New (and old) discussion topic... hunts!
In ARR, the hunt system was often criticized for being poorly designed and fostering negativity in the community. Players also seemed to hate the fact that they were forced into hunts if they wanted to stay current. With that in mind, many people (myself included) were a little miffed about hunts being implemented again (and so early) as part of Heavensward's progression path.
That said...
Are hunts "fixed" now? There have been two big changes to the system which may or may not have solved the system's previous issues:
1. More A ranks to hunt, increasing the likelihood of getting seals, and:
2. More daily marks to hunt without needing to join the zerg, with a maximum centurion gain of like 115 seals per day (about 1/3 of what's needed for a gear piece upgrade).
Personally, I feel the improved yields from daily marks really negates the "need" to be part of the A-rank zergs.
However, the same old drama still lingers in the zergs, and such negativity isn't good for the game. Also, sticking with daily hunt marks still doesn't hold a candle to spending a couple hours hunting A ranks (as long as you have a nice gaming rig with a speedy SSD drive).
Anyway, what do you guys think? Are hunts "fixed" enough, or do you still see this system as fundamentally broken?
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Hunts... Fixed or Not?Follow
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
It started off fixed. For example in each instance the same hunt can spawn in it. So while yes it could be abused, it actually spread out the workload of players and made it tolerable. The next change is highehr seals and 3 tiers of daily hunts you can do.
Overall it's a bit better but in terms of progression it's a silly filler grind before Alexander. There were no reason not to allow the last dungeons or ex dungeons to drop a currency or token item to upgrade yasha to ashuran.
Overall it's a bit better but in terms of progression it's a silly filler grind before Alexander. There were no reason not to allow the last dungeons or ex dungeons to drop a currency or token item to upgrade yasha to ashuran.
I've always wished they would spawn as roaming NPCs that can spawn an instanced version of the monster for any person or group that clicked the NPC. I mean, it is possible because they have something similar when it comes to quests. You can have this NPC spawn in random spots like they do now and have them linger around for a bit before disappearing. Maybe a 15min window after the first click. I believe it would fix the issues with the current system.
I haven't gotten into hunts yet, but I see the same old shouts already. Someone spots a mob, it gets announced, some ******* from GAF pulls, even though they know people are still incoming. Much ******** ensues. Knowing that there isn't much to do after finishing up the MSQs and side quests, I'm in no hurry to get there.
I really dislike hunts or rather how some parts of the community handles hunts and I am extremely disappointed that the items to upgrade the Law gear is only obtainable via hunt currency...
That said the 3 daily hunt bills and the one weekly one are all normal openworld mobs. At level 53 you can get the first daily bill so I did and I just pick it up and if I see the mob in the zone I am in I kill it.
I've only gotten 80 seals outside of my daily/weekly bills and I already upgraded my weapon and body. I guess it is bearable.
Hunting bill mob locations marked on maps http://imgur.com/a/rves0#0
That said the 3 daily hunt bills and the one weekly one are all normal openworld mobs. At level 53 you can get the first daily bill so I did and I just pick it up and if I see the mob in the zone I am in I kill it.
I've only gotten 80 seals outside of my daily/weekly bills and I already upgraded my weapon and body. I guess it is bearable.
Hunting bill mob locations marked on maps http://imgur.com/a/rves0#0
The hunt is better now than it was because you can effectively gather seals without having to deal with A and S ranks... but I really wish it were not the ONLY avenue for getting these gear upgrade items that are actually pretty necessary at the moment if you want to be doing the EX primals or getting ready for Alexander opening. It makes the hunt mandatory and that's not a good thing.
A and S ranks are still a super toxic environment and making centurio seals necessary to upgrade gear isn't helping.
A and S ranks are still a super toxic environment and making centurio seals necessary to upgrade gear isn't helping.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
I dislike the hunt still, it just bring the worse of people. I'm just going to stick with my daily & weekly hunts and not going to bother with A & S rank hunt.
Hopefully SE will bring more ways to upgrade the law gear...
Hopefully SE will bring more ways to upgrade the law gear...
I liked the idea of open world content, but I'm not a fan of how that was executed in hunts. I remember one of the main problems players had with hunts was that the name didn't fit the activity. It was better described as divide and conquer where players would split up and cover specific areas, while other players would just standby waiting for someone to spot something.
It's been a while since I put XIV through it's paces, but I remember it being more CPU heavy than most other current MMOs. What about hunts specifically is read/write intensive? I ask because it seems like there would be a better alternative here. If an SSD is making the difference between a game mechanic being enjoyable or not then I really don't know what to say. All I got is facepalm.
It's been a while since I put XIV through it's paces, but I remember it being more CPU heavy than most other current MMOs. What about hunts specifically is read/write intensive? I ask because it seems like there would be a better alternative here. If an SSD is making the difference between a game mechanic being enjoyable or not then I really don't know what to say. All I got is facepalm.
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream
HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free
cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
I love open world content, but I am not sure I have seen it work in any game where mobs can't be tagged/claimed. That in itself has issues I am sure many would not like, but I would never touch hunts the way it is in XIV. Partly because zergs are just boring and also because I don't feel like dealing with the drama.
Thayos wrote:
2. More daily marks to hunt without needing to join the zerg, with a maximum centurion gain of like 115 seals per day (about 1/3 of what's needed for a gear piece upgrade).
This is what I am being told which is why I am doing the daily stuff, while I earn Law and level BRD.
Quote:
It's been a while since I put XIV through it's paces, but I remember it being more CPU heavy than most other current MMOs.
It's roughly on par with SWTOR for CPU pressure. HW shifted a lot of the workload to the graphics card where it belongs too.
Quote:
If an SSD is making the difference between a game mechanic being enjoyable or not then I really don't know what to say.
I don't know if it makes the difference between something being enjoyable or not, but an SSD definitely helps with your zone load-in times. When the difference (in hunts anyway) is getting to your party in time to get credit and not getting to your party in time to get credit, anything that assists your zone loading helps.
I personally don't find hunts enjoyable at all. I'll do the daily and weekly hunts because they take like an hour out of my day to do and they're mandatory, but the A/S rank hunts I'm perfectly happy to just leave alone and not deal with that nonsense.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
It's been a while since I put XIV through it's paces, but I remember it being more CPU heavy than most other current MMOs.
It's roughly on par with SWTOR for CPU pressure. HW shifted a lot of the workload to the graphics card where it belongs too.
Quote:
If an SSD is making the difference between a game mechanic being enjoyable or not then I really don't know what to say.
I don't know if it makes the difference between something being enjoyable or not, but an SSD definitely helps with your zone load-in times. When the difference (in hunts anyway) is getting to your party in time to get credit and not getting to your party in time to get credit, anything that assists your zone loading helps.
I personally don't find hunts enjoyable at all. I'll do the daily and weekly hunts because they take like an hour out of my day to do and they're mandatory, but the A/S rank hunts I'm perfectly happy to just leave alone and not deal with that nonsense.
I am not a major fan of hunts, but it's a nice option and some do enjoy them. The daily/weekly help.
As for an SSD, I am resorting to these on upgrading old machines and even my home one - love it. At home though for XIV, to use the max settings with a good FPS I do need to chuck in a more up-to-date graphics card....
Archmage Callinon wrote:
I don't know if it makes the difference between something being enjoyable or not, but an SSD definitely helps with your zone load-in times. When the difference (in hunts anyway) is getting to your party in time to get credit and not getting to your party in time to get credit, anything that assists your zone loading helps.
I keep forgetting that this game was designed to be ported from PC to PS3. While I don't play any MMOs with significant load times, I understand it being a part of XIV because of the consoles. I dunno, I guess I just don't see the point either way. Just the fact that shaving a second or two off of your load time is relevant kinda exposes the design flaw with hunts. It honestly sounds like it's more of a challenge to get to the designated area and tag a mob than it is actually defeating it.
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream
HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free
cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
I feel like SE really missed an opportunity to have hunt marks spawn at the same time across different instances... that, alone, would have made hunts much less frustrating.
They could have given each A rank a shared respawn timer... so say the marks pop at noon in instances 1 and 2, and mark #1 is killed at 12:01, and mark #2 is killed at 12:03. The respawn clock for both would restart at 12:01, keeping the system intact.
And if for some reason nobody killed mark#2, then its timer would simply reset with the spawning of mark#1, and the cycle would begin again.
SE could have even taken this once step further and said you can only kill each specific A rank once per hour, which would prevent people from trying to kill marks twice in mirror instances.
They could have given each A rank a shared respawn timer... so say the marks pop at noon in instances 1 and 2, and mark #1 is killed at 12:01, and mark #2 is killed at 12:03. The respawn clock for both would restart at 12:01, keeping the system intact.
And if for some reason nobody killed mark#2, then its timer would simply reset with the spawning of mark#1, and the cycle would begin again.
SE could have even taken this once step further and said you can only kill each specific A rank once per hour, which would prevent people from trying to kill marks twice in mirror instances.
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
^^
this
Virtual rate up for Thayos. Excellent ideas indeed.
this
Virtual rate up for Thayos. Excellent ideas indeed.
Area instancing is a temporary measure, not a permanent one though. So I doubt they'd push that much effort into it. They're eventually close these instances down, so they wouldn't effect hunting in the long term.
And all that would happen during the timers is that Zergs would decide to hunt one version of the mob, then switch instances and zerg the other, peer pressuring to hold off to kill the second version till the Zerg would get there.
The only way to balance hunts is force pop off of a global cooldown timer, or some other method of 'instancing' the monster itself. No form of Notorious Monster hunting will work on a randomized spawn system. They should have tied them to the Large Scale Temple Leves. It comes with its own forced rarity system as it requires 10 levels to trigger, limiting your ability to press to a maximum of 10 leves in a rush (If you time your leves to run over the reset) Forces participation in fighting the monsters down to 8, so balancing is perfect each time.
And they could do scaling monsters via key items that could be used to push towards S ranking. I'm rather mind-boggled why they didn't do it really, as it would have solved all the problems with hunts right now.
Edited, Jul 1st 2015 6:26pm by Hyrist
And all that would happen during the timers is that Zergs would decide to hunt one version of the mob, then switch instances and zerg the other, peer pressuring to hold off to kill the second version till the Zerg would get there.
The only way to balance hunts is force pop off of a global cooldown timer, or some other method of 'instancing' the monster itself. No form of Notorious Monster hunting will work on a randomized spawn system. They should have tied them to the Large Scale Temple Leves. It comes with its own forced rarity system as it requires 10 levels to trigger, limiting your ability to press to a maximum of 10 leves in a rush (If you time your leves to run over the reset) Forces participation in fighting the monsters down to 8, so balancing is perfect each time.
And they could do scaling monsters via key items that could be used to push towards S ranking. I'm rather mind-boggled why they didn't do it really, as it would have solved all the problems with hunts right now.
Edited, Jul 1st 2015 6:26pm by Hyrist
Thayos wrote:
I feel like SE really missed an opportunity to have hunt marks spawn at the same time across different instances... that, alone, would have made hunts much less frustrating.
They did. Then they "fixed" it so it doesn't anymore because as said, it was abusable (mostly because people who use the guildwork client got pings across multiple instances and can rush to it compared to the person who doesn't use it and wouldn't be the any wiser.)
Quote:
And all that would happen during the timers is that Zergs would decide to hunt one version of the mob, then switch instances and zerg the other, peer pressuring to hold off to kill the second version till the Zerg would get there.
That's why I said players would need to be limited to one kill of each mark per hour, negating the pressure of one mob to be held while the other is killed. Essentially, the zerg would be divided in two, which would relieve pressure.
However, I forgot that instances were temporary... so nvm.
Scaling HPs to S-rank levels would be a really nice step. But then what good would S-ranks be?
I'm really just surprised this content still exists, and that the devs haven't done anything to make it more tolerable.
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
No real need to scale HP, just apply a damage reduction based on people on the mob's threat list. That way, if you're fighting something in the middle of the night with only a couple other people, it doesn't take forever. Plus you don't get the issue like with FATEs where if it was zerged the last time it popped, the repop acts like the zerg is still there. Really just some bad examples of being reactive after the fact instead of during.
Otherwise, I'm still a fan of the instanced hunt concept with pops or methods to track/kill tied to crafting. The free roaming stuff can stay, but letting people chase equivalent content on their own schedule isn't a bad thing. It also facilitates GC cooperation if you get a bunch of people together with pops and what have you.
Otherwise, I'm still a fan of the instanced hunt concept with pops or methods to track/kill tied to crafting. The free roaming stuff can stay, but letting people chase equivalent content on their own schedule isn't a bad thing. It also facilitates GC cooperation if you get a bunch of people together with pops and what have you.
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
Thayos wrote:
I feel like SE really missed an opportunity to have hunt marks spawn at the same time across different instances... that, alone, would have made hunts much less frustrating.
Ideally you want to design content that when finished, makes you say "people will enjoy this content" rather than "people will be less annoyed that they have to participate in this"
SE should be asking themselves "If we removed the rewards players see as mandatory, how would we get them to come back and participate in this content"? Ultimately I think most developers should be designing content with this in consideration. How can I make this content rewarding beyond simply 'do event, collect x amount of tokens, never participate in event again until forced to '.
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream
HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free
cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
I think the yield on the level 1 and 2 hunt bills could be beefed up a bit. Right now their combined yield is less than half of the level 3. I think they should at least be made equivalent. Something like 5/10/15 would work. I do like how the bills give some EXP, it gives me some encouragement to try to fight them on some of my non-60 classes as opposed to just wasting them effortlessly on my PLD.
The zergfests are worse than they ever used to be, from my perspective anyway. To date I've only received full credit on a single A rank. Usually I get minimal.
The zergfests are worse than they ever used to be, from my perspective anyway. To date I've only received full credit on a single A rank. Usually I get minimal.
Yep - When HW was in early access and about the first weekish Hunts were amazing, it was fun to check out the new ones, work together to take out level 60 mobs, no one zerging, everyone is spread out.
Then comes when people find out you need centurio seals to upgrade law gear...it all goes to **** lol. I'm still in the belief there was absolutely nothing to prevent them from making law upgrade dungeon drops or an alternate route in the extremely large allagan theme dungeons.
Then comes when people find out you need centurio seals to upgrade law gear...it all goes to **** lol. I'm still in the belief there was absolutely nothing to prevent them from making law upgrade dungeon drops or an alternate route in the extremely large allagan theme dungeons.
Over the next couple of weeks we'll be seeing Alexander NM gear, Tomestone of Esoteric gear, and Alexander HM gear added to the game. It doesn't look like any of these are going to require any type of enhancement that centurio seals are going to be used for. If that's the case, hunts will die down for the vast majority of the playerbase at that point.
I hate hunts more than anybody, but I'm not stressing out about them at all because I know they're ultimately going to be made pointless again and I'm patient enough to wait it out.
I hate hunts more than anybody, but I'm not stressing out about them at all because I know they're ultimately going to be made pointless again and I'm patient enough to wait it out.
I fully unweathered my Weapon, Body, Head and Accessories doing the occasional A rank and dailies and weekly. So yeah definitely not stressing over it, I got the main pieces I wanted done. Alexander is supposedly to be i170, so honestly it was just a holdover measure due to lack of initial 'end-game' content.
The more I've played, the better I feel about hunts.
I still can't believe they're so important to the game... but the beefing up of daily hunts really takes the stress off. Hopefully, seals gained from A ranks/dailies continue to scale with newer rewards down the road.
I still can't believe they're so important to the game... but the beefing up of daily hunts really takes the stress off. Hopefully, seals gained from A ranks/dailies continue to scale with newer rewards down the road.
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
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