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Deep Dungeon - Palace of the DeadFollow

#52 Jul 25 2016 at 1:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Where did I say I died? Hasty assumptions, I see. I simply didn't get enough aetherpool upgrades to let me pass to the second set of floors.


To be honest, I didn't even know the higher floors had gear requirements because I never ran into such an issue.
#53 Jul 25 2016 at 8:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Fynlar wrote:
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Where did I say I died? Hasty assumptions, I see. I simply didn't get enough aetherpool upgrades to let me pass to the second set of floors.


To be honest, I didn't even know the higher floors had gear requirements because I never ran into such an issue.


Yep, it's pretty silly. There's a good chance you'll never run into it, or you'll always run into it. Much like for upgrading to not be sync'd on 41-50 you need to be level 59 or 60 going into floor 41, but upgrades is still RNG.

Nothing sucks worse than popping 5 silver chests, at level 60, on floor 47 and have nothing upgrade.
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#54 Jul 25 2016 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Fynlar wrote:
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Where did I say I died? Hasty assumptions, I see. I simply didn't get enough aetherpool upgrades to let me pass to the second set of floors.


To be honest, I didn't even know the higher floors had gear requirements because I never ran into such an issue.


I already knew they did before I attempted it with a partial-made party (two people out of four). and we ended up getting it a lot during the first set. I never saw it again afterwards, but I still think it's stupid. And I find borderline insanity the fact that you have to repeat it millions of times just to get a weapon.
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#55 Jul 25 2016 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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Thing is, you aren't just getting a weapon, you're also getting a bunch of EXP or tomes, and credit toward either minions/mount or T5 materia.

If literally the only purpose of the content was to get to the i235 weapons, then yeah, it would be a tedious slog up until then.. However, I'm thoroughly enjoying the fact that three full POTD runs is all I need to concern myself with to cap lores for the week, freeing up the rest of my week from expert roulettes and whatever else I did to work on tomes.

Besides, if you weren't spamming this, you'd probably be spamming something else. Something else that more or less probably plays out exactly the same every time you run it, barring DF competency levels. At least POTD tries to produce a slightly different experience every time you run it, what with the layouts and chests and no role restrictions.
#56 Jul 25 2016 at 9:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah in a sense its similar.

I spent 30 minutes farming Nidhogg Ex and came out with tokens and a few weapons..whereas the past 2 hours of PoTD gave me...nothing. (it really doesn't benefit anyone with all 60s.)

Quite honestly though, the exp isn't terrible, but when you get down to it, people are doing it for the easy ilvl 235 if they have level 60 jobs which is why most if not all complaints are related to its progression including feedback on what they plan to change. As one of the more popular topics on the OF shows, people are starting to wipe out on floor 49 or even the boss so they can rerun that set of floors. Why miss out on that 600-800k exp bonus for leveling? So not saying you're wrong or anything, but it's kind of like saying people run weeping city for the tier V materia :p

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#57 Jul 25 2016 at 10:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I spent 30 minutes farming Nidhogg Ex and came out with tokens and a few weapons..whereas the past 2 hours of PoTD gave me...nothing. (it really doesn't benefit anyone with all 60s.)


Hey, I happen to like how POTD became my one-stop shop for tomes... something it wouldn't be if I wasn't going in as 60!

Plus I'm not cool enough to do Nid EX so this is pretty much my only way of getting i230+ weapons that isn't locked behind a one-per-seven-weeks Midan Gear system or an even more grindy anima questline.
#58 Jul 27 2016 at 11:11 AM Rating: Decent
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This sounds pretty cool.
You can go in at what levels?
Is it better to enter with a lower job than a 60?
Can this be done with Just Tesee and I?
Where do you get the aetherpool armor, i do not see it in the patch notes?
I am guessing this is not end game content?
Can you get any end game drops in here?
If you go in with two do you have to finish it with two?
Can anyone explain this better to me? We have not played much at all the last 6 months so a little lost now.



We finished patch 3.3 except we need to unlock the last dungeon?





Edited, Jul 27th 2016 1:19pm by Nashred
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#59 Jul 27 2016 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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You can go in at what levels?

IIRC the minimum level is 17.

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Is it better to enter with a lower job than a 60?

Depends. Going in at 60 gets you seals but going in pre-60 gets you exp similar to roulette. You can do it multiple times a day though so it's actually a pretty good way of getting exp, especially for DPS jobs because queues are so fast.

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Can this be done with Just Tesee and I?

Maybe. Depends on the jobs. You don't need a full party. It can even be done solo if you want. It's balanced around 4 people though, especially the higher level floors. Two people can definitely do the first few floor sets, especially if one of you is a healer. You might have trouble with the time limit on higher floors though.

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Where do you get the aetherpool armor, i do not see it in the patch notes?

Aetherpool armor isn't an actual set of armor. It's just a number. While the weapon looks different and can eventually be used outside of the dungeon, the armor is really just a stat.

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I am guessing this is not end game content?

Not really. You can get a i235 weapon and grade V materia out of it, but the content of itself isn't considered endgame.

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Can you get any end game drops in here?

If you get the weapon and armor to level 30 inside the dungeon you can then use the weapon outside as well. It's i235 so it's actually a pretty easy (if a bit time consuming) way to get a high level weapon.

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If you go in with two do you have to finish it with two?

I think so. IIRC if you go in solo or as a party (as opposed to with random people in DF) you have to continue with that same party. That said, you have two different "save slots" so if you want you can start a second run with randoms or a different party without losing your progress. You can also reset and restart from floor 1 without losing your weapon/armor upgrades.

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Can anyone explain this better to me? We have not played much at all the last 6 months so a little lost now.

Palace of the Dead is a 50 floor, randomly generated dungeon, with a boss and a checkpoint every 10 floors.

Levels inside the dungeon are completely separate from the rest of the game. When you first enter your levels are reset (temporarily) and you start at level 1. You level up and get all your abilities back as you go through the dungeon. Even if you go in pre-60 you'll still get access to all the class and job abilities at the appropriate levels. (e.g. a level 40 BLM will still learn the level 45, 50, 52, etc job abilities even without having done the quests.) However, if you go in as a class you won't automatically get the job at level 30. You'll be stuck as the class the whole way.

The other big thing is aetherpool weapon and armor levels. When you enter you're automatically equipped with a weapon and armor. As you progress you'll come across silver chests, which have a chance of upgrading one or the other. Weapon/armor progress is saved independently of your floor progress and is the same for all jobs. If you go in as a DRG and get your weapon to level 4 and then restart and go in again as a PLD, your weapon will still be level 4. Once you get both the weapon and armor to level 30, you can trade them in for an i235 weapon of your choice. Doing so resets your equipment back to level 0 but you can start over if you want another weapon.

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We finished patch 3.3 except we need to unlock the last dungeon?

Have you beaten and finished the quest for the level 50 Hullbreaker Isle? That may be a prerequisite.
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#60 Jul 27 2016 at 2:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Karlina thank you very much and it was very easy to understand.

I am WHM and Tesee is BRD.

I know we did the dungeon Hullbreaker isle many times.

Yea it is weird the quest is not open for either of us.

Edited, Jul 27th 2016 4:20pm by Nashred
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#61 Jul 27 2016 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
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IIRC the minimum level is 17.


I know it's required to have completed Copperbell Mines (which is a level 17 minimum quest) but do you still need to bring in a level 17+ class to POTD?

I know I took in my archer on my alt and I coulda sworn it was at 15 (job unlock reasons)
#62 Jul 27 2016 at 6:50 PM Rating: Good
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I think I read the minimum level to actually enter the content was 15.
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#63 Aug 04 2016 at 9:49 PM Rating: Good
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So I decided to take advantage of the free login campaign and see what's been happening.

Aside from the story, the coolest feature I've seen so far is definitely the Palace of the Dead.

As a concept.

The concept here is really cool. Separate progression system. Able to be used both on max level and leveling jobs and is relevant to both. Non-terrible reward for finishing the weapon. Randomly generated dungeons with fluid party roles. Awesome.

Unfortunately the weaknesses in the system show through pretty dramatically. My very first run through, I was stopped from going on because I hadn't found enough armor upgrade chests (we opened them all... +6 weapon, +0 armor at the end). That's ... pretty awful. The fact my party can do absolutely nothing wrong and still fail is a design flaw. Also the bosses seem like nothing more than save points with teeth. You don't really get anything for killing one... bunch of exp I guess, but that rains from the heavens throughout the dungeon. At the very least killing a boss should upgrade your weapon and armor guaranteed (assuming you're below the cap for the floor). Throwing in an item drop wouldn't be the worst thing in the world either, but having a guaranteed upgrade at least every 10 floors would be helpful.

My second run I went as AST (my highest leveling job to see the exp returns), that went much better. We killed the floor 30 boss, but during the entire 21-30 stretch we got no upgrade chests whatsoever, so we were unable to proceed after that. That should simply not be possible. The upgrades need to do a better job of existing in sufficient number to keep you going. Fighting through 30 floors and then having to reset back to level 1 because the boxes just didn't pop is really frustrating.

So I really like the concept. I really hate the implementation.
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#64 Aug 05 2016 at 4:32 AM Rating: Good
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The quest to unlock POTD starts in the Gridania Adventurers guild. I'm not sure about all of the prerequisites though. AFAIK, you have to be 17 to unlock, but then can go in with any level character.
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#65 Aug 05 2016 at 2:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
but during the entire 21-30 stretch we got no upgrade chests whatsoever, so we were unable to proceed after that. That should simply not be possible. The upgrades need to do a better job of existing in sufficient number to keep you going. Fighting through 30 floors and then having to reset back to level 1 because the boxes just didn't pop is really frustrating.

So I really like the concept. I really hate the implementation.


Now amplify this by x100 when you were working on a weapon that's capped beyond floor 1-30 and you ONLY need floor 36-50 in order to get upgrades, and that's before the update that made it less head against wall.

Teneleven wrote:
The quest to unlock POTD starts in the Gridania Adventurers guild. I'm not sure about all of the prerequisites though. AFAIK, you have to be 17 to unlock, but then can go in with any level character.


Join a Grand Company and finish "Copper ****" iirc.
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#66 Aug 22 2016 at 9:54 PM Rating: Excellent
Finally had a chance to dig into Deep Dungeons over the past few days, and I actually really like it. It's a great way to mix up the usual tome grind with an experience that's different than standard dungeons.

That said, I enjoy it most when in unbalanced parties. Being in a group with three or four DPS and no healer is especially fun... people actually need to be careful and work together to move forward efficiently. I'm hopeful SE continues to evolve this concept... would be pretty cool if more dungeons went the procedural route, too.
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#67 Aug 23 2016 at 4:41 AM Rating: Good
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Yesterday, i cleared 30-40 and 40-50 with 3 BRD's 1DRG, and then 3 BRD's and a NIN. It was certainly exciting.
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#68 Nov 01 2016 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Alright so finished up PoTD update and even though as per usual I'll probably get railed on for saying some of this I'll explain why:

If you find 51-100 too difficult, especially with matched party, it honestly is a matter of "git gud", since a lot of people don't naturally have level 60 jobs I noticed (via party info and after finishing I see someone level up to 48 or 51 etc) so they don't understand the workings of dealing with certain kind of mechanics or job situations, e.g maximizing DPS so some bosses only seem harder than they are because of that, so it's not a bad thing, but if you don't know how the job works, add that with potentially someone else who doesn't know how to and it's going to be a lot rougher than it truly is. I see BRDs not using anything beyond level 50 skills, I never see songs, I never see paean going out I never see blunt arrows or debuffs being maintained. Not trying to sound elitist but, BRD at 60 lives by maintaining debuffs for a good chunk of their dps, which means not doing so you lose quite a bit. Doesn't matter TOO much in PoTD, but it is quite the difference between boss 3, 4 and 5 being insanely hard or manageable.

Now with that said, 2 bosses in particular are DPS races and 1 requires 2 very particular items or you'll have a very bad day.

To prevent spoilers, the final boss you need 2-3x Lust and 1-2x retribution (or whatever the Angel transformation is called), this is MOSTLY to make up for DPS loss if your dps is on the low side (adds pile up) but it also is needed in order to do suitable damage to said adds because eventually, he'll buff the adds and they'll one shot you pretty much.

Now, as this will sound 'elitist" you NEED a tank and healer for 2 of the bosses because they actually hit fairly hard and some mechanics hit anyone without defensive CDs very, very hard. Not to mention if you have adds on final boss going every which way it's not going to be pretty. So while any setup is obviously designed to work, a few of the bosses are questionable on how they thought you could properly do it without a healer or tank since potions are nice, but if you miss the dps check, gl recovering lol.

So if you do 51-100 in matched party, don't be surprised if you wipe quite a bit, people do seem to treat it as 1-50 and not realize everything is actually balanced around ilvl235 level 60, but obviously scaled due to no "stats" present but things can and will kill you pretty easily. So the content itself isn't hard so to speak (51-100) its VERY MUCH like 1-50, but with new music selection and layouts. unless you go in with friends, you might end up getting a lot of people who aren't used to level 60 gameplay, since 1-50 PoTD actually gives you a false sense of knowing how to handle things at 60 lol, since you can actually manage quite a bit of big pulls since not everything actually has mechanics beyond auto attack and maybe a sleep or usual AoE (i.e minotaurs)..but in the new phases, treating it as the earlier floor set will cost you dearly so it's gonna be awhile before that gets ingrained into people's minds who try to rush things.

Oh and don't listen to "don't kill what we don't need", yes it makes things faster but if you get chests drops, you NEED silver chest drops and you NEED lust/retribution pomas on 91-100, and some floors are actually 2-3 rooms big so you want to maximize everything if time allows.

As for 100+ haven't done yet due to the entry requirements being kind of dumb (I don't mind running with friends or solo but sometimes i want to run with some other friends if abc friends aren't on so I'd go to 123 to do things with etc and I can't do that with these floors.)



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#69 Nov 01 2016 at 8:17 PM Rating: Good
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So if you do 51-100 in matched party, don't be surprised if you wipe quite a bit, people do seem to treat it as 1-50 and not realize everything is actually balanced around ilvl235 level 60, but obviously scaled due to no "stats" present but things can and will kill you pretty easily.


So there are no stats in PotD, but the content is balanced around a particular item level... with no stats.... that doesn't make any sense.
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#70 Nov 02 2016 at 1:25 AM Rating: Good
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There is a self contained item system within PotD though where you ugrade weapon/armor up to a max of +99/99 so that is probably what Hio is talking about and what the different levels are balanced around. I mean I doubt anyone would be able to solo 1-100 with no upgrades, but I saw Mr Happy solo floors 60+ (before I just didn't watch more) with no issues at all on his MNK with upgrades he had gotten from getting to floor 130 or something (I don't know how/if they cap upgrades at certain levels so you might not be able to use the full 99/99 in floors 1-100, but even so the upgrades you can utilitze make a big difference)..

Edited, Nov 2nd 2016 3:29am by Belcrono
#71 Nov 02 2016 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Belcrono wrote:
There is a self contained item system within PotD though where you ugrade weapon/armor up to a max of +99/99 so that is probably what Hio is talking about and what the different levels are balanced around. I mean I doubt anyone would be able to solo 1-100 with no upgrades, but I saw Mr Happy solo floors 60+ (before I just didn't watch more) with no issues at all on his MNK with upgrades he had gotten from getting to floor 130 or something (I don't know how/if they cap upgrades at certain levels so you might not be able to use the full 99/99 in floors 1-100, but even so the upgrades you can utilitze make a big difference)..

Edited, Nov 2nd 2016 3:29am by Belcrono


This.

There are no stats (STR/DEX etc) but your +weapon/armor is what determines your strength. I have 10k hp on floor 95 (for example) with a +62/+64 setup versus the +40/+37 BRD who only had about 6.7k hp in my last matched party run.

If you were to put it on "outside" terms, they're balanced around ilvl235 which is how the devs define content strength, which is why if you treat it like floor 1-50, it'll end pretty badly especially if you get someone who naturally isn't level 60 or know the full extent of the job and what the abilities actually do (for example WHM never using asylum or assize or even know it exists..) Since PoTD 1-50 were designed on a balance as you start from level 1, but 51 you immediately start at level 60, so enemies/abilities are scaled up a lot higher to retrofit when we get our level 70 cap. So it's not bad once your gear level is higher since that's basically how you improve your stats, but people that treat it like its the earlier floor set is why it'll feel harder than it actually is comparatively speaking.

The higher floors (101-200) does indeed give you stronger upgrades (since there's no actual end reward for floor 200 comparatively speaking.) so if you're fresh you won't have the PotD stats to really efficiently do it.

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#72 Nov 02 2016 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
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There are no stats (STR/DEX etc) but your +weapon/armor is what determines your strength. I have 10k hp on floor 95 (for example) with a +62/+64 setup versus the +40/+37 BRD who only had about 6.7k hp in my last matched party run.


Yes that's fine, but when you try to convert it to the normal ilvl system it makes no sense because normal ilvl has no bearing on potd stats. That's all I was saying. If you want to say that the higher floors are balanced for higher aetherpool levels, that makes perfect sense.
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