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Do you think FFXIV will bring back old school endgame?Follow

#27 Aug 09 2015 at 7:48 AM Rating: Good
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MMOs are becoming MmOs. Not sure if it's the developers or players mentality(probably both), but the experience these days suffers for it. It genuinely feels like a single player experience with the occasional co-op. I get that people who don't have time to make friends want something to do, but the solution to that should have been a tactful way of saying 'find something else'.

There is almost no incentive to seek out other people to team up with for adventure and events and eventually form a bond with. Almost anything you want to do can be accomplished by clicking a button and going afk until you're summoned to some instance with random people.

As for XI and HNMs, keep in mind that this portion of the game was for the minority. I led an HNM shell for quite a while and I assure you that out of hundreds of linkshells on any given server, you wouldn't see more than a dozen or so showing up to kill kings. I think that even if open world content were available in XIV(and assuming that it was more difficult than most other content as HNM was in it's time), not enough people would participate.

Personal opinions aside, I just don't think it's viable right now. Yoshi and co are content to develop toward their much larger and much more casual player base. While I would probably participate in HNM if it were available, I can't rationalize the devs spending any time on it since it would again be content for the vast minority of the players.

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#28 Aug 09 2015 at 8:48 AM Rating: Excellent
Even XI changed its HNM structure from "monster pops, first LS that claims it gets it" to "you need to build a pop set by doing BCNMs and then you can pop the boss and get a chance at winning the pop for a mega boss."

The latter allowed for a much more broad form of participation among casual shells. We finished a lot of black belts after that adjustment was made.
#29 Aug 09 2015 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
Even XI changed its HNM structure from "monster pops, first LS that claims it gets it" to "you need to build a pop set by doing BCNMs and then you can pop the boss and get a chance at winning the pop for a mega boss."

The latter allowed for a much more broad form of participation among casual shells. We finished a lot of black belts after that adjustment was made.


Exactly, and despite people saying: "This is 2015, soandso doesn't work or isn't acceptable for modern MMOs blahblah" always seem to reference something that hasn't been true or long has since changed when XI gets referenced.

Like..they've moved toward pop systems for stuff as early as late CoP and became basically standard post Treasures/Wings. There were still timed pops but like people love to say with FFXIV:

"That's only for a small % of players."

So I mean, in the same logic, if stuff like Savage and Final Coil and so on are for "small % of people" and they still implement it.....then well.....

But yeah, XIV honestly can't support a different format type without risk of the server collapsing on itself it seems, so honestly, I'd be happy if they got rid of hunts and actually looked toward their other successful FF MMO because I don't know what game started it, but "open world" doesn't immediately and only mean "24-9001hr timed spawn boss."

It's why I had hopes when yoshi said: "hamlets still exist and will return in ARR" that they touched up and improved the (actually fun) hamlet defense from 1.0. I mean..crafters/gatherers/DoW/DoM working together ...in content?
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#30 Aug 09 2015 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
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It comes as no surprise that the same tune is being said by the same people.

People who were not happy with 2.0's system is not happy that there were no changes, and they're enttitled to that opinion. However, there are many who did not want to boat rocked hard and they're enjoying the content that they have. We need to keep that in mind.

That said, I'm more than in support of something new. I want it as well. I think the strongest feedback Yoshida could take away is: You got a foundation, don't be afraid to experiment. What little they did new felt good. And I'd like them to make strides rather than crawling baby-steps. Then again, everything seems to run in a cycle with this game. If we're to anticipate new content, it'll likely show up mid 3.1 to mid 3.2. And we did get a new PvP mode, which, honestly I've been enjoying, save for the major problem I had with PvP before, which is the Grand Company restriction.

Possibly why I don't burn out on the Experts as much is because I spatter it with Frontlines Roulette.
#31 Aug 09 2015 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyrist wrote:
Possibly why I don't burn out on the Experts as much is because I spatter it with Frontlines Roulette.


This is one of my biggest problems speaking of Expert - One of the best dungeons in the game..is virtually worthless to the game after you finish the story. Yes it's a bit long but it actually felt like work was put into it and actually had a good atmosphere to it and had a sense of progression to it, it didn't feel like it was just thrown in for the sake of "hey, do this for your tomes for the day." So it gets painfully boring and pretty much why I feel they honestly just repeated 2.0 without wavering when they had the perfect opportunity to do a lot more than "the same" because not even 2.x dungeons had that sense of progression or depth to it.
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#32 Aug 09 2015 at 9:43 AM Rating: Default
Theonehio wrote:
So while 2006 is still technically old school by today's standards, I could definitely see systems like ZNM/Voidwatch/Walk of Echos (this is technically open world) working for sure in terms of content, but in implementation? The fact the servers would die if they so much as gave everyone a few more inventory spaces means the game itself can't actually handle any shift in content format at all.


D*mn. You honestly think the servers are the limiting factor in shifting the content format? The endgame isn't designed the way it is by coincidence.

The inventory space comment just makes me imagine how you seriously might think FFXI was better in this regard. Lord have mercy.

Edited, Aug 9th 2015 3:44pm by Hyanmen
#33 Aug 09 2015 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
So while 2006 is still technically old school by today's standards, I could definitely see systems like ZNM/Voidwatch/Walk of Echos (this is technically open world) working for sure in terms of content, but in implementation? The fact the servers would die if they so much as gave everyone a few more inventory spaces means the game itself can't actually handle any shift in content format at all.


D*mn. You honestly think the servers are the limiting factor in shifting the content format? The endgame isn't designed the way it is by coincidence.

The inventory space comment just makes me imagine how you seriously might think FFXI was better in this regard. Lord have mercy.

Edited, Aug 9th 2015 3:44pm by Hyanmen


Unfortunately for you, Yoshida himself said the servers are prone to crashing if they actually increase our inventory space, hence him basically pushing towards working on retainer based systems.

Obviously it could be a cash grab, but I give the benefit of the doubt because of actually working in the field.

Quote:
Q71. After 3.0 launched, my inventory and Armoury have been super full. Do you plan on adding more inventory space?

A71. I understand everyone’s request, but since additional inventory space would increase the data transmitted, there is a risk for server crashes, so this isn’t something we can do right away. We’re optimizing aspects with every patch, so we will continue to look into this for the future. Until then, we would like to add a feature that stores and retrieves whole gear sets to and from retainers, and make other quality-of-life changes to retainers.


https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/3cswmu/formatted_live_letter_q_a/

So yeah, unless you're being sarcastic, the servers are a factor in content design as well.

Edited, Aug 9th 2015 8:59am by Theonehio
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#34 Aug 09 2015 at 10:15 AM Rating: Decent
Theonehio wrote:
Unfortunately for you, Yoshida himself said the servers are prone to crashing if they actually increase our inventory space, hence him basically pushing towards working on retainer based systems.

Obviously it could be a cash grab, but I give the benefit of the doubt because of actually working in the field.

Quote:
Q71. After 3.0 launched, my inventory and Armoury have been super full. Do you plan on adding more inventory space?

A71. I understand everyone’s request, but since additional inventory space would increase the data transmitted, there is a risk for server crashes, so this isn’t something we can do right away. We’re optimizing aspects with every patch, so we will continue to look into this for the future. Until then, we would like to add a feature that stores and retrieves whole gear sets to and from retainers, and make other quality-of-life changes to retainers.


https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/3cswmu/formatted_live_letter_q_a/

So yeah, unless you're being sarcastic, the servers are a factor in content design as well.


Did I ever claim anything else? It's not surprising; 350+ immediately accessible inventory space would make any MMO struggle. FFXI could have only dreamed of so much inventory space.

How does inventory space concerns limit the content format is beyond me though.
#35 Aug 09 2015 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
Possibly why I don't burn out on the Experts as much is because I spatter it with Frontlines Roulette.


This is one of my biggest problems speaking of Expert - One of the best dungeons in the game..is virtually worthless to the game after you finish the story. Yes it's a bit long but it actually felt like work was put into it and actually had a good atmosphere to it and had a sense of progression to it, it didn't feel like it was just thrown in for the sake of "hey, do this for your tomes for the day." So it gets painfully boring and pretty much why I feel they honestly just repeated 2.0 without wavering when they had the perfect opportunity to do a lot more than "the same" because not even 2.x dungeons had that sense of progression or depth to it.


I would love to see that dungeon added to the Roulette for daily. That dungeon and Fractals are my favorite two dungeons of the expansion thus far.

Anyways, from what I've been watching of the people's complaints though. They're of the mind that new dungeons aren't valid as new content because they follow the same system. I disagree because I know the work involved in them and I take every fight on its own merit. So if the fights differ enough, then it feels like new content to me.

I take a very Megaman approach to it. Sure, it's the same format as the last x number of Megaman games, but the runs feel different as far as the fights go. And that's enough for me. But that is a personal opinion - I expect them to please more than just my sentiments.

I do like the PvP additions as well.

But I do hope that sometime soon we get a new system to play with, if for no other reason than to appeal to different tastes than my own. I don't mind the progression we have now. The fights are engaging and easy to get into. I'd be interested in some new types of content, for certain, but I have no qualms against the current content that I have to refine my own skills on. (I actually like that, as a Dragoon, I can actually take refining my execution on this stuff seriously and that does carry some of the 'new content' burden for me.)

#36 Aug 09 2015 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:


Duo has followed the game closely enough to make the same conclusion and raises the matter in defiance of that.

As far as sparking discussions. There are several far better ones to raise that nobody cares enough to discuss. Lore, Rotations, Job comparisons, Guides, Screenshots/Silly, referential discussions of other parts of the community. All of these could be done but are not - likely due to burnout on all these argumentative threads created. "Anything is better than nothing" is poor logic to be making when arguing in benefit to spark discussion.

Edited, Aug 9th 2015 1:20am by Hyrist


People change their mind all the time and the community showing the developers what some people are thinking is never a bad thing. Many were expecting 3.0 to take the game forward in terms of content, but rather than developing, it actually went backwards to 2.0. With that you are bound to have the people who have been waiting for more once again show where they stand. Will it change the stance of the developers? Maybe it already has to some extent and maybe it never will, regardless though it does not have to change the minds of anyone, because there are a lot of people who actually like discussing the question even if it never amounts to anything.

You not liking Duo or at least what he posts is nothing new, if you don't like it stay out of his threads. Your attitude of thinking you know what is better to discuss just shows how arrogant you are and honestly it is getting a lot more tiresome than Duos threads. Actually I think I will take my own advice and just put you on ignore.
#37 Aug 09 2015 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
Server upgrades won't be in the cards until sometime next year, most likely. This year's hardware budget is pretty much going to the EU data center so that people in Germany aren't trying to play off a server in Montreal. Last year's hardware budget was pulled early to buy new equipment after 2.0's launch went a little too well.

SE's budget runs March to March, so I frankly won't expect any serious infrastructure improvements until 3.x's patches are done next year.

XIV doesn't have to pay off investors, but they DO have to feed most of their profits to the parent company, who then re-apportions whatever crumbs they feel like giving to the XIV team to keep the game running. SE is very happy with their golden child Yoshi P at the moment, but he still has to play by the rules the company set forth. Which means a fixed hardware budget.
#38 Aug 09 2015 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Belcrono wrote:
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You not liking Duo or at least what he posts is nothing new, if you don't like it stay out of his threads. Your attitude of thinking you know what is better to discuss just shows how arrogant you are and honestly it is getting a lot more tiresome than Duos threads. Actually I think I will take my own advice and just put you on ignore.



As you were the one who engaged me, perhaps you should follow your own advice and not engage in the thread. You're over-defensiveness in this situation is showing. Duo's more than capable of retorting his points and emphasizing them, and to his credit he's been progressing in that department. We even agree on the ideal, even though we heavily disagree on the realistic on our desires. I'd love to be proven wrong on this matter. In fact, I hope to be. The game needs something to feel more vibrant within the world itself. But its track record of trying to crate open-world content has been abysmal. I'm uncertain as to my perspective of what Semi-instanced will do. We seem to have a very progress-focused player base and if it's not current, it may fall flat.

I have nothing personal against Duo as an individual, which is where you seem to be making the mistake. I have a problem against the repeated behaviors of pointing out every possible flaw angle and discussing it ad nasuem - and it is ad nasuem as the discussion has not changed course in two years. So I'm calling it out. Two years have passed, the situation has not changed. There are better things to talk about - why aren't we talking about them? It's a fair question.

I can only theorize that we as a community thrive on conflict, which seems to be what your'e attempting with me. Except now that you're finding no headway you resort to the ignore function. Just a tip: I've been there. It doesn't work nearly as effectively as you may wish it would.

As far as this gem:

Quote:
People change their mind all the time and the community showing the developers what some people are thinking is never a bad thing.


You'll have to cite where people have changed there mind or bite the bullet on this one, people seem to be saying the same stances they have two years ago. Sure, theoretically, people could change their mind. Also, the oceans could theoretically boil over and annihilate life as we know it on earth. If you're going to make a claim on that level, however, be sure to bring evidence to the table. Right now, the self-evident prospect is no, nothing's changed. That's part of the problem.

However, I contest that we did not go 'backwards' to 2.0, though I can see how that perspective would be had. Though I heavily disagree with the logic vein that results in it - again that perspective that anything that is not endgame progress is suddenly invalid content. Hunts have been updated, Treasure Hunts have been updated, neither existed in 2.0. PvP has a new mode that seems to have renewed its popularity, albeit likely temporary. It also assist in the daily progress climb, I cap my Esoterics at a faster rate using it, and the Glamour/PvP gear doesn't look bad.

The 'current' content has all been refined in terms of execution and loot distribution. We have a far better gear curve now then when 2.0 was out. The extremes require finer DPS checks and dodge focus. And Alexander Savage hasn't been cleared, but not because of a glitch that failed to be patched forever, but because it literally has a harder gear check than before.

All of these seem to be refinements above 2.0. However, Hio is correct, systematically, we have not added any new systems - and that is what people want. Even I want that.

However, this conversation is no different than the course of discussion that has occurred over the last two years. Over those two years, we got Hunts, Ventures, and Treasure Hunts. All of these have been updated since and are maintained. Now we have Airship ventures which, according to older interviews are not yet fully realized.

My perspective of this is that all the pieces are set for them to start releasing new content as 3.xx progresses. However, if it is not relevant to endgame, it will be dismissed the same way PvP, Hunts and Treasure Hunts have been. The vocal aspect of the player base seemed to be very narrowly focused on the idea of more progression content, and I feel as if in that field, I don't find it to be realistic to expect a completely alternative form of progression.

If anything, that perspective has changed since two years ago, when I pushed for it hard. After that long, I've come to realize that SE wants to push forward a single progression narrative in order to keep the 'current' endgame populated. The desire is still there, but the expectation of it has been quashed. The backbone of the game we have will likely not fundamentally change. You're free to disagree, but further discussion this, here, I find to be pointless.

Why?

Zam has long since stopped being a place were SE's eyes wander for feedback. The only thing anyone could find here is vindication or debate. And there are plenty of more in depth discussions that could be had here than the same-old topics.

Kind of funny really. People are arguing for new content, and here I'm arguing for new discussions.
#39 Aug 10 2015 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Keysofgaruda wrote:
Thayos wrote:
No, I do not want FFXI to be ninja'd into FFXIV.

FFXI is still there, though! And you can try Wildstar (f2p now) for that kind of hardcore experience.


ok this really needs to end now.

FFXI is NOT still there. anyone, and everyone, who talks about FFXI, is talking about the level 75 era. I don't like what they have done since then, and neither do most people, which is why that game is dead, and why square is halting progress on it at the end of the year.

We will gladly go play ffxi again...if you people would build us a god **** time machine so we can go back in time and play ff11 before it got "modernized" into garbage.


FFXIV was kinda ninja'd into FFXI with ilevels. But really it was Abyssea that marked the end of everything we've come to know about FFXI 75 era.
#40 Aug 10 2015 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
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It's also been no secret that during WotG era and on they used XI as a test bed for FFXIV. It's actually fairly common for companies to do that runs multiple MMOs.
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#41 Aug 12 2015 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
More inventory? I'll settle for a fishing tackle box.
#42 Aug 12 2015 at 1:34 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
My perspective of this is that all the pieces are set for them to start releasing new content as 3.xx progresses. However, if it is not relevant to endgame, it will be dismissed the same way PvP, Hunts and Treasure Hunts have been. The vocal aspect of the player base seemed to be very narrowly focused on the idea of more progression content, and I feel as if in that field, I don't find it to be realistic to expect a completely alternative form of progression.


The golden goose, right here.

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#43 Aug 12 2015 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah. The reality in today's world is that whatever is best and most efficient is "the right way" and everything else may as well not exist. Just look at hunts. 6 weeks ago they were the thing. The only thing. The drama revolving around them was incredible. Flash forward to today and A ranks sometimes just sit there untouched for ages.
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#44 Aug 13 2015 at 3:16 AM Rating: Decent
Belcrono wrote:

I think most people quit when the game isn't for them, but that doesn't mean the game is necessarily a perfect fit for everyone that decides to stick around. This is even more true when the game might not go in the direction they thought it would or moves too slowly in that direction.


Most people do, some actually stick around to whine about it and complain about all the new content. Mugs for them though because they are paying for something they clearly don’t enjoy.

Keysofgaruda wrote:

ok this really needs to end now.
FFXI is NOT still there. anyone, and everyone, who talks about FFXI, is talking about the level 75 era. I don't like what they have done since then, and neither do most people, which is why that game is dead, and why square is halting progress on it at the end of the year.
We will gladly go play ffxi again...if you people would build us a god **** time machine so we can go back in time and play ff11 before it got "modernized" into garbage.


The popularity of XI arguably improved after the release of 99, there was a severe influx of returning players. Although there is no denying that there was a small influx of quitters but this was also a period when XIV had been announced and people were happy to quit and wait for that. I know a few that did quit specifically just for XIV not because of the 99 content. The 75 era as you call it, was certainly the consistent era where people were not quitting (instead they would take extended breaks) if that’s what you mean. I know some people that were furious over the 99 (strangely enough these were the ones that did relics or something close) yet again I knew plenty of returning players who had previously quit.

Transmigration wrote:
I think open world bosses are really ****** cool and would love to have them return. Unfortunately the response would be a thousand "No thanks. I don't want to camp Nidhogg again at 3am." or "This isn't FFXI man, get over it."
I think people are against anything they don't want to do if there is something to gain from it. They want to be able to obtain EVERYTHING that anyone else can, but only on their terms. The thing is, they don't have to do it and they don't have to have every item in the game. They're narcissists though (most people are these days), so they will never gain the perspective to see it from any other point of view. Prestige and exclusivity are unfortunately no longer valued in today's mainstream gaming culture.


Correction, it’s because the game isn’t built for that purpose. SE took the flaws of XI (most of them) and got rid, they didn’t want to create a monopoly system. With Fates, it’s easy for everyone to share the spoils and if you back to open world NMs/HNM what do you do about lotting? Is it reverting to XI’s ridiculous system of LS’s fighting over an NM? As I’ve mentioned before I don’t mind them doing this as an “OPTION” but what I don’t want is XI style where you had to do it for certain pieces otherwise you would miss out. Something XIV is doing right is I don’t feel like I am missing out because I play an average of 4/5 hours (okay sometimes all evening) a day instead of all day every day (I work , I have a other half etc). It’s also why I can’t do a static.
And no I didn’t enjoy camping HNMs, spending ages fighting over one mob and do not get me started on “Spawn time Window between X and XX hours”……… okay I will just sit here for a couple of hours and pray it pops…… and let me remember the sleepless nights where I would set my alarm when the pop time was coming…. Plus think about the 1% drop rate………..

SE can by all means add a few NMs like this, make the drops as minions so the rest of us who are not fussed won’t make any effort at all for them. Will they be popular? I will be surprised. There will always be that one or two players who stand around showing off their rare item but that’s not me.

Also as mentioned before we already have hunts/treasure/fates.

Theonehio wrote:
Being blunt:
This is 2 years later in XIV ARR, this is ignoring the 3 years of XIV 1.x. - XIV is nothing but gear grinding and what proves this is:


I don’t agree – being blunt back.

Nothing was mass populated in XI yet you talk as if it did it well? There were three areas always populated in XI (Alz/Jeuno) take your pick of the major city and <insert popular HNM> plus the popular EXP spots – that’s it. You mention the Gold Saucer as being quiet, most areas in XI were relatively quiet so what’s your point. You are comparing a game that had many years behind it and plenty of expansion packs. Not forgetting they forced you to take your time on the story – insert random wait game day/RL day and of course no DF to progress. Shall we get started on the “Gathering” get to point A with a group of people who can’t avoid agro and die…

The only thing you have correct is there isn’t really a choice of gear. It’s primarily based on iLVL. Would be nice if we had multiple choices of the type of gear we get from ESO as e.g. a healer. Perhaps I want more MP stats on the entire set instead of worrying about Det/Crit. That’s the only thing really missing. If SE added that would that fix your issue? Probably not.

You say it’s all about gear, yet I know plenty of people who spend ages earning mounts, minions and glamour items – something that has zero beneficial status at all. There are achievements too (something I enjoy working on).

I completely disagree on everything just being about Alex/Tomb spam – if that’s how you play the game I guess you are not enjoying it at all? And considering there is a weekly limit on all that too, you must get bored after one night? Because it doesn’t take long to cap the weekly drops and weekly tombs.

My average week and I class my self as an average player:
Alex drops weekly
Tombs weekly
Exp for another job to 60 (currently SMN, will be my 5th when it gets 60)
Working on a crafting job (currently Fish)
Logs
Dailies (including gold saucer)
TT (Tournament and getting cards because I still don’t have them all)

Looking at XI – my weekly usually involved in half as much as the above if I was lucky.
Events were the only thing I ever did that was enjoyable and again there were limits on how much of them we could do every week. Required gathering time and hoping for full attendance…

Theonehio wrote:

Obviously it could be a cash grab, but I give the benefit of the doubt because of actually working in the field.
So yeah, unless you're being sarcastic, the servers are a factor in content design as well.

Although again I see the point you are making, you are not the only one that works in that kind of field (assuming IT). One of my responsibilities is user data and yes the capacity does make a difference but not that kind of a major difference.
If their servers truly crash as a result of it more data, I would severely question their technical team and their server capacity.

It’s garb – I use it all the time. We have an availability of 40-50% on our system (won’t go in to details) but we never pass to users that they can use another 20-30%% before I would raise an eye brow. Instead we push to keep users from maxing out their data by keeping it minimal. We could easily increase capacity of that server with a bit of funding, as for data transmitted assuming their servers would be on a better networking than ours – this wouldn’t be an issue.

The fact they allow additional retainers for a cost says it all. As we keep comparing XI, they added a lot more as time went by because the demand was high. Even though they constantly told us it wasn’t easy due to “Server complications”……

If you really are from the “field” you wouldn’t give them the benefit of the doubt because you would have used similar words your self. The average user is clueless (sad but true).
#45 Aug 13 2015 at 4:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Lonix wrote:
My average week and I class my self as an average player:
Alex drops weekly
Tombs weekly
Exp for another job to 60 (currently SMN, will be my 5th when it gets 60)
Working on a crafting job (currently Fish)
Logs
Dailies (including gold saucer)
TT (Tournament and getting cards because I still don’t have them all)

Looking at XI – my weekly usually involved in half as much as the above if I was lucky.


I guess it just depended on what you wanted to do. Some of the things I did would probably be considered content well beyond it's shelf life, but they were still things I enjoyed doing. I consider myself a bit picky in that regard, but I still felt like I had more to do(even regardless of whether or not I enjoyed doing it) in FFXI.

Probably the biggest factor in all of this was the concept that gear and achievements you progressed toward were expected to take a while. It's ironic to me that XIV's current philosophy is for casual players, but it almost seems those players would be more comfortable in a slower paced update cycle. You don't need fresh content every 3 months because you're not blazing through it so fast that it's boring after 6-8 weeks.

In XI you were limited in how much you could participate in many things, but there were so many more things to do that if you enjoyed enough of them you could stay busy. Maybe I just have more patience than today's average gamer, but I feel like it was viable variety that kept me from getting burned out on that game.




Edited, Aug 13th 2015 6:10am by FilthMcNasty
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#46 Aug 13 2015 at 7:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Lonix wrote:
Although again I see the point you are making, you are not the only one that works in that kind of field (assuming IT). One of my responsibilities is user data and yes the capacity does make a difference but not that kind of a major difference.
If their servers truly crash as a result of it more data, I would severely question their technical team and their server capacity.

It’s garb – I use it all the time. We have an availability of 40-50% on our system (won’t go in to details) but we never pass to users that they can use another 20-30%% before I would raise an eye brow. Instead we push to keep users from maxing out their data by keeping it minimal. We could easily increase capacity of that server with a bit of funding, as for data transmitted assuming their servers would be on a better networking than ours – this wouldn’t be an issue.

The fact they allow additional retainers for a cost says it all. As we keep comparing XI, they added a lot more as time went by because the demand was high. Even though they constantly told us it wasn’t easy due to “Server complications”……

If you really are from the “field” you wouldn’t give them the benefit of the doubt because you would have used similar words your self. The average user is clueless (sad but true).


This is the main reason I say I give them the benefit of the doubt purely because I know they more than likely cut so many corners in ARR's production, so I seriously don't doubt the server architecture and team are just so..thrown together it really can't handle much. Even in recent interviews they mentioned having to essentially copy over all of your character and item data for the content (duty finder) servers. The fact they always mention "BUY MORE RETAINERS" is why I said its more than likely a cash grab, but it is SE, their programming and management is always odd.

My main gripe and why I find XI built in a better fashion is the Porter Mog system, something basic yet can manage our inventories in such a better fashion in FFXIV, but they mention the game writes every 15 seconds (XIV)..

FilthMcNasty wrote:
In XI you were limited in how much you could participate in many things, but there were so many more things to do that if you enjoyed enough of them you could stay busy. Maybe I just have more patience than today's average gamer, but I feel like it was viable variety that kept me from getting burned out on that game.


This. This is why I said XIV is largely 5 years old, 2 years in terms of ARR with an expansion, yet despite that 2 years+expansion, I don't feel like I have much of anything to do because I actually progressed my character. Even if I were to go back to 2.x content...there's no point because the game ITSELF tells you to essentially go away and focus on HW..which content wise, is a main storyline, Alexander Normal, Ravana Ex, Bismarck Ex and Alexander Savage. Alexander Normal and Bismarck Ex honestly has no reason to exist in the grand scheme of things given progression, but people wanted a story mode which is what's going to hurt XIV's content for a long time to come because SE won't (or can't) release the content at the same time, so you're going to have weekly lockout (new story mode version), then a month later you'll have (weekly lock savage version with a higher ilvl) then you'll have the next alliance based content that is inferior in terms of progression ilvl come after thus taking a step backwards. The format is messy even in comparison to other MMOs like WoW and GW2. So while the content exist...XIV's progression is a gear treadmill, Bismarck's gear is inferior to Ravana's and even upgraded Law gear.

Esoterics is now out and anyone can get it even without raiding..bam, you invalidated the need to ever get Ravana (i190) weapons. So as said, content exists, but vertical progression makes it feels like..there's not much..so the little that does exist you get burned and eventually bored as hell. In XI, using the same time frame, I had plenty to do even with cooldowns or JP day waits.

Edited, Aug 13th 2015 7:08am by Theonehio

Edited, Aug 13th 2015 7:11am by Theonehio
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#47 Aug 13 2015 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Theonehio wrote:
Being blunt:

XIV is barely supporting the content structure it does have. Yeah it makes people happy that barely play the game, but people who do keep on the up and up all agree that end-game in XIV in general is sorely lacking in general. So "old school" is certainly out of the question. I mean, GW2 and PSO2 (even though not a traditional MMO in the sense) does it beautifully, so it certainly can work.

However XIV suffers from far too many problems to see it viable. In 2 years time the game has not evolved, at all, systematically. 3.0 feels exactly like 2.0 era, so it doesn't seem likely they'll ever move on from this format, which is fine but is indeed a bit boring.

Let's be honest though - bringing up HNMs/Ground kings from 2003-2004 era of FFXI is kind of silly because XI evolved loooooooong since then, even by 2006 in terms of open world content. So while 2006 is still technically old school by today's standards, I could definitely see systems like ZNM/Voidwatch/Walk of Echos (this is technically open world) working for sure in terms of content, but in implementation? The fact the servers would die if they so much as gave everyone a few more inventory spaces means the game itself can't actually handle any shift in content format at all.

Karlina wrote:
Personally I prefer the prestige that comes from non-gear accomplishments. Things that anyone can do but not everyone chooses to. In FFXI I was much prouder of the fact that I was Last Verse, Eternal Mercenary, and rank 10 in all nations, than I was of any items I had. Even in FFXIV I'm prouder of my "The Negotiator" title than of my DRG gear. I'd rather be able to say "I did that" than "I have that" (though titles and vanity items are always a nice bonus :)) Not everything has to be about gear in the first place.


This is why I like XI - It has a variety, there's lots of various things you can do progression wise and while gear is the overall goal, like any RPG and progression is the end goal (like any video game) XI had content you did because it was fun or because it would eventually pay off for you. In XIV, all you do is a gear treadmill. Your only progression is grinding either:

Tomes
Alexander/Alexander Savage.

This is 2 years later in XIV ARR, this is ignoring the 3 years of XIV 1.x. - XIV is nothing but gear grinding and what proves this is:

How populated is Golden Saucer and its activities now compared to when it was implemented, versus people spamming Ravana or Alexander (either)? The only thing to really do in XIV is either leveling, doing your weekly stuff or crafting/gathering. Essentially either grind, grind or grind for gear in some fashion. So I don't know, maybe it's because I've kept current on XIV content but it feels way more restrictive than XI ever had.

Though vertical progression MMOs tend to be like that.

Edited, Aug 9th 2015 6:06am by Theonehio


I Agree with most of this.
I am thinking of re-subbing FFXI for the finish..
I am still subbed for FFXIV but I have not touched it in weeks. I am dieing to play but every time I get home I just dont have the pull..
To me the add on feels like a major fail. It added nothing new except new land. It did add flying which is supper cool. But all questing feels the same, All dungeons feel the same, hunts feel the same and fates feel the same. The game is not a new agame and has a major expansion and the only thing they have added since the beginning of the game really is hunts. Personally I am bored and it is not lack of content it is lack of a new type of content. I think FFXIV has huge potential but I am worried it will never be realized. Just in housing alone there is huge potential. The problem I see is they think they have a formula that works so far and wont change it at all. Eventually people will get bored and maybe then they will change it than or maybe to late.

Valk summed it up for me right here in another thread:

Valkayree wrote:


I can understand that. They get a good formula and just re-wrap what works, which normally I am 100% with, but I can get behind new ways to get there just the same. For instance, I remember when they implemented Campaign in FFXI. Was a nice change of pace. Would be nice to have beseiged cities in ffxiv as well, where you all get together and defend the city.


That was reply to a post by me in which I said:
Nashred wrote:

Thanks for the info.
I played FFXI for 7 years or so.. I understand the carrot and all.. I just like when they move that carrot out farther they give me some new way too get there. I feel like to level is basically the same dungeons, hunts and fates again just a in a new wrapper. At least as far as I have got.. It is kind of like chewing gum and they change the wrapper/package but not the flavor of the gum, I want a new flavor not the same stuff I have been doing for a year or so in the game already. I can not help how I feel, I just wish they would have added something totally different.


Edited, Jul 27th 2015 3:16pm by Nashred


When a major expansion came out in FFXI they always brought something new to the table like Campaign or Dynamis ETC.

Do not get me wrong I left FFXI for a reason, I was looking for something new. I liked FFXIV even though yea somethings I still thought needed fixing or changed but overall I liked FFXIV. Nothing it perfect.

Even though people complain about certain things in FFXI it gave you multiple ways to level even if they were tedious.There were so many ways to level. Campaign, EXP parties, books, GOV, aby etc.

I really what think is hurting is all the instances and not open world stuff.

I am not predicting the demise of the game because I see the potential this game has and far more than any other mmo right now, Just for me it is feeling really old..

I have not unsubdued yet because I am enjoying the story which I want to finish... The story is still great, I am just having a hard time to get to the level to continue on with the story.

It is the leveling that is such a grind for me. I cant run another dungeon or fate.


FilthMcNasty wrote:

In XI you were limited in how much you could participate in many things, but there were so many more things to do that if you enjoyed enough of them you could stay busy. Maybe I just have more patience than today's average gamer, but I feel like it was viable variety that kept me from getting burned out on that game.
Edited, Aug 13th 2015 6:10am by FilthMcNasty


This is it right in what you said but FFXI is a older game and had time to add so much more. I do feel this game has been around long enough though to have had something added.

You know I played FFXI for like maybe 7 years. I would research what I would do during lunch and excited to get home and play almost everyday. I did feel like that with FFXIV from 0 - 50 and a little way into end game. Then it all became so repetitious. Then I discovered crafting which I loved and renewed my love for the game. The expansion seems to have tore it away from me.

What's weird is If the expansion had not come out yet I would probably be playing most days. It is the grind of leveling and not having many ways to do it.



Edited, Aug 13th 2015 2:08pm by Nashred
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#48 Aug 13 2015 at 4:36 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
the only thing they have added since the beginning of the game really is hunts.


And treasure hunts, and pvp, and the gold saucer, and larger casual raids, and the relic upgrade line, and flying, and expanding the hunt to include lower levels, and new jobs with new mechanics and playstyles, and an entirely new progression system for crafters and gatherers.

We see what we want to see.
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#49 Aug 13 2015 at 7:04 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
the only thing they have added since the beginning of the game really is hunts.


And treasure hunts, and pvp, and the gold saucer, and larger casual raids, and the relic upgrade line, and flying, and expanding the hunt to include lower levels, and new jobs with new mechanics and playstyles, and an entirely new progression system for crafters and gatherers.

We see what we want to see.


Let's not forget free company housing, personal housing, free company workshops, free company airships, beast men quests, PVP, Frontlines, etc...

I am still waiting for them to add those three additional Grand Company ranks And all the related content

Edited, Aug 13th 2015 11:49pm by kainsilv
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#50 Aug 13 2015 at 7:53 PM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:

In XI you were limited in how much you could participate in many things, but there were so many more things to do that if you enjoyed enough of them you could stay busy. Maybe I just have more patience than today's average gamer, but I feel like it was viable variety that kept me from getting burned out on that game.


This is it right in what you said but FFXI is a older game and had time to add so much more. I do feel this game has been around long enough though to have had something added.


FFXI 3.0 equivalent would be CoP. If you compare XI to XIV side by side in their respective timelines XI still had more to do. Again, it comes down to more of the game being viable content. It seems like the philosophy has shifted away from 'what can we add to this game that players will enjoy' to 'how can we keep people busy for the next x months'.

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#51 Aug 13 2015 at 9:58 PM Rating: Excellent
Don't forget only Chapter 1 of CoP was available at launch, and no Limbus or {sea}. You didn't access to those until Chapter 7.
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