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Tanks Trolling the DFFollow

#1 Sep 16 2013 at 6:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Several times this weekend I was in DF, me as healer and 2 DD ready to go. The DF pops and someone withdraws right away (Tank). It pops again and withdraws right away. It pops again and withdraws right away ad nasuem. Each time it was the tank slot. One time it pops, we get inside, and the tank drops. Was this an isolated incidence this weekend or did others come across this? Maybe YOU where one of the Tanks in question!
#2 Sep 16 2013 at 6:42 AM Rating: Default
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Remember this happening to me but it was a connection issue, and the only PTs have ever joined the tanks usually quit a few minutes in or after wiping on first mini boss. So I think you're just not lucky with them quitting right at the beginning.
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#3 Sep 16 2013 at 7:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I think that duty finder has a long way to go. Even when you have a party of 4 it queues you up for a 20 minute wait. Took me 2 hours to get in to Amdapoor Keep last night (even checked join party already in progess), then got in after apparantly two folks left the dd and healer, got a great tank, talked the new dragoon through soulflayer and demon wall, only to run out of time on the bone dragon. Bleh.
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#4 Sep 16 2013 at 7:29 AM Rating: Decent
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They think it's funny that DPS need to wait 40 minutes while they get instant queues. They need to check their tank privilege.
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#5 Sep 16 2013 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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What makes you think this is trolling? Sounds like connection issues.
#6 Sep 16 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Decent
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It's the impersonal nature of Duty Finder. To me it seems like players are simply not in front of their PC/Console to accept the Duty Finder popup. I've seen Duty Finder fail 4 times in a row for Prat run because someone fails to accept the popup alert. What you're experiencing with Duty Finder is completely different from the face-to-face encounter with players within an instance. Some might take one look at everyone's gear and decide to take the 15-min hit then risk a failed run. The second part might be mitigated once they deploy patch 2.1. I for one wish they put out a stacking deserter's penalty for ditching an instance. First offense is the standard 15 minutes and then keep doubling the penalty for each future offense.
#7 Sep 16 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Decent
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moonfroh wrote:
What makes you think this is trolling?
Trolling is the defacto internet reaction slash passive-aggressive insult to things people don't agree to, regardless of the situation. It's up there in it's uselessness as "elitism" and "American."

Edited, Sep 16th 2013 10:00am by lolgaxe
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#8 Sep 16 2013 at 8:00 AM Rating: Decent
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nonameoflevi wrote:
Several times this weekend I was in DF, me as healer and 2 DD ready to go. The DF pops and someone withdraws right away (Tank). It pops again and withdraws right away. It pops again and withdraws right away ad nasuem. Each time it was the tank slot. One time it pops, we get inside, and the tank drops. Was this an isolated incidence this weekend or did others come across this? Maybe YOU where one of the Tanks in question!


Are you sure they were withdrawing or time ran out and it withdrew them? DF works automatically so if you sign up for a DF from like a hour ago, it can pop up and you can be afk missing the party. I can't tell you how many afk DD's do this. People are quick to whine that DD's shouldn't be doing this, but when you wait for a hour or longer sometimes, there is a good reason for falling asleep. I think you just had a bad weekend. While tanks typically get party invites a lot faster, I don't think it's any form of elitism. It's simply they're tired, busy, or any other of RL issues that prevent party play. Maybe they forgot to turn off DF, I've done that before on accident. My general point is to not be paranoid and judge each situation separately.
#9 Sep 16 2013 at 8:06 AM Rating: Default
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Most of them don't even know how to tank, they need to have their tank privileges revoked. As a healer and my wife as DPS though we get right in almost always but then again we are only level 30 at the moment.
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#10 Sep 16 2013 at 8:30 AM Rating: Decent
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****** tanks aside it's because they do this:

[x]Castrum Meri.
[x]Praetorium
[x]Bowl of Embers (Hard)
[x]The Naval (Hard)
[x]The Howling Eye (Hard)

And what the tank gets is usually the one they don't want to do thus they keep withdrawing and requeuing until they get into the one that want, why they choose not to just click one instead of a set? We'll never know, they usually give up and just take what queues up eventually. Also, you can tell immediately when someone withdraws or time runs out. You get 50 seconds, if they withdraw with anything less than 10 seconds left, it was them manually cancelling it.
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#11 Sep 16 2013 at 8:45 AM Rating: Default
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Theonehio wrote:
sh*tty tanks aside it's because they do this:

[x]Castrum Meri.
[x]Praetorium
[x]Bowl of Embers (Hard)
[x]The Naval (Hard)
[x]The Howling Eye (Hard)

And what the tank gets is usually the one they don't want to do thus they keep withdrawing and requeuing until they get into the one that want, why they choose not to just click one instead of a set? We'll never know, they usually give up and just take what queues up eventually. Also, you can tell immediately when someone withdraws or time runs out. You get 50 seconds, if they withdraw with anything less than 10 seconds left, it was them manually cancelling it.


The Bolded part is what I'm talking about. The INSTANCE the DF pops with a full party (after waiting a few and seeing that we only need a tank) someone withdraws. Not 40 seconds, not 30 seconds not even 10 seconds but IMMEEJUTLY! And then it finds someone and again IMMEEJUTLY the person withdraws.

#12 Sep 16 2013 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Trolling is the defacto internet reaction slash passive-aggressive insult to things people don't agree to, regardless of the situation. It's up there in it's uselessness as "elitism" and "American."


Elitist Americans are the biggest trolls, in my experience.
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#13 Sep 16 2013 at 8:51 AM Rating: Default
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Oh the DF is still there?
Or even better there are tanks?
It felt like there isn't one the last 3 days for me.
I always gave up after 2hrs+ with my WHM (now lvl 35)....

I think they really need to improve the situation.
Either on the server side or from the player side (make tanking more appealing to people for example)
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#14 Sep 16 2013 at 8:51 AM Rating: Default
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Theonehio wrote:
sh*tty tanks aside it's because they do this:

[x]Castrum Meri.
[x]Praetorium
[x]Bowl of Embers (Hard)
[x]The Naval (Hard)
[x]The Howling Eye (Hard)

And what the tank gets is usually the one they don't want to do thus they keep withdrawing and requeuing until they get into the one that want, why they choose not to just click one instead of a set? We'll never know, they usually give up and just take what queues up eventually. Also, you can tell immediately when someone withdraws or time runs out. You get 50 seconds, if they withdraw with anything less than 10 seconds left, it was them manually cancelling it.


Frankly, what a tank does with their DF is their own **** business. I don't see the reason to hate on people because they're not living up to other people's expectations. My retort isn't directed at you, but all people who think they're entitled to tanks that must adhere to their every whim. The real problem with the system isn't the tanks, but the sheer number of people on DPS classes. I'm playing a DPS class first myself, but I fully expect to wait long times. I don't cry about it because after I wait a hour the tank withdrawals on me. That kind of mentality reeks of the me, me, me entitlement.
#15 Sep 16 2013 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
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I personally found better results with joining a friendly outgoing FreeCompany. I have a core group of friends that I can run the usual dungeon crawls with. In the evenings we try to put together several 8-man runs to help everyone get their Tomestones or work towards their relic quests. I only use the Duty Finer during slow hours when most of our crew are offline.
#16 Sep 16 2013 at 9:01 AM Rating: Decent
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I really wish they made tanking and healing in these games more...entertaining. There has got to be a way to do it.

Tanks and healers get instant queues while I sit and wait for 55min. Sigh..

My guess is that tank was most likely looking for his favorite composition for the run...which is strange because he could just start a goup in chat and just wait the 15-30min it takes to reserve a spot on the duty server rather than rolling the dice.

Wait....

If you are the first to leave a dungeon you get a 15min lock out...

So on second thought...how the **** was he leaving then joining over and over?
#17 Sep 16 2013 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
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Strangerous wrote:
I really wish they made tanking and healing in these games more...entertaining. There has got to be a way to do it.

Tanks and healers get instant queues while I sit and wait for 55min. Sigh..


I don't think it has anything to do about tanking/healer roles not being entertaining enough. Sure maybe in the early dungeons, but after that, I disagree. The real problem has to do with us. Our western egos are all about parsing and e-peen, not a group effort. A tank's role is to make others' look good,same with healers. It's not attractive to the type of player that only cares about their own performance. That's the real problem here, it has nothing to do with the job mechanics. The good tanks I've had the opportunity to play with have validated me on that. Sadly, this is culture issue, not a mechanic one.
#18 Sep 16 2013 at 9:15 AM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Strangerous wrote:
I really wish they made tanking and healing in these games more...entertaining. There has got to be a way to do it.

Tanks and healers get instant queues while I sit and wait for 55min. Sigh..


I don't think it has anything to do about tanking/healer roles not being entertaining enough. Sure maybe in the early dungeons, but after that, I disagree. The real problem has to do with us. Our western egos are all about parsing and e-peen, not a group effort. A tank's role is to make others' look good,same with healers. It's not attractive to the type of player that only cares about their own performance. That's the real problem here, it has nothing to do with the job mechanics. The good tanks I've had the opportunity to play with have validated me on that. Sadly, this is culture issue, not a mechanic one.


Not entirely, but that is part of it. It's just as much the fact that tank/heals is more "work" and more responsibility. Also more accountability when things go wrong. I play DPS and tank; I love my PLD and I love tanking, but when I'm tired or burnt out, I will run dungeons on DRG because its honestly less effort.
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#19 Sep 16 2013 at 9:23 AM Rating: Default
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Strangerous wrote:
I really wish they made tanking and healing in these games more...entertaining. There has got to be a way to do it.

Tanks and healers get instant queues while I sit and wait for 55min. Sigh..


I love healing and I'm even thinking about getting WHM and SCH to 50.
But instant queues? I want to be in your DF group.
Like I said already I am waiting 2hrs+ as a healer the last days.

I guess its time to join a FC and build groups that way. May be it helps a little.
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#20 Sep 16 2013 at 9:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Strangerous wrote:
I really wish they made tanking and healing in these games more...entertaining. There has got to be a way to do it.

Tanks and healers get instant queues while I sit and wait for 55min.


First of all you're part of the problem. Tanking and healing aren't boring in the slightest. It's your attitude and the attitudes of others that causes the deficit of healers and tanks. People cry that there are too many dps....but yet insist on being dps! Hilarious.
#21 Sep 16 2013 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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First of all you're part of the problem. Tanking and healing aren't boring in the slightest. It's your attitude and the attitudes of others that causes the deficit of healers and tanks. People cry that there are too many dps....but yet insist on being dps! Hilarious.


Yep.

Personally I love healing. But I've been doing it for years now and I wanted a change of pace.

I also fully accept that playing dps means that my queue times are going to blow. It's part of the package.
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#22 Sep 16 2013 at 10:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Llester wrote:


Not entirely, but that is part of it. It's just as much the fact that tank/heals is more "work" and more responsibility. Also more accountability when things go wrong. I play DPS and tank; I love my PLD and I love tanking, but when I'm tired or burnt out, I will run dungeons on DRG because its honestly less effort.


I don't agree that tanking/healing is more work in this game. If DD's are taking damage because they're not constantly moving out of AoE crossfire or not delivering enough damage soon enough, wipes happen. I'll cite an early example so everyone will understand. Take the Ifrit fight where the DD need to kill the pillar thingy before he uses Hellfire. If Hellfire is going off, it's the DD's fault. There are many other examples to list, but let's not dwell on it. As for healers, their primary focus is the tank. Tanks need to hold hate and stay alive. Marking IMO doesn't have to be a tanking thing. Anyone can mark so I'm not adding that to a tank's role. DD's often find themselves dying if they take any damage because the healer is so focused on the tank. This mean many of the deaths are a direct result of the DD being stupid.

No offense, but I wouldn't want your DRG in my party. If you think it's easier to play a DD, you're doing it wrong.
#23 Sep 16 2013 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Llester wrote:


Not entirely, but that is part of it. It's just as much the fact that tank/heals is more "work" and more responsibility. Also more accountability when things go wrong. I play DPS and tank; I love my PLD and I love tanking, but when I'm tired or burnt out, I will run dungeons on DRG because its honestly less effort.


I don't agree that tanking/healing is more work in this game. If DD's are taking damage because they're not constantly moving out of AoE crossfire or not delivering enough damage soon enough, wipes happen. I'll cite an early example so everyone will understand. Take the Ifrit fight where the DD need to kill the pillar thingy before he uses Hellfire. If Hellfire is going off, it's the DD's fault. There are many other examples to list, but let's not dwell on it. As for healers, their primary focus is the tank. Tanks need to hold hate and stay alive. Marking IMO doesn't have to be a tanking thing. Anyone can mark so I'm not adding that to a tank's role. DD's often find themselves dying if they take any damage because the healer is so focused on the tank. This mean many of the deaths are a direct result of the DD being stupid.

No offense, but I wouldn't want your DRG in my party. If you think it's easier to play a DD, you're doing it wrong.


no offense taken, i don't really respect where you're coming from on most things anyway from what i've seen /shrug.


also, it's easier to play a DPS. avoid and do a rotation. its not rocket science.

edit: not that tanking is all that "hard" either. it's still more responsibility and hence more effort, at least for me. as a tank you basically have to be the "leader" in most scenarios. Sometimes i want to do that, sometimes i just want to kill things. either way, you're being needlessly and obnoxiously judgemental so grats on that.

Edited, Sep 16th 2013 12:32pm by Llester
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#24 Sep 16 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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There was a saying in XI...

- When you're a great red mage or white mage, you are invisible. All credit and glory go to the DDs after taking down a successful boss or hitting a long chain or high exp/hour. You do you job right and nobody even knows you're there.

- When you are a bad red mage or white mage, you are the spotlight of the party and everyone hates you. Because they're dead.

Healing in an MMO, and all support jobs really, is an act of selflessness. You're playing the job because you enjoy helping others perform to the best of their ability. (Or you're like me and you freak out when you can't cure yourself, let alone anyone else.)

I think tanking is a lot more work than healing, and that's why the healers are now in the same boat as some of the DPS in terms of wait times. People decided to level a healer to shortcut the dungeon wait times, because it takes a specific mind set to be a good tank and fewer people have that mind set.
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#25 Sep 16 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Llester wrote:


also, it's easier to play a DPS. avoid and do a rotation. its not rocket science.


I can say the exact same thing about tanking. Now if you choose to do more than other people, that's why you might not agree. Spamming abilities and attempting to migrate hate is no more difficult than avoiding AoE and killing targets including adds. It's not rocket science for any job in this game. We sure don't need people to scare off potential tanks either.
#26 Sep 16 2013 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Llester wrote:


also, it's easier to play a DPS. avoid and do a rotation. its not rocket science.


I can say the exact same thing about tanking. Now if you choose to do more than other people, that's why you might not agree. Spamming abilities and attempting to migrate hate is no more difficult than avoiding AoE and killing targets including adds. It's not rocket science for any job in this game. We sure don't need people to scare off potential tanks either.


stop being purposefully obtuse.

i'm already turned off by this discussion, so i'll be brief. its not the buttons you push. its the role you play. as a tank you are the focus of everything that is happening. it is more "pressure" so to speak. if you don't understand this, and i suspect that you don't or don't want to, then there's nothing else to be said.

and scaring off potential tanks? that's ridiculous.
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