do void ark is 1 guaranteed Mhachi farthing a week.. assuming you only need 1 a week to get an upgrade item (and not multiple, like those pages in alex savage) then does that not mean doin alex savage for upgrade items is pointless now as youd only be doing it for gordian drops?
Also speaking of pointless since Im sure VA gear wont be the same IL as alex savage or upgraded ESO gear (thats not how crystal tower worked after all) why would anyone bother even getting VA gear when they can just get the upgrade items every week and be done with it?
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- So does 3.1 make alex savage almost useless?
So does 3.1 make alex savage almost useless?Follow
Seeing as how we all knew this was coming, one could argue that Savage raiding has actually been useless this entire time.
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
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Not useless. In any case.
What's being provided here is multiple paths and routes to a goal, as well as having a catch-up mechanic for those not on the bleeding edge.
Alexander Savage, and any hardcore raiding gear will always be its own prestigue, regardless of the stats on them. You wear them because you've earned them, and in spite of the stats and availability, the experience of it can never be taken away. There are also unique rewards not armor related that can only drop from there, such as the Gobtank mount. I feel as if SE can improve rewards on this department to further incentives the content, but they first have to make the content less about punishing mechanics and more about engagement and adaptation.
And, really, that's all there is to it. I have three characters. Those characters have more than one job to level and gear. 24 man routes are shortcuts to gearing + Glamours. Things like Savage rewards? If I do them, they're primarily reserved for my main character and class.
My secondary character may not even get as far as a full upgraded ESO set before 3.2. But these methods exist so that I can gear them. Or that a friend recently returning to the game won't have to grind as long to be able to play on par with me.
It keeps the game easy to return to, while still rewarding those who maintain playing and dedicated to specific goals, by getting them something unique to what they are doing, even if that item isn't overtly more powerful.
Remember, the goal is to keep the game populated, not to weed out the population to determine who's the best/most skilled/most determined.
Btw... I apologize if I use derivatives of the term Determination overly much... I just finished Undertale.
What's being provided here is multiple paths and routes to a goal, as well as having a catch-up mechanic for those not on the bleeding edge.
Alexander Savage, and any hardcore raiding gear will always be its own prestigue, regardless of the stats on them. You wear them because you've earned them, and in spite of the stats and availability, the experience of it can never be taken away. There are also unique rewards not armor related that can only drop from there, such as the Gobtank mount. I feel as if SE can improve rewards on this department to further incentives the content, but they first have to make the content less about punishing mechanics and more about engagement and adaptation.
And, really, that's all there is to it. I have three characters. Those characters have more than one job to level and gear. 24 man routes are shortcuts to gearing + Glamours. Things like Savage rewards? If I do them, they're primarily reserved for my main character and class.
My secondary character may not even get as far as a full upgraded ESO set before 3.2. But these methods exist so that I can gear them. Or that a friend recently returning to the game won't have to grind as long to be able to play on par with me.
It keeps the game easy to return to, while still rewarding those who maintain playing and dedicated to specific goals, by getting them something unique to what they are doing, even if that item isn't overtly more powerful.
Remember, the goal is to keep the game populated, not to weed out the population to determine who's the best/most skilled/most determined.
Btw... I apologize if I use derivatives of the term Determination overly much... I just finished Undertale.
not true.. cause theres always the ones who can say "Ive had that gear for months", also while its normal "old" gear gets easier to obtain... that usually doesnt happen until the NEWER gear is available )3.2) it doesnt happen while the new gear is still relevant... if they keep this up newbies/casuals will be able to stay caught up instead of always one step/patch behind (which Im perfectly ok with).
I mean now Id only have to do savage for gordias ring, neck, head and hands instead of doing it to also get all my eso gear thats in the slots i didnt just list upgraded too
I mean now Id only have to do savage for gordias ring, neck, head and hands instead of doing it to also get all my eso gear thats in the slots i didnt just list upgraded too
SE made Savage Mode so punishing that people can't afford to be left behind.
There's already less than 1 percent of the total population (or is it less than 2 percent?) that has cleared savage mode... and the new content is going to come out in a few months... and meanwhile, others aren't clamoring to do the hardcore raid that's already there now... so without gear boosts for non-raiders, you'd be launching content for which fewer than 1k people on NA servers would be able to actually take on.
Edited, Nov 6th 2015 12:23pm by Thayos
There's already less than 1 percent of the total population (or is it less than 2 percent?) that has cleared savage mode... and the new content is going to come out in a few months... and meanwhile, others aren't clamoring to do the hardcore raid that's already there now... so without gear boosts for non-raiders, you'd be launching content for which fewer than 1k people on NA servers would be able to actually take on.
Edited, Nov 6th 2015 12:23pm by Thayos
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
not true.. cause theres always the ones who can say "Ive had that gear for months", also while its normal "old" gear gets easier to obtain... that usually doesnt happen until the NEWER gear is available )3.2) it doesnt happen while the new gear is still relevant... if they keep this up newbies/casuals will be able to stay caught up instead of always one step/patch behind (which Im perfectly ok with).
I mean now Id only have to do savage for gordias ring, neck, head and hands instead of doing it to also get all my eso gear thats in the slots i didnt just list upgraded too
I mean now Id only have to do savage for gordias ring, neck, head and hands instead of doing it to also get all my eso gear thats in the slots i didnt just list upgraded too
The question I'm going to pose to you is this: Why do casuall players have to stay "behind" ?
It makes absolutely no sense. Skill and dedication define a player, not their gearscore. You don't need some made up metric to tell yourself you've got what it takes to do things. And the less gear becomes an inhibitor to clearing content, the more accessible it comes to finding people who want to get it cleared - potential raiders who may grow to be good companions.
Putting a inhibitor with gear only serves to make it harder to play together.
Besides, there are going to be further markers that are going to maker dedication now, pentamelded acessories and whatnot. And prestigue will always still be held from those.
Let me put it this way. If I'm new to raiding and I've been invited to join your static. Do you REALLY want to have to spend the time gearing me current to make the raid clear easier or even possible, or would you rather have me fully geared and only need a bit of adjusting to get the mechanics down?
This goes back to my initial point in me thinking I don't think gearing should be relevant raiding so much as accomplishment. We already have this massive chasm separating out 'hardcore' and 'casual' this is about as close as SE can get to helping encourage them to play more together that they can get.
Thayos wrote:
SE made Savage Mode so punishing that people can't afford to be left behind.
There's already less than 1 percent of the total population (or is it less than 2 percent?) that has cleared savage mode... and the new content is going to come out in a few months... and meanwhile, others aren't clamoring to do the hardcore raid that's already there now... so without gear boosts for non-raiders, you'd be launching content for which fewer than 1k people on NA servers would be able to actually take on.
Edited, Nov 6th 2015 12:23pm by Thayos
There's already less than 1 percent of the total population (or is it less than 2 percent?) that has cleared savage mode... and the new content is going to come out in a few months... and meanwhile, others aren't clamoring to do the hardcore raid that's already there now... so without gear boosts for non-raiders, you'd be launching content for which fewer than 1k people on NA servers would be able to actually take on.
Edited, Nov 6th 2015 12:23pm by Thayos
werent the Coils just as punishing back when they first came out? I mean there are still ppl who cant beat twintania
Hyrist wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
not true.. cause theres always the ones who can say "Ive had that gear for months", also while its normal "old" gear gets easier to obtain... that usually doesnt happen until the NEWER gear is available )3.2) it doesnt happen while the new gear is still relevant... if they keep this up newbies/casuals will be able to stay caught up instead of always one step/patch behind (which Im perfectly ok with).
I mean now Id only have to do savage for gordias ring, neck, head and hands instead of doing it to also get all my eso gear thats in the slots i didnt just list upgraded too
I mean now Id only have to do savage for gordias ring, neck, head and hands instead of doing it to also get all my eso gear thats in the slots i didnt just list upgraded too
The question I'm going to pose to you is this: Why do casuall players have to stay "behind" ?
It makes absolutely no sense. Skill and dedication define a player, not their gearscore. You don't need some made up metric to tell yourself you've got what it takes to do things. And the less gear becomes an inhibitor to clearing content, the more accessible it comes to finding people who want to get it cleared - potential raiders who may grow to be good companions.
Putting a inhibitor with gear only serves to make it harder to play together.
Besides, there are going to be further markers that are going to maker dedication now, pentamelded acessories and whatnot. And prestigue will always still be held from those.
Let me put it this way. If I'm new to raiding and I've been invited to join your static. Do you REALLY want to have to spend the time gearing me current to make the raid clear easier or even possible, or would you rather have me fully geared and only need a bit of adjusting to get the mechanics down?
This goes back to my initial point in me thinking I don't think gearing should be relevant raiding so much as accomplishment. We already have this massive chasm separating out 'hardcore' and 'casual' this is about as close as SE can get to helping encourage them to play more together that they can get.
When did I say they had to stay behind? thats why I asked the question I asked because Im glad that this patch (the first of its kind) makes it so that theye no longer behind... they might not get the gear on day one.. but theyll still get it while its still relevant/ BiS instead of having to wait til the new Bis comes out before they can get the GOOD stuff.. this is a GOOD thing.. i hope it stays this way.
"This goes back to my initial point in me thinking I don't think gearing should be relevant raiding so much as accomplishment. We already have this massive chasm separating out 'hardcore' and 'casual' this is about as close as SE can get to helping encourage them to play more together that they can get."
Or they can stop putting DPS checks or gear as a factor in winning fights and make it all skill based... just look at FFXI, as long as you werent level 75 wearing level 60 gear, as long as you had gear adequate to your level you could do ANYTHING, you didnt need good/best gear to accomplish endgame stuff you just needed to not suck (And as you said.. gear doesnt define skill)... thats how it SHOULD be
Or they can stop putting DPS checks or gear as a factor in winning fights and make it all skill based... just look at FFXI, as long as you werent level 75 wearing level 60 gear, as long as you had gear adequate to your level you could do ANYTHING, you didnt need good/best gear to accomplish endgame stuff you just needed to not suck (And as you said.. gear doesnt define skill)... thats how it SHOULD be
Oh I'm good about them stopping DPS checks. But either way, the stats on the items that drop are minimized, and we're talking about glamour.
So yeah, we agree there. I don't think that the gear that drops from Raids should be more powerful than gear that you would work for through other means though. All if it seems to have thought in how to balance it.
I want to see what the pacing is. Because we have to figure, there's a LOT of random components that are going to make it hard for players to get a full set a 210 gear through Missions.
So yeah, we agree there. I don't think that the gear that drops from Raids should be more powerful than gear that you would work for through other means though. All if it seems to have thought in how to balance it.
I want to see what the pacing is. Because we have to figure, there's a LOT of random components that are going to make it hard for players to get a full set a 210 gear through Missions.
who saisd or why would tehy even get 210 gear from missions?
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
who saisd or why would tehy even get 210 gear from missions?
Back to the accessibility portion. It's been five months since the content came out, it took weeks and weeks for people to get to the gear level they are now in order to do the content. If someone returns to join in, and helps fill a gap in a struggeing static, that new person, by old standards, would have to go through more weeks and weeks of grinding ESO to start catching up in gear.
This provides an alternative to catching those people up. As well as provide an alternate form of endgame for those who, frankly, don't find Raiding appealing.
Hyrist wrote:
The question I'm going to pose to you is this: Why do casuall players have to stay "behind" ?
Something tells me that the airship FC raids are going to give groups of well geared casuals a chance to get gear that no static group of eight will ever be able to obtain. So this new patch may just give the casuals a way to stay ahead.
Valkayree wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
The question I'm going to pose to you is this: Why do casuall players have to stay "behind" ?
Something tells me that the airship FC raids are going to give groups of well geared casuals a chance to get gear that no static group of eight will ever be able to obtain. So this new patch may just give the casuals a way to stay ahead.
That is... actually dead wrong.
Anything a casual player can do with their dedication level, a Hardcore player could also do. So in truth, you're catching casual players up statisticly, while Hardcore players get to enjoy the benefits of both.
Remember, Raids are on much larger timer, freeing Raiders up to do Exploration voyages in-between. Where as those who are casual, still will likely need a static to clear Alexander Savage. So no, it's still the fact that Alexander Savage is getting things a casual player will not for a long time.
Also, the difficulty of Hard FC runs, will likely push casual players away from it. That and the whole being in a FC, with a house, workshop, and level 50 airships that aren't already dominated by statics and other members. Hard modes will likely not be as accessible to the casual crowd as Normals and Easys are.
Hyrist wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
who saisd or why would tehy even get 210 gear from missions?
Back to the accessibility portion. It's been five months since the content came out, it took weeks and weeks for people to get to the gear level they are now in order to do the content. If someone returns to join in, and helps fill a gap in a struggeing static, that new person, by old standards, would have to go through more weeks and weeks of grinding ESO to start catching up in gear.
This provides an alternative to catching those people up. As well as provide an alternate form of endgame for those who, frankly, don't find Raiding appealing.
except we didnt start getting old tome gear from missions until 3.0 came out, sooo why would 3.1 or 3.2 buck that trend faster?
Thayos wrote:
Seeing as how we all knew this was coming, one could argue that Savage raiding has actually been useless this entire time.
Especially since Savage is supposed to be optional, hence the latest interview stating they're going to go back more towards Coil difficulty, which is inbetween "easy and Savage", as in the 'middle option.'
It purely depends on the ilvl Void Ark gear ends up as seeing as they confirmed the 210 from the airship content will likely have crappy stats as it's purely randomized aside the primary stats (STR/DEX/VIT/INT etc) so you could essentially end up with Spell speed pieces for melee dps.
The Thordans Reign they mentioned the weapons will help with Savage Alex 3/4 (since most raiders that didn't go for "world first" never spent the "12 hours+ a day raiding") so, it's not useless, it just lets people who want 210 gear that doesn't do savage get it, even though it serves virtually no purpose unless you're trying to finish Alex 3/4 Savage (which does benefit most from 210 gear.)
Realistically, casual players don't need "to catch up" yet while the Ilvl haven't risen, unless 3.1 does actually come with a higher ilvl, it's too soon to want to play "catch up" content wise, when you had 3 - 4 months to truthfully work on it. (Everyone can get Eso gear which is more than enough for any non savage content.)
I stopped doing the weekly Eso capping as the only content I would need better gear was raiding and I don't have a raid group at the moment. When they have made the old raid possible to clear with a half decent group there's a brand new raid out with even higher difficulty level than the last one and the welfare gear you get by then are always higher item level than the previous raid.
I can either be really terrible player or a really good one, if I'm somewhere in between I have the same gear as the most terrible player if that player is capping the current tomestome every week. Not that I need better gear to run the current Eso dungeons.
I can either be really terrible player or a really good one, if I'm somewhere in between I have the same gear as the most terrible player if that player is capping the current tomestome every week. Not that I need better gear to run the current Eso dungeons.
Which is normally true, but this go around I don't think that'll be the case since they mentioned they put the current raid a bit too high, which is why almost everyone who can clear the content definitely have AS1 and AS2 on farm but stuck on AS3, which is perfectly fine in terms of how difficult the content is, but 1 and 2 are unchanged - 2 has a few more waves and more HP to deal with. Only difficulty in 2 is dealing with DPS check given small enrage timer.
So actually, XIV again will be going backwards in difficulty. Yoshi wanted to add 3 difficulties (like any MMO) but apparently they can't afford to, so we're going to have to see what 3.2's Alexander is like.
So actually, XIV again will be going backwards in difficulty. Yoshi wanted to add 3 difficulties (like any MMO) but apparently they can't afford to, so we're going to have to see what 3.2's Alexander is like.
my definition of "caught up" would be having the best gear possible when is out.. ESO is 200 ESO upgraded is 210 and gordias is 210 so IT would be the best gear you could wear. thus wearing IT would be "caught up". Though even if you said "ok savaged is too hard... Ill just upgrade my ESO and have full 210 ger... sure it would be BiS, but it would still be "beat gear you could wear" so still caught up" Only issue with that thinking is,.... the ESO upgrade materials are locked behind savage too. Thus casuals are screwed.
Though VA will change that.. Im hoping the upgrade item you need is literally, one token per upgrade item, if hats the case Id just do Va once a week get that token until Iv filled every slot (and upgraded) except weapon, neck, hands and head sn one ring... then get new relic weapon. THEN do savage for the only 4 pieces i want from it (neck, ring, head and hands) should be easy when everything else Im wearing is il200+ (hopefully VS gear will be lower IL or crap enough that I wont ant it. Id hate to have to farm for THAT gear too... Crystal Tower (no floor) EVER dropped anything I wanted, those were all glamour piece.. I only did CT for the story.. Im hoping VA will be the same.
Though VA will change that.. Im hoping the upgrade item you need is literally, one token per upgrade item, if hats the case Id just do Va once a week get that token until Iv filled every slot (and upgraded) except weapon, neck, hands and head sn one ring... then get new relic weapon. THEN do savage for the only 4 pieces i want from it (neck, ring, head and hands) should be easy when everything else Im wearing is il200+ (hopefully VS gear will be lower IL or crap enough that I wont ant it. Id hate to have to farm for THAT gear too... Crystal Tower (no floor) EVER dropped anything I wanted, those were all glamour piece.. I only did CT for the story.. Im hoping VA will be the same.
Quote:
my definition of "caught up" would be having the best gear possible when is out
That's nice, but the actual definition of "caught up" is bringing someone up to the point where they're able to start on current content and enter the current endgame.
So lowering the prices on esoterics gear when the next tomestone is released...
Lifting the loot lockouts on VA and A1-4...
Making upgrade items available outside of Savage...
Those are examples of catch-up mechanisms. They don't mail you a set of i260 gear or something like that, but they bring you up to the current level of the content relatively quickly so that you're able to participate in it without having to grind for months and be eternally behind.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
They definitely didn't make this a catch up because:
Thordan's Weapons - ilvl 205. (Hence "To help clear AS3 and AS4 savage.")
Void Ark - ilvl200 as everyone knew.
Airship Content -ilvl150 (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay obsolete) - ilvl210 of PURELY randomized stats.
So yes, catch up is purely when the ilvl raises. Extreme catch up is if you join XIV now you get a set of ilvl90-110 gear completing main story and your job quests.
Thordan's Weapons - ilvl 205. (Hence "To help clear AS3 and AS4 savage.")
Void Ark - ilvl200 as everyone knew.
Airship Content -ilvl150 (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay obsolete) - ilvl210 of PURELY randomized stats.
So yes, catch up is purely when the ilvl raises. Extreme catch up is if you join XIV now you get a set of ilvl90-110 gear completing main story and your job quests.
SO they confirmed these ILs? In that case airship content will only be for fun until its "newness" wears off. VA will be to replace the il190 pieces I have of alex normal stuff (head, hands neck and ring.. and I dont think VA will drop accessories.. only armor right)? and Im guessing relic will be just as high in IL or higher than thordan in which case no reason at all to do it?
Yep, they released full patch notes with the items and such so the ilvls are displayed. I don't know what 150 could be good for..or useful for considering at 60 you can get law gear so easily...even more so in 3.1 when they boost law rates of dungeons and trials.
No VA Accessories and no crafted accessories in 3.1 either (that'd matter ilvl wise.) Relic will probably be ilvl200, since thordan is 205 then savage/upgraded eso is 210..so it can't be those ilvls, especially coming in a sub patch. (3.15) If it does end up higher than thordans, it'd be weird to obsolete content in only a few weeks after it comes out. So it wouldn't really be an alternate path since they already confirmed relics will be easier and people who has a zeta already bypasses the brunt of the work, so that'd literally be handing out an ilvl205 weapon to a good chunk of the population (Since a lot of people chose relic over farming T5/9/13.)
No VA Accessories and no crafted accessories in 3.1 either (that'd matter ilvl wise.) Relic will probably be ilvl200, since thordan is 205 then savage/upgraded eso is 210..so it can't be those ilvls, especially coming in a sub patch. (3.15) If it does end up higher than thordans, it'd be weird to obsolete content in only a few weeks after it comes out. So it wouldn't really be an alternate path since they already confirmed relics will be easier and people who has a zeta already bypasses the brunt of the work, so that'd literally be handing out an ilvl205 weapon to a good chunk of the population (Since a lot of people chose relic over farming T5/9/13.)
The only possible use I can see for i150 gear is to turn it in for points.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Theonehio wrote:
Yep, they released full patch notes with the items and such so the ilvls are displayed. I don't know what 150 could be good for..or useful for considering at 60 you can get law gear so easily...even more so in 3.1 when they boost law rates of dungeons and trials.
No VA Accessories and no crafted accessories in 3.1 either (that'd matter ilvl wise.) Relic will probably be ilvl200, since thordan is 205 then savage/upgraded eso is 210..so it can't be those ilvls, especially coming in a sub patch. (3.15) If it does end up higher than thordans, it'd be weird to obsolete content in only a few weeks after it comes out. So it wouldn't really be an alternate path since they already confirmed relics will be easier and people who has a zeta already bypasses the brunt of the work, so that'd literally be handing out an ilvl205 weapon to a good chunk of the population (Since a lot of people chose relic over farming T5/9/13.)
No VA Accessories and no crafted accessories in 3.1 either (that'd matter ilvl wise.) Relic will probably be ilvl200, since thordan is 205 then savage/upgraded eso is 210..so it can't be those ilvls, especially coming in a sub patch. (3.15) If it does end up higher than thordans, it'd be weird to obsolete content in only a few weeks after it comes out. So it wouldn't really be an alternate path since they already confirmed relics will be easier and people who has a zeta already bypasses the brunt of the work, so that'd literally be handing out an ilvl205 weapon to a good chunk of the population (Since a lot of people chose relic over farming T5/9/13.)
except current relic was already "easy" it was just time consuming yet everyone had one so there was clearly no difficulty, also didnt Yoshi P say this new relic would be "the same" as the old ones? Meaning the quests will not be exact copies but something with different names (i,e farming Air instead of farming Light but its gotten the same way light was gotten for example)
Also relic has always been the second best weapon in game the only thing that was better was coil weapons.. thus I would think the same should be said about this relic as such it would be 205... Now why get Thordan or have thordan if relic would be 205 too? Easy
1) Thordan will be available about a month before relic thus ppl can get those an get started on savage faster/earlier
2) Different stats, it should all be about preference and choice... I mean we have two different sets of, il210 gear you, but there are some piece of ESO you want and some of alex you want, there the variety I cant think of any situation where youd want a FULL set or upgraded ESO gar OR a FULL SET of alex savage gear... you mix and match depending on your preference
Thordan and relic could be the same way, 1 might have more accuracy which you feel you need more than something else so youd get that or another might focus on more crit or det which you might want/need that instead because you already have enough acc
Btw I see theres a new 210 item called Mistbreaker.. Im assuming those are from "sky" Please tell me those will be purple and not blue? Thus Ill feel no need to bother getting them lol
Everything from Dia is Aetherial, so Pink. Unless they changed their minds. Relics were mostly a time consuming thing, which is why releasing them in 3.15 is kind of an odd step rather than at 3.1 so if you're making it as an alternate path, may as well do it at the ground level rather than having less of a reason to do content that just came out.
The only reason you'd want a full set is if the stats actually benefit you - They put so much hype in skill/spell speed changes that the only thing that truly happened was spell speed being the winning in that battle. Since it will no doubt have a materia stage, that's usually the draw of a relic. Relics ended up matching at the end because the only other option was FCoB - 135. Some of the weapons were actually pretty good, relic was better if you can get a secondary match you needed. A lot wanted to do Z Weps for the glamour though.
The only reason you'd want a full set is if the stats actually benefit you - They put so much hype in skill/spell speed changes that the only thing that truly happened was spell speed being the winning in that battle. Since it will no doubt have a materia stage, that's usually the draw of a relic. Relics ended up matching at the end because the only other option was FCoB - 135. Some of the weapons were actually pretty good, relic was better if you can get a secondary match you needed. A lot wanted to do Z Weps for the glamour though.
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