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#52 Oct 14 2016 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:
That 6-7 month content drought until the expansion though.


As someone who's played WoW for a long time..... it could be worse.
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#53 Oct 14 2016 at 3:05 PM Rating: Excellent
My static might actually have enough time to get through all the content before 4.0 hits!
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#54 Dec 20 2016 at 10:35 PM Rating: Good
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I got queues for A5-9N! It's a Christmas miracle! And lo the bonuses did rain from the sky.

Also finished the farming necessary to both start my anima weapon and jump immediately to the umbrite step. Btw.. this step is dumb. "Farm upwards of 24,000 lore GO." I've decided to handle this by farming up an umbrite per day for however long it takes (at least 2 months, probably a little longer). Hopefully they either nerf the cost of umbrite in 3.5 in January or give me some other way to get it.

My road to all-60 is progressing nicely. I've got NIN, BLM, AST, SMN/SCH, and PLD there along with all crafting and gathering classes (thank you grand companies, thank you). Working on MNK now, currently at 56.

Finished the ARR beast tribes I was missing (sylphs and sahagin) and finished the allied beast tribe questline. My HW beast tribes are done except for the moogles whom I've just started on (currently rank 3 with them). At this point I'm just doing them daily for MNK exp.

Chocobo is level 20. So no more ditching him in the stables. And since there's basically no one in my FC anymore, I'm also going to stop cleaning the stables. The two capped chocobos still in there can live in squalor for a while.
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#55 Dec 21 2016 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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Karlina wrote:
Same. I NEVER tank content that's new to me. I'll happily heal or DPS new content but there's no way I'm going to tank when going in blind.


I know this was posted like 6 months ago, but since I just returned to the game, I feel it is highly relevant to what I feel.

This here says it all.

I also refuse to tank new content (in a Duty Finder PUG) that I am not experienced in, for a couple of reasons:

1). Random groups oftentimes demand the tank know where to go, and they want to do just that: GO. God Forbid a tank pause between pulls to figure out where to go next, and if a tank should pull extra mobs that are unnecessary, people get upset rather quickly if it is done too many times (even if it's a <50 leveling dungeon with no 50s or 60s in there! Somehow "Go in to get XP" != "Kill Mobs"). Obviously if I've never been there, I am NOT going to know which groups must be killed and which can be skipped, and many dungeons have optional side-passages and rooms. Some dungeons are rather bad about this (I remember Qarn being quite mazy).

2). Everybody expects you to know the boss fights, and I've seen people groaning around when a tank asks for instructions before pulling a boss, or you just get silence. I also see tanks not even bothering to ask (they obviously didn't know the fight, judging by their lack of awareness of mechanics), then we have a wipe, and people start telling the tank what he/she should be doing in a not-so-polite manner (why didn't you say that crap EARLIER!?).

Now, maybe if the PUG scene was a little more kind to newbie tanks, then you wouldn't have tanks refusing to MT dungeons, or at least newbie tanks not wanting to MT.

A newbie healer or DPS on the other hand, has a lot less burden placed upon them -- everybody just follows the MT unless told to do otherwise. Tank pulls, DPS attack his mobs until they die. Healer keeps everybody alive. The only time this is different is during boss fights, and in very few other situations. All of the burdens of knowing the dungeon (sans boss mechanics) is placed upon the MT.

Edited, Dec 21st 2016 8:39am by Lyrailis
#56 Dec 21 2016 at 8:03 AM Rating: Default
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That's why as much as people hate me saying it, that's one of the biggest differences I noticed in the DF scene between datacenters. There's just a general unfriendliness to new people. I'm not going to go out of my way to be "kind" when it's older content (even if its new to you for example) but I won't be an *** about things, however if the content existed for 2-3 years, I do expect some effort on your part to actually look up how to tank or how the tanking goes for x content. I understand if not comfortable with mass pulling and the like yet, however...especially on certain data centers, you'll have DPS or healer all too happy to "force" you into a mass pull since as per official forums, you're an "*******" if you let someone die because they choose to pull for you.

So more specifically, a newbie healer has just as much if not more placed on them if they land with certain types of tanks, because some tanks queuing into mentor roulette or their roulette for the day will mass pull even if the new healer may not be able to keep up. So it is true it's usually left up to the MT as we can set the pace, but it's still a party effort, which is why, at least on the main DC I play it's expected if you queue into DF that you know the content you're queuing into even if it's as little as research and realize you're on 3-23 other people's time.

It sucks but that seems to be what the community devolved into in MMOs these days.
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#57 Dec 21 2016 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:
That's why as much as people hate me saying it, that's one of the biggest differences I noticed in the DF scene between datacenters. There's just a general unfriendliness to new people. I'm not going to go out of my way to be "kind" when it's older content (even if its new to you for example) but I won't be an *** about things, however if the content existed for 2-3 years, I do expect some effort on your part to actually look up how to tank or how the tanking goes for x content. I understand if not comfortable with mass pulling and the like yet, however...especially on certain data centers, you'll have DPS or healer all too happy to "force" you into a mass pull since as per official forums, you're an "*******" if you let someone die because they choose to pull for you.

So more specifically, a newbie healer has just as much if not more placed on them if they land with certain types of tanks, because some tanks queuing into mentor roulette or their roulette for the day will mass pull even if the new healer may not be able to keep up. So it is true it's usually left up to the MT as we can set the pace, but it's still a party effort, which is why, at least on the main DC I play it's expected if you queue into DF that you know the content you're queuing into even if it's as little as research and realize you're on 3-23 other people's time.

It sucks but that seems to be what the community devolved into in MMOs these days.


I highly doubt there's a pull-by-pull guide of entire instances, and even if there were, I doubt I'd be able to remember the whole thing, and I doubt they want me alt-tabbing after each pull to look up a walkthrough for (insert dungeon here).

Tanks already have enough stuff to keep track of, trying to learn dungeon layouts with other people being impatient is an unnecessary extra burden. Maybe if people wouldn't be so impatient and rude, more people would be willing to tank unfamiliar content. Or at least, that's the way it seems from my eyes anyways.

But until then, they can enjoy their longer wait times because fewer people want to deal with the issues with being a tank.

I like tanking, I like the gameplay... I don't like the pressure from the people. I don't like being expected to know the layouts of dungeons before I even step in them, and I don't like being expected to pull up to THEIR pacing.

I'm the tank. I pull to MY pacing. I pull what I think I can handle.

But, people don't care, so I don't tank as often as I'd like to. I don't have the mood for it a lot of times. I'd rather Q up as WHM instead. Then I don't have to worry about a thing. If we get a bad tank, then I get player commendations for keeping everybody alive despite that fact, lol.

EDIT: I also am probably weird, but I believe a tank and a healer should watch each other for the first few pulls and get an idea of each other's skill and strength level. It's what I do -- when I'm a healer, I take mental note of how fast the tank takes damage, and based off of that, I formulate my strategy of how often I heal, and what heals I throw and how long I wait before starting to heal. If I'm a tank, if I see a healer casting Stone, Ruin, etc, then maybe its time to pull a few extra mobs.

But the first couple pulls are always cautious until I get a feel for how this is gonna go.

Edited, Dec 21st 2016 6:01pm by Lyrailis
#58 Dec 22 2016 at 10:10 AM Rating: Default
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Lyrailis wrote:

I highly doubt there's a pull-by-pull guide of entire instances, and even if there were, I doubt I'd be able to remember the whole thing, and I doubt they want me alt-tabbing after each pull to look up a walkthrough for (insert dungeon here)


There's a few actually, it's just as content gets outdated they fade into obscurity because people just default to "PULL ALL THE THINGS AND IGNORE MECHANICS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!"

So that's generally why people say at the least on older content to look up information since they existed for 1-3 years by now, so there's definitely information you can go into knowing at least the basics, it's also why (especially on aether I've noticed) people say go watch a video. Whether you want to or not is purely up to you, but that seems to be why a lot of unfriendliness happens due to having all the information available to you.

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Tanks already have enough stuff to keep track of, trying to learn dungeon layouts with other people being impatient is an unnecessary extra burden. Maybe if people wouldn't be so impatient and rude, more people would be willing to tank unfamiliar content. Or at least, that's the way it seems from my eyes anyways.


It's why I enjoy tanking because compared to DPS for example, you get to learn things a lot more intimately since most DPS mechanics tend to be "just don't get dead." meanwhile tanks may have to juggle an add or juggle certain mechanics that if left unchecked will kill off people.

Quote:
EDIT: I also am probably weird, but I believe a tank and a healer should watch each other for the first few pulls and get an idea of each other's skill and strength level. It's what I do -- when I'm a healer, I take mental note of how fast the tank takes damage, and based off of that, I formulate my strategy of how often I heal, and what heals I throw and how long I wait before starting to heal. If I'm a tank, if I see a healer casting Stone, Ruin, etc, then maybe its time to pull a few extra mobs.


This is generally a good idea, since for me personally I'll pull the usual "pulls" that SE designed to see how the healer and dps is, if the dps is amazing I'll pull more and if the healer isn't breaking a sweat i'll mass pull, otherwise if I notice the healer is improperly using MP (spamming medica II or constantly spamming cure II for example when not needed) i'll keep to small pulls, but if the dps is really slow i'll keep to small pulls as well, but if monsters are tipping over easily and you/your healer not breaking a sweat that's when it's time to speed up. Learning dungeons is always fun as a new tank, it just sucks when you get paired with people who want to go their pace new or not, so while I may get called an *** for letting a pulling dps die, that's on them, I don't know the dungeon yet, so I pull till I see what mechanics (if any) the monsters may have, because you do NOT want to mass pull and there's enemies who can slap vulnerability on you or pacification etc.

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#59 Dec 22 2016 at 12:05 PM Rating: Excellent
I actually usually START with a mass pull, because the vast majority of DF parties can handle it just fine. In the rare instances that DPS is slow, then I just burn all my cooldowns and get through it... doesn't really matter because we'll be pulling slow afterward and I don't need cooldowns ready if that's the case.

If the healer sucks, burning all my cooldowns usually gets us through the first pull too. If we die, we die, but that's super rare.
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#60 Dec 22 2016 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:


There's a few actually, it's just as content gets outdated they fade into obscurity because people just default to "PULL ALL THE THINGS AND IGNORE MECHANICS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!"

So that's generally why people say at the least on older content to look up information since they existed for 1-3 years by now, so there's definitely information you can go into knowing at least the basics, it's also why (especially on aether I've noticed) people say go watch a video. Whether you want to or not is purely up to you, but that seems to be why a lot of unfriendliness happens due to having all the information available to you.


There's still the problem of trying to cram all that information into your head, while only having seen it on a video and/or reading about it. Then you finally get into the dungeon and you're trying to remember what you saw and read, and dunno about you but I certainly don't want to be alt-tabbing between pulls to read to try and remember what I'd read before.

It's just easier to go as WHM and learn it that way. *shrugs* But then that's one less tank in the roulette, which means everybody has to wait longer.

EDIT: There's another thing I have to ask.... what is up with people circle-strafing around mobs? *sigh* Ran into a couple people doing that yesterday and it isn't the first time, either. It sucks even worse when the tank is doing it, because you never know which direction those cones are going to pop up when the mob decides to do something other than auto-attack, and it's distracting when you see people running around all over the place to keep up with the mob that's attacking the tank that's running around like a chicken with his head cut off.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2016 3:16pm by Lyrailis
#61 Dec 22 2016 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
EDIT: There's another thing I have to ask.... what is up with people circle-strafing around mobs? *sigh* Ran into a couple people doing that yesterday and it isn't the first time, either. It sucks even worse when the tank is doing it, because you never know which direction those cones are going to pop up when the mob decides to do something other than auto-attack, and it's distracting when you see people running around all over the place to keep up with the mob that's attacking the tank that's running around like a chicken with his head cut off.


As someone who's mained both MNK and NIN, this makes me want to commit felonies. Like... it's tricky enough for me to dance around the aoe cones and come out in the right positions every gcd without the tank spinning things in circles unnecessarily.

As to your other thing, yeah I feel the same way. I'll go into new content as either a dps or a healer. I simply won't tank something I've never seen before.
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#62 Dec 22 2016 at 3:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Honestly the only time I'd move mobs is if the group is so big that they start "pushing" each other so sometimes the monsters are readjusting themselves, but it annoys me to no end when tanks wiggle the monster around even when I'm running on BRD (especially in stuff like Sophia Ex) because the front facing acc is severely higher that at the start of a new even patch update, it's very likely you're no where near it so your DPS suffers dramatically, failed combos aside.
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#63 Dec 23 2016 at 3:29 AM Rating: Good
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Man, I remember when people thought dancing around mobs in XI made them miss more. That said, I suspect the strafe thing is a PvP mindset, either brought on by other MMOs where it's more of a thing, or gamers perhaps coming from FPS backgrounds. It's silly to see when no mechanics are at play, and it's even worse in games where jump canceling kills animations (and possibly rooting), too. Makes me wish continuous movement after a point in-combat would incur some sort of damage/accuracy penalty, or keeping stationary buffing the two. Of course, the "GOTTA MOVE FAST!!!" crowd would hate the **** out of it.
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#64 Dec 23 2016 at 4:12 AM Rating: Decent
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They do indeed hate it, which is why Gauss Barrel and Wanderer's ****** off MCH/BRDs despite upping your damage significantly by stance dancing appropriately.

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#65 Dec 23 2016 at 8:16 AM Rating: Good
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As I said in my FC the other night, I'm going with my initial guess about circle-strafing: I bet players who do this are former WoW players.

WoW is ridiculously picky about Line of Sight in its PvP and people are always circle-strafing each other to hopefully break Line of Sight on just enough attacks to get them the edge.

Any PvP battle between two melees in WoW looks like ret*rded children on pogosticks trying to hit each other because they are both circle-strafing each other and constantly jumping. I hear that XIV isn't so picky about LoS, which leads me to believe the behavior comes from WoW rather than XIV's PvP (that and I've never heard of XIV's PvP being popular, most people I've heard talk like it is this side thing that hardly anybody does, kinda like how XI's was).
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