Raise + well-timed AOE Cure prevents weakness...Follow

...and I don't think it's an exploit.

Initially, I thought this was some wild fantasy, but after seeing a YouTube where it was demonstrated and successfully performing it myself on both White Mage and Scholar, it seems legit (and I don't mean that sarcastically).

The thing is, as a healer, you're almost led to discovering this trick. First, you "inexplicably" can't target someone directly with a spell for several seconds after raising (or resurrecting them, as the case may be), but strangely, AoE casts hit just fine. So it seems logical you would eventually discover the "exploit" after getting used to setting up an AoE cure after raising someone sooner or later. Also, when you do time the AoE just right, there is a white and blue "just raised" status icon that appears rather than the red, black, and green weakness icon. So, at least there is an acknowledgement in place that this situation was anticipated. So I'm beginning to think this was an intentional design.

It's cool... but it also bothers me a little.

I've had a tank rage quit on me because I couldn't successfully perform this feat on command, so that's one reason I'm not a fan. It's nice to find a hidden trick, but healers who are just starting out aren't just going to know how to do this without at least some job quest pointing out you can pull this off, and there are no end of abusive jerks who are going to give healers a hard time over not automatically knowing how to do this.

But the other thing that's bad is that if you're raising someone who died in combat... the thing that murdered him or her is still rampaging around trying to add a few notches to that list. Even if you can Swiftcast the raise, you have to deal with dodging AoE and keeping everyone else alive without standing in place waiting to perfectly time that AoE cure so the raised victim doesn't rage with the "indignity" of weakness. It just seems like one more high-pressure expectation that you won't have time to answer for when there's a boss raging around.

So, what do you think of this? Is it an exploit or a hidden trick? Should this be the measure of what separates the good healers from the bad or is this another unrealistic expectation on a demanding role?

I've got a thing where I get a firestarter proc, then let the next Fire I in the cast go off at the same time I spam the Fire III button. Technically the proc is supposed to disappear after I cast the next spell. I kind of sneak it in. I get two casts in back to back, both off of Astral Fire III. I get in 600-800 extra damage that way.

Also,

Had a whm the other day tell me that I could sleep the Succubus in AK...

Tanks get flack as well. Just listen to the gripes that result when the tank forgets (or refuses) to mark targets.

Point is, there are douchebags of every species.

Lol, if I'm fighting titan and the tank isn't calling the plumes with a <se.7> macro.... then I just dodge the plumes best i can and hope I friended the tank who did.

Edited, Sep 30th 2013 2:53pm by Valkayree

Edited, Oct 1st 2013 9:58am by Valkayree

Titan lives in the spawnkill capital of the world.

This is precisely the kind of situation I thought might occur when I started to read your OP.

Reminds me a bit of Divine Seal + Raise in FFXI removing weakness / restoring more lost exp, only that was completely untrue.

I think DPS should not die ever and blame them for doing so by not using a <call> to dodge circles of doom!

i'm not 100% on the whole use /assist thing. Its much easier to just use target markers. Tanks sometimes need to switch targets throughout a skirmish. I suppose its all in how you use the /assist macro. I certainly wouldn't macro it into abilities. In my experience, target marking is all around more foolproof. Even after running AK a zillion times and knowing target priority, things can still get confusing for people every once in awhile without markers.

edit: I even prefer marking as a DD over /assisting, because that way i know everyone is on the same page. I've definitely had to do that before..

Edited, Sep 30th 2013 5:15pm by Llester

It's not legit, it adds a buff before weakness can be applied. I don't like to do it because it definitely feels like a glitch.

Unfortunately, it's not that easy in a multithreaded OO environment.

What should happen is that a lock should be placed on the target object so that no changes can be made to its members (current hp, buffs) by other methods until the spell_raise method completes.

I completely agree. FFXI had this problem as well.

I can't count the number of time's I've tried to raise, only to be killed mid-animation.

The fact that you need to time it immediately screams bug to me. You're basically interrupting some method mid-stream and causing an unexpected outcome. I know I won't be touching it with a ten-foot pole. Now I regret going CNJ...

It's an exploit and an accepted bug by SE, they just haven't acted on it yet. If you notice, much like FFXI, Weakness and "Raise" shares a slot which is why this happens.

(In XI Sublimation and Refresh (Spell) shares a slot.)

I'm sure its a bug which then will somehow be an exploit. You are not getting a "reraise" buff when its done you are getting the same raise that was on you to start. Its also not hard to time. I would stay clear of doing this on purpose. Now if you are in the heat of a battle and spamming aoe heals and it happens then so be it.

Since the trick doesn't result in an excessive advantage, they are most likely silently acknowleding it, determining if a related ability should exist, and working to code it out of the game.

However, considering some of the stunts pulled with nin and rdm back in the day, this could be something they may not address for years. At which point it will become a standard method of play (like stoneskin/phalanx/enspell/zerodmg rdm soloing).

This is not something SE has typically banned people for. And they haven't made a real stink about it yet. But, then again, I don't play whm or sch, so I am very much without a care in this matter...