Armorer is primarily plate. Weaver does have a few DOW pieces as well I think.

Edited, Jul 30th 2013 4:25pm by Ravashack
#22 Jul 30 2013 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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Ravashack wrote:
Leatherworker or Armorer.

Blacksmith is weapons and most tools.

LNC weapons are Carpenter, in case that thought popped up too.



Awesome thanks! Maybe I will focus on Leatherworking then as a crafting class. That seems to make sense for my own armor/materia.
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#23 Jul 30 2013 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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yea i plan on doing cooking/weaving for money and materia maker lol
#24 Jul 30 2013 at 4:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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IMFW wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
IMFW wrote:
KarlHungis wrote:
In the long run it looks like crafting is mostly going to be about providing consumables and materia. Apart from the crafting/gathering gear, it looks like all of the craftable gear will be easily surpassed by dungeon gear.


I dont think crafted gear will be easily passed, i believe it will be on par, like you can eather get good gear by running dungeons or spend your time gathering HQ items and craft HQ gear, around lvl 15, HQ gear started adding more stats plus you can meld materia to it, so well see how it plays out.


HQ Crafting gear has a higher potential because of the materia slots and equivalent stats to dungeon gear (at least at lower level) before slotting that materia in, yes. (I passed on a dungeon scepter for my THM at 15 because my HQ one had near-identical stats -- only the 4th stat was different, and it wasn't a higher or lower stat either.) However, if you try melding in materia, you have to see what the prompts say about the effectiveness. It looks like there's another counter or something keeping track of what you slot with materia, because you will get diminished returns (to the point where it might be worthless) if you put in materia that's considered too good for the gear. For example, it's possible for you to meld +1 Ice in an armor with full benefits, and then when you try to meld another one, it tells you that you won't get anything out of melding it.



Yeah i ran into that,had a HQ brass ring with +2acc on it, i melded an acc +2 materia on it, but it said it will only raise by 1acc instead of the 2. Another thing i read is that there will be alot of recipes for mog house decor, that should keep the econnomy rolling for the crafters.

I had the same issue in P3 - with accuracy and all! (not sure if it was a ring though). I remember reading somewhere else (can't for the life of me think where atm) that it was theorized that the item level requirement dictated the "max" amount of each stat the item could contain. So, you level 15 ring can only have +3 to either a) each stat, or b) accuracy only. If a), it would prevent single stat stacking, especially on endgame gear. If b) each stat would have it's own limit (probably related to level), which would require a whole lot more research, and would make stat allocation/BiS towards endgame even more complex!
#25 Jul 30 2013 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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I can't prove it, but I'm on the side of "each stat has its own limit." When I started adding Materia to my tradeskill gear, I'd have some cases where adding one type of Tier 1 materia gave diminished results after I already slotted one successfully, and adding the other types of Tier 1 Materia didn't.
#26 Jul 30 2013 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Atkascha wrote:
silverhope wrote:
Gnu wrote:


It's a storage chest with boobs, what's not to like?



But I play a girl toon so its a guy retainer.. ; ;


I'm pretty sure you get to pick your retainer's appearance by open beta/launch. They were automatically chosen for you in phase 3.
I hope so lol
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