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#102 Aug 09 2016 at 2:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah that's not Free to play, that's actually "Freemium". F2P is rarely locking things behind a paywall beyond "cheating" the system. For example you can run 10 dungeons a day but can pay $4 to recharge your "stamina" to do the dungeons again and so on. (Rare example since most F2P games have no limits like that these days.)

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#103 Aug 09 2016 at 7:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Avoid F2P MMOs like the plague. The only one I return to a few times a year is SWTOR, just cause I have an attachment to it and KOTOR in general. It's model and what the devs pay attention to these days is pure trash though.
#104 Aug 09 2016 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Not all F2P games are the devil. There are many models that don't funnel you toward a toll or some way to extract money. I also think that devs are realizing that you can give players most of your game for free and enough people will appreciate that to support it with funding.

I honestly feel like you'd do just as well or better giving away your game and asking for donations to develop future content than you would just selling each expansion. Since SE (in their own words) don't have to rely on investors and answer to shareholders, it would have made sense to me if XIV were F2P. Especially now considering you have to pay for things like retainers, mounts and minions, ect.
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#105 Aug 09 2016 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
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Belcrono wrote:
It is funny how these threads always turn into the exact same discussion every single time. Pretty sure we all "know" each others opinions well enough that we could write each others posts instead of our own at this point lol.


We should make it a forum game - provided all of us can stay in good enough humor to do so I'd think it'd be rather fun.

I'm inching my way back into a stable enough RL to be playing FFXIV more, and enjoying the catch-up mechanics. Balancing this with Destiny again helps keep me from burning out at any one particular thing. And as I've no desire to be 'current' rather than be 'passable' at any one of these, the weight of the hamster wheel on any one of these is much lifted.


Also, the definition of Endgame seems to be highly subjective among people. Some people in FFXI believe endgame to only be ilvl145+ content, where as many, including myself, believe it to be the wider span of events that can or cannot lead to the highest tier of difficulty.

FFXIV feels much the same sometimes in that respect. To me, the entirety of the ilvl grind past the character leveling point is endgame. It's what happens after the story ends.

Honestly, I'd be a lot more interested in Raiding if they mixed something like Deep Dungeon with the difficulty level and boss encounters of Alexander Story or just a tad harder. I feel like they both have what the other is missing in terms of things I desire. But I've got no motivation to try to do the Savage Raids. It just doesn't do it for me, the choreography is too drawn out. The fights are obscenely punishing, because they're obscenely predictable, and vice versa. I'd like a more forgivable, more randomized fight. As well as more actual exploration being done.

Also like the progression system in Deep Dungeon more. It somehow makes sense to me and fits with the 'raid gear is for raiding' argument I hear a lot. Well, if it's for raid gear, why not keep it there? And when you're done you get to take out the nice shiny glamour. The idea of independent progression really rubs me the right way.
#106 Aug 09 2016 at 5:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd like a more forgivable, more randomized fight.


Yes, and this approach also lends itself much better to more diverse itemization. Because there's no such thing as +10 to dodging.
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#107 Aug 09 2016 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Well, if it's for raid gear, why not keep it there? And when you're done you get to take out the nice shiny glamour. The idea of independent progression really rubs me the right way.


Largely because with Deep Dungeon for example, stats has no purpose in there and ilvl235 isn't really much in the grand scheme of things at this point in time raid wise. (that extra little boost in stats over a lore weapon will do nothing unless your lore weapon was trash lol.) But since it came at a time when a lot of people had nothing left to do since they staggered deep dungeon, it's definitely a good system for that purpose since it helps people level in the mean time.

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Also, the definition of Endgame seems to be highly subjective among people.


It's kind of subjective and kind of not, it depends on your personal interpretation. Per game design, end-game (especially in both FF MMOs) is content that happens at max level that's progression based. Every 50/60 trial/primal (HM/Extreme)/coil/savage is end-game content since at one point in time they were part of your progression and they were 1 step to the next before they absolutely destroyed that setup (Tomestone/CT/Primals worked together with gearing you for Coil and Coil was the ultimate goal for gear rather than everything being weird alternates of each other.)

So it really depends, since end-game in terms of MMOs have always been a set definition of content you do beyond the basics once you're at max level and tend to be event related. These days where MMOs are less structured and honestly not really caring about the game design much (let's be honest) the definition is blurred. Your example of XIs ilvl145+ content is true, because that's the only end-game for players who've been playing awhile. Someone ilvl119 with full JP and Superior 2 gear will not be spamming Sky or Sea for example in 2016's FFXI, though you COULD argue doing the high tier versions of Ark Angels, Avatars, Escha Sky, Vagary and the Dragons as some of it is still used heavily for catching up, but most of XI's 75 era end-game content is dust in the wind, you only really do it for nostalgia sake or if working on an RME.

So as I've always said, XIV's biggest weakness, is they don't care much about current players and rather focusing on potential players or players who cycle in and out which leads to the weird content imbalance we do got, which is fine but I don't think they'd get a 2x success following the same pattern as 2.x > 3.x like he hopes for 4.x (his whole "we won't change the formula" at E3.) This is why they need to go back to Coil being the standard, Savage being the alternate and Alliance based content/primals not being absolutely "optional" content since they tend to come at a time in 3.x where everyone's had ample time to get Eso gear (all you need if you're not doing savage) and Lore gear (you'll get this regardless.) That's why everyone liked Thordan/Sephirot/Nidhogg for progression because it was a halfstep that actually benefited everyone that actually bothered to learn it/spam it.

Honestly, that's why I said when they announced the "Story Mode/Savage Mode" I said it would be a waste, since the "Savage" mode is the version that comes first then they create the Story Mode around it. Instead, they should just go back to Coil difficulty and have it work as both Story and "difficult" content. I know most people here only have played on NA servers so they have the "must have static" ingrained into their minds, but honestly, you've heard very little if at all any complaints about being rewarded gear and story for their hard work (in a Final Fantasy game at that...) compared to the people who complained about wanting to experience the story without going through the content basically.

That's why everyone was cheering on Midas (Savage) being far better design, aside A6S, it was a lot closer to coil but still fairly ridiculous.


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#108 Aug 09 2016 at 6:55 PM Rating: Good
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Largely because with Deep Dungeon for example, stats has no purpose in there and ilvl235 isn't really much in the grand scheme of things at this point in time raid wise. (that extra little boost in stats over a lore weapon will do nothing unless your lore weapon was trash lol.)


Well it's also a lot easier to get than a Lore weapon. It doesn't really have to be better. It's nice if it is, but it's not necessary for the reward to be worthwhile.
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#109 Aug 16 2016 at 1:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Well we are done with ESO we just hate it and the costly FTP system. One of the thing that also frustrates up with FFXIV is the hybrid system. Anything in the store should be available in the game. Anyhow we are cancelling all out retainers and my account, We are keep Tesee main account in case we want to comeback and she does not loose her house. We plan on coming back every few months since most patches can be done in a couple days..


I picked up a lap top for Tesee for FFXI.

We wanted to get rid of the PS4's and use laptop for FFXIV and FFXI but the update locks up on FFXIV all the time and I cant get FFXIV installed. I have uninstalled and reinstalled, removed the update directories.

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#110 Aug 16 2016 at 2:04 PM Rating: Excellent
The i235 is highly valuable for my content static. A couple of members didn't yet have i230+ weapons, so this made an easier path for them to upgrade.
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#111 Aug 17 2016 at 7:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Tried to install FFXIV update on the laptop again last night, got about 75 percent and failed again.

Edited, Aug 17th 2016 9:52am by Nashred
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#112 Aug 17 2016 at 8:20 AM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
Tried to install FFXIV update on the laptop again last night, got about 75 percent and failed again.

Edited, Aug 17th 2016 9:52am by Nashred


Are you getting some kind of error message? Or is your laptop just kind of getting bored halfway through the install?

Have you tried the usual troubleshooting garbage like running the launcher in administrator mode and disabling any anti-virus you may have running?
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#113 Aug 17 2016 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Nashred wrote:
Tried to install FFXIV update on the laptop again last night, got about 75 percent and failed again.

Edited, Aug 17th 2016 9:52am by Nashred


Are you getting some kind of error message? Or is your laptop just kind of getting bored halfway through the install?

Have you tried the usual troubleshooting garbage like running the launcher in administrator mode and disabling any anti-virus you may have running?


I am getting a error. I can not remember the error, it's something like Unable to download patch files. Then when I hit ok it completely exists the game.


I have deleted and reinstalled. I removed the two directories for updates. I turned off all sleep items like monitor hard drive.
I disabled antivirus and firewall. It is so random, last night it almost made it. Works fine on my other laptop... I have tried wired and wireless.




Edited, Aug 17th 2016 2:51pm by Nashred
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#114 Aug 17 2016 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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Small note. From my phone so bear with me.

The concept of value in ilvl gear is an illusion. The player base is andhas always been treading water with stats and enemy power creep. Making the concept of progression pretty much moot.

You could have a passive performance boost to all content of same and older patch be applied asa reward and achieve nearly the exact same end. So I don't really see how independent progression can be in any way harmful.
#115 Aug 17 2016 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
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I am getting a error. I can not remember the error, it's something like Unable to download patch files. Then when I hit ok it completely exists the game.


I have deleted and reinstalled. I removed the two directories for updates. I turned off all sleep items like monitor hard drive.
I disabled antivirus and firewall. It is so random, last night it almost made it. Works fine on my other laptop... I have tried wired and wireless.


Sounds like your connection is dropping mid-download, even if only for a moment (it doesn't take much to send the FFXIV client into panic mode).

I wonder if there's a more forgiving way you could download the client data (something that doesn't just kill itself when it encounters the slightest inconvenience). Maybe a torrent?
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#116 Aug 19 2016 at 11:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
I am getting a error. I can not remember the error, it's something like Unable to download patch files. Then when I hit ok it completely exists the game.


I have deleted and reinstalled. I removed the two directories for updates. I turned off all sleep items like monitor hard drive.
I disabled antivirus and firewall. It is so random, last night it almost made it. Works fine on my other laptop... I have tried wired and wireless.


Sounds like your connection is dropping mid-download, even if only for a moment (it doesn't take much to send the FFXIV client into panic mode).

I wonder if there's a more forgiving way you could download the client data (something that doesn't just kill itself when it encounters the slightest inconvenience). Maybe a torrent?


Client is installed, It is on the updates.

I am going to try at work... What is weird is the other laptop is fine never had a issue d/l updates.

Edited, Aug 19th 2016 1:49pm by Nashred
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#117 Aug 25 2016 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Well been playing FFXI for a couple weeks now and we have no invite to a LS yet again..
The server is absolutely dead.
We are going to transfer to Asura it looks like.
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#118 Jan 10 2017 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Hey guys and gals how has it been going? Been a while since I have been here.
Tesee and I actually have not played FFXI or FFXIV in a long time. It has been a very long time since FFXIV.
Tesee and I just bought a house in real life so that has been taking us away from gaming. the last moth or so.
Almost moved in and should be by the end of January so back to gaming some..
Our original plan was to quit FFXIV and go back to FFXI to finish up what we have not, not to interested in new content yet for FFXI and maybe by then FFXIV would actually have some new content that was actually new content, not just rehashed dungeons and raids... We would come back every 3 or 4 months to stay caught up in FFXIV just in-case we ever wanted to come back, Most patches take a few days to do, so subbing in for month here and there should keep us caught up. Got together with a old friend that we played FFXI with for a very long time and came over to FFXIV with us during beta. He told us till nothing new really for FFXIV.. I thought I would eventually miss FFXIV more but really only miss the crafting.

Actually at the point where I forgot where I left off in FFXIV. Going to be hard to figure out where that is now.

FFXI I am actually excited to get back too but nothing like in the old days. The game has changed too much from what it used to be. Really sometimes I am sad playing it.
I wish they would do something to reguvinate the old areas like campaign. Make it useful for the new levels. Just so sad to see the areas I had so much fun in dead.

Sad to see Zam so dead on both FFXI and FFXIV forums. Most of the people I knew are gone.

Anyone know if Catwho is still playing?

Edited, Jan 10th 2017 12:15pm by Nashred
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#119 Jan 10 2017 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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So you're unhappy with FFXIV because they stick to their forumla. And you're unhappy with FFXI because they didn't stick to their formula.

I'm so confused. Is it possible that MMOs are simply not the kind of game you're looking for? There are a huge number of quality offline rpgs and other types of games. Just as a smattering of suggestions may I recommend:

- I Am Setsuna
- Stardew Valley
- Axiom Verge
- XCOM 2
- Rebel Galaxy

That should be a nice mix of genres to take a look at. There's bound to be something that appeals to you in there somewhere.
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#120 Jan 10 2017 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Anyone know if Catwho is still playing?


She still plays! I see her posting in the OFs.

I'm also trying to finish FFXI. I'm in a populated LS on the Lakshmi server (fortunately, one of my old friends and long-ago ZAMers still plays), but yeah, my server is pretty much dead as well. I think all of them are, except for Asura -- and I don't care enough about XI's progression to justify paying for a move and attempting to build my reputation in an entirely new community.

I'm just chipping away at the story missions. Once I finish SoA, then I'll knock out the rest of Rhapsodies and that will be that. It sucks, because FFXI's use of "wait until the next game day" walls always nullifies my erratic chunks of lengthy playtime.
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#121 Jan 10 2017 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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It sucks, because FFXI's use of "wait until the next game day" walls always nullifies my erratic chunks of lengthy playtime.


Used to be "wait until JP midnight." This is better than that as the next game day is max 1 hour away. I guess they couldn't just do away with the trigger entirely. Might be a limitation on their quest system, don't know.
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#122 Jan 10 2017 at 2:25 PM Rating: Excellent
The time gating wouldn't be so bad if I cared about grinding... I could just repeated Ambuscade or whatever it is people do nowadays while waiting for the timer. I just don't see the need to grind if the storyline is already finished. So now, when I do get to play XI, I'll just play until I hit a time gate and then switch to FFXIV.
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#123 Jan 11 2017 at 12:26 AM Rating: Good
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SoA being gated to coalition progress felt way worse than JP midnight. Yeah, the supply runs are easy to do, but it basically translates to needing like a week or more of mission refreshes to unlock the next story tiers per break. Really something they should've included in the RoV KIs since it also affects one's ability to make GEO or RUN mythic. :(

Anyway, yeah, the most bare bones definition of endgame should be what one does once they hit level cap. Most MMOs inevitably break this down into tiers, with stuff like dungeons or solo friendly content being the pre-tier to raiding, which then goes on to demand people need months of T1 raid loot to access T2 (when released), repeat for T3 with T2, and so on. This is where catch up mechanisms become important, or eventually you hit the point where a level cap increase is the wiser move to just completely reset everything.

My usual gripe for the endgame is too often it "ends" for people in that solo-friendly/pre-tier phase, and when catch up items are implemented, you're still relatively weaker and the issues that keeps one out of raids still go unaddressed without the alternative content.

Right now, I'd argue XI is in a pretty bad gear tier phase where that mix of dead servers and lacking party making tools is making it impossible for newcomers/returnees to really get anywhere at an acceptable pace because most everyone else is at/near the top-end and has no purpose to backtrack. Delve is no longer done, and that should've technically led into Skirmish, which is kinda sorta cheesed with Yorcia if you have gil to burn, but then that should've enabled Zi'tah, and then Ru'aun, and finally Reisenjima stuff. Ambuscade gear falls somewhere between Yorcia and Ru'aun most of the time, but you've got the catch 22 of PUG runs only really wanting people in Reisen tier stuff for the spam you need to complete the +1 sets in some form of timely manner. Upgrading AF/Relic/Empy stuff is costly, and to minimal benefit compared to Skirmish stuff. Omen is probably relatively out of reach for the fresher players, too, even if it still "limited" to AF upgrades for the moment.

In most other MMOs, XI would be at the point where a cap increase would probably be a good idea, but that's simply not going to happen because maintenance mode or people getting uppity about older gear getting outclasses with potentially easier acquisition paths. Stuff like the Abyssea sets from the 75-80 increase stand out as an example of that behavior.
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#124 Jan 11 2017 at 10:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
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Anyone know if Catwho is still playing?


She still plays! I see her posting in the OFs.

I'm also trying to finish FFXI. I'm in a populated LS on the Lakshmi server (fortunately, one of my old friends and long-ago ZAMers still plays), but yeah, my server is pretty much dead as well. I think all of them are, except for Asura -- and I don't care enough about XI's progression to justify paying for a move and attempting to build my reputation in an entirely new community.

I'm just chipping away at the story missions. Once I finish SoA, then I'll knock out the rest of Rhapsodies and that will be that. It sucks, because FFXI's use of "wait until the next game day" walls always nullifies my erratic chunks of lengthy playtime.


FFXI:
Yea we never completed Adoulin and we need the last fight for Rhapsodies, Got some A Moogle Kupo d'Etat to finsish, I think a few Treasures of Aht Urhgan for the last few summons.. Little suff like that I never finished.

I think we are going to change to Asura where there are more people. My server is too dead, there were a few people left I knew but now I never see them anymore ( I think they split when the consoles got dropped). Most left on our server seem to be mules and Japanese players. Allot of people I knew left when our server merged too.
I still talk to most of my old friends from FFXI and allot went too FFXIV for a bit but most do not play either game now. Weird how you make lasting friends in FFXI.

It is just hard to not see anyone. I like allot of the new content like riding different mounts, monster raising, Collecting trust but it really does not fill allot of time. Playing the game just to upgrade armor well than I should just play FFXIV. I think Tesee and I are still borderline hard core even though less hardcore than when we played FFXI back in the day. Neither game fills our time completely. We find we watch more TV and that is not us. Maybe we need to change servers for FFXIV too so there are a few people we know at least from Zam forums and just not take the game seriously and just play both till we finish completely FFXI and once we do just play FFXIV. FFXIV just was not fulfilling enough. FFXIV just feels like the old no brainier hack and slash games. Just needs something more than the same rotation and dodging. There just needs to be more to combat. I do not know maybe the MMO field has changed to much and it aint for us anymore. Just after so many years of filling our spare time with FFXI or FFXIV it feels strange.

Callinon wrote:
So you're unhappy with FFXIV because they stick to their forumla. And you're unhappy with FFXI because they didn't stick to their formula.
.


You know exactly what I mean. I love mmos and played FFXI for a very long time and anyone who still plays FFXI knows the game has changed the last year or so.



Edited, Jan 11th 2017 12:33pm by Nashred

Edited, Jan 11th 2017 12:35pm by Nashred
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#125 Jan 11 2017 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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You know exactly what I mean. I love mmos and played FFXI for a very long time and anyone who still plays FFXI knows the game has changed the last year or so.


Honestly man, I've been trying to figure out what you mean when you say things for years now. That's why I keep pressing you on it, because I don't understand what you want. You want FFXIV to do "something new" but have no earthly idea of what that means, or at least nothing you're willing to put into words. At the same time you want FFXI to stop doing new things and focus on years-old content. I don't think my confusion is unreasonable here.

I know FFXI has changed. I played it back in caveman times too; I've also played it recently, the difference is astonishing. But what you seem to be asking for is for SE to do new things right up until they hit on something you like and then to keep doing that afterwards and stop doing new things. Is that about right?
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#126 Jan 11 2017 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
In most other MMOs, XI would be at the point where a cap increase would probably be a good idea, but that's simply not going to happen because maintenance mode or people getting uppity about older gear getting outclasses with potentially easier acquisition paths.

I understand the reluctance to change in FFXI. Gear took so long to get and the 75 cap lasted so many years that it's hard to even think about having to replace [item-that-took-2-years-to-get]. The very concept of having years of work instantly obsoleted is terrifying. It has to be done occasionally, but that doesn't make it any less scary.
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