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#102 Oct 23 2015 at 4:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Actually, what they should have done was made player housing instanced so that everyone could have it.


I feel like this could still be added in addition to the current housing system... maybe just as an expansion of the inn rooms, but make the rooms bigger so they're closer to small houses in size. The perk of owning a house in one of the wards would be having a yard, and also having a property that's visible to everyone, which is kind of a cool thing.

I really like non-instanced housing areas where people can gather and you're not in an isolated, instanced bubble. But adding instances for those who don't have houses would be a good solution so everyone could enjoy things like furnishings.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2015 3:32pm by Thayos
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#103 Oct 23 2015 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Actually, what they should have done was made player housing instanced so that everyone could have it.

Maybe. I'm sure they considered it but ultimately the devs wanted housing to be an open, community thing. Instances are the exact opposite of that. Are there problem with the system as is? Absolutely. Would making houses instanced and removing all sense of community actually be better? Not necessarily.

It's personal preference really and personally I like the system as is. It has some major issues, but I like interacting with my neighbors and walking into random houses more than the idea of infinite, but lonely and separate houses.
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#104 Oct 23 2015 at 4:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Karlina wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Actually, what they should have done was made player housing instanced so that everyone could have it.

Maybe. I'm sure they considered it but ultimately the devs wanted housing to be an open, community thing. Instances are the exact opposite of that. Are there problem with the system as is? Absolutely. Would making houses instanced and removing all sense of community actually be better? Not necessarily.


What message are you sending as a developer when you say that your product is meant for casual players, but you implement housing that is limited to a select few; specifically those who play the game enough that they can actually afford it(read: not casuals)? Sorry, but the community argument was never on the table because there isn't enough space for it(pun intended).
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#105 Oct 23 2015 at 5:10 PM Rating: Good
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Instanced housing actually doesn't have to be isolated. Imagine if you could pick your neighbors whom are all registered in the same region, say up to 8, and place their house relative to your own in a roughly pre-defined grid with some varied templates to work with. Thus, when exiting your house, you could choose to go to your iteration of the neighborhood or that of anyone on your list. Bonus points if said list also listed the number of people in the area at the time.

Everyone could choose to have their own unique neighborhood or even just remain isolated. And unlike wards, they needn't be active 100% of the time unless someone willingly chooses to enter them.
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#106 Oct 23 2015 at 6:57 PM Rating: Excellent
I still prefer truly communal open-world zones to instanced regions, even if you can hand-pick your neighbors. Part of what makes open-world areas interesting is you can't hand pick who moves in next door, and you can't completely customize everything all around you. It adds a touch of realism that you can't get with ultimate customization.
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#107 Oct 23 2015 at 8:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly, with the current system, both could have been implimented.

There are three ways this could have been done, and I honestly think SE should have implimented all three.

First and foremost is the open community one we have now. The wards are effectively huge instances with each interior house loading only when someone is inside them. Balmung in particular noticed this during their peak busy times where houses just can't be entered because the server is under heavy load.

If this is happening, then the reason why they chose the larger communities like this as opposed to the next two options may because the underlining server structure just can't handle it - like trying to turn a toaster into a convener pizza oven.

The second is small 'field' instances with one or a couple houses in them. Much smaller versions of what we have now, allowing people placement of fields. You pair this off with a in-load interior, and what you would get is a seamless interior/exterior house instance that is private. Something of that degree may actually merit some sort of cost upkeep, seeming it's exclusive and private and whatnot.

The third one is easy, and they're currently doing it. Which is the equivilant of FFXI mog houses. Free Company Private Rooms serve this purpose, and while I get the idea of providing some incentives of actually being a part of a Free Company, the underlining problems with Free Company housing makes the whole thing prohibitive. Now, if the Free Company Hall could have a Private Plot (the second idea listed) and then people have their private rooms on top of that - so long as it wasn't limited spacing, I could see it working.

But the whole thing is based on the idea that SE could load those instances in tandem - which honestly I doubt, looking at the way the whole structure breaks down. It seems that SE's hamster-wheel servers just can't handle that many individual instance loads for housing, which is why they went with larger scope yet more limited housing.

I don't really agree with the whole thing. Breaking it down into all three above would really work well if SE could float the capital for it, and it would make everyone happy. I just don't think corporate is going to allow it - not without slapping a rl price tag on the private plots.
#108 Oct 23 2015 at 9:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
I still prefer truly communal open-world zones to instanced regions, even if you can hand-pick your neighbors. Part of what makes open-world areas interesting is you can't hand pick who moves in next door, and you can't completely customize everything all around you. It adds a touch of realism that you can't get with ultimate customization.


I agree but since the space in such a place is inherently finite, it's a flawed design in an MMO space; this should have been obvious from the beginning of the design process for this system.

Given this most recent development and combined with several previous ones, I believe we have enough data to conclude that SE's design process is at best inherently flawed and at worst deliberately sloppy. This isn't even sort of the first time they've made a design choice that simply doesn't work in an MMO that is played by even a moderately-sized playerbase.

Housing space, instance timers, UI design, retainer limitations (oh but not if you pay more...)... the list goes on and on. For whatever reason, SE has adopted a design process that fundamentally does not work when a lot of people are playing their game. You simply don't design multi-user online experiences this way. You haven't for decades. Why are they doing it?

Back in caveman times I was doing game development on MUDs. For anyone that doesn't have their dead sea scrolls handy, those were the text-based precursors to MMOs. The most popular MUDs were played by maybe a few hundred people at any given time, most were much smaller accommodating a few dozen at once.

When I was designing a system or a feature for one of those, I always did so with an eye toward making sure that whatever I was designing could be expanded as much as needed. Whether that meant making sure that my design worked in a large space as well as a small one or if it meant a hard limit on something to keep memory requirements under control, but that could be expanded with an in-game command if necessary. If I, a total amateur, could figure that out, then it is impossible that a real game designer couldn't.

SE has shown through their implementations that they either don't have a grasp of simple future proofing, or they don't care about future proofing which is probably more concerning a possibility.

Where are our PF menu options for Heavensward content? That could've been tossed in with one of the hotfixes if the menu items weren't individually hardcoded or something.
ALL character data is seriously being sent and saved every 15 seconds? A: For the love of god, why? and B: Why are we sending data that isn't being altered?
Housing for a strictly limited number of people in a game played by hundreds of thousands? Are you serious? With no plan in place to handle player turnover?
Adding TP bars to the UI means that they have to take UI elements off the main screen? The hell?

I love FFXIV. The game has its problems but it's a solid piece of work and it's fun to play. I just don't understand why SE is so bound and determined to do such an awful job at game design.

Anyway rant over, had to get that off my chest.
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#109 Oct 24 2015 at 12:02 AM Rating: Excellent
Have this... it will make you feel better.

/em hands Callinon part of a chocolate bar.
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#110 Oct 24 2015 at 5:25 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
I still prefer truly communal open-world zones to instanced regions, even if you can hand-pick your neighbors. Part of what makes open-world areas interesting is you can't hand pick who moves in next door, and you can't completely customize everything all around you. It adds a touch of realism that you can't get with ultimate customization.

There are just too many players who would make use of player housing to pull off anything in an open world setting. The only way it would work is if servers had a lower limit for total players, but that is counter-intuitive to making a world feel more.. alive. I get that you want realism, but there is often a disconnect between what is realistically possible in our world vs what makes the world of Eorzea realistic. Instanced zones for housing provide the best compromise for both players and developers.
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30 bucks is almost free

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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#111 Oct 24 2015 at 6:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Better servers goes a long way as a first step regardless though.
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#112 Oct 24 2015 at 6:20 AM Rating: Default
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housing is a failure imo
the lolneighbourhood is such a waste of possible resources we could have used for actual creative customization.

They failed horribly at housing , its boring, allows for almost zero player creativity. (using carbon copy furniture in carbon copy homes in carbon copy wards to boot lol how exciting!) with the only ability to lolrotate is shameful in a modern mmo

1/10 no more then that

not to mention the lack of availability for so many players after this long...wow

I like ffxiv O.o but the housing end of it is embarrassing unless one is very very easily amused, which most ppl with functioning gray matter...are not.
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#113 Oct 24 2015 at 12:11 PM Rating: Excellent
I've seen some amazing creative things people have done with housing. Sure, it's not nearly as robust as The Sims and there's definitely room for improvement, but that hasn't stopped people from doing silly and amazing work within the limitations. Sometimes repeating the same piece of furniture multiple times leads to an unexpected effect, like piling a dozen morbol rugs on the ground with plants interspersed to make in indoor jungle.
#114 Oct 24 2015 at 2:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Theonehio wrote:
Better servers goes a long way as a first step regardless though.


Agreed. Sometimes I wish SE would hand Yoshida a blank check.
#115 Oct 24 2015 at 3:44 PM Rating: Excellent
Hyrist wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
Better servers goes a long way as a first step regardless though.


Agreed. Sometimes I wish SE would hand Yoshida a blank check.


I still believe, even at this point, SE hasn't realized the game is successful. It'll eventually hit them, just not sure when.
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#116 Oct 24 2015 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
Better servers goes a long way as a first step regardless though.


Agreed. Sometimes I wish SE would hand Yoshida a blank check.


I still believe, even at this point, SE hasn't realized the game is successful. It'll eventually hit them, just not sure when.


They realize it. This is why I'm "cynical" because the success came by...doing the bare minimum..so now they don't actually have to go out of their way until they start losing a sizable chunk of players. Even the EU datacenter apparently was plagued with issues for certain groups and those technically should be a brand new cluster. Though I'm willing to bet, much like XI getting the shaft, XIV may not have as much allocated to it now in order to save money for the FFVII remake and the other older IP remakes they announced they're going to do recently.
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#117 Oct 24 2015 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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Back in caveman times I was doing game development on MUDs. For anyone that doesn't have their dead sea scrolls handy, those were the text-based precursors to MMOs. The most popular MUDs were played by maybe a few hundred people at any given time, most were much smaller accommodating a few dozen at once.

I worked on MU*s, too. Some more combat-centric like MUDs, others more RP-oriented like MUSHes. I kinda miss it, but I kinda don't. At that same time, that experience has pretty much influenced most feedback I've thrown into online gaming since.

Like, a big problem some MUDs faced involved people overleveled for an area mass clearing zones because it was better EXP than cautiously taking out of-level things. This was bad for the lower level people because they couldn't EXP, repops often on something like a 10-15m timer. Some would approach the problem by heavily nerfing EXP gains after a point. Some went to try and make the harder mobs more lucrative. Occasionally you'd get partying promoted where even if there was a gap between players, they could still get something out of it together instead of fighting for the resource. Sometimes the appropriate solution was to add/expand areas. Nonetheless, congestion seems a common theme.

Go fig.
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#118 Oct 24 2015 at 7:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Like, a big problem some MUDs faced involved people overleveled for an area mass clearing zones because it was better EXP than cautiously taking out of-level things. This was bad for the lower level people because they couldn't EXP, repops often on something like a 10-15m timer. Some would approach the problem by heavily nerfing EXP gains after a point. Some went to try and make the harder mobs more lucrative. Occasionally you'd get partying promoted where even if there was a gap between players, they could still get something out of it together instead of fighting for the resource. Sometimes the appropriate solution was to add/expand areas. Nonetheless, congestion seems a common theme.


The more things change, the more they stay the same. When you break it down, I've been playing the same stupid game for like 20 years now.
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#119 Oct 24 2015 at 8:22 PM Rating: Good
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
Better servers goes a long way as a first step regardless though.


Agreed. Sometimes I wish SE would hand Yoshida a blank check.


I still believe, even at this point, SE hasn't realized the game is successful. It'll eventually hit them, just not sure when.

I almost feel like they wouldn't handle it any differently if it were wildly popular. It as if they're content that it's generating income and they don't want to do anything at all to risk that. It's been out long enough that those who have decided that this is their MMO have settled in and it's at least got a baseline. I don't think that gives them a pass to try anything radical, but I do think they should at least wade further out into water they're sure they can still stand in should the water get a little choppy.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#120 Oct 26 2015 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:
Better servers goes a long way as a first step regardless though.


Exactly or housing servers. I like the subdivision idea and having neighbors.


Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
Better servers goes a long way as a first step regardless though.


Agreed. Sometimes I wish SE would hand Yoshida a blank check.


I still believe, even at this point, SE hasn't realized the game is successful. It'll eventually hit them, just not sure when.


Might be too late by the time they figure it out.

Problems is after loosing millions for years SE had to somehow finance their debt and those people want their money back and they dont care about the future of some games.

But anyway this is not the fix. All that is going happen is they yank some housing away from people that worked hard for their house. They give it to some new players that use it for a month and never comeback just like now. Tell me how this stops the problem with people not using their houses?

They need to fix housing and give it a purpose so people use their houses and subdivisions. They are empty and will always be empty the way it is now.

There is so much potential with housing instead it some side thing that has no purpose what so ever other than a little decorating.







Edited, Oct 26th 2015 3:22pm by Nashred
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#121 Oct 28 2015 at 6:35 AM Rating: Decent
I understand why they made some choices... but surely by now they have the financial support to either add more servers to allow for more plots or are at least considering to change the system. Housing should be a basic right to everybody. Gone are the days of Star Wars Galaxies, but come on, surely there is a better way.

I am glad they are going to be adding or in this case freeing up some housing... but they in turn are going to cause a really ugly problem for any of those players who return.
#122 Nov 10 2015 at 9:00 AM Rating: Decent
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It still only says

Forty-five days of inactivity
The estate will be automatically demolished. Still nothing on the 90 days:


Quote:
Thirty-five days of inactivity
An e-mail will be delivered to the registered e-mail addresses of all free company members, or the owner of a private estate, indicating the estate is being prepared for auto-demolition.

Forty-two days of inactivity
An e-mail will be delivered to the registered e-mail addresses of all free company members, or the owner of a private estate, indicating that the estate will be demolished automatically in three days.

Forty-five days of inactivity
The estate will be automatically demolished.


Way too short.
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#123 Nov 10 2015 at 9:38 AM Rating: Excellent
Yeah, that is too short.
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#124 Nov 10 2015 at 9:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Yeah, that is too short.


Yea Tesee has been gone 21 days right now helping family out. Even if she gives someone access I dont think it matters it has to be the owner. She is never gone 45 days but her first thoughts before leaving of getting home is not I need to jump on and check her house.

I am going to have to log her on but not everyone has someone who can do that.



Edited, Nov 10th 2015 11:00am by Nashred
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#125 Nov 10 2015 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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It starts 45 Days as of now. So it seems the English notes were correct and they actually meant to always have it as a 45 day thing, instead of 45 day buffer and 45 days after till demolition.
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#126 Nov 10 2015 at 10:12 AM Rating: Excellent
To be honest, I don't even use my house. I think my wife would have fun with it, but she barely plays.

Thinking maybe I should try to find a FC on my server that needs one. It's just a small, but someone else could actually get real use from it. For me, it's just a cosmetic piece. My personal needs are all taken care of by the FC house.

What SE should do is have some kind of incentive program to encourage people with personal houses to sell their real estate to FCs.


Edited, Nov 10th 2015 8:15am by Thayos
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