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Yoshi P comments on Housing PricesFollow

#27 Dec 16 2013 at 10:26 AM Rating: Excellent
I sit at around 10k. Then I make some money, say 50k, then I go gear up some off-class. Back to 10k.

I just don't enjoy crafting or gathering all that much. There I said it. I did at one point but then I got bored with it. That is the route to making Gil though, as well as understanding the market and spending time at the AH board. Nah, I'll just keep doing what I enjoy instead.

So my FC wants to get a house and they will ask, "Gnu you have anything to contribute?" and I'm going to be like, "Not really, sorry. ><" This is the first time my personal play style is going to be a detriment to my FC. I guess we need a new level of promotions in our FC, "House Owners" or something, which I won't be part of.

Really though, the profits for RMT just shot through the roof. Anyone watch prices on Gil? I don't, but I can guess they just skyrocketed. Yoshi has just made Gil selling/buying a critical part of being a high-end player in FFXIV.

FC housing should have been bought with FC participation/rank credits. And that's all there is to it.


#28 Dec 16 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
Gnu wrote:
I sit at around 10k. Then I make some money, say 50k, then I go gear up some off-class. Back to 10k.

I just don't enjoy crafting or gathering all that much. There I said it. I did at one point but then I got bored with it. That is the route to making Gil though, as well as understanding the market and spending time at the AH board. Nah, I'll just keep doing what I enjoy instead.

So my FC wants to get a house and they will ask, "Gnu you have anything to contribute?" and I'm going to be like, "Not really, sorry. ><" This is the first time my personal play style is going to be a detriment to my FC. I guess we need a new level of promotions in our FC, "House Owners" or something, which I won't be part of.

Really though, the profits for RMT just shot through the roof. Anyone watch prices on Gil? I don't, but I can guess they just skyrocketed. Yoshi has just made Gil selling/buying a critical part of being a high-end player in FFXIV.

FC housing should have been bought with FC participation/rank credits. And that's all there is to it.


Or at the very least, participation and rank could have given a discount.


Edited, Dec 16th 2013 11:41am by Catwho
#29 Dec 16 2013 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:


Showmanship and status? Um, I want a house so that our FC can have a place to hold meetings, for members to craft, where we can gather for fun events, and where we can decorate it out how we want to showcase our accomplishments as a group. As it stands currently, that goal is completely out of reach for us for the foreseeable future. Please don't make generalizations about what people want and why.

Of course there's going to be polarizing opinions. There are opinions like that on everything in the world that contrast greatly. But I'd go so far as to say the incredibly vast majority of players... including JP and EU, think the prices are bogus.



You completely missed the fact that the subject changed about half way. Maybe I should have bracketed the two sections.
You won't find me disagreeing that the prices are waaaaay too high in my opinion, even for a Dutch Auction. But I explained my speculation on that, even if I'm not happy about it - this seems like a stalling tactic from SE so they can buy themselves time to get more server structure for Housing.

I've said this before, and I'll say it til I die: MMO's reward the patient, and punish the hasty. The prices will go down on their own, they will likely get adjusted too, given the reaction it garnered out of the player base.

I do not expect either one of these to happen quickly, however, and I recommend people resign themselves to that.

For me, this is one of those situations where I just roll my eyes and move onto the next subject - which for me seems to be this growing trend of a lack of patience in gamerspeople in general. Which, often, winds up becoming contradicting to a lot of their other feedback.

Take Lockouts for instance: People would complain if they were allowed to do Coil once daily at 1/7th the drop rate. They would complain AND quit if they could simply grind it until they had everything and then griped that it was too easy. There's no way for SE to win in this situation, at all. I don't envy their position.
#30 Dec 16 2013 at 10:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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As a fairly casual player, I was stunned by these prices. I'm in a small FC with friends who are just as casual as me, we're all still leveling/gearing up just so we can maybe give Coil a try after the holidays. We figured we'll be playing this for a long time, no rush, right? And everyone kept saying gil doesn't mean as much in ARR...heh...our bank has about 400k.

This was an interesting read:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/16/the-mog-log-extra-final-fantasy-xivs-great-housing-fiasco/
#31 Dec 16 2013 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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HonkeyKong29 wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
HonkeyKong29 wrote:
i dont understand how every player doesn't have at least 1 million gil. if you spent any time crafting/running wp that should be no problem. my FC is 4 friends from rl and we're at about 5.5 mil. our goal is to get to about 6 mil and then wait for a small plot price to come down. No need to panic here .... everyone will get their land in the long run. Just gotta work for it I guess.


Maybe not everyone wants to spend every single gil they've earned in the past 3.5 months on a furniture warehouse :)

I get it .... but there aren't really a ton of things to blow gil on in this game.

And because there aren't a ton of things to blow gil on, there isn't much incentive to spend play time focusing on making gil.
#32 Dec 16 2013 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
[quote=Catwho]

It would be nice of him to come to terms with the fact that there is so much negative feedback over the initial prices and fix it. I said, a few days ago, that patch 2.1 will really be the deciding factor when it comes to 14 for many people. If he doesn't level with his community, he's going to find that many people won't put up with it and leave. I hope he looks to his predecessors and learns from their mistakes.

Edited, Dec 16th 2013 9:54am by HitomeOfBismarck


Personally I played pretty casually after the first week and when I quit after a month and a half I had about 4mil (started with 20k). This was after I had gotten Alchemy to 50 with whatever that cost me, but never used it for a single craft after I dinged so it was just a gil sink for me. I mean I guess it all depends on how you play, but to me prices make sense since it is meant for FC, make it cheaper and the only long term goal present in the game is then gone. HOWEVER

I think this is the important part and which you touch upon. Personally I have no issues with the prices, I think they make sense (I am on Excalibur). It is just that, I don't play anymore because this game does not appeal to me in the first place. Yoshi and SE made a game that is meant for people who want things faster etc (I am not saying this is a bad thing just to be clear, just not what I like) and all of a sudden here they release housing which will actually take some/a lot of time and effort for many people to get. It doesn't really make sense to me. They aimed for a certain MMO crowd with ARR, but all of a sudden they turn around completely and make something that mostly only appeals to the type of player that won't play anyway because of the general direction of the games' systems/content etc. I don't know, it doesn't make too much sense to me and I hope they change it to something the players actually think is more reasonable.
#33 Dec 16 2013 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
Prices were already plummeting over the past few weeks. I used to sell earth/lightning crystals for 250 a pop, at the end of November. Now they sell for 100 or less only a couple weeks later. Others are even lower. Even HQ gear prices have dropped. Materia prices, especially high end ones, have completely crashed. From 500k a month ago to 100k or less now for some of the t4s. And now that food doesn't wear on death, those prices are going to plummet. Factor in that people are going to be hoarding now for housing and I can't really imagine the market is going to respond well. I wonder how much gil the RMT are going to sell now... just when they were starting to slow down too, at least on our server. I sincerely hope I'm wrong and this doesn't negatively effect the economy, but I'm certainly concerned.

Crystal prices are determined by how many people are botting that item; legit sales for shards/crystals makes up maybe 20% of the market. When botters get banned, prices go up.

Materia prices dropped because people found out how easy it was to make materia, and then compared fully melded 2 star gear to allaghan and hero's.

I don't see that many people hoarding money to buy a FC house, especially when it gives you nothing other than the ability to say you have a FC house.
#34 Dec 16 2013 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyrist wrote:
For me, this is one of those situations where I just roll my eyes and move onto the next subject - which for me seems to be this growing trend of a lack of patience in gamerspeople in general. Which, often, winds up becoming contradicting to a lot of their other feedback.

Take Lockouts for instance: People would complain if they were allowed to do Coil once daily at 1/7th the drop rate. They would complain AND quit if they could simply grind it until they had everything and then griped that it was too easy. There's no way for SE to win in this situation, at all. I don't envy their position.


Comparing lockouts on the most hardcore content in the game to housing, which was supposed to be something all the players can enjoy, both casual and hardcore, doesn't seem like a fair assessment. Lockouts on hardcore content are required to gate players who spend 24/7 playing from getting everything immediately and then bailing. That's a pretty standard occurrence in all mmos.

FC housing isn't some endgame content that needs to be gated. It's supposed to be a place where FC's can gather together, craft, and design a place for themselves to unite as a group. What they've done has turned it INTO a status symbol which only the rich and truly hardcore can afford, which is a giant slap in the face to the VAST majority of the playerbase. It has nothing to do with being impatient. They've touted this housing content as a huge part of the 2.1 update, and right now next to no one is even going to be experiencing it for 3+ months. That's not people being impatient, that's people saying wtf SE, this is BS.

I'm all for them making hardcore content with lockouts and drops that take some time to get, because that's what endgame is. In fact, I'd like to see much more endgame content like that so it's not quite so one-dimensional. But housing isn't hardcore content. Grinding gil isn't hardcore content. It's just a time and gil sink to keep people playing, and it feels like a cheesy copout how they are implementing it. I didn't miss your points in your other post at all, I just don't agree with your philosophy that the people who are complaining about these costs are just impatient.

I've patiently waited for housing since well before the game launched. If it was even a moderately reasonable price, heck even 20m gil for the largest house, I'd be ok with that because it's a realistic goal for us to shoot for. But 300m gil, or even 150m gil after 3 months isn't just high, it's ludicrous and something we'll have almost zero chance of achieving. It has nothing to do with patience, it has everything to do with feeling cheated out of content that is supposed to be accessible by all.

BelCrono wrote:
Personally I played pretty casually after the first week and when I quit after a month and a half I had about 4mil (started with 20k). This was after I had gotten Alchemy to 50 with whatever that cost me, but never used it for a single craft after I dinged so it was just a gil sink for me. I mean I guess it all depends on how you play, but to me prices make sense since it is meant for FC, make it cheaper and the only long term goal present in the game is then gone.


Wow, I've played since launch, have 5 crafts to 50, a DoL and DoW to 50, and spent a considerable time playing the market board and crafting/farming and have less than 2m gil. So I guess it just depends on what you're doing, but I know that I'm actually one of the richer players in our FC, and we have players who are on every day playing for several hours, so I'm not so sure you're a good indication of the amounts of gil any casual player will have.

Edited, Dec 16th 2013 12:06pm by BartelX

Edited, Dec 16th 2013 12:12pm by BartelX
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#35 Dec 16 2013 at 10:59 AM Rating: Good
I wonder if a very small part of this has to do with the difference in land prices in Japan and the US. A small lot in my neighborhood (1/4 acre) sells for $10,000. That same lot in Tokyo or Kyoto would sell for 10 million yen.

Then again, the JP players are just as outraged about it. So who knows...
#36 Dec 16 2013 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:

Either way, the worst thing you have to do is wait.

---

Seriously what is the matter with people an patience these days?


Yeah, because we haven't been waiting for housing since release, right? In the time since release, people have made how much gil? So... we just need about 8 times that much gil to utilize one of the more anticipated features of 2.1. COOL!

It's not going to work as a gil sink because no one can afford it. It's not going to work as a fun casual event to keep less hardcore players occupied because they can't afford it. It doesn't work as new content for 90% of the players because 90% of them can't afford it. Why not just wait until you can accommodate all the players, or instance it. It's all great and awesome they don't want to instance it but then they can't handle every FC getting a house so they put up a huge barrier to entry that relies on either A) hoarding the gil from other players or B) finding some gill fountain that currently doesn't exist. (which I hope is remedied with the daily quests but I'm still doubtful.)
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#37 Dec 16 2013 at 11:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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reptiletim wrote:
I hate to say it but all the high price is going to do is encourage gil buying. Like it or not people are going to look for the path of least resistance. Some LS members said last night they were already getting spam /tells advertising money for housing so the gil sellers are already looking to cash in.


Eww. Smiley: frown
#38 Dec 16 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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stouter wrote:
Crystal prices are determined by how many people are botting that item; legit sales for shards/crystals makes up maybe 20% of the market. When botters get banned, prices go up.

Materia prices dropped because people found out how easy it was to make materia, and then compared fully melded 2 star gear to allaghan and hero's.

I don't see that many people hoarding money to buy a FC house, especially when it gives you nothing other than the ability to say you have a FC house.


Actually, crystal prices are determined by the demand for them. Yes, gilsellers probably sell a majority, but the prices are set by how much people are willing to buy for. If people aren't buying at 200 because the market is saturated or people are hoarding gil, the price drops due to a low demand and high supply.

As far as people hoarding, pretty much everything on the boards in Ultros dropped about 10-30% in the past few days since housing prices were announced. I'd say that's pretty significant and shows that many people are hoarding gil.
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#39 Dec 16 2013 at 11:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
I wonder if a very small part of this has to do with the difference in land prices in Japan and the US. A small lot in my neighborhood (1/4 acre) sells for $10,000. That same lot in Tokyo or Kyoto would sell for 10 million yen.

Then again, the JP players are just as outraged about it. So who knows...


Lets not forget about the difference in land prices between California and Texas. It was so great at one point that people would work from California for 2 years and have enough to buy three houses in Texas that they could buy and then rent out to make money.
#40 Dec 16 2013 at 11:26 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
As far as people hoarding, pretty much everything on the boards in Ultros dropped about 10-30% in the past few days since housing prices were announced. I'd say that's pretty significant and shows that many people are hoarding gil.


I haven't been able to log on in a few weeks because of work but my first thought when I read the housing prices was "This is going to tank economies. WTH are they thinking?". And for being so concerned (rightfully so) about RMT they just went and gave them the Golden Ticket.
#41 Dec 16 2013 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:


I've patiently waited for housing since well before the game launched. If it was even a moderately reasonable price, heck even 20m gil for the largest house, I'd be ok with that because it's a realistic goal for us to shoot for. But 300m gil, or even 150m gil after 3 months isn't just high, it's ludicrous and something we'll have almost zero chance of achieving. It has nothing to do with patience, it has everything to do with feeling cheated out of content that is supposed to be accessible by all.

Wow, I've played since launch, have 5 crafts to 50, a DoL and DoW to 50, and spent a considerable time playing the market board and crafting/farming and have less than 2m gil. So I guess it just depends on what you're doing, but I know that I'm actually one of the richer players in our FC, and we have players who are on every day playing for several hours, so I'm not so sure you're a good indication of the amounts of gil any casual player will have.



If I read correctly, it is 8 mil for a small house on Ultros. I dont feel so bad if ZAM is talking about problems getting a FC house. You guys are constantly crafting and gathering. We've got about half of what we need in my FC. I see us reaching our goal in a month or so, but the cost was indeed a shocker. We were thinking 2-3 mil for a small house...
#42 Dec 16 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Quote:
As far as people hoarding, pretty much everything on the boards in Ultros dropped about 10-30% in the past few days since housing prices were announced. I'd say that's pretty significant and shows that many people are hoarding gil.


I haven't been able to log on in a few weeks because of work but my first thought when I read the housing prices was "This is going to tank economies. WTH are they thinking?". And for being so concerned (rightfully so) about RMT they just went and gave them the Golden Ticket.


Lol! Guess its time to make fish worth something finally. Smiley: nod
#43 Dec 16 2013 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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Valkayree wrote:
BartelX wrote:


I've patiently waited for housing since well before the game launched. If it was even a moderately reasonable price, heck even 20m gil for the largest house, I'd be ok with that because it's a realistic goal for us to shoot for. But 300m gil, or even 150m gil after 3 months isn't just high, it's ludicrous and something we'll have almost zero chance of achieving. It has nothing to do with patience, it has everything to do with feeling cheated out of content that is supposed to be accessible by all.

Wow, I've played since launch, have 5 crafts to 50, a DoL and DoW to 50, and spent a considerable time playing the market board and crafting/farming and have less than 2m gil. So I guess it just depends on what you're doing, but I know that I'm actually one of the richer players in our FC, and we have players who are on every day playing for several hours, so I'm not so sure you're a good indication of the amounts of gil any casual player will have.



If I read correctly, it is 8 mil for a small house on Ultros. I dont feel so bad if ZAM is talking about problems getting a FC house. You guys are constantly crafting and gathering. We've got about half of what we need in my FC. I see us reaching our goal in a month or so, but the cost was indeed a shocker. We were thinking 2-3 mil for a small house...


The problem is, since we're a big FC we want to get a big house. I mean, it doesn't make a lot of sense for us to get the small house when we have about 40-50 active players. But if we try for a big house, even a 5th tier after 3 months is at a price that would cost each member over 1m gil. That's more than most have even earned in their whole 4 months of playing. That's just really frustrating.
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#44 Dec 16 2013 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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Valkayree wrote:
BartelX wrote:


I've patiently waited for housing since well before the game launched. If it was even a moderately reasonable price, heck even 20m gil for the largest house, I'd be ok with that because it's a realistic goal for us to shoot for. But 300m gil, or even 150m gil after 3 months isn't just high, it's ludicrous and something we'll have almost zero chance of achieving. It has nothing to do with patience, it has everything to do with feeling cheated out of content that is supposed to be accessible by all.

Wow, I've played since launch, have 5 crafts to 50, a DoL and DoW to 50, and spent a considerable time playing the market board and crafting/farming and have less than 2m gil. So I guess it just depends on what you're doing, but I know that I'm actually one of the richer players in our FC, and we have players who are on every day playing for several hours, so I'm not so sure you're a good indication of the amounts of gil any casual player will have.



If I read correctly, it is 8 mil for a small house on Ultros. I dont feel so bad if ZAM is talking about problems getting a FC house. You guys are constantly crafting and gathering. We've got about half of what we need in my FC. I see us reaching our goal in a month or so, but the cost was indeed a shocker. We were thinking 2-3 mil for a small house...


I've been holding onto cash for quite some time waiting for the prices to be announced. I've got nearly every gold bag I've ever received from a quest or dungeon on my retainer and had planned on donating them all for housing. Now, I think if we all ponied up that much, we couldn't even get close to the small house. The prices are outrageous, period. This move just seems so out of touch.
#45 Dec 16 2013 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Like it was said in another thread, I don't think SE has the server capacity for it right now, so this is what they did. You make reasonable prices, everyone jumps on it and overload.


Months after the 3102 fiasco and they still don't have server capacity? Really?

If you make the prices reasonable, everyone can participate and more of your players will actually get to experience the content. Isn't that the point?
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#46 Dec 16 2013 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
BartelX wrote:


I've patiently waited for housing since well before the game launched. If it was even a moderately reasonable price, heck even 20m gil for the largest house, I'd be ok with that because it's a realistic goal for us to shoot for. But 300m gil, or even 150m gil after 3 months isn't just high, it's ludicrous and something we'll have almost zero chance of achieving. It has nothing to do with patience, it has everything to do with feeling cheated out of content that is supposed to be accessible by all.

Wow, I've played since launch, have 5 crafts to 50, a DoL and DoW to 50, and spent a considerable time playing the market board and crafting/farming and have less than 2m gil. So I guess it just depends on what you're doing, but I know that I'm actually one of the richer players in our FC, and we have players who are on every day playing for several hours, so I'm not so sure you're a good indication of the amounts of gil any casual player will have.



If I read correctly, it is 8 mil for a small house on Ultros. I dont feel so bad if ZAM is talking about problems getting a FC house. You guys are constantly crafting and gathering. We've got about half of what we need in my FC. I see us reaching our goal in a month or so, but the cost was indeed a shocker. We were thinking 2-3 mil for a small house...


The problem is, since we're a big FC we want to get a big house. I mean, it doesn't make a lot of sense for us to get the small house when we have about 40-50 active players. But if we try for a big house, even a 5th tier after 3 months is at a price that would cost each member over 1m gil. That's more than most have even earned in their whole 4 months of playing. That's just really frustrating.


Yeah 8-10 million for a small, 30-37.5 million for medium, and 100-125 million for a large is just ridiculous.

I would get a small and bring the cup back for refills.
#47 Dec 16 2013 at 12:13 PM Rating: Excellent
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Like it was said in another thread, I don't think SE has the server capacity for it right now, so this is what they did. You make reasonable prices, everyone jumps on it and overload.


Months after the 3102 fiasco and they still don't have server capacity? Really?

If you make the prices reasonable, everyone can participate and more of your players will actually get to experience the content. Isn't that the point?


^ This. I get the feeling they don't have the capacity and cannot admit that they don't because of 3102-palooza.

Quote:
Yeah 8-10 million for a small, 30-37.5 million for medium, and 100-125 million for a large is just ridiculous.

I would get a small and bring the cup back for refills.


Or get a water cup and go to the fountain and fill it with soda Smiley: lol
#48 Dec 16 2013 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent
After actually looking at all the numbers and seeing what is possible and what is not... Holy Nuts!

This is going to **** everyone off just in time to completely overshadow how very awesome all the changes are in Patch 2.1.

What a disaster. I just realized our FC may even break apart, if the richest players decide to ally with a larger FC so they can actually get the furniture bonuses of the larger houses. Why stay with our mid-sized FC and just nerf yourself forever with a small-sized FC plot? We are going to lose at least a few members no doubt, specifically those members that would be able to contribute most to us being able to get a SMALL house.

This is gonna blow.
#49 Dec 16 2013 at 12:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Gnu wrote:
After actually looking at all the numbers and seeing what is possible and what is not... Holy Nuts!

This is going to **** everyone off just in time to completely overshadow how very awesome all the changes are in Patch 2.1.

What a disaster. I just realized our FC may even break apart, if the richest players decide to ally with a larger FC so they can actually get the furniture bonuses of the larger houses. Why stay with our mid-sized FC and just nerf yourself forever with a small-sized FC plot? We are going to lose at least a few members no doubt, specifically those members that would be able to contribute most to us being able to get a SMALL house.

This is gonna blow.


Gah that bites man, sorry. My FC is mid sized but I'm not afraid of losing people because we are all friends IRL...we'll just be homeless for the forseeable future.
#50 Dec 16 2013 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Community and mainstream sites are starting to comment on it. Seems it's raised a few eyebrows elsewhere in MMO circles.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/16/the-mog-log-extra-final-fantasy-xivs-great-housing-fiasco/
#51 Dec 16 2013 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
SolomonGrundy wrote:
Community and mainstream sites are starting to comment on it. Seems it's raised a few eyebrows elsewhere in MMO circles.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/16/the-mog-log-extra-final-fantasy-xivs-great-housing-fiasco/


Interesting read. I like how the WTF reaction was across the board.
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