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#177 Aug 30 2013 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Both. The new worlds will be primarily for new characters, but they'd rather go ahead and resolve the infrastructure problems on the existing worlds than force people to leave if they can.


I haven't seen anything from SE stating they'll be expanding the capacity of the current worlds, only adding new ones. Yesterday, Yoshi-P (and someone else) released a lengthy statement that seemed to confirm this.

Catwho, you seem to have a lot of IT knowledge. What have you seen from them that you'd consider to be confirmation that they're expanding the capacity of current worlds (other than just using what should be common sense)?

I'm not trying to be difficult, I just really want to feel better about all of this.
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#178 Aug 30 2013 at 10:44 AM Rating: Excellent
Chialing wrote:
Strummer wrote:
Last night was the first night I had any real trouble (more than 5-10 minutes) logging in. It ended up taking about 45 minutes. The salt in the wounds was that my wife had no trouble getting on (she gets home about an hour before I do).

After about half an hour of watching her play, and wishing I could:

ME: "Hey, who's that Topaz Carbuncle guy who's been in your party this whole time? Tell him to log out so that I can get in!"
WIFE: NotSureIfSerious.jpg

:P


She should be logging you on when she logs on from here on out!


I read this right, and then my mind went right to the gutter.
Both seem to be the correct and always answer, to the question that was not asked.
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#179 Aug 30 2013 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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Took me 2 minutes to get into Leviathan twice last night. There really is no need to stay AFK just to hold your place, but I'm not gonna blame you if you do. I just am not comfortable putting my PC through that, but can someone more tech savvy tell me if that is even an issue? If I have the game running non stop for 24-48 hours etc, is that bad for my PC?
#180 Aug 30 2013 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
I don't get all the hububb... I don't have any waits logging in :\ Never have.
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#181 Aug 30 2013 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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Arjuncorpse wrote:
Took me 2 minutes to get into Leviathan twice last night. There really is no need to stay AFK just to hold your place, but I'm not gonna blame you if you do. I just am not comfortable putting my PC through that, but can someone more tech savvy tell me if that is even an issue? If I have the game running non stop for 24-48 hours etc, is that bad for my PC?


Depends on the server, on Excalibur I have not been able to log into the server before 12am EST all week and I even took the day off today and its still full in the middle of the day.
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#182 Aug 30 2013 at 12:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Both. The new worlds will be primarily for new characters, but they'd rather go ahead and resolve the infrastructure problems on the existing worlds than force people to leave if they can.


I haven't seen anything from SE stating they'll be expanding the capacity of the current worlds, only adding new ones. Yesterday, Yoshi-P (and someone else) released a lengthy statement that seemed to confirm this.

Catwho, you seem to have a lot of IT knowledge. What have you seen from them that you'd consider to be confirmation that they're expanding the capacity of current worlds (other than just using what should be common sense)?

I'm not trying to be difficult, I just really want to feel better about all of this.


I'm pretty sure I remember reading in one of the Yoshi P comments that they're adding in infrastructure not only for extra worlds, but for the servers to handle more connections, period. For example, the cross-server Duty Finder simply couldn't handle the number of requests hammering it - they had two servers dedicated to it and split the DF applicants into two pools, but now they're going to split them into more. This was one of the stability issues that caused the 90000 error and problems with instances. Adding in more Duty Finder servers will allow them to increase the capacity of people across all worlds as well as individual worlds, both new and existing.

I'm also guessing that some of the additional hardware mentioned is the networking guts for each of the data centers, which simply couldn't handle 100,000 simultaneous users. They're likely having to go from the standard data center infrastructure which can handle spikes of 10.000 users at once before they choke, on to ISP grade switches and routers which can handle many more.

I'm officially a software analyst and not a hardware analyst, but my understanding is that the world capacity limit was put in place not because the world couldn't hold any more characters, but because the world was unstable past a certain point. They've slowly adjusted the numbers (from a hard cap of 180,000 to 218,000 as of the last letter) because they're proceeding cautiously and don't quite know where the breaking point is.

Edited, Aug 30th 2013 2:24pm by Catwho
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#183 Aug 30 2013 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Both. The new worlds will be primarily for new characters, but they'd rather go ahead and resolve the infrastructure problems on the existing worlds than force people to leave if they can.

I haven't seen anything from SE stating they'll be expanding the capacity of the current worlds, only adding new ones. Yesterday, Yoshi-P (and someone else) released a lengthy statement that seemed to confirm this.

That's the feeling I got as well. He said that FFXIV Worlds were designed to handle 5,000 players logged in at the same time. He mentioned that a World can handle more created characters than that, provided that there is some distribution of them over the course of a day (i.e. not everyone plays during the same time of day). It also sounds like in practice a World might struggle with fewer players than that if they are all concentrated in a few zones within that World, which tends to be more of a problem when the game launches than it will be in the future.

I get the feeling that they are partly counting on the player population spreading out to zones other than the starting cities in time as players level up. Ultimately though, I didn't get the feeling that they were going to attempt to change existing Worlds to handle more than 5k players at once. SE may attempt to address this similar to how they handled launching new Worlds in FFXI: offer free transfers to one of the new Worlds.
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#184 Aug 30 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Default
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svlyons wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Both. The new worlds will be primarily for new characters, but they'd rather go ahead and resolve the infrastructure problems on the existing worlds than force people to leave if they can.

I haven't seen anything from SE stating they'll be expanding the capacity of the current worlds, only adding new ones. Yesterday, Yoshi-P (and someone else) released a lengthy statement that seemed to confirm this.

That's the feeling I got as well. He said that FFXIV Worlds were designed to handle 5,000 players logged in at the same time. He mentioned that a World can handle more created characters than that, provided that there is some distribution of them over the course of a day (i.e. not everyone plays during the same time of day). It also sounds like in practice a World might struggle with fewer players than that if they are all concentrated in a few zones within that World, which tends to be more of a problem when the game launches than it will be in the future.

I get the feeling that they are partly counting on the player population spreading out to zones other than the starting cities in time as players level up. Ultimately though, I didn't get the feeling that they were going to attempt to change existing Worlds to handle more than 5k players at once. SE may attempt to address this similar to how they handled launching new Worlds in FFXI: offer free transfers to one of the new Worlds.

For one SE has never had free server transfers afaik. They already stated server transfers will cost $ (likely 20 dollars). That alone will turn many off from leaving a crowded server. Second people have already found FC'c, LS's, and made friends on their server so that alone also will hamper that effort. Thirdly what about legacy servers? Those are the most crowded because SE in its wisdom decided to have them open to new players as well, so people rushed onto the four NA legacy servers (which seem to be the most crowded.)
#185 Aug 30 2013 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I barely got to play thanks to people doing this. Server was always full, so now that i finally got in again on Friday... I really dont plan to logout again. Next thing you know i wont be able to get into the server again till the next friday.

It's a bit of a shame it had to come to this. But if no one else is going to log in to free up space, i'm certainly not going to give up my hard earned spot i got >_>;
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#186 Aug 30 2013 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
[qu
What have you seen from them that you'd consider to be confirmation that they're expanding the capacity of current worlds (other than just using what should be common sense)?

I'm not trying to be difficult, I just really want to feel better about all of this.


If you can imagine the operators from the 1940's where you had this person plugging your call to the right port manually. Now we do this with hardware using switches. The switches and routers handle the users coming in from the outside(our ISP's) and routes them to the game lobby >> your server. The problem with FFXIV is two fold. The capacity itself is not enough to support over 5,000 people without the risk of crashing. The switching(operator) can't log in enough people at once(hence the que/ login error codes). So SE is expanding capacity of both to handle the influx of people. Once this is done, new people will be able to log on closed worlds.

Yoshi has admitted this capacity upgrade will take place in all regions. It's supposed to be upgraded within a week or so. The hard part isn't the cost, but the programming aspect which takes time. In order for the new hardware to talk to the old hardware, they must sync them up. The QoS differs as does load balance. SE underestimated according to Yoshi how many people would be logging in this game at launch. That's why the hardware wasn't ready for this influx of people. The good news is the equipment and network topology must be done otherwise we wouldn't of heard about it. I'd say 1 week minimum.. max 2 weeks until everything is fixed. That's unless we have more problems, but I really doubt it. The servers are stable as long as we weren't maxing them past capacity.
#187 Aug 30 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
For one SE has never had free server transfers afaik.

When population distribution was becoming an issue in FFXI, SE added Remora and Hades. SE grouped existing servers into two groups. If you were on a server in Group A, you could apply to be transfered to Remora for free when it launched. If you were on a server in Group B, you could apply to be transferred to Hades. This was completely free (I don't think the paid server transfer was even available yet). And because the destination server of the transfer was determined only be your currently server, you would still wind up on the same server as the friends and LS members that you were already on the same server as, provided you could convince them to server transfer as well.
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#188 Aug 30 2013 at 1:16 PM Rating: Default
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svlyons wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
For one SE has never had free server transfers afaik.

When population distribution was becoming an issue in FFXI, SE added Remora and Hades. SE grouped existing servers into two groups. If you were on a server in Group A, you could apply to be transfered to Remora for free when it launched. If you were on a server in Group B, you could apply to be transferred to Hades. This was completely free (I don't think the paid server transfer was even available yet). And because the destination server of the transfer was determined only be your currently server, you would still wind up on the same server as the friends and LS members that you were already on the same server as, provided you could convince them to server transfer as well.

Thats a lot of "ifs"
#189 Aug 30 2013 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
svlyons wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
For one SE has never had free server transfers afaik.

When population distribution was becoming an issue in FFXI, SE added Remora and Hades. SE grouped existing servers into two groups. If you were on a server in Group A, you could apply to be transfered to Remora for free when it launched. If you were on a server in Group B, you could apply to be transferred to Hades. This was completely free (I don't think the paid server transfer was even available yet). And because the destination server of the transfer was determined only be your currently server, you would still wind up on the same server as the friends and LS members that you were already on the same server as, provided you could convince them to server transfer as well.

Thats a lot of "ifs"

Literally, there's only two "ifs". Conceptually, there's really only one problematic "if": can you convince your friends to server transfer with you? It gets dicey when your friends need to convince their friends, and in turn those friends may need to convince their friends, etc. In the end, it will probably come down to people who transfer without their friends because their FC is transferring and people who don't really have any really close friends keeping them from transferring.

Then there's another "if": if SE even bothers with offering free server transfers. They've done it before, but it was for a much more established population. It probably takes a non-trivial amount of work to transfer characters between servers. They may simply decide that players can just start over on the new server, since the game has really only been online for 10 days as far as character progression is concerned.
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#190 Aug 30 2013 at 1:59 PM Rating: Default
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svlyons wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
svlyons wrote:
ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
For one SE has never had free server transfers afaik.

When population distribution was becoming an issue in FFXI, SE added Remora and Hades. SE grouped existing servers into two groups. If you were on a server in Group A, you could apply to be transfered to Remora for free when it launched. If you were on a server in Group B, you could apply to be transferred to Hades. This was completely free (I don't think the paid server transfer was even available yet). And because the destination server of the transfer was determined only be your currently server, you would still wind up on the same server as the friends and LS members that you were already on the same server as, provided you could convince them to server transfer as well.

Thats a lot of "ifs"

Literally, there's only two "ifs". Conceptually, there's really only one problematic "if": can you convince your friends to server transfer with you? It gets dicey when your friends need to convince their friends, and in turn those friends may need to convince their friends, etc. In the end, it will probably come down to people who transfer without their friends because their FC is transferring and people who don't really have any really close friends keeping them from transferring.

Then there's another "if": if SE even bothers with offering free server transfers. They've done it before, but it was for a much more established population. It probably takes a non-trivial amount of work to transfer characters between servers. They may simply decide that players can just start over on the new server, since the game has really only been online for 10 days as far as character progression is concerned.

Interesting you start out disputing me then end up agreeing. So lets agree its a crap shoot on all that
#191 Aug 30 2013 at 2:03 PM Rating: Good
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darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
I don't get all the hububb... I don't have any waits logging in :\ Never have.


I read your blog. You are a spy. I can't trust you Smiley: tongue
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#192 Aug 30 2013 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Both. The new worlds will be primarily for new characters, but they'd rather go ahead and resolve the infrastructure problems on the existing worlds than force people to leave if they can.


I haven't seen anything from SE stating they'll be expanding the capacity of the current worlds, only adding new ones. Yesterday, Yoshi-P (and someone else) released a lengthy statement that seemed to confirm this.

Catwho, you seem to have a lot of IT knowledge. What have you seen from them that you'd consider to be confirmation that they're expanding the capacity of current worlds (other than just using what should be common sense)?

I'm not trying to be difficult, I just really want to feel better about all of this.


I'm pretty sure I remember reading in one of the Yoshi P comments that they're adding in infrastructure not only for extra worlds, but for the servers to handle more connections, period. For example, the cross-server Duty Finder simply couldn't handle the number of requests hammering it - they had two servers dedicated to it and split the DF applicants into two pools, but now they're going to split them into more. This was one of the stability issues that caused the 90000 error and problems with instances. Adding in more Duty Finder servers will allow them to increase the capacity of people across all worlds as well as individual worlds, both new and existing.

I'm also guessing that some of the additional hardware mentioned is the networking guts for each of the data centers, which simply couldn't handle 100,000 simultaneous users. They're likely having to go from the standard data center infrastructure which can handle spikes of 10.000 users at once before they choke, on to ISP grade switches and routers which can handle many more.

I'm officially a software analyst and not a hardware analyst, but my understanding is that the world capacity limit was put in place not because the world couldn't hold any more characters, but because the world was unstable past a certain point. They've slowly adjusted the numbers (from a hard cap of 180,000 to 218,000 as of the last letter) because they're proceeding cautiously and don't quite know where the breaking point is.

Edited, Aug 30th 2013 2:24pm by Catwho


Maybe they hit that point today when it kicked everyone off and it took me a very unusual 40 minutes to log in pre-noon.
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#193 Aug 30 2013 at 3:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Both. The new worlds will be primarily for new characters, but they'd rather go ahead and resolve the infrastructure problems on the existing worlds than force people to leave if they can.


I haven't seen anything from SE stating they'll be expanding the capacity of the current worlds, only adding new ones. Yesterday, Yoshi-P (and someone else) released a lengthy statement that seemed to confirm this.

Catwho, you seem to have a lot of IT knowledge. What have you seen from them that you'd consider to be confirmation that they're expanding the capacity of current worlds (other than just using what should be common sense)?

I'm not trying to be difficult, I just really want to feel better about all of this.


I'm pretty sure I remember reading in one of the Yoshi P comments that they're adding in infrastructure not only for extra worlds, but for the servers to handle more connections, period. For example, the cross-server Duty Finder simply couldn't handle the number of requests hammering it - they had two servers dedicated to it and split the DF applicants into two pools, but now they're going to split them into more. This was one of the stability issues that caused the 90000 error and problems with instances. Adding in more Duty Finder servers will allow them to increase the capacity of people across all worlds as well as individual worlds, both new and existing. Edited, Aug 30th 2013 2:24pm by Catwho


Quote:
Each FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn World server has been designed to support a maximum of 5,000 concurrent connections. This is not the maximum number of characters which can be created on a World, however, but the maximum number of characters which can be logged into that World simultaneously. When more than 5,000 characters log into a World at once, there is a higher risk of server crashes and login errors. The restoration of crashed servers is usually followed by a rush of players attempting to log back in, which, in turn, puts a strain on our lobby server, and can ultimately have an adverse affect on all of the Worlds.


Direct from his latest comments. Yoshi stated that more than 5,000 concurrent connections causes instability on the world server. He then said they are preparing additional worlds.

Quote:
In addition to increasing the number of Worlds, we are also optimizing the Duty Finder (party matching) management servers in an effort to reduce server load and ensure better stability when using this feature.


To address Duty Finder, they are planning to break the worlds into more than the two groups (JP and NA/EU) for the purpose of Duty Finder matchups. Each server will belong to a group of servers DF will pull people from. In other words, DF won't find ANY player (global), but only those in your server group.

Quote:
Currently, the Duty Finder servers split our data centers into two groups of 25 Worlds, and then do the party matching from players from within the same data center. We have determined that by adding new Worlds, the Duty Finder servers will not be able to process the additional data as long as there are only two pairings of groups to match from. Therefore, we have decided to create additional groups to alleviate this problem before it occurs, and by doing so, reduce the burden on the Duty Finder servers, and ultimately allow more players to access the feature.


I expect the infrastructure to include new worlds, with the possibility for World Transfers to redistribute the population.
#194 Aug 30 2013 at 3:27 PM Rating: Default
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diiablo wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Both. The new worlds will be primarily for new characters, but they'd rather go ahead and resolve the infrastructure problems on the existing worlds than force people to leave if they can.


I haven't seen anything from SE stating they'll be expanding the capacity of the current worlds, only adding new ones. Yesterday, Yoshi-P (and someone else) released a lengthy statement that seemed to confirm this.

Catwho, you seem to have a lot of IT knowledge. What have you seen from them that you'd consider to be confirmation that they're expanding the capacity of current worlds (other than just using what should be common sense)?

I'm not trying to be difficult, I just really want to feel better about all of this.


I'm pretty sure I remember reading in one of the Yoshi P comments that they're adding in infrastructure not only for extra worlds, but for the servers to handle more connections, period. For example, the cross-server Duty Finder simply couldn't handle the number of requests hammering it - they had two servers dedicated to it and split the DF applicants into two pools, but now they're going to split them into more. This was one of the stability issues that caused the 90000 error and problems with instances. Adding in more Duty Finder servers will allow them to increase the capacity of people across all worlds as well as individual worlds, both new and existing. Edited, Aug 30th 2013 2:24pm by Catwho


Quote:
Each FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn World server has been designed to support a maximum of 5,000 concurrent connections. This is not the maximum number of characters which can be created on a World, however, but the maximum number of characters which can be logged into that World simultaneously. When more than 5,000 characters log into a World at once, there is a higher risk of server crashes and login errors. The restoration of crashed servers is usually followed by a rush of players attempting to log back in, which, in turn, puts a strain on our lobby server, and can ultimately have an adverse affect on all of the Worlds.


Direct from his latest comments. Yoshi stated that more than 5,000 concurrent connections causes instability on the world server. He then said they are preparing additional worlds.

Quote:
In addition to increasing the number of Worlds, we are also optimizing the Duty Finder (party matching) management servers in an effort to reduce server load and ensure better stability when using this feature.


To address Duty Finder, they are planning to break the worlds into more than the two groups (JP and NA/EU) for the purpose of Duty Finder matchups. Each server will belong to a group of servers DF will pull people from. In other words, DF won't find ANY player (global), but only those in your server group.

Quote:
Currently, the Duty Finder servers split our data centers into two groups of 25 Worlds, and then do the party matching from players from within the same data center. We have determined that by adding new Worlds, the Duty Finder servers will not be able to process the additional data as long as there are only two pairings of groups to match from. Therefore, we have decided to create additional groups to alleviate this problem before it occurs, and by doing so, reduce the burden on the Duty Finder servers, and ultimately allow more players to access the feature.


I expect the infrastructure to include new worlds, with the possibility for World Transfers to redistribute the population.

Isnt it a little late for that? Most people arent going to go jumping to a new server (like legacy players who are locked into their server for the forseeable future). Rather than new worlds which would likely be underpopulated how about they improve the existing servers so they can hold more players. I mean what mmo these days in 2013 cant hold more than 5000? Legacy players kind of got the short end of the stick here, we cant leave but SE decided it was ok to let new characters in on the legacy servers, which in turn prevents legacy players from playing on their own server.
#195 Aug 30 2013 at 4:25 PM Rating: Good
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I'm hoping one of the new worlds they're adding for each region will be a new legacy server. Problem solved.
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#196vahlmyth, Posted: Aug 30 2013 at 4:32 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yet another indicator of how bad their infrastructure is. Pushing ahead knowingly with a vastly undersized environment has been nothing more than a middle finger from SE to its customers.
#197 Aug 30 2013 at 6:05 PM Rating: Good
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This is some muf*ckin boosheet.

Seriously... I've been pressing X non stop for hours now. I'm seriously so sick of SE. I know it's a minor inconvenience at the end of the day, but nonetheless, this kind of **** is real tiring, especially coming from them.
#198 Aug 30 2013 at 6:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Sigue wrote:
I am happy that you are such a deeply giving, caring, and moral person that you are willing to take the very real risk of spending most of your night trying to log on. I, on the other hand, am a self-entitled waste of humanity and will continue to log in in the morning so that when I get home from my 9-5 job I will be able to play the game I have paid for and hopin that giving to charity in real life will make up for what is by your account a villainous act on par with lighting kittens on fire and then using them to light puppies on fire.

I have lost faith in humanity. People like you are why this great country has fallen so low.


Oh yes people who stay logged in to games, yet give to charity in real life are the reason the country has "fallen so low."

wtf does that even mean "Fallen so low"? Did you hear that on TV? Last I check you're chatting on a video game forum and that's your biggest concern in life... try living somewhere where people have real **** to deal with. Get over yourself douche.
#199 Aug 30 2013 at 6:54 PM Rating: Good
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Well, I couldn't log in last night either due to this error.

After a couple hours mashing the X button I decided to roll a cat-girl on one of the Japanese servers and take up some of their bandwidth. Playing on their servers ... well first off I was able to log on immediately. Second, there was no lag beyond what I had seen on the NA servers.

Not sure why SE decided to regionalize the server farms. XI ran pretty well with a distributed user base. Now we're all trying to get on the same servers during the same hours >.<


--- oh, and a quick edit. I saw plenty of AFK characters while running around on their servers too. Problem seems to be overall NA volume, not simply how many ppl are afk necessarily.

Edited, Aug 30th 2013 8:56pm by SkyRaymaker
#201 Aug 30 2013 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
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SkyRaymaker wrote:
Well, I couldn't log in last night either due to this error.

After a couple hours mashing the X button I decided to roll a cat-girl on one of the Japanese servers and take up some of their bandwidth. Playing on their servers ... well first off I was able to log on immediately. Second, there was no lag beyond what I had seen on the NA servers.

Not sure why SE decided to regionalize the server farms. XI ran pretty well with a distributed user base. Now we're all trying to get on the same servers during the same hours >.<


--- oh, and a quick edit. I saw plenty of AFK characters while running around on their servers too. Problem seems to be overall NA volume, not simply how many ppl are afk necessarily.

Edited, Aug 30th 2013 8:56pm by SkyRaymaker



One of the constant complains in XI was regarding the latency difference between JP servers and NA servers. For 99% of things you do, the extra latency doesn't matter. However, for an HNM that has a 3 hour window every 24 hours and will be claimed the instant it appears to someone's screen, the extra 100 miliseconds between the JP and NA player felt like the JP players had an unfair advantage.

I think this was proven untrue during the advent of the "NASA Bot" in XI, which cost an HNM group $3,000 but set up an intermediary packet sniffer between them and the servers to give them the command to provoke or flash an HNM before it even spawned on the screen (since the spawning process would take a full second before it was targetable.) With the NASA bot, the non-JP HNMs were able to beat out everyone, regardless of where they lived. If latency was really such a huge issue in XI, then the NASA bot's half a second advantage would be no advantage at all.
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
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