By now I'm sure lots of you are furious over the new hunt system as am I. For being NM's these monsters are pathetically weak.
I ran into one by chance in U' Ghamaro mines and soloed it with ease.
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I doubt most players have found an S mark yet.
It's easy to make a knee-jerk reaction base off of congestion and make off color remarks. It's not so easy to seperate oneself from the experience and look at it analyticly.
Right now, too many are hounding B level hunts while at the same time expecting them to be powerful enough to sustain an entire playerbase of interested people.
I've encounter an A mark that took 4 people some effort kill, and these were with assistance. The creature wasn't weak in any case, using AoEs frequently that could deal 5k + damage to an ilvl96 DRG.
An S mark may need a full party's worth.
But never, ever, were they ever designed to function like FATEs. However, that is how they're being treated by the masses and it's a skewed perspective to have.
-------
We seem to be back to this pattern again: Players mob new content that was designed for lower numbers, then blame SE for not deisnging it to be continually mobbed. Then, when the content is no longer overpopulated due to the interest waning, the issue drops. We're seeing this with ST, which is an almost complete replication of what happened with Labyrinth of the Ancients.
I suppose what SE could do is initially design content to handle massive interest loads, and then tune it down later on. However the problem of that occurring is that players will simply expect the content to always be reguarly available for a flood of players to Zerg it.
Another one of those situations where it's impossible to please everyone. Meanwhile, I think I'm going to look for a Hunts LS to partake in.
It's easy to make a knee-jerk reaction base off of congestion and make off color remarks. It's not so easy to seperate oneself from the experience and look at it analyticly.
Right now, too many are hounding B level hunts while at the same time expecting them to be powerful enough to sustain an entire playerbase of interested people.
I've encounter an A mark that took 4 people some effort kill, and these were with assistance. The creature wasn't weak in any case, using AoEs frequently that could deal 5k + damage to an ilvl96 DRG.
An S mark may need a full party's worth.
But never, ever, were they ever designed to function like FATEs. However, that is how they're being treated by the masses and it's a skewed perspective to have.
-------
We seem to be back to this pattern again: Players mob new content that was designed for lower numbers, then blame SE for not deisnging it to be continually mobbed. Then, when the content is no longer overpopulated due to the interest waning, the issue drops. We're seeing this with ST, which is an almost complete replication of what happened with Labyrinth of the Ancients.
I suppose what SE could do is initially design content to handle massive interest loads, and then tune it down later on. However the problem of that occurring is that players will simply expect the content to always be reguarly available for a flood of players to Zerg it.
Another one of those situations where it's impossible to please everyone. Meanwhile, I think I'm going to look for a Hunts LS to partake in.
Generally speaking, it sounds like they need to design mobs like the following:
B = Solo, maybe a 2 minute kill tops.
A = 4 man party, maybe a 5 minute kill tops.
S = 8 man party, maybe a 10 minute kill tops.
From there, add a buff to all the mobs where going over the prescribed number of players above reduces damage received via being on the enmity list to maintain that amount of time needed to kill. They could take it a step further and add more mechanics as population rises, but this is really just emulating the issue of FATEs not scaling dynamically.
Then add Hunts players can pop via farming directly from related mobs or even crafted recipes, particularly cooking and alchemy. And ideally without cooldowns like maps.
B = Solo, maybe a 2 minute kill tops.
A = 4 man party, maybe a 5 minute kill tops.
S = 8 man party, maybe a 10 minute kill tops.
From there, add a buff to all the mobs where going over the prescribed number of players above reduces damage received via being on the enmity list to maintain that amount of time needed to kill. They could take it a step further and add more mechanics as population rises, but this is really just emulating the issue of FATEs not scaling dynamically.
Then add Hunts players can pop via farming directly from related mobs or even crafted recipes, particularly cooking and alchemy. And ideally without cooldowns like maps.
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
It is as if they forgot people play this game.
I don't understand why the weekly elite mark is the SAME ONE FOR EVERYONE! That's stupid! Especially when they can be killed so easily! Why not spread them out? Doesn't everyone get a reward? So no one loses out if people get assistance! Duh! The enemies need to be stronger.
It should be:
B is 4 man
A is 8 man
S is 16+
That would make it more epic.
I don't understand why the weekly elite mark is the SAME ONE FOR EVERYONE! That's stupid! Especially when they can be killed so easily! Why not spread them out? Doesn't everyone get a reward? So no one loses out if people get assistance! Duh! The enemies need to be stronger.
It should be:
B is 4 man
A is 8 man
S is 16+
That would make it more epic.
FFXIV
Articus Vladmir
PLD WHM BRD DRG BLM
Articus Vladmir
PLD WHM BRD DRG BLM
I've enjoyed it so far just randomly rushing off to kill mobs that FC mates have stumbled upon. We fought a salamander enemy in Mor Dhona that had an ability that inflicted 60 seconds of sleep on everyone, and a leviathan looking thing north of Moraby that had some hard hitting attacks as well. Both times we were the only people there fighting the marks. For a total of maybe 10 minutes of transportation and work we came away with a total of 160 myth, 40 soldiery, and 40 allied seals. Pretty sweet, and I haven't even done the quest yet!
It's **** right now. Everything gets absolutely swarmed and in a lot of cases you can't even see the mob before it's already dead. It's like Odin FATE all over again except with mobs that have maybe 0.1% of his HP.
Not even bothering with these until the hype dies WAY down or until they do something about their accessibility. The loot available from this system is pretty underwhelming anyway.
Not even bothering with these until the hype dies WAY down or until they do something about their accessibility. The loot available from this system is pretty underwhelming anyway.
That is the thing, SE or any company knows that there is going to be a big Hype at the start and then it will slow down. They need to create content base on the long run, not on the initial hype of the first 2-3 weeks. That is why I am not really doing the Hunts yet too. There were already plenty of shouts for Naul Hunting parties in Dragonhead. So instead of been 8 people doing the hunting, there is probably 60 people around looking for Naul and see who get it first and everyone else getting mad if they did not get the hate.
No thank you, I can live without that mess, just like the start of the game with Fates, by the time you arrived at the Fate is already over. I will give it 2 weeks before hitting the hunts, there is plenty of other new content I want to do first.
No thank you, I can live without that mess, just like the start of the game with Fates, by the time you arrived at the Fate is already over. I will give it 2 weeks before hitting the hunts, there is plenty of other new content I want to do first.
No point in jumping on new content like this right away for exactly those reasons... too many people trying to do the same thing. You can't expect SE to design content around the "new car smell" then alter it after the luster has worn off. They design the content for the long run best they can. So until people move on to other things people will continue to moan and groan. Personally I think they can just deal with it. I'll get around to hunts in a few weeks or a month.
And of course before long people will complain they are too hard cause not enough people are doing them...
And of course before long people will complain they are too hard cause not enough people are doing them...
Well, and the oversight that the weekly bonus is the only decent thing, and unless you find and tackle an S class monster, you're not going to get any reasonable amount of allied seals out of it. What did they think was going to happen? People hunting it once this week and then leaving it alone? They basicly make you spam-kill the NM spawns for points since some of the actually new stuff is insanely expensive for what it gives (basicly fun for glamour and it ends there)
[XI] Surivere of Valefor
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
My server Lamia has been pretty good about it. The sad part is that the parties operate during the NA morning hours and by the time I get off of work, the three scouring parties have eliminated every S and A rank out there. 
They seriously need to make S and A ranks spawn more often for the ppl who play in the afternoons. But, if you happen to be off that day from work, are in one of those parties, and make it to the nm within a reasonable amoutn of time after it is spawned, you might be able to get in 1 hit in the 4 seconds before it dies. Just make sure that you are in a party so you can get the maximum credit.
For the record:
S rank - spawns 1 per week (need large party)
A rank - spawns 1 per day (need small party)
B rank - spawns 1 per hour (soloable)
The weekly hunt is B rank, spawns 1 per hour, and is soloable.
They seriously need to make S and A ranks spawn more often for the ppl who play in the afternoons. But, if you happen to be off that day from work, are in one of those parties, and make it to the nm within a reasonable amoutn of time after it is spawned, you might be able to get in 1 hit in the 4 seconds before it dies. Just make sure that you are in a party so you can get the maximum credit. For the record:
S rank - spawns 1 per week (need large party)
A rank - spawns 1 per day (need small party)
B rank - spawns 1 per hour (soloable)
The weekly hunt is B rank, spawns 1 per hour, and is soloable.
I'm just glad they don't drop any "must-have-or-you-are-gimp" items. As long as they drop stuff you can get elsewhere, even if it requires more effort, I think they are fine.
As soon as they do, say hello to roaming bots camping those NMs.
As soon as they do, say hello to roaming bots camping those NMs.
What do people expect?
Elite marks are basically notorious monsters.
Getting claim on Leaping Lizzy was tough, and we knew almost exactly where and when LL would pop at any given time... so nobody should be surprised that only a handful of people will claim the current elite mark at any given time.
I am surprised though that everyone has the same elite mark each week, rather than split it up a bit to get players chasing different targets. That's a bizarre design decision.
That said, elite marks = notorious monsters. Claims are supposed to be competitive.
Elite marks are basically notorious monsters.
Getting claim on Leaping Lizzy was tough, and we knew almost exactly where and when LL would pop at any given time... so nobody should be surprised that only a handful of people will claim the current elite mark at any given time.
I am surprised though that everyone has the same elite mark each week, rather than split it up a bit to get players chasing different targets. That's a bizarre design decision.
That said, elite marks = notorious monsters. Claims are supposed to be competitive.
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Thayos wrote:
What do people expect?
Elite marks are basically notorious monsters.
Getting claim on Leaping Lizzy was tough, and we knew almost exactly where and when LL would pop at any given time... so nobody should be surprised that only a handful of people will claim the current elite mark at any given time.
I am surprised though that everyone has the same elite mark each week, rather than split it up a bit to get players chasing different targets. That's a bizarre design decision.
That said, elite marks = notorious monsters. Claims are supposed to be competitive.
Elite marks are basically notorious monsters.
Getting claim on Leaping Lizzy was tough, and we knew almost exactly where and when LL would pop at any given time... so nobody should be surprised that only a handful of people will claim the current elite mark at any given time.
I am surprised though that everyone has the same elite mark each week, rather than split it up a bit to get players chasing different targets. That's a bizarre design decision.
That said, elite marks = notorious monsters. Claims are supposed to be competitive.
The elite mark is B rank, spawns once an hour. Gives anyone a shot at getting a few bonus seals, I guess...
I did my daily hunt, but I'm going to treat elite marks the same way I did in XI... I'm rarely going to seek them out.
I never really liked NM hunting... it was too competitive for me. I didn't like that all my time might yield nothing in return. However, I knew lots of players who really enjoyed the thrill of the hunt, which is why I fully support the concept of NMs. This type of content isn't made for me... but why does everything have to appeal to my tastes? There are probably players right now who are having a blast trying to beat everyone else to the claim. Why is that a bad thing? They've had to wait nearly a near for NMs to finally be brought back to the primary online Final Fantasy title. Let them have their fun!
I really hope SE doesn't make these marks poppable or stick them into instances or make them like leves... that's not hunting.
I'm glad NMs are finally here. Just don't expect me to waste my time chasing them!
I never really liked NM hunting... it was too competitive for me. I didn't like that all my time might yield nothing in return. However, I knew lots of players who really enjoyed the thrill of the hunt, which is why I fully support the concept of NMs. This type of content isn't made for me... but why does everything have to appeal to my tastes? There are probably players right now who are having a blast trying to beat everyone else to the claim. Why is that a bad thing? They've had to wait nearly a near for NMs to finally be brought back to the primary online Final Fantasy title. Let them have their fun!
I really hope SE doesn't make these marks poppable or stick them into instances or make them like leves... that's not hunting.
I'm glad NMs are finally here. Just don't expect me to waste my time chasing them!
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
If we claim elite marks to Notorious Monsters, then there should be no surprise why I'm quintessentially opposed to it. Thayos. I've been in opposition against random spawned monster competition since FFXI days - it has degrading returns on population base when your members feel like they're shut-out of content because the game mechanics permit other players to monopolize desired content.
Hyrist, I think you and I have somewhat similar views on NMs. I'm just OK with sitting on the sidelines, though, because I know that some people really enjoy the competitive aspects of claim hunting.
If everything's accessible to everyone through pop items and spawn points, then you take away some of the thrill and liveliness of the open world, imo.
That said, the system in XIV doesn't really allow players to monopolize content. Not only do elite marks spawn anywhere in a zone, but they can be tagged by anyone. Anyone who wants to commit to hunting has a shot at getting credit.
Still, though, it's just not my cup of tea... maybe after while, when the hype dies down, my thinking will change. Until then, I'm content with doing my daily hunts and slowly accumulating points, or possibly slaying elite marks I happen to come across while traveling.
Edited, Jul 10th 2014 2:09pm by Thayos
If everything's accessible to everyone through pop items and spawn points, then you take away some of the thrill and liveliness of the open world, imo.
That said, the system in XIV doesn't really allow players to monopolize content. Not only do elite marks spawn anywhere in a zone, but they can be tagged by anyone. Anyone who wants to commit to hunting has a shot at getting credit.
Still, though, it's just not my cup of tea... maybe after while, when the hype dies down, my thinking will change. Until then, I'm content with doing my daily hunts and slowly accumulating points, or possibly slaying elite marks I happen to come across while traveling.
Edited, Jul 10th 2014 2:09pm by Thayos
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
This also might bring some of the much-sought-after forced socialization into XIV, since you can form a party of 8 people camping, spread throughout the zone waiting for a pop, and shoot the **** together until it actually spawns.
Some of my more interesting conversations early in my HNM days in XI came while waiting for Adamantoise to spawn at 2AM.
Some of my more interesting conversations early in my HNM days in XI came while waiting for Adamantoise to spawn at 2AM.
Quote:
This also might bring some of the much-sought-after forced socialization into XIV, since you can form a party of 8 people camping, spread throughout the zone waiting for a pop, and shoot the sh*t together until it actually spawns.
True... and with weaker elite marks, it actually seems beneficial to camp as a smaller party than as a huge linkshell. More of a chance of getting credit, no politics, less butthurt, etc.
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
There's a fundamental flaw right now in the system that's an easy fix: Hunts have too few hit points. IF it is something that anyone can jump in on and is encouraged to do so, it really should have at least the health to back it up. Right now, B and A marks really don't. The damage type and defense on these feel fine, but the fights simply don't last long enough to sustain the player behavior the Development team is encouraging.
A dedicated Linkshell for hunts could easily monopolize the hunt content right now, from Ranks B until S. All they would need is good communication.
That said, I also take issue with the idea of saying it has to be randomly spawned to consist of having the 'thrill of a hunt'. Honestly, none of the monsters in the open game exhibit the typical behaviors noted in hunting in real life or in other games - Tracking, Luring, Chasing and Trapping. For lesser prey there could be the thrill of the chase, where for greater prey you might have to act as the bait yourself to pull it out of an area where it would be too powerful to handle. The typical world boss behavior has little to nothing to do with actual 'hunting'. The concept of actually hunting down and cornering a vicious beast.
The closest we got is Leves, and they are highly scripted and easy.
In contrast to this sort of concept, I find the NM 'hunting' concept to be fairly devoid of any real thrill, just tension and disappointment. You just hope you and/or your party gets to the monster before it's killed and you get no credit for it. It's its own thing and some people may enjoy it, but I never found it to be a truly satisfying concept overall. Not when it leads to content denial.
A real 'hunting' system really wouldn't need content denial to be thrilling. It would, however, require a good bit more work out of the Development team.
A dedicated Linkshell for hunts could easily monopolize the hunt content right now, from Ranks B until S. All they would need is good communication.
That said, I also take issue with the idea of saying it has to be randomly spawned to consist of having the 'thrill of a hunt'. Honestly, none of the monsters in the open game exhibit the typical behaviors noted in hunting in real life or in other games - Tracking, Luring, Chasing and Trapping. For lesser prey there could be the thrill of the chase, where for greater prey you might have to act as the bait yourself to pull it out of an area where it would be too powerful to handle. The typical world boss behavior has little to nothing to do with actual 'hunting'. The concept of actually hunting down and cornering a vicious beast.
The closest we got is Leves, and they are highly scripted and easy.
In contrast to this sort of concept, I find the NM 'hunting' concept to be fairly devoid of any real thrill, just tension and disappointment. You just hope you and/or your party gets to the monster before it's killed and you get no credit for it. It's its own thing and some people may enjoy it, but I never found it to be a truly satisfying concept overall. Not when it leads to content denial.
A real 'hunting' system really wouldn't need content denial to be thrilling. It would, however, require a good bit more work out of the Development team.
Thayos wrote:
I did my daily hunt, but I'm going to treat elite marks the same way I did in XI... I'm rarely going to seek them out.
That's my take on it as well. I'm happy to see NMs in the game and I'm happy not participate. I never liked NM camping but a lot of people do, so good for them. I'll just sit this one out and be totally fine with that.
75 Rabbit/75 Sheep/75 Coeurl/75 Eft/75 Raptor/75 Hippogryph/75 Puk
75 Scorpion/75 Wamoura/75 Pixie/75 Peiste/64 Sabotender
51 Bird/41 Mandragora/40 Bee/37 Crawler/37 Bat
Items no one cares about: O
Missions no one cares about: O
Crafts no one cares about: O
75 Scorpion/75 Wamoura/75 Pixie/75 Peiste/64 Sabotender
51 Bird/41 Mandragora/40 Bee/37 Crawler/37 Bat
Items no one cares about: O
Missions no one cares about: O
Crafts no one cares about: O
I've been gone for a while, so someone please inform me what value comes from elite marks? I checked the gear, and none of it is comparable to what I'm using now. Is it something else?
Lollerfell wrote:
I've been gone for a while, so someone please inform me what value comes from elite marks? I checked the gear, and none of it is comparable to what I'm using now. Is it something else?
The seals can be traded for items that can be traded for Oils of Time and Sands of Time, which are used to turn i100 weathered gear into it's i110 form.
Before i went to bed for the night i joined a Hunt Linkshell.
The chatter basicly went like:
[01:22:30] Linkshell person #1 > Hunt Monster "Insert Name here" Spotted, Lower Limsa (X by Y) «Full Attack!»
You start teleporting to Lower Limsa.
[01:22:33] Linkshell person #1 >Dead...
[01:27:51] Linkshell person #1 > Hunt Monster "Insert Name here" Spotted, Eastern Ronfaure (X by Y) «Full Attack!»
You click on the teleport icon and have the list open...
[01:27:58] Linkshell person #1 > Aaaaand dead.
[01:28:04] Linkshell person #2 > FFS...
It continued for that like an hour before i gave up.
The chatter basicly went like:
[01:22:30] Linkshell person #1 > Hunt Monster "Insert Name here" Spotted, Lower Limsa (X by Y) «Full Attack!»
You start teleporting to Lower Limsa.
[01:22:33] Linkshell person #1 >Dead...
[01:27:51] Linkshell person #1 > Hunt Monster "Insert Name here" Spotted, Eastern Ronfaure (X by Y) «Full Attack!»
You click on the teleport icon and have the list open...
[01:27:58] Linkshell person #1 > Aaaaand dead.
[01:28:04] Linkshell person #2 > FFS...
It continued for that like an hour before i gave up.
[XI] Surivere of Valefor
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
As I said earlier, the optimal way to hunt these would be in a party of people you know, with everyone in the same zone. Try to gather your friends and kill before others show up, ensuring your group gets credit.
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
KojiroSoma wrote:
Before i went to bed for the night i joined a Hunt Linkshell.
The chatter basicly went like:
[01:22:30] Linkshell person #1 > Hunt Monster "Insert Name here" Spotted, Lower Limsa (X by Y) «Full Attack!»
You start teleporting to Lower Limsa.
[01:22:33] Linkshell person #1 >Dead...
[01:27:51] Linkshell person #1 > Hunt Monster "Insert Name here" Spotted, Eastern Ronfaure (X by Y) «Full Attack!»
You click on the teleport icon and have the list open...
[01:27:58] Linkshell person #1 > Aaaaand dead.
[01:28:04] Linkshell person #2 > FFS...
It continued for that like an hour before i gave up.
The chatter basicly went like:
[01:22:30] Linkshell person #1 > Hunt Monster "Insert Name here" Spotted, Lower Limsa (X by Y) «Full Attack!»
You start teleporting to Lower Limsa.
[01:22:33] Linkshell person #1 >Dead...
[01:27:51] Linkshell person #1 > Hunt Monster "Insert Name here" Spotted, Eastern Ronfaure (X by Y) «Full Attack!»
You click on the teleport icon and have the list open...
[01:27:58] Linkshell person #1 > Aaaaand dead.
[01:28:04] Linkshell person #2 > FFS...
It continued for that like an hour before i gave up.
Pretty much my experience too. For those that are persistent, the rewards add up. Pretty much eliminates the need to do dungeons.
Raylo wrote:
Lollerfell wrote:
I've been gone for a while, so someone please inform me what value comes from elite marks? I checked the gear, and none of it is comparable to what I'm using now. Is it something else?
The seals can be traded for items that can be traded for Oils of Time and Sands of Time, which are used to turn i100 weathered gear into it's i110 form.
Where do you do this? I thought you could make the upgrade from Rowena, but she has no option to do that.
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