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Smallest MMO world to date?Follow

#52 Sep 15 2013 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Dude obviously hates XIV and is fishing for every reason to grumble about it.


On a forum where it really does nothing at all, to boot.

EDIT: There's a Ford enthusiast club here in Phoenix that I know of. I'm going to walk in there and ***** about Ford's all day long. That'll show them. Because I'm entitled to my opinion and free to impound it on others.

EDIT 2: And then I'll ***** about how everyone ignores me, trashes my opinion, and call them all white knights. And then I'll blame the community for being a failure.

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 2:13pm by darexius2010

Edited, Sep 14th 2013 2:15pm by darexius2010

#53 Sep 15 2013 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
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preludes wrote:
This isn't really about ffxi, this is abotu a newly launched mmo with major flaws that will push most of the people on the servers away within the first couple of months. ...there is nothing in this game that will keep players around long-term. In fact it seems designed in such a way to make most quit within a short amount of time.


I don't usually say things like this for obvious reasons...

Can you come back to these forums in 12 months when subscriptions are healthy and the first expansion is about to be launched just so that I can say, "I told you so!"?
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#54 Sep 15 2013 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
kainsilv wrote:
preludes wrote:
This isn't really about ffxi, this is abotu a newly launched mmo with major flaws that will push most of the people on the servers away within the first couple of months. ...there is nothing in this game that will keep players around long-term. In fact it seems designed in such a way to make most quit within a short amount of time.


I don't usually say things like this for obvious reasons...

Can you come back to these forums in 12 months when subscriptions are healthy and the first expansion is about to be launched just so that I can say, "I told you so!"?


At that point he'll just twist his argument as to why subs in 12 months aren't as high when compared to launch, and why it's really not successful!
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#55 Sep 15 2013 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
Here's an idea. Why not list quests that involve, say, East Ronf. Now compare to that to quests that involve Eastern La Noscea. Bet ya XIV uses the zone resources more before even considering FATEs, gathering, hunt logs, and general killing.


All you're saying is that games relying on quest/task-based leveling have more quests and tasks than games that use a different leveling system.
#56 Sep 15 2013 at 3:29 PM Rating: Excellent
so youre saying north/south gustaberg, dangruf wadi, palborough mines, konstath, beaudex, pashow marshlands, rolanberry fields, crawlers nest, valkurm dunes, crawlers next, jugner forest, lathein plateau, east/west ronfaure, king ramperes tomb, ghelsba outpost, davoi, eldieme necropolis, battilia downs, east/west sarutabaruta, giddeus, meriphataud mountains, taronghi canyon, ,buburimu pennensula, castle ostroja, sauramagu champaign, garlaige citadel, the ruins inside sarutabaruto, quifim and the three main cities, jeuno (plus mhura and selbina) werent 2 if not 3 times the size of FFXIV? ookay

The crossed out dungeons weren't available at level 50 cap when the game was released. They were not added until the game went to 60 cap. (KRT's upper levels were available, but not the lower levels that you had to access by clicking the ??? to open the hidden stairwell.) Bos-tab and Toraimorai were also added then.
#57 Sep 15 2013 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
Guys, don't jump all over Preludes for posting over here. He's only here because FFXIV is the game most people are talking about and playing right now, and he wants in on the action, even if he's not playing himself.

Quote:
so youre saying north/south gustaberg, dangruf wadi, palborough mines, konstath, beaudex, pashow marshlands, rolanberry fields, crawlers nest, valkurm dunes, crawlers next, jugner forest, lathein plateau, east/west ronfaure, king ramperes tomb, ghelsba outpost, davoi, eldieme necropolis, battilia downs, east/west sarutabaruta, giddeus, meriphataud mountains, taronghi canyon, ,buburimu pennensula, castle ostroja, sauramagu champaign, garlaige citadel, the ruins inside sarutabaruto, quifim and the three main cities, jeuno (plus mhura and selbina) werent 2 if not 3 times the size of FFXIV? ookay


I'm saying I'd rather shoot myself in the face than have to waste so much time running through expansive nothingness just to get from Point A to Point B.

One of the great design decisions Yoshi-P made for this game was to make the zones small but meaningful. Hell yeah, the zones in FFXIV are smaller than the zones in FFXI... yay!!! I have no freaking clue why anyone would portray this as a bad thing. I mean, really? The zones of FFXIV have so much personality and character, yet they're all unified by similar artistic visions and design concepts. You actually become CONNECTED with the zones, because you don't just run through them once and never return. Plus, the mission quests artfully take you all over Eorzea, to every nook and cranny. It's so refreshing to adventure around, do FATES, and not have to worry like you're just wasting time running through nothing (Tahrongi Canyon, I'm looking at you, and you weren't even the biggest baron zone).

The name of this thread should be, "SE Corrects Commonly Bad MMO Norm of Giant, Useless Zones."

Go Yoshi-P!

EDIT: And in a kind of cool twist of fate, we can thank "PS3 limitations" for encouraging Yoshi-P & co. to incorporate this design decision into the fabric of FFXIV.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 2:41pm by Thayos
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#58 Sep 15 2013 at 3:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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It doesn't matter if XI had 40 zones at launch versus what ARR has at launch. The underlying process pro ARR people are saying is there is more landscape variety and content to do in ARR regions.
#59 Sep 15 2013 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
so youre saying north/south gustaberg, dangruf wadi, palborough mines, konstath, beaudex, pashow marshlands, rolanberry fields, crawlers nest, valkurm dunes, crawlers next, jugner forest, lathein plateau, east/west ronfaure, king ramperes tomb, ghelsba outpost, davoi, eldieme necropolis, battilia downs, east/west sarutabaruta, giddeus, meriphataud mountains, taronghi canyon, ,buburimu pennensula, castle ostroja, sauramagu champaign, garlaige citadel, the ruins inside sarutabaruto, quifim and the three main cities, jeuno (plus mhura and selbina) werent 2 if not 3 times the size of FFXIV? ookay


Palborough Mines, Beadeux, Crawler's Nest, KRT, Ghelsba Outpost, Davoi, Eldieme, Giddeus, Oztroja, Garlaige, and Horutoto are dungeons.


Uhh, they are?

I think of something like Dynamis as a dungeon.
#60 Sep 15 2013 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
I agree with OP that the world is quite small, but I understand why it is so small. It will grow over time. I think that's all that really needed to be said here.

I definitely felt like I had more to explore on FFXI but I'm a CoP baby, and if you're an English speaker, you came at Zilart (earliest). It's just not a comparison that you can make right now, unless you want to ignore the restructuring of FFXIV and just look at the time since original launch, I guess...

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 6:55pm by LucasNox
#61 Sep 15 2013 at 5:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Here's an idea. Why not list quests that involve, say, East Ronf. Now compare to that to quests that involve Eastern La Noscea. Bet ya XIV uses the zone resources more before even considering FATEs, gathering, hunt logs, and general killing.


All you're saying is that games relying on quest/task-based leveling have more quests and tasks than games that use a different leveling system.

I'm sorry, but zones are literally places you do **** in. If the only thing that makes it good is takes you 10+ minutes to run from one entrance to exit, then you've got a terrible sense of design philosophy. This is essentially what I'd said in the whole, "Size doesn't matter..." line. Otherwise, I'm reminded of the meme pic of how someone viewed MMOs then and now with the now stating to ignore a certain area because there's nothing of importance to be had there. The bigger a zone is, the more you risk dead space.
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#62 Sep 15 2013 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
LucasNox wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
so youre saying north/south gustaberg, dangruf wadi, palborough mines, konstath, beaudex, pashow marshlands, rolanberry fields, crawlers nest, valkurm dunes, crawlers next, jugner forest, lathein plateau, east/west ronfaure, king ramperes tomb, ghelsba outpost, davoi, eldieme necropolis, battilia downs, east/west sarutabaruta, giddeus, meriphataud mountains, taronghi canyon, ,buburimu pennensula, castle ostroja, sauramagu champaign, garlaige citadel, the ruins inside sarutabaruto, quifim and the three main cities, jeuno (plus mhura and selbina) werent 2 if not 3 times the size of FFXIV? ookay


Palborough Mines, Beadeux, Crawler's Nest, KRT, Ghelsba Outpost, Davoi, Eldieme, Giddeus, Oztroja, Garlaige, and Horutoto are dungeons.


Uhh, they are?

I think of something like Dynamis as a dungeon.


SE makes the distinction in XI as "field area" versus "dungeon area" and the two are separated in the old world areas by the type of training books at the zone. Fields of Valor in field area, Grounds of Valor in dungeon areas.

Dynamis is probably more of a classic definition of a dungeon but even it's different now that the mobs respawn. Smiley: frown
#63 Sep 15 2013 at 6:41 PM Rating: Default
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classic? i dont know of any scenario where something like dynamis would be considered a dungeon... maybe a raid but not a dungeon
#64 Sep 15 2013 at 6:45 PM Rating: Good
Well, it seems more like a dungeon than Ghelsba Outpost and the other stuff he mentioned, I think.

I was thinking "MMO term" dungeon though. I didn't know about the Fields of Valor stuff.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 8:46pm by LucasNox
#65 Sep 15 2013 at 7:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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LucasNox wrote:
Well, it seems more like a dungeon than Ghelsba Outpost and the other stuff he mentioned, I think.

I was thinking "MMO term" dungeon though. I didn't know about the Fields of Valor stuff.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 8:46pm by LucasNox


I'm thinking in MMO terms too. You're right that Ghelsba wouldn't be considered the dictionary definition of a dungeon, due in no small part to its being entirely not underground.

For examples of other "open world" dungeons in MMOs see: Zul Farrak (WoW), Realm of the Fae (Rift), Cademimu (SWTOR), Nochsana Training Camp (Aion).
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#66 Sep 15 2013 at 7:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
theyre still part of the open world.. yo no wyou can actually physically walk into them and explor ethem.. like in any decent mmo


You've just claimed that no MMO that uses instances is decent.

YEs thats exactly what Im saying. Though keep in mind that doesnt aply to having ANY instnaces.. I mean technically dynamis and limbus wee "nstances" right? but if 100% of your game is instanced based aside from a few hub cities and the outdoor areas outside those cities (I.E DC UNIVERS EONLINE FOR EXAMPLE) then yea it is not a decent game

Are you saying ARR is 100% instanced minus hub cities and areas directly outside those cities?
Pray tell what XI offered at non instanced or content over ARR at launch. I'm not sure on my time tables & comparsions or if I am leaving content out, correct me if I'm wrong.

ARR----------------------------------FFXI
Open world mobs---------------- Open world mobs
FATE-------------------------------- Garrison
Hamlet------------------------------ (besieged is only comparison but that came later)
Guildhest--------------------------- BCNM
Guildleves------------------------- ?
Dungeons------------------------- Dungeons
Story fights------------------------ Story fights
Grand company------------------ City fame
3 starter nations------------------ 3 starter nations
Artifact armor quest------------- Was artifact armor quest available at launch?
quests------------------------------- quests
crafting----------------------------- crafting
Materia----------------------------- Any gem socket feature?
crafting class quest------------- Any crafting class quest?
Free company & linkshell------ Linkshell
hunting logs------------------------ ?
9 battle jobs/8 classes---------- 6 battle jobs?
spiritbond--------------------------- weapon skillups
job/class quests-------------------job quests
NM via FATE----------------------NM
HNM via FATE-------------------HNM








#67 Sep 15 2013 at 7:36 PM Rating: Default
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sandpark wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
theyre still part of the open world.. yo no wyou can actually physically walk into them and explor ethem.. like in any decent mmo


You've just claimed that no MMO that uses instances is decent.

YEs thats exactly what Im saying. Though keep in mind that doesnt aply to having ANY instnaces.. I mean technically dynamis and limbus wee "nstances" right? but if 100% of your game is instanced based aside from a few hub cities and the outdoor areas outside those cities (I.E DC UNIVERS EONLINE FOR EXAMPLE) then yea it is not a decent game

Are you saying ARR is 100% instanced minus hub cities and areas directly outside those cities?
Pray tell what XI offered at non instanced or content over ARR at launch. I'm not sure on my time tables & comparsions or if I am leaving content out, correct me if I'm wrong.

ARR----------------------------------FFXI
Open world mobs---------------- Open world mobs
FATE-------------------------------- Garrison
Hamlet------------------------------ (besieged is only comparison but that came later)
Guildhest--------------------------- BCNM
Guildleves------------------------- ?
Dungeons------------------------- Dungeons
Story fights------------------------ Story fights
Grand company------------------ City fame
3 starter nations------------------ 3 starter nations
Artifact armor quest------------- Was artifact armor quest available at launch?
quests------------------------------- quests
crafting----------------------------- crafting
Materia----------------------------- Any gem socket feature?
crafting class quest------------- Any crafting class quest?
Free company & linkshell------ Linkshell
hunting logs------------------------ ?
9 battle jobs/8 classes---------- 6 battle jobs?
spiritbond--------------------------- weapon skillups
job/class quests-------------------job quests
NM via FATE----------------------NM
HNM via FATE-------------------HNM











what are you attempting to prove? i never said there was nothing to do in those areas outside the cuties... just si.ply tht its 80% instqnced.. i mean for example being able to walk up oo and freely explore sashasta or copperbell mines qnx mayne stume upon other explorers in the procss woulda been better thwn instanced play
#68 Sep 15 2013 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not saying I prefer instanced over open, well maybe I prefer instanced on my dungeons, especially if that dungeon is designed for a party on at least the first run through them. If the dungeons weren't capped and instanced, that would lead to people over leveling content and making it easier to advance on them plus allow the opportunity for griefing even if it stayed capped.

ARR made the choice to make it viable to solo or group to level. If they applied that same mindset to dungeons and most other endgame. The need to band together and face difficult encounters will lessen. CoP was a joy to some and a nightmare to others. But what made it special wasn't that someone could come and do all the hard stuff for you or grief you. Now as a certain content ages and the need for most players to get X content done diminishes, the new players will have a hard time getting their content done. Then maybe SE could allow stuff like that and I think Yoshi even said he would make dungeons and stuff more accessible as the content aged. But not right out of the gate man, and I'm glad it's not.

That in mind, I do hope SE creates some endgame or dungeon content for soloers and light parties as well, while he has full party and alliance content coming.

Edited, Sep 15th 2013 10:12pm by sandpark
#69 Sep 15 2013 at 8:22 PM Rating: Default
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well as for overlvling content.. thats just it. who says dungeons had to be "content" or have an objective? i mean dungeons in ffxi served tha same purpose as the outdoor areas. an indoor area to expllore. i.e if they put indoor none instanced dungeons in ffxiv tht doesnt necessarily mean there has to be a boss fight at the end... maybe you just wanna poke around and see if theres anytreasure. so there would be no content to overlevel
#70 Sep 15 2013 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
well as for overlvling content.. thats just it. who says dungeons had to be "content" or have an objective? i mean dungeons in ffxi served tha same purpose as the outdoor areas. an indoor area to expllore. i.e if they put indoor none instanced dungeons in ffxiv tht doesnt necessarily mean there has to be a boss fight at the end... maybe you just wanna poke around and see if theres anytreasure. so there would be no content to overlevel

Ok, then what you mean by saying dungeon is just indoor areas or underground places to explore. I have no problem with that and there is nothing to prevent ARR from doing that.

But if there is an objective or bosses in the middle or end. That would fall in line with basically every FF ever created with XI being the exception to the rule to my knowledge.
#71 Sep 15 2013 at 8:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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It probably just seems small because of chocobos, and teleporters. If we were stuck on foot, like in 1.0, we'd probably be singing a different tune.
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#72 Sep 15 2013 at 8:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm just confused as to why people expect a massive game when it's not even a month released yet. It will grow.
#73 Sep 15 2013 at 10:34 PM Rating: Default
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Kawohni wrote:
I'm just confused as to why people expect a massive game when it's not even a month released yet. It will grow.




because in a certain other games where i listed all of its area that it had on day one only maybe 5-8 of them were incorrect so if one gamed was HUGE at release why cant every other game be? make sense?
#74 Sep 15 2013 at 10:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
so if one gamed was HUGE at release why cant every other game be? make sense?


Because all games are basically the same. Smiley: oyvey
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#75 Sep 15 2013 at 10:53 PM Rating: Excellent
I'm not sure what the point of arguing about it is.

There's really no disputing that the world is small. You don't have to defend that fact and say it isn't. You can still like a game with a small world. It's going to get bigger anyway.
#76 Sep 15 2013 at 11:53 PM Rating: Default
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
so if one gamed was HUGE at release why cant every other game be? make sense?


Because all games are basically the same. Smiley: oyvey



let most ppl tell it everything made by japan is the same lol. But anyway considering SE made an mmo before (FFXI) the correct way to make a new hit would be take everything everyone liked about the last and make it better and leave out the stuff ppl complained about/didnt like.... and im sure NO ONE in FFXI every complained "the maps are too big"
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