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Tanks Trolling the DFFollow

#102 Jan 17 2014 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
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nonameoflevi wrote:
svlyons wrote:
squiress wrote:
I don't get why these people even play the game if they don't want to do the content.

After doing WP dozens and dozens of times already, can you blame them for wanting to make the most of their time? You don't even get to do unusual oddball strategies with DF runs.

It takes no time at all to cap ToP and ToP and there are many different ways to do it. The WP grind is only if they choose it now.

Or if Duty Roulette chooses it for them. AK is probably getting to that point too. I'm sure CB and Haukke Manor HM will feel that way pretty soon too. From what I've heard, Pharos Sirius can be bad enough that I could see people withdrawing from there and just eating the lock out penalty.
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#103 Jan 20 2014 at 10:58 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The following changes have been made to the Labyrinth of the Ancients:

When queuing to join a party in progress, the party's current progression will no longer be shown by the Duty Finder.

Oh, snap!

Source: Patch 2.15 Notes

Edited, Jan 21st 2014 12:47pm by fatpolomanjr
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#104 Jan 21 2014 at 4:12 AM Rating: Default
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fatpolomanjr wrote:
Quote:
When queuing to join a party in progress, the party's current progression will no longer be shown by the Duty Finder.

Oh, snap!

Source: Patch 2.15 Notes

Edited, Jan 20th 2014 8:59pm by fatpolomanjr

So much for ever getting a replacement again when you need it. Good work trolling the dev's guys, what's the next thing you want to break?

By popular demand, the next thing for people to whine about is:

*drum roffle*

People leaving the party instantly when it starts and it's not an in progress party. Hurray.

Dont say nobody warned you.
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#105 Jan 21 2014 at 5:40 AM Rating: Good
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Well assuming you mean to cap ToM,

Daily HL = 70-90
Turn 1 and 2 of bcob = another 90
If you choose to do CT, thats another 100

All of that is doable in about 2-3 hours and puts you at 370/450

The only people i know who spam wp (when copper bell is so much easier/faster, and HM is even easier/faster with a good pt) are people to afraid of new content.
#106 Jan 21 2014 at 5:41 AM Rating: Default
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Also trolololol at the new DF change, shame it looks like its just for CT (not seeing status of join in progress until you join.)
#107 Jan 21 2014 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
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KojiroSoma wrote:
fatpolomanjr wrote:
Quote:
When queuing to join a party in progress, the party's current progression will no longer be shown by the Duty Finder.

Oh, snap!

Source: Patch 2.15 Notes

Edited, Jan 20th 2014 8:59pm by fatpolomanjr

So much for ever getting a replacement again when you need it. Good work trolling the dev's guys, what's the next thing you want to break?

By popular demand, the next thing for people to whine about is:

*drum roffle*

People leaving the party instantly when it starts and it's not an in progress party. Hurray.

Dont say nobody warned you.


Partially right.. Since it was not taken out that of duty that you can join a duty in progress people at the end will still get their tank...
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#108 Jan 21 2014 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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KojiroSoma wrote:
By popular demand, the next thing for people to whine about is:

*drum roffle*

People leaving the party instantly when it starts and it's not an in progress party. Hurray.

Dont say nobody warned you.


Actually, that was already happening even before this patch. People (well tanks really) would insta-drop the Main Scenario DR if they didn't get the Ultima speedrun they were hoping for. But at least now replacement tanks can join in progress.
#109 Jan 21 2014 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
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KojiroSoma wrote:
[quote=fatpolomanjr]
So much for ever getting a replacement again when you need it. Good work trolling the dev's guys, what's the next thing you want to break?

By popular demand, the next thing for people to whine about is:

*drum roffle*

People leaving the party instantly when it starts and it's not an in progress party. Hurray.

Dont say nobody warned you.



Sounds to me like a butt hurt tank sad he cant be lazy and try to only join runs where all the work is almost done....

Honestly you can already leave any instance with no penalty if you dont like it, you just fake a DC like everyone else does, wait 5 minutes for auto boot, and profit.
#110 Jan 21 2014 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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KojiroSoma wrote:

By popular demand, the next thing for people to whine about is:

*drum roffle*

People leaving the party instantly when it starts and it's not an in progress party. Hurray.

Dont say nobody warned you.



Well they are adding this

Quote:
System

The Vote Abandon function has been added, making it possible to abandon a duty without penalty if the following conditions are met:
Light Party
Two players (not including the initiating player) must vote Yes to disband and end the duty.

Full Party
4 players (not including the initiating player) must vote Yes to disband and end the duty.

1. While in a duty, open the Duty Finder interface under Duty on the main menu, then select Vote Abandon.



2. All party members will be presented with a window to vote. If the majority votes Yes within 30 seconds, the duty will be abandoned.



Also

Quote:
The following changes have been made to the Labyrinth of the Ancients:
When queuing to join a party in progress, the party's current progression will no longer be shown by the Duty Finder.


this makes me think its only for CT and not other dungeons, unless I missed something I could be wrong.
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#111 Jan 21 2014 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Thats what i said in my post way up yonder. I cant test till i get home but it made it sound like this was only for CT
#112 Jan 21 2014 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Jeskradha wrote:
Quote:
The following changes have been made to the Labyrinth of the Ancients:
When queuing to join a party in progress, the party's current progression will no longer be shown by the Duty Finder.


this makes me think its only for CT and not other dungeons, unless I missed something I could be wrong.

So if I'm a tank who drops queue until I find a group close to the end of a run, I won't be able to see progress if I'm joining a group until I accept. Did they add a measure that would stop me from dropping once I get inside and find out? I'm just using myself as an example btw. I don't game the queue for faster runs.
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#113 Jan 21 2014 at 2:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Jeskradha wrote:
Quote:
The following changes have been made to the Labyrinth of the Ancients:
When queuing to join a party in progress, the party's current progression will no longer be shown by the Duty Finder.


this makes me think its only for CT and not other dungeons, unless I missed something I could be wrong.

So if I'm a tank who drops queue until I find a group close to the end of a run, I won't be able to see progress if I'm joining a group until I accept. Did they add a measure that would stop me from dropping once I get inside and find out? I'm just using myself as an example btw. I don't game the queue for faster runs.


Up until now, dropping from a pre-made or in-progress didn't hit you with the wait time. I didn't see anything that changed that.
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#114 Jan 21 2014 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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You know make it so people want to be tanks. That fixes the shortage issue.. give people who tank exclusive gear, make it a little easier job. What ever it take to make more people want to be tanks.

Give more reward for running a whole dungeon like credits used to buy exclusive gear,,, You want to see tank trying to run full dungeons as many times as they can, this is the answer

Edited, Jan 21st 2014 3:26pm by Nashred
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#115 Jan 21 2014 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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Tanking is actually an easier job than DPS or healing in this game, according to a friend who has 50 MNK, 50 PLD, and 40ish WHM so far.

Nobody wants to be a tank because they don't put out big numbers. That, and a tank is expected to take on a leadership role in a party since they MUST be the first person to go anywhere with monsters. Not everyone likes to be a leader.
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#116 Jan 21 2014 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
Tanking is actually an easier job than DPS or healing in this game, according to a friend who has 50 MNK, 50 PLD, and 40ish WHM so far.

Nobody wants to be a tank because they don't put out big numbers. That, and a tank is expected to take on a leadership role in a party since they MUST be the first person to go anywhere with monsters. Not everyone likes to be a leader.


No way is tanking easier than a dps.. Try keeping up with adds and hitting 8 things at once especially at low levels.. making sure the healer aint getting hit.. targeting all the different adds and putting kill order up...


Except maybe on some single tank mobs like titan where the tank basically just stands in one spot and holds hate. It depends on what you are doing but in most cases no way.







Edited, Jan 21st 2014 3:32pm by Nashred
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#117 Jan 21 2014 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Sure is a lot of posts about this. I might get hate for it but here's why I do it when i queue for high level dungeons on my Paladin.

.
..
..
..
.

So i can play with my healer GF in random high level. We do this without fail every day. It might be annoying that its popping but another tank will pick it up and you'll get to go.

Its something they said they will implement shortly (grouping for randoms btw)
#118 Jan 21 2014 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Tanking is actually an easier job than DPS or healing in this game, according to a friend who has 50 MNK, 50 PLD, and 40ish WHM so far.

Nobody wants to be a tank because they don't put out big numbers. That, and a tank is expected to take on a leadership role in a party since they MUST be the first person to go anywhere with monsters. Not everyone likes to be a leader.


No way is tanking easier than a dps.. Try keeping up with adds and hitting 8 things at once especially at low levels.. making sure the healer aint getting hit.. targeting all the different adds and putting kill order up...


Except maybe on some single tank mobs like titan where the tank basically just stands in one spot and holds hate..


You know what they say... follow by example Smiley: nod

I capped all of the current tanking jobs in XIV. I found it to be pretty easy, but most of the encounters in XIV aren't difficult on their own. The only time I struggled to maintain control it was a result of other players not doing what they were supposed to do(placement, attacking unmarked targets, ect.). I don't think any of the roles are particularly difficult as long as you're paying attention.
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#119 Jan 21 2014 at 2:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Personally, I think healing is the toughest job by far. At least tanking and DPS primarily comes down wearing the right gear before showing up and having efficient routines: knowing your rotations, knowing what and when to dodge, knowing the progression of the fight you're in, etc. etc.

But healing is all about dealing with the unpredictable. Lag, inexperience, random setups from the DF... no fight is ever the same, people get hurt at different times for different reasons. On the fly, you have to constantly prioritize who needs what spell now, and if you get it wrong, everyone wipes.

Healing. Definitely the toughest job.
#120 Jan 21 2014 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Nashred wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Tanking is actually an easier job than DPS or healing in this game, according to a friend who has 50 MNK, 50 PLD, and 40ish WHM so far.

Nobody wants to be a tank because they don't put out big numbers. That, and a tank is expected to take on a leadership role in a party since they MUST be the first person to go anywhere with monsters. Not everyone likes to be a leader.


No way is tanking easier than a dps.. Try keeping up with adds and hitting 8 things at once especially at low levels.. making sure the healer aint getting hit.. targeting all the different adds and putting kill order up...


Except maybe on some single tank mobs like titan where the tank basically just stands in one spot and holds hate..


You know what they say... follow by example Smiley: nod

I capped all of the current tanking jobs in XIV. I found it to be pretty easy, but most of the encounters in XIV aren't difficult on their own. The only time I struggled to maintain control it was a result of other players not doing what they were supposed to do(placement, attacking unmarked targets, ect.). I don't think any of the roles are particularly difficult as long as you're paying attention.


Your getting nit picky and trying to put words in my mouth, no where did I say in that statement it was a hard job, just in most case harder than a dps...

I do disagree sometime healing can be pretty tough, But even though I didn't say it in the statement above sometimes tanking can be tough if you want to be a really good tank...

but I do agree nothing in this game is exceptionally tough except what poor programing throws at you like the lag in titan.

Edited, Jan 21st 2014 3:46pm by Nashred
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#121 Jan 21 2014 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
You know make it so people want to be tanks. That fixes the shortage issue.. give people who tank exclusive gear, make it a little easier job. What ever it take to make more people want to be tanks.

Give more reward for running a whole dungeon like credits used to buy exclusive gear,,, You want to see tank trying to run full dungeons as many times as they can, this is the answer

But if you give tanks more incentive to run full dungeons, they'll now avoid joining ones in progress. You solve one problem but create another.

Really, the only good solution is for more people to play tanks. There's already plenty of benefits to playing a tank job, and most people still choose to play DPS instead.
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#122 Jan 21 2014 at 2:46 PM Rating: Default
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svlyons wrote:
Nashred wrote:
You know make it so people want to be tanks. That fixes the shortage issue.. give people who tank exclusive gear, make it a little easier job. What ever it take to make more people want to be tanks.

Give more reward for running a whole dungeon like credits used to buy exclusive gear,,, You want to see tank trying to run full dungeons as many times as they can, this is the answer

But if you give tanks more incentive to run full dungeons, they'll now avoid joining ones in progress. You solve one problem but create another.



How am I creating another problem. If they dont drop and run the whole dungeon you dont need you wont need to be replacing them.. .. You only need to have join in progress because they are dropping.

I dont get your argument then that creating incentive to run a whole dungeon creates another problem..






Edited, Jan 21st 2014 4:03pm by Nashred
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#123 Jan 21 2014 at 2:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Healing Siren is a great example of this too...it's all about triage...

Also, if your healer or tank goes down, it's over... but you can lose a DPS and keep going...
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#124 Jan 21 2014 at 3:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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I wonder if they are going to make the queue "blind" like with the Duty Finder Roulette. Otherwise it would still be easy for a tank to withdraw from queue upon noticing that there are numbers adding up to 24. In the case that a party member leaves a duty from a Full Party, even if joined in progress, I always thought there was a penalty unless the entire group was pre-made. Guess I'll find out if it is now that way or not by experimenting tonight.

Xoie wrote:
Healing. Definitely the toughest job.

Tanking is only hard to learn for any dungeon or fight the first time around, IMO (I still get tons of anxiety even thinking about tanking fights I've never tanked, e.g. ex primals). When learning, you need to really pay attention to all of the specific positioning for each phase, know when to dodge and when hard-hitting attacks are coming around. Seeing the correct positioning in a video or guide, and leading the mob to the correct position during a run, are often quite different. Especially since you need to build aggro to guide a mob in the first place to get it to follow you.

Healers and tanks share these growing pains, but the difference is that tanks only need to change up their ideal routine whenever bad stuff goes down. Once a tank knows a fight, from then on his job is smooth sailing, par for the course, and any another other phrase synonymous with "routine". Whereas healers are always reactive, since they are responsible for 4-8+ party members that have some of the strangest interactions with enemies.

Therefore, my vote also goes to the healers. Without you my Warrior would have been a forgotten memory.

Edit: oh yeah, and there are a ton of Healer intensive/punishing fights in this game. But I suppose that is the only way aside from instant death, other than a dps check, to punish dps for not dodging consistently: take it out on the healers' healing. I'm sure there are other ways to make the dps role more directly challenging (hence why I like Qarn so much). I just feel bad for the healers on some fights.

Edited, Jan 21st 2014 1:21pm by fatpolomanjr
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#125 Jan 21 2014 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
How am I creating another problem. If they dont drop and run the whole dungeon you dont need you wont need to be replacing them.. .. You only need to have join in progress because they are dropping.

I dont get your argument then that creating incentive to run a whole dungeon creates another problem..

You can lose members for lots of reasons. The tank could d/c because his Internet connection dies. The tank could leave because his FC wants him to come do something and won't wait for him to finish the current dungeon. The tank could leave just because he didn't like the way someone looked at him.

Parties lose members for all sorts of different reasons. The join in progress option is there to help those parties be able to finish their run rather than simply having to abandon it and start over. If the incentives for doing a full dungeon run from the beginning are so much better than for joining a run in progress, players won't choose the option to join in progress and those parties will have a harder time replenishing their ranks. That's the problem you potentially create.
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#126 Jan 21 2014 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
You know what they say... follow by example Smiley: nod

I capped all of the current tanking jobs in XIV. I found it to be pretty easy, but most of the encounters in XIV aren't difficult on their own. The only time I struggled to maintain control it was a result of other players not doing what they were supposed to do(placement, attacking unmarked targets, ect.). I don't think any of the roles are particularly difficult as long as you're paying attention.


Your getting nit picky and trying to put words in my mouth, no where did I say in that statement it was a hard job, just in most case harder than a dps...


Who is putting words in your mouth? Where did I accuse you of saying something you didn't say?

All I was trying to do was highlight the fact that tanking wasn't really difficult. Kinda moot to raise the point that tanking isn't easier than DPS. Even if it isn't, they're both simple. I only played CNJ up to 34 so I can't speak on healing, but tanking and DPS weren't challenging for me.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
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