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Why do people run when they get hit?Follow

#1 Aug 27 2014 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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So.....I've got another healer story, lol.

I Q'd up today as CNJ and got Copperbell Mines (yay something OTHER than Tamtara or Ifrit!). First thing, tank is moving erratically and being slow to pull the first trash group and they seem a bit... lack-luster at holding aggro (first heal, 2 of the 3 mobs on me). After the pull, they go "sorry I messed up my thumb, I'm a bit gimped"

I'm like "its np, I don't care as long as nobody dies".

We had a PGL and a BRD, though I think the BRD was somewhat low-level (probably barely 30 or some-such, no fancy armor or harp-bow) and the PGL wasn't Level Sync'd (neither was the GLA), and I've a feeling their gear was a bit lack-luster; DPS was a bit lacking. The BRD nearly DC'd several times in the dungeon, he kept getting the pink "Disconnect" symbol by his name every 3-4 pulls. Thankfully, not while we were fighting the bosses, lol.

Anyways, other than the tank and PGL dying to a bomb blast halfway through the dungeon (first time I ever had to Raise somebody!), nothing bad really happened.

Then we get to the last boss and everything is going according to plan, until I hear that "DING! You have aggro!" sound and I see 5 or so red arrows zipping into me. That can only mean one thing: the adds are here and ready to rock. I look up at the boss's HP:

........he has 30% left.

Oh this is gonna be fun. "Gimped" (by his/her own words) GLA barely holding aggro on the boss (BRD pulled it off them a couple times in the fight), a PGL doing sub-par DPS.

Cr*p hits the fan in about..... 5 seconds. We're all starting to take damage, aggro is flying around, I've got 2-3 of the giants on me, the "gimped" tank is blowing all of his MP into Flash and while he's doing that, BRD ends up with the boss and he.....

........starts running around the room like a chicken with his head cut off. The PGL and GLA are staying mostly still, just trying to dodge the ground slams and my Medica is working really nice. Got really lucky, only got interrupted once or twice. The BRD? He nearly dies several times becuase he won't stay put, PGL is losing out on DPS because they have to keep chasing the boss around the room. I'm having to resort to Cures on the BRD and Medica on the rest of us because he won't stay put. Tank has a bad thumb and is probably getting "Out of Range" errors because he's having trouble chasing the boss AND using abilities on it at the same time.

We did manage to kill him with no deaths (I was like 30% MP left), thankfully...

But seriously. The BRD made things a LOT worse by running around. If he woulda just stayed put, the tank would have had an easier time getting the boss off him and my Medicas would have reached him; I wouldn't had to have devoted casts just for him.

Edited, Aug 27th 2014 9:37pm by Lyrailis
#2 Aug 27 2014 at 11:57 PM Rating: Good
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I can't speak for every player that just takes off, but in the case of the BRD, he was probably kiting the boss. I've seen lots of BRDs do that with mobs they've pulled. I've seen a few win boss fights that when everyone else is dead.

ARC/BRDs have the distinct advantage of being able to 'run & gun' as it were. Unlike casters who have to stop to cast, or melee DPS/tanks, who have to be up close and personal, a ARC/BRD can just circle a mob and wear them down. If they're any good at it, they can use their regular rotations on the move and barely lose any DPS at all.
#3 Aug 28 2014 at 6:53 AM Rating: Excellent
That's one of the bad habits bards learn in levels 1-15 solo that needs to be corrected in the first few dungeons. Yeah, they can kite, but if the tank is alive, it's way better to pass the hate along to the tank and resume hitting it from far away.
#4 Aug 28 2014 at 6:53 AM Rating: Decent
That's one of the bad habits bards learn in levels 1-15 solo that needs to be corrected in the first few dungeons. Yeah, they can kite, but if the tank is alive, it's way better to pass the hate along to the tank and resume hitting it from far away.
#5 Aug 28 2014 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
That's one of the bad habits bards learn in levels 1-15 solo that needs to be corrected in the first few dungeons. Yeah, they can kite, but if the tank is alive, it's way better to pass the hate along to the tank and resume hitting it from far away.



I agree and I see bards doing this allot..
As a whm you learn when you get hate run to the tank not away..
Bards when they have to solo do allot of kiting and sometimes when they get hate their first reaction is too run.
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#6 Aug 28 2014 at 7:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's definitely circumstantial. If the tank is dead, the brd should absolutely kite since they are the only ones that can do continual damage on the move while avoiding as much damage as possible. If the tank is alive though, there is almost no situation where I'd want a brd to do this. Even if they aren't taking any damage, they are limiting any other melee's ability to DPS effectively, thus lengthening the fight and leaving more room for something to go wrong.

Many brds I saw would just freak out though the second they got hit and take off. In reality, all they need to do is run towards the tank, pop quelling strikes, or even just give the tank a couple seconds to grab hate back. It's just a knee-jerk reaction from a lot and hopefully someone points out to them what they are doing wrong.
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#7 Aug 28 2014 at 7:34 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
It's definitely circumstantial. If the tank is dead, the brd should absolutely kite since they are the only ones that can do continual damage on the move while avoiding as much damage as possible. If the tank is alive though, there is almost no situation where I'd want a brd to do this. Even if they aren't taking any damage, they are limiting any other melee's ability to DPS effectively, thus lengthening the fight and leaving more room for something to go wrong.

Many brds I saw would just freak out though the second they got hit and take off. In reality, all they need to do is run towards the tank, pop quelling strikes, or even just give the tank a couple seconds to grab hate back. It's just a knee-jerk reaction from a lot and hopefully someone points out to them what they are doing wrong.


Exactly..
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#8 Aug 28 2014 at 8:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Nashred wrote:
BartelX wrote:
It's definitely circumstantial. If the tank is dead, the brd should absolutely kite since they are the only ones that can do continual damage on the move while avoiding as much damage as possible. If the tank is alive though, there is almost no situation where I'd want a brd to do this. Even if they aren't taking any damage, they are limiting any other melee's ability to DPS effectively, thus lengthening the fight and leaving more room for something to go wrong.

Many brds I saw would just freak out though the second they got hit and take off. In reality, all they need to do is run towards the tank, pop quelling strikes, or even just give the tank a couple seconds to grab hate back. It's just a knee-jerk reaction from a lot and hopefully someone points out to them what they are doing wrong.


Exactly..

Sometimes running is the better option. If someone can kite the adds effectively while the rest handles the boss, you're effectively eliminating the amount of damage the adds could put out on the tank or the healer (if the tank is bad). You'll be taking away a fraction of DPS by not having the bard on the boss, but in return you have less healing and damage to worry about. And in between cures there's no rule that states the healer cant contribute a few points of damage either.

It will make the fight a little longer, sure. But there's no point to it when a badly gimped tank goes into the red every round of attacks from everything involved.
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#9 Aug 28 2014 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Update:

More healer fun!

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=307089475

I don't think anything has to be said about this screenshot, lol.

Edited, Aug 28th 2014 6:38pm by Lyrailis
#10 Aug 29 2014 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
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Lyrailis wrote:

But seriously. The BRD made things a LOT worse by running around. If he woulda just stayed put, the tank would have had an easier time getting the boss off him and my Medicas would have reached him; I wouldn't had to have devoted casts just for him.



Sad to say, based on your description, that tank was probably not going to be able to pull hate off the bard if he couldnt do it before then. Flash x2 + the standard aggro combo is essential for maintaining enmity and if the bard pulls a single target boss in a low level dungeon off of the tank who has "established" aggro, that tank was doing it wrong.

A bard is actually one of the classes I would enourage to kite stuff in a circle, even bosses. I would run small circles around the tank in the vicinity of the healer, but sure, even as whm I have kited. Same with blm, I pop sprint and scathe my way to victory. I kited chimera once in cutters with my blm and beat it by myself from 50%. It can be done. The bard was just probably kiting off into the sunset instead of performing a strategic kite, and your tank was ****, based on your description.
#11 Sep 11 2014 at 1:19 AM Rating: Good
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Jjnnyrr wrote:
I can't speak for every player that just takes off, but in the case of the BRD, he was probably kiting the boss. I've seen lots of BRDs do that with mobs they've pulled. I've seen a few win boss fights that when everyone else is dead.

ARC/BRDs have the distinct advantage of being able to 'run & gun' as it were. Unlike casters who have to stop to cast, or melee DPS/tanks, who have to be up close and personal, a ARC/BRD can just circle a mob and wear them down. If they're any good at it, they can use their regular rotations on the move and barely lose any DPS at all.



This, and also you can occasionally LoS the mob(s) when running in a kite circle, due to a lot of them having the same requirements of facing the target to get their abilities off, just as we have.
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