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Tanks Trolling the DFFollow

#52 Sep 17 2013 at 2:56 PM Rating: Default
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nonameoflevi wrote:
At this point its a three way split. IF tank doens't hold hate bosses kill everyone. IF the healer doesn't heal the tank and everyone well the boss kills everyone. IF the DD doesn't kill adds fast enough THEY kill everyone.


How often do you hear about bad DD in shout? Tanks are to blame the majority of the time, followed by healers. Fact of the matter is everything besides bosses a healer and I could duo without issue (besides it taking really long).

In addition if tanks aren't keeping hate the healers will have to heal more, the DD is getting hit more and can't focus on dps, and everything begins to break down.

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very rarely is the DD blamed for a sh*tty party.


Never underestimate an asshat looking for someone to blame. No one is safe from their wrathful gaze.


I never underestimated, if someone is a douche the class you choose won't protect you from being attacked. Being good is the best defense against elitist @#%^s.

Edited, Sep 17th 2013 4:57pm by burtonsnow

Edited, Sep 17th 2013 4:58pm by burtonsnow
#53 Sep 17 2013 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Strangerous wrote:
I really wish they made tanking and healing in these games more...entertaining.


I think healing in this particular game is incredibly entertaining. As for tanking, for the life of me I cannot understand how tanking is not immensely more entertaining that playing as a DD. As a tank you are essentially playing the role of a DD but while tanking. I really fail to see your logic.


As for DF improvements. I wish you could click commence no matter what you are doing and no matter what class you currently are. For example if I que as SCH and I am out leveling another class, locked up with a mob, doing some crafting etc...I want to be able to click commence without having to change back to the class I qued in. Sometimes I think this is part of the issue on why people miss their ques. Also, if you have a party member leave in the middle of a dungeon you are basically screwed because pretty much no one selects the option "join party already in progress".
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#54 Sep 17 2013 at 4:52 PM Rating: Good
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People like me still do look for parties in progress, it's actually a fast way to get tombs in the end game dungeons, especially since they took out speed runs.
#55 Sep 17 2013 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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I recently left a party because the DD wouldn't cooperate with me, making my job, and the healer's job, a lot tougher. What's worse is that I was being blamed for the issues. DD need to learn to follow the tank's direction. We need to concentrate fire so hate control stays a non-issue.
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#56 Sep 17 2013 at 11:46 PM Rating: Default
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Llester wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Llester wrote:


also, it's easier to play a DPS. avoid and do a rotation. its not rocket science.


I can say the exact same thing about tanking. Now if you choose to do more than other people, that's why you might not agree. Spamming abilities and attempting to migrate hate is no more difficult than avoiding AoE and killing targets including adds. It's not rocket science for any job in this game. We sure don't need people to scare off potential tanks either.


stop being purposefully obtuse.

i'm already turned off by this discussion, so i'll be brief. its not the buttons you push. its the role you play. as a tank you are the focus of everything that is happening. it is more "pressure" so to speak. if you don't understand this, and i suspect that you don't or don't want to, then there's nothing else to be said.

and scaring off potential tanks? that's ridiculous.


There is no 'pressure' playing as a tank. I played paladin and ninja in FFXI, druid/warrior/paladin/DK in WoW, and so many other MMORPGs that have the classic tank role.

It is NOT a stressful role. The only thing that makes it stressful is the player using the role. Coincidentally, those who feel this pressure when playing a tank would probably be better off as DPS or healers.

As a tank, your #1 duty is to hold the attention of mob/mobs. This boils down to a rotation for packs of mobs (3+) and single target/2 mobs. It really is that simple. You can talk about the alleged 'complexity' in blowing cooldowns at the right time, knowing when to pick up adds, etc...but the same can be said for every single role.

In fact, the most 'stressful' (read: enjoyable) job for me in 11 was not a tanking role but a RDM. Between keeping haste/refresh cycles going, healing, managing MP through convert, having 40 sets of gear for each specific spell you have to use, debuffing targets and keeping them up, etc. All of this WHILE you have the ability to CC any other mobs in the way (read: dynamis). Hard? No. Requires some multitasking abilities? Most certainly.
#57 Sep 18 2013 at 5:16 AM Rating: Good
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Stilivan wrote:
I recently left a party because the DD wouldn't cooperate with me, making my job, and the healer's job, a lot tougher. What's worse is that I was being blamed for the issues. DD need to learn to follow the tank's direction. We need to concentrate fire so hate control stays a non-issue.


We experienced that the other evening when we visited Titan HM the other evening. One of the WHMs was severely under-geared and refused to use any form of AoE healing which made it a very rough event. Throughout the event all they did was spam Cure-1 and cast Cure-2 when it proced and wouldn't take any of the group's advice. Eventually that WHM raged quit after we asked if he watched the video or read up on the fight before attempting it.
#58 Sep 18 2013 at 4:10 PM Rating: Decent
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rubina wrote:


We experienced that the other evening when we visited Titan HM the other evening. One of the WHMs was severely under-geared and refused to use any form of AoE healing which made it a very rough event. Throughout the event all they did was spam Cure-1 and cast Cure-2 when it proced and wouldn't take any of the group's advice. Eventually that WHM raged quit after we asked if he watched the video or read up on the fight before attempting it.


We had a tank last night that was horribly geared and a total noob on the Titan fight. I usually don't check people in a party, but this tank was being hit so hard, my WHM buddy was spamming heals and still losing ground. If that wasn't bad enough, I had my buddy check the log for defensive buffs. All he found was WS's for dmg, not one def buff. Ironically, he joked I had used Foresight on DRG. lol So I go and check him and half his gear is lv23. I believe this was a lv36 cap if not mistaken. If the healer become encased in stone, this PLD couldn't last long enough to break him out. We had to eventually throw in the towel because the gear of the tank was so horrendous. The morale of the story is any job can suck.
#59 Dec 27 2013 at 11:59 AM Rating: Default
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:

Frankly, what a tank does with their DF is their own damn business. I don't see the reason to hate on people because they're not living up to other people's expectations. My retort isn't directed at you, but all people who think they're entitled to tanks that must adhere to their every whim. The real problem with the system isn't the tanks, but the sheer number of people on DPS classes. I'm playing a DPS class first myself, but I fully expect to wait long times. I don't cry about it because after I wait a hour the tank withdrawals on me. That kind of mentality reeks of the me, me, me entitlement.


I too play a DD and I also expect to wait a while, even hours if I am very unlucky.
But those damn bastards, who first press "join" in the Duty Finder so the Duty pops open for everyone and then hit "withdrawl" as soon as they can... THOSE I HATE!
THIS has nothing to do with "I want the tank to do my bidding" but plain courtesy.
If you hit "join" then do not withdraw because you got an instant queue... And especially DO NOT DO THIS 30 TIMES IN A ROW!
By now I wait 10seconds to change from my miner or botanist back to my monk when the queue opens because I don't want to loose my GP to a <insert swear words here> troll.
It is interesting to see though, that only tanks seem to do this (you can see, that there are 24slots of DDs, 8 Slots of healers and 7 slots of tanks all filled up and then the stupid Join/withdraw game beginns)

I would love to see a time ban on those bastards.
If you withdraw from your second instant queue within 30min than you can't join any queue for the next hour or so... That would be nice.
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
#60 Dec 27 2013 at 12:30 PM Rating: Default
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I've not seen tanks troll the duty finder at all. Granted i play either Bard or Paladin myself, but still. Even when i'm on Bard it's always DPS or Healers pulling this **** :/

So who ever said Healers and DPS dont do this, Case-in-point:

Healer Trolling

DPS Trolling 1

DPS Trolling 2

Everyone is bad. Period. Stop blaming tanks, the majority of us arent like this.
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#61 Jan 13 2014 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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KojiroSoma wrote:
I've not seen tanks troll the duty finder at all. Granted i play either Bard or Paladin myself, but still. Even when i'm on Bard it's always DPS or Healers pulling this sh*t :/

So who ever said Healers and DPS dont do this, Case-in-point:

Healer Trolling

DPS Trolling 1

DPS Trolling 2

Everyone is bad. Period. Stop blaming tanks, the majority of us arent like this.


This is a tank problem. The reason you have so many people withdrawing from DF mostly CT is tanks fishing for 3/4 boss runs to get fast tombs. Easy way to fix this is add the same lockout to DF withdraws that they added to rage quits! BTW I am not just making this up. talk to a few tanks and I am sure you will get a few to tell you they do it. I have watched my brother do it many times. put a 30 min lockout on all DF withdraws and you will fix this problem.
#62 Jan 13 2014 at 5:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm in favor of a DF lockout timer. I'll even be generous here and go with the first time you withdraw from DF, nothing happens. The second time you do it in a thirty minute window, you get locked out for an hour. That way people that got up to go the bathroom, or had to answer the phone or something like that don't get locked out. But it will end this damn DF hopping that's going on now. I usually have five to ten withdraws every time I try to join a CT run and it's getting damn annoying.
#63 Jan 13 2014 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
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While Turin's idea sounds good that would likely only lead to more problems. You would get the people who would just stand at the entrance of the dungeon and refuse to do anything in hopes of being Vote Kicked. To the best of my knowledge a VK doesn't give you a penalty so basically it would just end up wasting the rest of the group's time if they implemented a punishment for DF Withdrawls.
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#64 Jan 13 2014 at 7:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Add a penalty to being vote kicked as well. Also add a stiff penalty for abusing vote kicking to curb people being ******
#65 Jan 13 2014 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
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Or, just, you know, more people could level tank jobs.
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#66 Jan 13 2014 at 8:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, 3 times in the past week I've had people bail on roulettes before the DUTY COMMENCED even appeared, one of them even explicitly saying "Halatali? Nope!" before he exited. All three of these people were tanks. Princesses much, guys?

I'm hoping that once they implement the method for a party to agree to leave a dungeon without penalty, they will greatly up the penalty for people that do this. IMO it should force you to give up your roulette bonus for the day.

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Or, just, you know, more people could level tank jobs.


Tanks generally have the most responsibility in this game in most of its group content though, because they generally are the pullers. In almost any dungeon/raid setting, these guys set the pace. Not everyone wants that responsibility.

Remember all the people that did not want to be BRDs in XI (whether it's during the traditional leveling process, or even during endgame activities like Delve) simply because it would mean they would have to pull? Yeah.
#67 Jan 13 2014 at 9:25 PM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
Yeah, 3 times in the past week I've had people bail on roulettes before the DUTY COMMENCED even appeared, one of them even explicitly saying "Halatali? Nope!" before he exited. All three of these people were tanks. Princesses much, guys?

I guess they don't understand the idea of random. Don't know how it goes these days, but when I used to play ARAM in LoL it was the same thing. All Random All Mid. You'd think the title makes it pretty clear what you're getting yourself into, but people would say about the same thing... "Not this champ" and they'd dodge.

The only reason tanks are more likely to dodge is that it's easier for them to get a group. Call them princess if you like, but there is no doubt in my mind that everyone would do the same thing if they didn't have the consequence of a long wait until the next dungeon queue pop.
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#68 Jan 13 2014 at 9:30 PM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
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Or, just, you know, more people could level tank jobs.

Tanks generally have the most responsibility in this game in most of its group content though, because they generally are the pullers. In almost any dungeon/raid setting, these guys set the pace. Not everyone wants that responsibility.

Not everyone has to be a tank. Just 1 in 4 people. That's only 25%.
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#69 Jan 13 2014 at 9:54 PM Rating: Decent
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svlyons wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
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Or, just, you know, more people could level tank jobs.

Tanks generally have the most responsibility in this game in most of its group content though, because they generally are the pullers. In almost any dungeon/raid setting, these guys set the pace. Not everyone wants that responsibility.

Not everyone has to be a tank. Just 1 in 4 people. That's only 25%.


Yeah but there is proly no where near that many tanks in the population.
#70 Jan 13 2014 at 10:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Being a good tank takes a certain mindset. Part of it is wanting to be the center of attention, but also some people just enjoy or prefer the leadership role. Much like some people (like myself) prefer the healer or support roles.

Tanking in this game isn't terribly difficult, but I don't enjoy it. I don't like getting hit. Hell, half the time if I'm in a solo quest I send out my chocobo to do the heavy hitting and just nuke lightly from afar as a conjurer. Smiley: laugh
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#71 Jan 13 2014 at 11:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
There was a saying in XI...

- When you're a great red mage or white mage, you are invisible. All credit and glory go to the DDs after taking down a successful boss or hitting a long chain or high exp/hour. You do you job right and nobody even knows you're there.

- When you are a bad red mage or white mage, you are the spotlight of the party and everyone hates you. Because they're dead.

Healing in an MMO, and all support jobs really, is an act of selflessness. You're playing the job because you enjoy helping others perform to the best of their ability. (Or you're like me and you freak out when you can't cure yourself, let alone anyone else.)

I think tanking is a lot more work than healing, and that's why the healers are now in the same boat as some of the DPS in terms of wait times. People decided to level a healer to shortcut the dungeon wait times, because it takes a specific mind set to be a good tank and fewer people have that mind set.



This post. A thousand times, this post.

Heck, tanking is just as invisible. In XI, there was a point you couldn't even XP/merit. "Just go campaign, but show up to lose all that XP in our endgame so we can make bigger numbers fly by."

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#72 Jan 14 2014 at 1:14 AM Rating: Good
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domice wrote:
svlyons wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
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Or, just, you know, more people could level tank jobs.

Tanks generally have the most responsibility in this game in most of its group content though, because they generally are the pullers. In almost any dungeon/raid setting, these guys set the pace. Not everyone wants that responsibility.

Not everyone has to be a tank. Just 1 in 4 people. That's only 25%.

Yeah but there is proly no where near that many tanks in the population.

And that's the problem. Adding penalties for withdrawing from groups being formed doesn't address the underlying issue: tanks can get away with murder because there aren't enough people playing as tanks.
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#73 Jan 14 2014 at 1:21 AM Rating: Good
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I always took notice of other player's performance in XI, but maybe it was because I was co-lead of an HNM shell. Personally, I think it was because there were so few opportunities in the game's encounters to really be exceptional. All a red mage or white mage had to do for me to think they were great was keep the group buffed, pay attention to and remove debuffs quickly and keep people alive. In most situations in XI that wasn't really hard to do... yet I still probably spent half of the time I was in groups as a tank either blinded, slowed, paralyzed, ect. Smiley: lol
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#74 Jan 14 2014 at 3:38 AM Rating: Good
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One big step to fix this would be SE making "Join in progress" mutually exclusive from "Join new run" (i.e. the default).

The other problem at the moment is people wanting to get into Roulette with their friends/hubbies etc. They basically keep rolling DF groups until they end up in the same party. Again, not really their fault that it annoys everyone else.
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#75 Jan 14 2014 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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svlyons wrote:
domice wrote:
svlyons wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
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Or, just, you know, more people could level tank jobs.

Tanks generally have the most responsibility in this game in most of its group content though, because they generally are the pullers. In almost any dungeon/raid setting, these guys set the pace. Not everyone wants that responsibility.

Not everyone has to be a tank. Just 1 in 4 people. That's only 25%.

Yeah but there is proly no where near that many tanks in the population.

And that's the problem. Adding penalties for withdrawing from groups being formed doesn't address the underlying issue: tanks can get away with murder because there aren't enough people playing as tanks.


Yup but people shouldn't be upset if that's what they allowed. People will have 3 jobs leveled but they are all dps. Adding a penalty doesn't really hurt the tank just the dps. I Que for a dungeon with withdraw 2 times hit with a penalty and go off and run dailies maps side quest level another job and craft don't care. Now all that does is drop the tank population trying to run a dungeon from about 15% to 10% a far cry from the 25% you b need. Now the wait times will balloon up
#76 Jan 14 2014 at 9:41 AM Rating: Decent
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What are we really talking about though...?

Someone joins and leaves even 10 times, who cares. eventually he'll go away and/or stop when he/she realizes there arent any in progress groups going on, and 2 minutes later a new tank will have joined regardless.

Is it anoying? sure, slightly.

Will it stop you from getting a duty? No. It wont reset or quit your place in the queue, once you're first in line, you stay first in line till every role has the right amount of people who are also first in line and the duty starts.

I'm starting to think people are getting too frustrated about this. More than it should.
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