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#1 Jul 30 2013 at 9:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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So I was just thinking a bit about the economy and how it's affected the game enjoyability in previous MMO's I've played, and from what little I was able to gather from playing the beta what might be our experience with it after P4 and launch.

So for the game through the first 20-30 levels, it seems like you really don't need gil for much of anything... you get armor as rewards for questing and as drops from dungeons.. seemingly on par with or even better then the gear you could buy at those levels.

My assumption is that once you get to a certain level of inflation, perhaps a month or two after launch, that the AH prices will start to rise for items that can be crafted that are better than what you can buy off of vendors (my hope anyways) and crafters will be able to earn a living and make extra gil to use for things like rare drops for their combat roles, etc.

I noticed you have to be pretty far into the story to even begin listing items on the AH... level 20+ I believe before retainers become available.

What do you guys see as the future of the FFXIV: ARR economy?

What are the pitfalls you think they will need to avoid?

Will armor be un-sellable after you wear it like in WoW? Or will armor be re-sellable like in FFXI?

Let's discuss. Smiley: cool

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#2 Jul 30 2013 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hairspray wrote:
What do you guys see as the future of the FFXIV: ARR economy?


I see it becoming more adaptable and long lasting than FFXI's that's for damned sure. For one, the gathering isn't as onerous as it was for FFXI so there will be a higher supply of goods at any given time and the inventory management will erase a lot of issues that farming/gathering had in FFXI (and in other MMOs really because 99 a stack is nice).

Plus, gear will always be needed for materia melding and crafters will supply that aspect. Just think about it like this: for gear on your 2nd/3rd/4th class you're leveling you're more than likely going to be using materia. On average you'll have 2 slots and you'll *want* to push double or triple melding just to make the leveling easier (and personally more fun to me). Take a chest piece with 2 materia slots and just double melding that's four pieces of gear.... assuming you're trying yourself, you get the materia you want AND you don't fail the double meld. If you go triple melding that's five minimum and you're talking astronomical odds.....and this is all for one piece of gear.

Now count up all the gear that's nuked into materia that you don't want at that time. Up on the market it goes because they're all stats someone is going to use. With the way crafting is set up to support the materia system (and vice versa) I really don't see the market for a set level ever really disappear. You can only add so much of a stat to a piece of gear so just slapping in the highest level materia won't work (and is a massive waste), thus the actual level materia of the gear is better.

The plus side is because gear is always needed to be spiritbound and nuked the items needed to craft them will be needed as well. Sure, two or three years down the line the demand will level off to a comfortable level but with such a system being built in from the ground up it's definitely set up for long term stability.

Hairspray wrote:
What are the pitfalls you think they will need to avoid?


Don't go too crazy trying to stamp out RMT that you abuse and frustrate your playerbase. Considering anything NQ vendors for 1 gil and anything HQ vendors for 2 gil they've already established the concept of "You won't be vendoring anything easily for free cash." and RMT thrives on those types of gil making processes.

Hairspray wrote:
Will armor be un-sellable after you wear it like in WoW? Or will armor be re-sellable like in FFXI?


That's answer the first time you fight with a piece of gear that's crafted or bought. The second you get experience it binds it to you. And it's a way I'd prefer it.
#3 Jul 30 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hairspray wrote:


What do you guys see as the future of the FFXIV: ARR economy?

What are the pitfalls you think they will need to avoid?

Will armor be un-sellable after you wear it like in WoW? Or will armor be re-sellable like in FFXI?

Let's discuss. Smiley: cool



I think that the ARR economy will be like all other games it will take about a month for items to really show up and than an other month or so for the prices to lvl out abit. I think the lvl 20 restrictions will help in the long run with botters even if it slows them down alittle it will be just that much better.

Pitfalls.. I dont think there are many other than having to use a retainer to sell things. If maybe you could call your retainer anywhere it would be a plus but to have to walk 10 feet from the market board to sell things than walk back to buy seems alittle silly. I wish the reatiner was just a bank.

Armor you get will become unsellable once you put it on I think. But in no way is it like FFXI I remember reading something about this being done to help crafters still have a place in the market.
#4 Jul 30 2013 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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silverhope wrote:
Hairspray wrote:


What do you guys see as the future of the FFXIV: ARR economy?

What are the pitfalls you think they will need to avoid?

Will armor be un-sellable after you wear it like in WoW? Or will armor be re-sellable like in FFXI?

Let's discuss. Smiley: cool



I think that the ARR economy will be like all other games it will take about a month for items to really show up and than an other month or so for the prices to lvl out abit. I think the lvl 20 restrictions will help in the long run with botters even if it slows them down alittle it will be just that much better.

Pitfalls.. I dont think there are many other than having to use a retainer to sell things. If maybe you could call your retainer anywhere it would be a plus but to have to walk 10 feet from the market board to sell things than walk back to buy seems alittle silly. I wish the reatiner was just a bank.

Armor you get will become unsellable once you put it on I think. But in no way is it like FFXI I remember reading something about this being done to help crafters still have a place in the market.


Yeah I really don't understand the retainer situation at all. I don't know why that even exists.
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#5 Jul 30 2013 at 9:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hairspray wrote:
Yeah I really don't understand the retainer situation at all. I don't know why that even exists.


It's a storage chest with boobs, what's not to like?

#6 Jul 30 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hairspray wrote:


Yeah I really don't understand the retainer situation at all. I don't know why that even exists.



I think its more of.. saving a failed experiment.. than anything. I mean i understand it saved space.. Dont need to have Bank NPCs but I would rather have 100 bank spots per char than 100 bank spots per account per server.
#7 Jul 30 2013 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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In the long run it looks like crafting is mostly going to be about providing consumables and materia. Apart from the crafting/gathering gear, it looks like all of the craftable gear will be easily surpassed by dungeon gear.
#8 Jul 30 2013 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gnu wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
Yeah I really don't understand the retainer situation at all. I don't know why that even exists.


It's a storage chest with boobs, what's not to like?



Well since you put it that way... How can anyone argue against that.
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#9 Jul 30 2013 at 9:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gnu wrote:


It's a storage chest with boobs, what's not to like?



But I play a girl toon so its a guy retainer.. ; ;
#10 Jul 30 2013 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Unless gear is removed by vendors, the only tradeskill items you will be looking for in the market outside of food are going to fall into at least one of the following:

  • Not being sold by a vendor
  • Is a HQ version
  • Is cheaper than vendor price


Unless I'm forgetting something, we already know gear with spiritbond is unsellable once you wear it. It binds to you to start the spiritbond process. What you do with the resulting materia is a different story though. However, as far as I could tell in Phase 3, you can't go above 5 materia slots per item, even with the ability to socket extras at a higher risk.

Ignoring food, HQ Consumables MAY have a market because the HQ result has a shorter cooldown -- I think it was either 10% or 20%.

The retainer situation exists because FFXI had a bazaar option where you'd sell stuff from your own inventory while (usually) AFK. They took that in XIV 1.0 and made an NPC who would do that for you, and created retainer wards to put them in for selling. Since back then, you had to physically go to the retainer who had the goods you wanted, this caused other issues that end with the net result of the wards crashing every day and people having to set up retainers again after each crash.

Fast forward to now, where picking the retainer simply designates which city you are technically selling from (assuming you remembered to send them to different cities) in order to take advantage of the rotating tax rate. (And remember that you can choose to put items up from sale from your own inventory -- don't need to move it to the retainer for that.)
#11 Jul 30 2013 at 9:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Materia and melding catalysts were in high demand on my server in phase 3. I made a good chunk of gil selling items for crafting guild quests that people were too lazy to make themselves. Plus, with most crafts requiring some subcrafts early on, I was in a position to help people out /shouting in Ul'dah for little things like cotton thread. Building up a word-of-mouth customer base for people to go to you before the Market Wards seems to be the way to go, at least for me. I love helping people out, so I want to become self-sufficient to have that group of customers that will come to me first. Reputation feels like it'll be the gamebreaker for the economy, with trickling profits from the Market Wards coming in second.
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#12 Jul 30 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
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silverhope wrote:
Gnu wrote:


It's a storage chest with boobs, what's not to like?



But I play a girl toon so its a guy retainer.. ; ;


I'm pretty sure you get to pick your retainer's appearance by open beta/launch. They were automatically chosen for you in phase 3.
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#13 Jul 30 2013 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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KarlHungis wrote:
In the long run it looks like crafting is mostly going to be about providing consumables and materia. Apart from the crafting/gathering gear, it looks like all of the craftable gear will be easily surpassed by dungeon gear.


I dont think crafted gear will be easily passed, i believe it will be on par, like you can eather get good gear by running dungeons or spend your time gathering HQ items and craft HQ gear, around lvl 15, HQ gear started adding more stats plus you can meld materia to it, so well see how it plays out.
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#14 Jul 30 2013 at 10:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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IMFW wrote:
KarlHungis wrote:
In the long run it looks like crafting is mostly going to be about providing consumables and materia. Apart from the crafting/gathering gear, it looks like all of the craftable gear will be easily surpassed by dungeon gear.


I dont think crafted gear will be easily passed, i believe it will be on par, like you can eather get good gear by running dungeons or spend your time gathering HQ items and craft HQ gear, around lvl 15, HQ gear started adding more stats plus you can meld materia to it, so well see how it plays out.


HQ Crafting gear has a higher potential because of the materia slots and equivalent stats to dungeon gear (at least at lower level) before slotting that materia in, yes. (I passed on a dungeon scepter for my THM at 15 because my HQ one had near-identical stats -- only the 4th stat was different, and it wasn't a higher or lower stat either.) However, if you try melding in materia, you have to see what the prompts say about the effectiveness. It looks like there's another counter or something keeping track of what you slot with materia, because you will get diminished returns (to the point where it might be worthless) if you put in materia that's considered too good for the gear. For example, it's possible for you to meld +1 Ice in an armor with full benefits, and then when you try to meld another one, it tells you that you won't get anything out of melding it.
#15 Jul 30 2013 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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Ravashack wrote:
IMFW wrote:
KarlHungis wrote:
In the long run it looks like crafting is mostly going to be about providing consumables and materia. Apart from the crafting/gathering gear, it looks like all of the craftable gear will be easily surpassed by dungeon gear.


I dont think crafted gear will be easily passed, i believe it will be on par, like you can eather get good gear by running dungeons or spend your time gathering HQ items and craft HQ gear, around lvl 15, HQ gear started adding more stats plus you can meld materia to it, so well see how it plays out.


HQ Crafting gear has a higher potential because of the materia slots and equivalent stats to dungeon gear (at least at lower level) before slotting that materia in, yes. (I passed on a dungeon scepter for my THM at 15 because my HQ one had near-identical stats -- only the 4th stat was different, and it wasn't a higher or lower stat either.) However, if you try melding in materia, you have to see what the prompts say about the effectiveness. It looks like there's another counter or something keeping track of what you slot with materia, because you will get diminished returns (to the point where it might be worthless) if you put in materia that's considered too good for the gear. For example, it's possible for you to meld +1 Ice in an armor with full benefits, and then when you try to meld another one, it tells you that you won't get anything out of melding it.



Yeah i ran into that,had a HQ brass ring with +2acc on it, i melded an acc +2 materia on it, but it said it will only raise by 1acc instead of the 2. Another thing i read is that there will be alot of recipes for mog house decor, that should keep the econnomy rolling for the crafters.
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#16 Jul 30 2013 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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Wow thanks for the great replies... I guess I will need to learn a craft that will be able to attach materia... it looks like that will be a main part of the economy as a whole.
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#17 Jul 30 2013 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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Hairspray wrote:

What are the pitfalls you think they will need to avoid?

Gil and items have to enter and leave the system in an equal measure. Then everything will be cool.


Quote:
Will armor be un-sellable after you wear it like in WoW? Or will armor be re-sellable like in FFXI?

Yes. Spiritbound armour cannot be sold to other players. Only to NPC's.
#18 Jul 30 2013 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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Basically i see this money cycle on the legacy servers "the same as of the end of FF14" craft 30k or way less worth of materials to make rank 45 to 50 items for spirit bond party items, sell each piece to them for 60 to 90k = profit. They grind for the good materia to get a friend to attach all else they sell,cheap.Buy the cheap materia put it on lower level items they sell faster than normal items.It was a good racket in FF14 till the low levels dried up and the last catalyst gatherers sold their pieces higher. If the making, selling and attaching materia is the same as 14 the want +1 and extra stat ppl will run the economy.
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#19 Jul 30 2013 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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Arnulf wrote:
Hairspray wrote:

What are the pitfalls you think they will need to avoid?

Gil and items have to enter and leave the system in an equal measure. Then everything will be cool.

That's a good idea for a stable economy, but not something that would work at all while the game is growing in it's early stages.
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#20 Jul 30 2013 at 2:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Warmech wrote:
Basically i see this money cycle on the legacy servers "the same as of the end of FF14" craft 30k or way less worth of materials to make rank 45 to 50 items for spirit bond party items, sell each piece to them for 60 to 90k = profit. They grind for the good materia to get a friend to attach all else they sell,cheap.Buy the cheap materia put it on lower level items they sell faster than normal items.It was a good racket in FF14 till the low levels dried up and the last catalyst gatherers sold their pieces higher. If the making, selling and attaching materia is the same as 14 the want +1 and extra stat ppl will run the economy.


That sounds about right to me. The +1 and extra stat people are going to be the ones who push the limits on the price of higher level items.

I remember when I got my first Scorpion Harness in FFXI around 2004... I spent a million gil on it and, as ugly as that thing was, it looked **** because it was the best item in the game I could afford at the time.

Those same Scorpion Harnesses were still a staple in the game 5 years later for people in Aht Urghan as they were in Jeuno way back when...

I can't wait to see it in action....

What crafting class would you guys recommend for a DRG or LNC who wants to get materia in his armor? Armorer or Blacksmith?
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#21 Jul 30 2013 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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Leatherworker or Armorer.

Blacksmith is weapons and most tools.

LNC weapons are Carpenter, in case that thought popped up too.

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I'd recommend Leatherworker because Armorer is primarily plate. Weaver does have a few DOW pieces as well I think.

Edited, Jul 30th 2013 4:25pm by Ravashack
#22 Jul 30 2013 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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Ravashack wrote:
Leatherworker or Armorer.

Blacksmith is weapons and most tools.

LNC weapons are Carpenter, in case that thought popped up too.



Awesome thanks! Maybe I will focus on Leatherworking then as a crafting class. That seems to make sense for my own armor/materia.
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#23 Jul 30 2013 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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yea i plan on doing cooking/weaving for money and materia maker lol
#24 Jul 30 2013 at 4:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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IMFW wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
IMFW wrote:
KarlHungis wrote:
In the long run it looks like crafting is mostly going to be about providing consumables and materia. Apart from the crafting/gathering gear, it looks like all of the craftable gear will be easily surpassed by dungeon gear.


I dont think crafted gear will be easily passed, i believe it will be on par, like you can eather get good gear by running dungeons or spend your time gathering HQ items and craft HQ gear, around lvl 15, HQ gear started adding more stats plus you can meld materia to it, so well see how it plays out.


HQ Crafting gear has a higher potential because of the materia slots and equivalent stats to dungeon gear (at least at lower level) before slotting that materia in, yes. (I passed on a dungeon scepter for my THM at 15 because my HQ one had near-identical stats -- only the 4th stat was different, and it wasn't a higher or lower stat either.) However, if you try melding in materia, you have to see what the prompts say about the effectiveness. It looks like there's another counter or something keeping track of what you slot with materia, because you will get diminished returns (to the point where it might be worthless) if you put in materia that's considered too good for the gear. For example, it's possible for you to meld +1 Ice in an armor with full benefits, and then when you try to meld another one, it tells you that you won't get anything out of melding it.



Yeah i ran into that,had a HQ brass ring with +2acc on it, i melded an acc +2 materia on it, but it said it will only raise by 1acc instead of the 2. Another thing i read is that there will be alot of recipes for mog house decor, that should keep the econnomy rolling for the crafters.

I had the same issue in P3 - with accuracy and all! (not sure if it was a ring though). I remember reading somewhere else (can't for the life of me think where atm) that it was theorized that the item level requirement dictated the "max" amount of each stat the item could contain. So, you level 15 ring can only have +3 to either a) each stat, or b) accuracy only. If a), it would prevent single stat stacking, especially on endgame gear. If b) each stat would have it's own limit (probably related to level), which would require a whole lot more research, and would make stat allocation/BiS towards endgame even more complex!
#25 Jul 30 2013 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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I can't prove it, but I'm on the side of "each stat has its own limit." When I started adding Materia to my tradeskill gear, I'd have some cases where adding one type of Tier 1 materia gave diminished results after I already slotted one successfully, and adding the other types of Tier 1 Materia didn't.
#26 Jul 30 2013 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Atkascha wrote:
silverhope wrote:
Gnu wrote:


It's a storage chest with boobs, what's not to like?



But I play a girl toon so its a guy retainer.. ; ;


I'm pretty sure you get to pick your retainer's appearance by open beta/launch. They were automatically chosen for you in phase 3.
I hope so lol
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#27 Jul 30 2013 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
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Hairspray wrote:

What do you guys see as the future of the FFXIV: ARR economy?


This is a hard question to answer. If you look at the gear you get for quests and lv15+ dungeons, crafting(equipment and consumables) really isn't that big of a deal. Some people will point how you can use spiritbonds from gear into materia slots. While I see that argument, it appears that gear obtained from doing 4 man, 8 man, and higher groups will have superior gear that doesn't have a cost attached to it. Some will say that you need people to fix gear and even that's not true as npc's can do that already for a nominal fee. Duty Finder makes it easier than ever for FFXIV players to get gear without using gil. Crafting is quite enjoyable and painless to do. I don't see much reason for people not to craft this time around.

So if I can honestly answer your question; I'd have to say that the economy is less important than other games people might of played in the past. The focus is on having fun with friends and raiding for uber loot. The few money sinks the game has is barely worth mentioning. Chocobo rentals, dye supplies, crafting supplies, and teleporting to crags hardly calls for an economy where you need to work a second job like Eve Online just to keep enough gold on hand to pay for those things.

I don't think the economy will be an issue nor do I feel RMT will be a threat.
#28 Jul 30 2013 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ravashack wrote:
I can't prove it, but I'm on the side of "each stat has its own limit." When I started adding Materia to my tradeskill gear, I'd have some cases where adding one type of Tier 1 materia gave diminished results after I already slotted one successfully, and adding the other types of Tier 1 Materia didn't.


It's both basically. Testing found out that the stats themselves are capped at their own individual limit that's determined by the iLVL piece of gear. For example you have two level 50 pieces of gear that are both green in quality, yet one is iLVL 50 and the other is iLVL 65. Both have two sockets, but it's only the iLVL 65 that can benefit more from pumping more into a stat you want versus the 50.

They're also not all weighted the same. You may be able to push a +2 stat piece at level 15 into +4 or +5 stat, but Determination may only be able to gain a +1 or +2 increase.

It's a fairly smart move that combines the ability to push the limits on a piece of gear's power for min/max, yet it also places limits so that they're not sooo much higher on an individual piece with something of the same rough iLVLs (within a few). Plus, for people that don't browse forums (or not often) who may not know it reinforces the idea "Dumping a ton of materia into this one stat isn't smart because it's approached the gear's hardcap on this particular stat". It's a nice method of not having to actually having to deal with (and figure out the formulae for) diminishing returns on stat allocation.

Edited, Jul 30th 2013 8:44pm by Viertel
#29 Jul 30 2013 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
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Viertel wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
I can't prove it, but I'm on the side of "each stat has its own limit." When I started adding Materia to my tradeskill gear, I'd have some cases where adding one type of Tier 1 materia gave diminished results after I already slotted one successfully, and adding the other types of Tier 1 Materia didn't.


It's both basically. Testing found out that the stats themselves are capped at their own individual limit that's determined by the iLVL piece of gear. For example you have two level 50 pieces of gear that are both green in quality, yet one is iLVL 50 and the other is iLVL 65. Both have two sockets, but it's only the iLVL 65 that can benefit more from pumping more into a stat you want versus the 50.

They're also not all weighted the same. You may be able to push a +2 stat piece at level 15 into +4 or +5 stat, but Determination may only be able to gain a +1 or +2 increase.

It's a fairly smart move that combines the ability to push the limits on a piece of gear's power for min/max, yet it also places limits so that they're not sooo much higher on an individual piece with something of the same rough iLVLs (within a few). Plus, for people that don't browse forums (or not often) who may not know it reinforces the idea "Dumping a ton of materia into this one stat isn't smart because it's approached the gear's hardcap on this particular stat". It's a nice method of not having to actually having to deal with (and figure out the formulae for) diminishing returns on stat allocation.

Edited, Jul 30th 2013 8:44pm by Viertel

Thanks for the heads-up. And yeah, I like the implementation as well. It may invalidate the "BiS" concept, or at least render it much less vital, as you won't be able to mindlessly push 1/2 stats in any/all augmentation of your gear. Balancing main stat, crit rating, accuracy, determination, skill/cast speed etc. will make many combinations worthwhile. Plus, while the vertical progression for gear is technically there, as you say the stat boost from moving from an ilvl60 to an ilvl65 item won't turn the game into ezymode.

And for the above other comments comparing dungeon to crafted gear - while crafted HQ gear may not have the raw power stat-wise of dungeon gear (and, let's face it - we are speculating about gear strength for 50 crafted vs. 8man vs. 24man content anyway), it is far more customisable via the materia system. If the DoW DD gear (MNK/DRG stuff) from 50 dungeons is crit-heavy, working some crafted pieces with accuracy & determination stats + materia boosts may well be useful.

In summary - the game won't revolve around the economy - clearly. But with the constant destruction of gear to feed the materia system (and overclocking newly acquired gear will chew though materia), and utilised gear being unsellable between players, every profession is effectively creating consumables - just "to be consumed" over varying lengths of time. And previous MMO experience tells us that consumable professions tend to have the greatest longevity.
#30 Jul 30 2013 at 7:14 PM Rating: Good
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SuikodenXXX wrote:
Atkascha wrote:
silverhope wrote:
Gnu wrote:


It's a storage chest with boobs, what's not to like?



But I play a girl toon so its a guy retainer.. ; ;


I'm pretty sure you get to pick your retainer's appearance by open beta/launch. They were automatically chosen for you in phase 3.
I hope so lol


This made me lawl.

So does the retainer kind of work like a companion? Or are they just my slave thing?

This is important as it will determine what gender I make them. Smiley: sly
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#31 Jul 30 2013 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
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Stilivan wrote:


This made me lawl.

So does the retainer kind of work like a companion? Or are they just my slave thing?

This is important as it will determine what gender I make them. Smiley: sly


They are pretty much your city-slaves.
#32 Jul 30 2013 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
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Ravashack wrote:
Stilivan wrote:


This made me lawl.

So does the retainer kind of work like a companion? Or are they just my slave thing?

This is important as it will determine what gender I make them. Smiley: sly


They are pretty much your city-slaves.


That's pretty neato, thanks. I guess I can sic my chocobo at things for my companion fill.
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#33 Jul 30 2013 at 8:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Anybody who spends a decent amount of time crafting will be able to make more money than they need selling in the market even at sub-standard pricing. High quality items are not hard to make, and materia sells well and pretty much falls in your lap as you spiritbond anyway.

All a retainer is for is so you can sell items in the market and to hold your overflow items, but you can only sell in one city at a time which seems unnecessarily restrictive. Although I can see it would be advantageous to focus your items on the city where the jobs that use those items reside.

Sure the high level high quality items should fetch good money as there are less and less people crafting that high, but with all the easy ways to make money, all the nice drops you can't sell anyway, and the fact that selling a good item you may not need for 100 gil is still a lot better than selling it for 1 gil - the question is why is the economy even relevant? It seems they've done so much to stifle RMT that they've essentially made money into the proverbial 'no object'.
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#34 Jul 30 2013 at 8:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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ErikHighwind wrote:
Anybody who spends a decent amount of time crafting will be able to make more money than they need selling in the market even at sub-standard pricing. High quality items are not hard to make, and materia sells well and pretty much falls in your lap as you spiritbond anyway.

All a retainer is for is so you can sell items in the market and to hold your overflow items, but you can only sell in one city at a time which seems unnecessarily restrictive. Although I can see it would be advantageous to focus your items on the city where the jobs that use those items reside.

Sure the high level high quality items should fetch good money as there are less and less people crafting that high, but with all the easy ways to make money, all the nice drops you can't sell anyway, and the fact that selling a good item you may not need for 100 gil is still a lot better than selling it for 1 gil - the question is why is the economy even relevant? It seems they've done so much to stifle RMT that they've essentially made money into the proverbial 'no object'.


The retainer's goods are accessible in all cities. Designating a city for the retainer is simply for the rotating tax rate, which will be reduced in some cities and not reduced in others. This changes on a regular basis, so if you check where the tax rate is reduced every day and move your retainer(s) as appropriate, you will have less of your sales taxed for more profit. Or if the regular tax is not enough of a difference from the reduced rate for you to bother moving the retainer(s), you can leave them as is.

Edit: Word change for clarification.

Edited, Jul 30th 2013 10:37pm by Ravashack
#35 Jul 30 2013 at 9:01 PM Rating: Decent
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ErikHighwind wrote:


Sure the high level high quality items should fetch good money as there are less and less people crafting that high, but with all the easy ways to make money, all the nice drops you can't sell anyway, and the fact that selling a good item you may not need for 100 gil is still a lot better than selling it for 1 gil - the question is why is the economy even relevant? It seems they've done so much to stifle RMT that they've essentially made money into the proverbial 'no object'.


That was my assessment as well. It's so strange for me since I'm switching from FFXI to FFXIV. I remember the high ticket craftable items like the Scorpion Harness and the Hauby that used to cost millions simply because SE limited the materials required to make them. Although despite the gear that binds on your character, it's like the game keeps throwing gear at you without even trying so it doesn't matter. Consumables of arrows/bullets/ninja tools were costly in FFXI, but I don't see any consumables in FFXIV that break the bank. I have this feeling that craftable gear will primarily be sold to players that don't wish to do the hardcore endgame content like the Crystal Tower or the Bahamut fights. People say we'll still have RMT, but that begs the question, who is buying gil and why would they. Unless SE follows the same game-plan from FFXI's relic weapons, I don't see any use at all for buying gil no matter how casual you are.
#36 Jul 30 2013 at 9:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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I spent 90% of my Gil in P3 on teleporting and repairs. Both of those things can be easily replaced with free versions. I think the only gear I bough were some jewelry pieces. By the time I got to where I couldn't make my own stuff I was getting comparable versions from dungeon runs.
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#37 Jul 30 2013 at 10:07 PM Rating: Good
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This is an awesome thread. I've been out of the loop for a while so there is lots of good info in here. I don't really understand how creating materia works... Maybe someone can clear this up for me. As I understand it, you have to wear gear, do stuff with it on, then eventually it's spiritbond will reach 100%. Once this happens you can create a piece of random materia by destroying this gear? So... to create high level materia you have to wear high level gear then destroy it... How long does it take to get spiritbond to 100%? Does this mean that people will be wearing gear they don't actually like just to "farm" materia? I don't like the sound of that.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 12:08am by ScrapTower
#38 Jul 30 2013 at 10:34 PM Rating: Good
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if you sell to spirit bond parties you know they buy in bulk and buy the cheapest item 1st. They make materia and sell it so they can buy the expensive ones if they can't make it.It's supply and demand
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#39 Jul 30 2013 at 10:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Warmech wrote:
if you sell to spirit bond parties you know they buy in bulk and buy the cheapest item 1st. They make materia and sell it so they can buy the expensive ones if they can't make it.It's supply and demand


So my initial interpretation was correct. They've created a system that requires grinding in sub-optimal gear to farm materia. I'm not sure I like that.

I like that spiritbonding made armor essentially a consumable which keeps crafting profitable, however I didn't know what spiritbonding actually did until today.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 12:51am by ScrapTower
#40 Jul 31 2013 at 2:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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ScrapTower wrote:
Warmech wrote:
if you sell to spirit bond parties you know they buy in bulk and buy the cheapest item 1st. They make materia and sell it so they can buy the expensive ones if they can't make it.It's supply and demand


So my initial interpretation was correct. They've created a system that requires grinding in sub-optimal gear to farm materia. I'm not sure I like that.

I like that spiritbonding made armor essentially a consumable which keeps crafting profitable, however I didn't know what spiritbonding actually did until today.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 12:51am by ScrapTower

Well, it's true to an extent. But the level of the materia (from 1 - 5) is dictated by the level of the gear that is converted. So level 15 gear won't convert into grade 5 materia. But yes, people will be looking for cheap gear @ a certain level (let's say 41, giving a 10 level spread between each materia tier. In saying that, level 15+ stuff I converted in p3 was still tier 1 - maybe you need to convert level 50 gear for tier 5 stuff? Would help this "sub-optimal grind" a bit.), grinding exp on it (FATEs would be good for this, as speculation), converting it trying to hit the "right" materia, and selling it if not, as most types of materia will become useful to at least 1 class/job.
#41 Jul 31 2013 at 7:37 AM Rating: Decent
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ScrapTower wrote:
Warmech wrote:
if you sell to spirit bond parties you know they buy in bulk and buy the cheapest item 1st. They make materia and sell it so they can buy the expensive ones if they can't make it.It's supply and demand


So my initial interpretation was correct. They've created a system that requires grinding in sub-optimal gear to farm materia. I'm not sure I like that.

I like that spiritbonding made armor essentially a consumable which keeps crafting profitable, however I didn't know what spiritbonding actually did until today.


Then don't worry about making your own materia if it upsets you that much. Just buy the materia and move along if it doesn't interest you; not all aspects of the game will (and that's just a fact towards everyone).

The fodder out in the world is easily killed relatively brainlessly with quested items and crafted ones are usually a slight step up above that. It isn't like you're taking off all of your God gear from sky and trying to go solo weapons in the palace with vendor gear.
#42 Jul 31 2013 at 7:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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carmelita wrote:
In summary - the game won't revolve around the economy - clearly. But with the constant destruction of gear to feed the materia system (and overclocking newly acquired gear will chew though materia), and utilised gear being unsellable between players, every profession is effectively creating consumables - just "to be consumed" over varying lengths of time. And previous MMO experience tells us that consumable professions tend to have the greatest longevity.


I hadn't really thought about it from this perspective before, but it's a really intriguing concept. I love the idea that all crafting classes will have utility due to the constant turnover of gear (or actual consumables like food, potions, ethers). I was initially worried at how easy it was to grind out a stack of something like copper ore on a gathering class, but with how much of the low level gear becomes spirtbind fodder, I can see this being incredibly useful. They really did a wonderful job of fleshing out the crafting portion of the game.

I still think gathering needs to have a little more variability (perhaps some gathering FATEs or some actual quests in towns that only pop up when you are on the correct class).

I'm still curious as to what will be more profitable, gathering classes or crafting classes. With the shear volume of mats you can obtain gathering, I can see it being incredibly lucrative, especially at higher levels for stuff like the grade 5 dark matter or materia bonding agent (can't remember what it was called), as well as just the high level mats needed to make certain gear. I'm wondering how self-sufficient people will be, or how dependant they will be on the market to buy these base mats.

Man, this game just needs to come out now. Smiley: lol
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#43 Jul 31 2013 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
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Gotta remember that doing instances is not hte only way to spiritbind gear. Fates and leves and even gathering/crafting help this. Do you really need to farm fates in your best of the best gear? I wouldent even if the process was changed due to repair costs. I like to keep my good gear rdy for instances.

Plus once you spiritbind and break the gear to materia there is no reason to repair it heh. so its a win win.
#44 Jul 31 2013 at 8:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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silverhope wrote:
Gotta remember that doing instances is not hte only way to spiritbind gear. Fates and leves and even gathering/crafting help this.


The question that occurs to me is: why am I doing fates and leves at 50, except to grind out materia?
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#45 Jul 31 2013 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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KarlHungis wrote:
silverhope wrote:
Gotta remember that doing instances is not hte only way to spiritbind gear. Fates and leves and even gathering/crafting help this.


The question that occurs to me is: why am I doing fates and leves at 50, except to grind out materia?


GC Leves for marks and GC Hunting Log. FATEs for marks if they still give em out on release and possibly gear for "endgame-style" FATEs. Also good for messing with your battle rotations to try and improve your own performance.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 10:31am by BartelX
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#46 Jul 31 2013 at 8:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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KarlHungis wrote:
silverhope wrote:
Gotta remember that doing instances is not hte only way to spiritbind gear. Fates and leves and even gathering/crafting help this.


The question that occurs to me is: why am I doing fates and leves at 50, except to grind out materia?


The Level 50 FATES have their own rewards. Behemoth etc. have other drops than just exp, gil, and seals

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 10:33am by Deathbuyer
#47 Jul 31 2013 at 8:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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This has turned into a fascinating thread. I've been wondering myself if I should level gathering classes (Botany and Miner first) to 50 before tackling crafting. I wouldn't have to break up what I'm doing for the sake of gathering mats. In the beta I noticed a lot of people /shouting for mats like elm/yew logs which are around level ~16-20 Botany. The HQ versions sold pretty well for me on the Market Wards. For those people who can't stand gathering, there is a profit to be made with selling leftover materials. The lesson to take away from here is to make a profit by putting in work that others can't be bothered to do. Selling crystals/shards/materia/catalysts/spiritbond gear/high level mats will be profitable enough.
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#48 Jul 31 2013 at 9:08 AM Rating: Excellent
Atkascha wrote:
This has turned into a fascinating thread. I've been wondering myself if I should level gathering classes (Botany and Miner first) to 50 before tackling crafting. I wouldn't have to break up what I'm doing for the sake of gathering mats. In the beta I noticed a lot of people /shouting for mats like elm/yew logs which are around level ~16-20 Botany. The HQ versions sold pretty well for me on the Market Wards. For those people who can't stand gathering, there is a profit to be made with selling leftover materials. The lesson to take away from here is to make a profit by putting in work that others can't be bothered to do. Selling crystals/shards/materia/catalysts/spiritbond gear/high level mats will be profitable enough.


This is what I did for gil in 1.0. I started leveling Botanist to gather my own mats but found it to be more profitable to sell those mats to other people. I also made a tidy little profit selling base mats (cotton thread, lumber, ingots etc) to crafters. I do agree with what other people are saying about the economy not being a huge factor like it was in XI.
#49 Jul 31 2013 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Atkascha wrote:
This has turned into a fascinating thread. I've been wondering myself if I should level gathering classes (Botany and Miner first) to 50 before tackling crafting. I wouldn't have to break up what I'm doing for the sake of gathering mats. In the beta I noticed a lot of people /shouting for mats like elm/yew logs which are around level ~16-20 Botany. The HQ versions sold pretty well for me on the Market Wards. For those people who can't stand gathering, there is a profit to be made with selling leftover materials. The lesson to take away from here is to make a profit by putting in work that others can't be bothered to do. Selling crystals/shards/materia/catalysts/spiritbond gear/high level mats will be profitable enough.


This is what I did for gil in 1.0. I started leveling Botanist to gather my own mats but found it to be more profitable to sell those mats to other people. I also made a tidy little profit selling base mats (cotton thread, lumber, ingots etc) to crafters. I do agree with what other people are saying about the economy not being a huge factor like it was in XI.


I consider that a good thing. I crafted in FFXI but what a giant pain it was... it seemed like unless you were a high-level goldsmith you were not really making good money.

I was 100+6 on Woodworking and could barely break even on Demon Arrows unless I made my own arrowheads.

It will be refreshing to play a game where the economy is not so messed up and favors only a few players.

I'm actually considering doing Alchemy and Leatherworking so I can work on my own armor and make potions and materia for sale.
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#50 Jul 31 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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Viertel wrote:
ScrapTower wrote:
Warmech wrote:
if you sell to spirit bond parties you know they buy in bulk and buy the cheapest item 1st. They make materia and sell it so they can buy the expensive ones if they can't make it.It's supply and demand


So my initial interpretation was correct. They've created a system that requires grinding in sub-optimal gear to farm materia. I'm not sure I like that.

I like that spiritbonding made armor essentially a consumable which keeps crafting profitable, however I didn't know what spiritbonding actually did until today.


Then don't worry about making your own materia if it upsets you that much. Just buy the materia and move along if it doesn't interest you; not all aspects of the game will (and that's just a fact towards everyone).

The fodder out in the world is easily killed relatively brainlessly with quested items and crafted ones are usually a slight step up above that. It isn't like you're taking off all of your God gear from sky and trying to go solo weapons in the palace with vendor gear.


I'm not complaining, it's just not the system that I would pick. I would argue however that buying the best materia will probably not be an option for most players due to it's likely very high cost. It will have to be farmed, which means spending a significant amount of time in disposable "spiritbond gear". I have no problem with the creation of materia requiring a grind in some form or another. It's the forced gear setup that bothers me.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 1:26pm by ScrapTower
#51 Jul 31 2013 at 1:05 PM Rating: Excellent
Hairspray wrote:
SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Atkascha wrote:
This has turned into a fascinating thread. I've been wondering myself if I should level gathering classes (Botany and Miner first) to 50 before tackling crafting. I wouldn't have to break up what I'm doing for the sake of gathering mats. In the beta I noticed a lot of people /shouting for mats like elm/yew logs which are around level ~16-20 Botany. The HQ versions sold pretty well for me on the Market Wards. For those people who can't stand gathering, there is a profit to be made with selling leftover materials. The lesson to take away from here is to make a profit by putting in work that others can't be bothered to do. Selling crystals/shards/materia/catalysts/spiritbond gear/high level mats will be profitable enough.


This is what I did for gil in 1.0. I started leveling Botanist to gather my own mats but found it to be more profitable to sell those mats to other people. I also made a tidy little profit selling base mats (cotton thread, lumber, ingots etc) to crafters. I do agree with what other people are saying about the economy not being a huge factor like it was in XI.


I consider that a good thing. I crafted in FFXI but what a giant pain it was... it seemed like unless you were a high-level goldsmith you were not really making good money.

I was 100+6 on Woodworking and could barely break even on Demon Arrows unless I made my own arrowheads.

It will be refreshing to play a game where the economy is not so messed up and favors only a few players.

I'm actually considering doing Alchemy and Leatherworking so I can work on my own armor and make potions and materia for sale.


I agree. In XI my main source of income was gardening. I leveled Cooking to 75ish and it was a colossal pain. After that I was able to make decent gil but nowhere close to as much as I made gardening. My 1.0 character has all crafting/gathering jobs except Fisher, Culinarian and Alchemist in the 20s so I should be in a good place to support myself at launch.
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