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#252 Feb 21 2017 at 2:29 AM Rating: Decent
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You must run with some trash tanks then. It's so easy to hold agro and tank in this game. The only challenge as a tank is memorizing more mechanics than the other guy.
#253 Feb 21 2017 at 9:01 AM Rating: Decent
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BrokenFox wrote:
You must run with some trash tanks then. It's so easy to hold agro and tank in this game. The only challenge as a tank is memorizing more mechanics than the other guy.


It's why I regret queuing anything on Aether as DRK because I end up doing the heavy lifting even with a better geared PLD around lol. When I run BRD it's like some tanks never heard of or know the concept of a DPS using an opener, even with Quelling Strikes, so you see (good) DPS end up as the tanks majority of the time and if for some dumb reason (no CD usage) a tank dies, you know it's more likely for a DPS to be a tank than sadly the WAR/DRK in other alliances, while you won't be using your enmity (aside WAR), you should still be next or very close to the MT in terms of enmity if you're actually doing something.

I think outside of savage the main challenge is not falling asleep because muscle memory literally takes you through most fights lol.
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#254 Feb 21 2017 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
Hio, are you going to buy Stormblood even though the formula is not changing?
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#255 Feb 21 2017 at 10:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Hio, are you going to buy Stormblood even though the formula is not changing?



We are having fun right now but have not played in like 6 months. Almost feels like this is the way the game is meant to be played. Takes no time to catch up.

Not sure Tes and I will or not at this point buy the expansion. When I even mentioned it to Tesee she was so disappointed to even hear of a expansion again.. She does not want to level everything again.

Very disappointed to hear they really are not adding anything, just amazing. I can feel the game faltering and I can see the excitement for the game dropping fast. I think it is a mistake not adding anything new at all.. You do not have to change the whole format just add something different. I have been reading the forums allot the last day or so on the new expansion and it seem more people are disappointed and allot more people have stopped defending the game. When Heavensward was coming the excitement was way higher.

Server seems way slower now that I am on and even though there is some new players not as many as there was 6 months ago when we left. I think this expansion may actually hurt the game. It may push a good bunch away who will not want to pay to continue. I think some players who left might come back but if they would have added something really new there could be a jump in players. I am just not sure this expansion will help, it may actually hurt. Nothing more than a map expansion and the same stuff you get monthly patches for content. Some may be excited about the new jobs.






Edited, Feb 21st 2017 11:28am by Nashred
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#256 Feb 21 2017 at 12:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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ou do not have to change the whole format just add something different. I have been reading the forums allot the last day or so on the new expansion and it seem more people are disappointed and allot more people have stopped defending the game.


You definitely can't judge the game's health by people complaining on the forums. People will always complain, and the complainers will always be louder than the folks who are happily playing.

And what do you mean, nothing new? We're getting red mage and Samurai! Hours of new storyline! More dungeons and raids! A new exploratory area that will probably be different than Diadem! And new maps to explore.

You're right, though -- FFXIV is not meant to be a game played in a hardcore style. If you want to sink long hours into this game, then you'd better be more of a casual player at heart, or it's going to drive you nuts. That's why I'm honestly curious as to whether Hio will keep playing. Logic would indicate that anyone unsatisfied with the game as it stands wouldn't want to spend another $40 (or whatever it is) on another block of content he/she won't be happy with. But we'll see!

I'm excited for the expansion to hit, as is everyone in my large and lively FC.

I'm telling you, Nash... transfer to Hyperion and join my FC. If you miss that FFXI feel of having a great group, my FC is outstanding.
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#257 Feb 21 2017 at 1:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
ou do not have to change the whole format just add something different. I have been reading the forums allot the last day or so on the new expansion and it seem more people are disappointed and allot more people have stopped defending the game.


You definitely can't judge the game's health by people complaining on the forums. People will always complain, and the complainers will always be louder than the folks who are happily playing.

And what do you mean, nothing new? We're getting red mage and Samurai! Hours of new storyline! More dungeons and raids! A new exploratory area that will probably be different than Diadem! And new maps to explore.

You're right, though -- FFXIV is not meant to be a game played in a hardcore style. If you want to sink long hours into this game, then you'd better be more of a casual player at heart, or it's going to drive you nuts. That's why I'm honestly curious as to whether Hio will keep playing. Logic would indicate that anyone unsatisfied with the game as it stands wouldn't want to spend another $40 (or whatever it is) on another block of content he/she won't be happy with. But we'll see!

I'm excited for the expansion to hit, as is everyone in my large and lively FC.

I'm telling you, Nash... transfer to Hyperion and join my FC. If you miss that FFXI feel of having a great group, my FC is outstanding.


i agree but I think you can tell some what when comparing time lines, when the majority has gone another way from what it was before.:
I am quoting someone else but this seems to be getting to be more and more.

Quote:
I think the jobs will be cool, hope the story is even more engaging than hw, but I know after that, its going to be the same end game tome grind.



I feel exactly the same as him, you even said it in the above quote same ole formula, so you know what I mean by something new. But my point is the above statement is the majority now.. It means people are getting board. The problem is if you are going to make it so easy to get to end game give the people something different to do.

Quote:

"They're disappointed in a stagnant design philosophy and a complete lack at any attempt at innovation


Quote:
I am excited for the new areas, terrified for the job changes, excited for the swimming, and disappointed both the jobs are DPS..
I just wish it wasnt going to be the same tombstone grind and relic grind.. and dungeon grind.


I mean this stuff is getting to be the norm and you used to get pounded to the ground for saying such a thing. I am hearing this in the game from allot of people. My friend who plays all the time says the same-thing. you see it allot in the ffxi forums now where people are going back to FFXI because they are sick of the same ole thing on FFXIV. Tomb grind has to go or some new battle system needs to be added for gear.

I really doubt we buy the expansion with nothing new being added. The story has been great and the main draw and is what keeps us coming back but most of the combat or what ever that goes with the missions makes you feel like a errand boy, Just not compelling.

I am sure we would have more fun with your group and we need to find a good group actually. Only issue is we split our time between 2 games. After we catch up on FFXIV we will go back to finish FFXI for a bit because FFXIV just does not provide enough for us. After a while we will come back to FFXIV to catch up again. I am not sure the expansion provides any new content for us for 60.00 maybe after it has been out a while and the price drops. Eventually we will quit ffxi either because it is over or we got everything done ( we are not that interested in end game right now on FFXI) Our feelings could change because FFXI is a shell of what it was too. We do not have much left to finish either. seriously could finish it in a month or two.

Also we have allot of gil and they limit how much you can transfer with.

edit:

Personally i would rather have them improve on what is existing or adding something new than a new expansion at this point.



Edited, Feb 21st 2017 2:56pm by Nashred
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#258 Feb 21 2017 at 1:49 PM Rating: Excellent
I still dabble in FFXI too, but I'm mainly just chipping away at the main story, then I'm out. I honestly don't get why anyone would want to keep playing that game, let alone "go back" to it. The new content for that game is... man, like drops of a trickle. How many times can you do slow-paced BCNM fights (grinding the same fight repeatedly for a month at a time in Ambuscade) before admitting that the game is pretty boring?

I hear Asura is kinda sorta populated, but dang... hard to complain about FFXIV toward the end of an expansion cycle and then say you'd rather be playing XI.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. But for me, XIV holds the edge on both content variety and liveliness.
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#259 Feb 21 2017 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
so you know what I mean by something new


...

Quote:
I feel exactly the same as him, you even said it in the above quote same ole formula, so you know what I mean by something new. But my point is the above statement is the majority now.. It means people are getting board.


I don't remember that study. If you're invoking a majority here (a thing you shouldn't do), can you cite some data so we can see for ourselves?

Quote:
I am hearing this in the game from allot of people. My friend who plays all the time says the same-thing. you see it allot in the ffxi forums now where people are going back to FFXI because they are sick of the same ole thing on FFXIV. Tomb grind has to go or some new battle system needs to be added for gear.


Currently you can get gear at endgame by:
1: Killing bosses that drop gear
2: Collecting fragments of gear from normal raids
3: Turning in currency for gear
4: Crafting/buying crafted gear
5: Grinding a deep dungeon for weapons
6: (Soon) Exploring The Diadem for gear

I can tell you that in WoW (still the most successful MMO) the ways you get gear at endgame are:
1: Kill bosses that drop gear
2: Craft/buy gear and then upgrade it
3: Do PvP for gear drops

I'm not familiar enough with FFXI's endgame to speak intelligently about it but I believe it's majority "turn thing in for gear" which is pretty much getting more boss drops. If I'm wrong about that please correct me, that's just my current understanding of FFXI's endgame.

So I'm confused here. It looks to me like FFXIV offers a variety of ways to obtain endgame gear.
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#260 Feb 21 2017 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
I still dabble in FFXI too, but I'm mainly just chipping away at the main story, then I'm out. I honestly don't get why anyone would want to keep playing that game, let alone "go back" to it. The new content for that game is... man, like drops of a trickle. How many times can you do slow-paced BCNM fights (grinding the same fight repeatedly for a month at a time in Ambuscade) before admitting that the game is pretty boring?

I hear Asura is kinda sorta populated, but dang... hard to complain about FFXIV toward the end of an expansion cycle and then say you'd rather be playing XI.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. But for me, XIV holds the edge on both content variety and liveliness.



I am not really defending FFXI, I did mention end game offers nothing for us. The game is a shell of its former self and is not nearly as fun. Everything before Rhapsodies is pretty cool though. Monster raising is still more creative than anything they have added to FFXIV. FFXIV still has story and that is pretty much it. I am back to FFXIV and every new dungeon is the same thing I have been doing since beta, they just are in a different package same as raids. Weapons and armor are the same tomb grind as ever. There has to be something other than tomes? I still do not get why there can not be good craft-able gear?

You know what would be fun for FFXIV? Magian trials, they may have been a grind but hey they were a different way of getting stuff. But you know what they would never work since everything is instanced. So that means your grind is going to be too run dungeons.

I think everything being instanced is the real killer for the game. it is whats stoping them from adding anything new.

hunts were a good attempt.







Edited, Feb 21st 2017 3:32pm by Nashred

Edited, Feb 21st 2017 3:32pm by Nashred
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#261 Feb 21 2017 at 2:37 PM Rating: Excellent
I'm not sure how Magian trials would realistically work in XIV's content structure. It worked in XI because the game didn't progress vertically, so you could literally grind away at a goal for a year or two, and the goalposts wouldn't move. That's just not the kind of game XIV is... the game is more about experiencing new content and beating new arena bosses rather than grinding toward long-term goals.

In fact, XIV doesn't have long-term goals -- which is one of the reasons why I've grown to enjoy it so much. You get a new set of short-term goals with every update. And if you miss something, that's fine. Just start again at the next update.
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#262 Feb 21 2017 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nashred wrote:
Personally i would rather have them improve on what is existing or adding something new than a new expansion at this point.

Isn't an expansion the definition of improving thing and adding something new?

The upcoming expansion is adding tons of new things. It's apparently not what you want, but then again we have no idea what you actually want.

Nashred wrote:
so you know what I mean by something new

Maybe the fact that you have to keep saying "you know what I mean" is an indicator that we don't actually know what you mean.

You keep saying you want something new but you never say what that is. I get that you don't want to run the same few dungeons and kill the same few bosses over and over (and that's not unreasonable) but what would you rather do instead?
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#263 Feb 21 2017 at 2:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Nash wants horizontal growth. And, to an extent, I'd love to see Yoshi-P find ways to go a bit horizontal within XIV's structure -- and why not? That just means more options for climbing the iLevel ladder, and that's always a good thing.

And he has delivered on that with Diadem, PoTD and -- coming in Stormblood -- the new exploratory area.

But Nash just seems to want an old-school horizontal game where you can literally spend years grinding away in certain content systems to work toward long-term goals, all while being accompanied by others enjoying the same kind of gameplay.

I just don't see that happening in the year 2017. Gamers have moved on, and I don't think most people want to go back to the days of grinding the same stuff for months/years to get single pieces of gear.

I'd rather look forward to a handful of new story missions, raids, dungeons and boss battles every few months.

Edited, Feb 21st 2017 12:50pm by Thayos
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#264 Feb 22 2017 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Nash wants horizontal growth. And, to an extent, I'd love to see Yoshi-P find ways to go a bit horizontal within XIV's structure -- and why not? That just means more options for climbing the iLevel ladder, and that's always a good thing.

And he has delivered on that with Diadem, PoTD and -- coming in Stormblood -- the new exploratory area.

But Nash just seems to want an old-school horizontal game where you can literally spend years grinding away in certain content systems to work toward long-term goals, all while being accompanied by others enjoying the same kind of gameplay.

I just don't see that happening in the year 2017. Gamers have moved on, and I don't think most people want to go back to the days of grinding the same stuff for months/years to get single pieces of gear.

I'd rather look forward to a handful of new story missions, raids, dungeons and boss battles every few months.

Edited, Feb 21st 2017 12:50pm by Thayos


Somewhat yea..
Your right some gamers do not want that but there are those that do or gamers who have the time. It does not need to be the only way and if you do not want to you do not have too.. I am just sick of grinding tomes. Why can there not be great craft-able gear too.

I have said so many times what I am looking for but a few people just have selective reading.

I am tired of scripted cookie cutter dungeons where every time you run them they are the same. Every dungeon is trash mobs with 3 bosses. Why are the bosses trapped? Would it be cool if they were in different orders or roamed there was a sense of danger and didn't know what was around the corner. Would it be cool if they mixed up their abilities so you had to react instead of memorizing the order.

Why can’t they add something new like in FFXI when they added campaign, Dynamis or besieged? They were completely different than anything else in the game. Let’s add 2 dungeons and then a raid then 2 more dungeons then a raid then 2 more dungeons then a raid then two more dungeons and a raid. Oh and lets throw some half *** attempted at something different like diadem that is horrible and it fails so we can say “hey look players really do not want nothing new”. Now we have a expansion that is doing the same old thing and same old formula just in a different look. This was fun the first 50 times.

Why can’t there be some open world stuff that gives the sense of danger.. World seems dead and everything is on a string. It does not feel real. World looks beautiful.

It makes no sense they throw out the relic, why not have continued paths for those who wanted to keep doing it. The animus weapon is now ending too, why?
Why not keep adding on to it and give it a little higher stat for those who want to work for it. Oh wait you could turn the relic in for one step ahead of the rest after you spent months upon months.

I get tired of everything being out dated every other month. Spend all this time running dungeons and once you get the gear time to start all over. I think running coil is what made me feel the worst. Bust your but in a static to get the gear and someone could just run a dungeon and have just as good of gear. Why not reward those for the extra effort? the game feels like it for those who want but do not want to put in the effort.


I just want multiple paths, I am sick of running cookie cutter dungeons they have got boring they are all the same just in a different package. Have gamers got that shallow, boring and lazy that they do not demand some variety and want everything handed to them. I sure hope not or gaming is going to die without something new.


While Thayos you know I respect you and your opinion I know lots of players who stay away from FFXIV because they are looking for what you say players do not want anymore. I agree it probably is the majority too but I think it was when FFXI launched and still it was successful.
I mean I know your right Thayos about allot of gamers I mean look at COD it has barely changed since launch. Basically every year they charge for a map pack upgrade and perk changes which basically are name changes with a different skins. When a new console launches it gets a graphics upgrade but year after year it has lines of people to buy it. Still it is not everybody. So while I agree I think it is enough to add something for those players.

I think enough gamers are out there that want more. I think FFXIV can have multiple paths and actually stick some money into some diversity.

When I say the expansion is not adding anything I mean new, sure it is adding content but it will be the same ole missions through the same ole dungeons and raids. Two new jobs etc. It is content but not different content. Other than story nothing will change it will be the same old stuff in a different package with a map pack. I love the story it is the best part of the game but playing through it I fell like a errand boy. I am the warrior of light.

This game does not lack content it lacks new original content or different content.



Thayos wrote:
Nash wants horizontal growth. And, to an extent, I'd love to see Yoshi-P find ways to go a bit horizontal within XIV's structure -- and why not? That just means more options for climbing the iLevel ladder, and that's always a good thing.


I agree with this 100 percent also, more options.

Thayos I do not think we are ever that far apart in our thinking. I think for you it you do not have or want to stick allot of time into the game. FFXI was completely the other way from FFXIV. It was very demanding almost too demanding. Tesee and I have a little more time and were hoping for something in between what FFXIV has become and FFXI. I think a game can accommodate that.
We left FFXI hoping for something that required a little less time so I am not necessarily looking for FFXI again. FFXIV just is so repetitive

Also do not get me wrong but two people keep saying I never say what I want different so I do not want this to come off like a complaint post. There is allot I do like but that was not asked, it was asked what I wanted different. That is part of what I want different. I think FFXIV has the potential to be far better than what it is maybe better than FFXI.. All the tools are there and I wont say it needs to change because allot of people like it the way it is but also something different for others is needed. It needs something added.

I loved the game from 0-50 but after running AK and WP for end game about 100 times each and end game got boring fast. At that point the game was new so we just racked it up to lack of content but here we are still years latter and that has not changed at all.










Edited, Feb 22nd 2017 12:30pm by Nashred
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#265 Feb 22 2017 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Thayos I do not think we are ever that far apart in our thinking. I think for you it you do not have or want to stick allot of time into the game. FFXI was completely the other way from FFXIV. It was very demanding almost too demanding.


Yeah, we're not too far apart. I'm not even too far from folks like Hio, both of our bluster aside. I'll always be a bit of a hardcore XI player at heart. My reality is just too different now, and there's no way I'd play a game that required that much of a time investment.

Given my situation, FFXIV is perfect. I can log in, have fun, level jobs, chat with my FC, help with fights, run a quick dungeon, run quick PvP... I can do all this stuff in my unpredictable pockets of free time. And meanwhile, I have just enough time to spend a couple hours on one night per week raiding with a static, and that allows me to at least take down extreme primals with a group that isn't a total waste of time.

The only content I don't do is savage-level raiding, but that's fine -- that's just a sliver of the content, and it's meant more for people like Hio who simply have more playtime and can make bigger commitments to the game. I'm cool with getting the "lite" experience through normal mode (and getting some cool intermediary/glamor gear in the process).

Meanwhile, the game looks and plays great. The world is well-designed. The storyline is as solid as one could expect from an MMORPG. Most of the dungeons, while same-ish, are interesting. It's a very easy, attractive game to play if I just want to relax after a 12-hour workday. Heck, every single time I even post about the game, I wish I could just be at home playing it.

FFXIV gives me tons of fun things to do without bending me over a barrel, and that's why I'm at peace with it.


Edited, Feb 22nd 2017 9:35am by Thayos
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#266 Feb 22 2017 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Thayos I do not think we are ever that far apart in our thinking. I think for you it you do not have or want to stick allot of time into the game. FFXI was completely the other way from FFXIV. It was very demanding almost too demanding.


Yeah, we're not too far apart. I'm not even too far from folks like Hio, both of our bluster aside. I'll always be a bit of a hardcore XI player at heart. My reality is just too different now, and there's no way I'd play a game that required that much of a time investment.

Given my situation, FFXIV is perfect. I can log in, have fun, level jobs, chat with my FC, help with fights, run a quick dungeon, run quick PvP... I can do all this stuff in my unpredictable pockets of free time. And meanwhile, I have just enough time to spend a couple hours on one night per week raiding with a static, and that allows me to at least take down extreme primals with a group that isn't a total waste of time.

The only content I don't do is savage-level raiding, but that's fine -- that's just a sliver of the content, and it's meant more for people like Hio who simply have more playtime and can make bigger commitments to the game. I'm cool with getting the "lite" experience through normal mode (and getting some cool intermediary/glamor gear in the process).

Meanwhile, the game looks and plays great. The world is well-designed. The storyline is as solid as one could expect from an MMORPG. Most of the dungeons, while same-ish, are interesting. It's a very easy, attractive game to play if I just want to relax after a 12-hour workday. Heck, every single time I even post about the game, I wish I could just be at home playing it.

FFXIV gives me tons of fun things to do without bending me over a barrel, and that's why I'm at peace with it.


Edited, Feb 22nd 2017 9:35am by Thayos


And that is fine for you, some people do not have the time and that is a plus for FFXIV. I mean Tesse and I have been playing for a little more than week and we have one patch to go and we missed almost 6 months. I-level has us slowed down a little now. It also stinks that we can catch up that fast to those who have put a lot of time into the game. I mean we can take 6 months off and in less than a month be exactly where everyone else is. That might be a little to much but it is a advantage for newbies or returning players. I just think they can add a little more for those who want to put in the grind and the time but to me the main problem is pure repetitiveness.



Change of subject.
Have you noticed on a wipe the person that gets angry and leaves is usually the problem?
Tesee and I have been doing allot of Alexander since we came back. Not together she has more time and is way ahead of me.
for example I am doing one for a weapon so I had to do it multiple times.
1st time we beat it no issues. Second time we get a warrior and he is telling the !st timer tank for that particular one what to do but being a blank about it. Anyway we wipe and the mouthy warrior leaves instantly and we wiped barely in. Anyhow no one seems to do Alexander right now so we wait 15 min for a new tank and no one shows so we decided to run it a tank down and the Smn titan was going to take adds. Well we crushed it.. That was so cool to beat it a tank down but my point is have you ever noticed the guy that gets angry and leaves is almost always the issue with the wipe? I have seen this at least 1/2 a dozen times now after someone leaves we beat it the next time.




Edited, Feb 22nd 2017 1:02pm by Nashred
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#267 Feb 22 2017 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
What Nash said.

While I agree with things like the world being pretty, but sterile (I'd love to see more non-FATE open world content), most of what you're asking for just isn't realistic for this game. Everything you say makes me think that what you really want is old-school FFXI. That's fine, but you must know by now that this game will NEVER give you that.

Like Thayos just said, XIV is game designed to be playable in short bursts. That means progress comes quickly, but is also fairly self contained and has to be reset periodically to keep things balanced. You may not like that, and that's a perfectly fine opinion to have, but that how the game works and it's unlikely to ever change drastically.

I guess I'm just confused by the fact that you keep complaining about things you know will never change.
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#268 Feb 22 2017 at 12:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Karlina wrote:
Quote:
What Nash said.

While I agree with things like the world being pretty, but sterile (I'd love to see more non-FATE open world content), most of what you're asking for just isn't realistic for this game. Everything you say makes me think that what you really want is old-school FFXI. That's fine, but you must know by now that this game will NEVER give you that.

Like Thayos just said, XIV is game designed to be playable in short bursts. That means progress comes quickly, but is also fairly self contained and has to be reset periodically to keep things balanced. You may not like that, and that's a perfectly fine opinion to have, but that how the game works and it's unlikely to ever change drastically.

I guess I'm just confused by the fact that you keep complaining about things you know will never change.



Again reading only part, I agree somethings wont happen but repetitiveness their is no need for it
You dont know if they will never change nor do I. There is no reason they cant add something like besieged why cant they?
Players start leaving because they are bored of the same old thing and they finally have to add something new to hold players, it may happen.


And your reply is exactly what I thought it would be and the reason I stopped saying what I wanted different.

This thread was meant to stay in touch with people and find out what they were doing and is going on the game and let people know what I am was doing. I did not turn this into this.


Edited, Feb 22nd 2017 1:10pm by Nashred

Edited, Feb 22nd 2017 1:13pm by Nashred
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#269 Feb 22 2017 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
It also stinks that we can catch up that fast to those who have put a lot of time into the game. I mean we can take 6 months off and in less than a month be exactly where everyone else is. That might be a little to much but it is a advantage for newbies or returning players.

How is that different from anything else?

Look at any professional sport. Last season's champion and last season's last place both start the next season equal again. Is that unfair to the winners?
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#270 Feb 22 2017 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
You dont know if they will never change nor do I. There is no reason they cant add something like besieged why cant they?
Players start leaving because they are bored of the same old thing and they finally have to add something new to hold players, it may happen.

I'm not saying things will never change. I'm saying things will probably never change as drastically as you'd like. They have added new and different things. Things like Diadem and PotD, and more coming in the expansion. That apparently isn't enough for you, but that doesn't make it not there.
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#271 Feb 22 2017 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Karlina wrote:
Nashred wrote:
It also stinks that we can catch up that fast to those who have put a lot of time into the game. I mean we can take 6 months off and in less than a month be exactly where everyone else is. That might be a little to much but it is a advantage for newbies or returning players.

How is that different from anything else?

Look at any professional sport. Last season's champion and last season's last place both start the next season equal again. Is that unfair to the winners?


You asked for what I wanted different I told you and it is my opinion plain and simple (it is my opinion). If you do not like it tuff and dont ask next time if you are only looking for a argument and think your opinion is the only one that matters. This why I didn't want to say it all over again and start a new argument.




Edited, Feb 22nd 2017 1:21pm by Nashred
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#272 Feb 22 2017 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Again reading only part, I agree somethings wont happen but repetitiveness their is no need for it


You just asked for Magian Trials, which are nothing more than long grind quests.

Quote:
There is no reason they cant add something like besieged why cant they?


What's different between Besieged and a FATE where a town is being attacked? Because we have a few of those now.

Quote:
And your reply is exactly what I thought it would be and the reason I stopped saying what I wanted different.


Ok but then you don't get to complain that people don't know what you're talking about when you refuse to elaborate. It isn't just me.

It really does sound like you're looking for old-school FFXI and FFXIV will simply never be that game. I also don't know of another game I can direct you toward that would scratch that itch for you. I do believe there's probably a market for a game in that style. But I don't think it's a very big market, and current trends dictate that any new game has to have wide-ranging appeal in order to be cost effective and profitable. That's not an ideal MMO market, but it's what currently exists.
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#273 Feb 22 2017 at 12:24 PM Rating: Decent
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And there is the second one, I knew it would not be long.

I asked for something like the magian trials. You do not like them fine I did. It filled my time.

Fates are not like besieged in my opinion more like Reives in FFXI again my opinion. Also how are fates new they have been there since Beta

You are arguing and attacking someone over their opinion and how they feel and one you asked for. I am not attacking you over yours, You think the game is fine that's ok. Everything can be improved on.

You know it is not the fact you disagree with me that is fine it is the way you go about it.










Edited, Feb 22nd 2017 1:44pm by Nashred
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#274 Feb 22 2017 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
i asked for something like the magian trials. You do not like them fine I did. It filled my time.


I didn't say I didn't like magian trials. I said they were long grind quests which seemed to be in contradiction to your statement that content need not be repetitive. I like the idea of magian trials in that you have a piece of gear that is grown over a long period of time. But then that's what we do for our relic weapons so.....

Quote:
Fates are not like besieged in my opinion more like Reives in FFXI again my opinion


I'm not familiar with Reive as a system having played very little Adoulin content in FFXI. But Besieged is an open-world event the spawns a bunch of mobs for you to fight. Now there's a LITTLE more depth to Besieged because of the Astral Candescence system but it still boils down to "bunch of bad guys, go kill" which is basically what a FATE is. Compare it to the FATE that simulates an attack on Hystmill or Forgotten Springs. Waves of mobs attack a settlement and have to be driven back by the players. That's Besieged. Now it's never done to a major city like Limsa or Ishgard, but I suspect that's to keep the event optional and keep it from being super disruptive to normal gameplay (and also as a nod to performance limitations rendering that many character models at once).

Quote:
You are arguing and attacking someone over their opinion and one you asked for it my opinion because it is not the same as your.. I am not attacking yours.


I'm not attacking you, Nash. I've never attacked you. Will I attack your ideas? Of course I will because that's how discussion works. Ultimately I'd like to be able to find you a game that will satisfy what you're looking for. But in the context of discussion about FFXIV, I'm going to keep coming back to "it's not that kind of game and never will be" because that's how it is. I believe I've mentioned that you don't seem happy playing FFXIV. But you keep playing it anyway which is reinforcing that negative perception of the game that's, frankly, unearned. You're seeing everything you don't like about the game magnified because you're not having a good time playing it. I get that, but then the solution isn't to ask FFXIV to be a completely different kind of game than it is, the solution is to find a game that fits with what you're looking for better. Off the top of my head I don't know of one, but if I ever run across a game I think you might enjoy, I'd be very happy to pass it along to you. My goal here isn't to attack you or to make you feel bad or stupid or whatever. That's petty. My goal is to have a discussion and to point you at the information you need. I'm sorry you're seeing that as an attack.
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#275 Feb 22 2017 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Callinon wrote:

I'm not attacking you, Nash. I've never attacked you. Will I attack your ideas? Of course I will because that's how discussion works.



You should not be attacking anything a attack is a attack.. It is childish way of discussing things period. The worst part is you asked me for my opinion, I knew I should have just left it alone. the worst part is when you say someone else opinion cant happen but present your opinion as fact.







Edited, Feb 22nd 2017 1:57pm by Nashred
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#276 Feb 22 2017 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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#277 Feb 22 2017 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
You are arguing and attacking someone over their opinion and how they feel and one you asked for.

I'm sorry you feel like you're being attacked, but that's honestly not my intent here. I was under the impression that were have having a discussion. We obviously disagree on this subject but it was never personal. Not for me at least.

Not everyone is going to agree with everything you say. If you can't handle the resulting discussion and/or argument then you probably shouldn't say it. Sorry if that sounds blunt or uncaring, but that's how the world works.
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#278 Feb 22 2017 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Karlina wrote:
Nashred wrote:
You are arguing and attacking someone over their opinion and how they feel and one you asked for.

I'm sorry you feel like you're being attacked, but that's honestly not my intent here. I was under the impression that were have having a discussion. We obviously disagree on this subject but it was never personal. Not for me at least.

Not everyone is going to agree with everything you say. If you can't handle the resulting discussion and/or argument then you probably shouldn't say it. Sorry if that sounds blunt or uncaring, but that's how the world works.



Quote:

I guess I'm just confused by the fact that you keep complaining about things you know will never change.


That is not discussing or arguing it is a jab at me especially when you asked what I wanted changed and then turn around and call it complaining. You guys asked.

Also the game not changing is your opinion and you are stating it as fact. You do not know they could add something or finally change the dungeons. they could eventually fire the whole design team they have done it before. If people did not state their opinion even though you call it wining or what ever we would still be on 1.0. Oh wait they totally change they game not just adding new stuff. If enough people feeel like they need to change the game or subscriptions fall they will.





Edited, Feb 22nd 2017 2:49pm by Nashred
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#279 Feb 22 2017 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
That is not discussing or arguing it is a jab at me especially when you asked what I wanted changed and then turn around and call it complaining. You guys asked.

It's not a personal jab. I called it complaining because that's how it sounds to me. Yes, that is my opinion, but that's how discussions and arguments work.

Nashred wrote:
Also the game not changing is your opinion and you are stating it as fact. You do not know they could add something or finally change the dungeons. they could eventually fire the whole design team they have done it before.

It's not an opinion or a fact. It's a guess. Just because I may be wrong doesn't mean I can't make predictions.

I didn't say things will never change. I said it's unlikely things ever will change in any major way that will satisfy you. I may end up being wrong, but that's an educated guess based on the last 3-4 years worth of game updates.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2017 2:12pm by Karlina
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#280 Feb 22 2017 at 2:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I bet you argue politics allot. You even used the word fact not opinion makes me think you meant fact. Who asks someone what they would like to see changed in the game and then turn around and call them a whiner for stating what you asked for.

I am done with this it is not going anywhere. If someone wants to discuss my points civil cool. If someone thinks that something else could be added or changed or something you like fine. I know some of it wont happen and maybe none of it will and maybe something different will come along who knows but maybe some of it will..

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#281 Feb 22 2017 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
You even used the word fact not opinion makes me think you meant fact.

Ah, OK. I'll concede and apologize for that one. I've been using the phrase "the fact that" in it's casual form, rather than implying a literal fact, but I can see how the tone could get lost over the internet. I didn't mean to imply that you were literally wrong or your opinion is invalid. I'll try to be more careful of that in the future.
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#282 Feb 22 2017 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
I bet you argue politics allot. You even used the word fact not opinion makes me think you meant fact. Who asks someone what they would like to see changed in the game and then turn around and call them a whiner for stating what you asked for.

I am done with this it is not going anywhere. If someone wants to discuss my points civil cool. If someone thinks that something else could be added or changed or something you like fine. I know some of it wont happen and maybe none of it will and maybe something different will come along who knows but maybe some of it will..



No one's attacking you. Stop being a baby.
#283 Feb 23 2017 at 4:13 AM Rating: Good
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#284 Feb 23 2017 at 8:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Hio, are you going to buy Stormblood even though the formula is not changing?


Nope. I receive review copies of SE/NIS/Falcom products for free though (including expansions for games.) Realistically the only thing about SB that interests me is seeing if it truly is yoshida holding back a lot of potential with this game or not since when you introduce guest developers into your project, you usually give them free reign within a set of parameters. So seeing if some content will actually evolve by having someone else behind the direction and design could be good, it can't get any worse beyond making things even easier than they need to be at this point lol.
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#285 Feb 23 2017 at 10:23 AM Rating: Excellent
So you do intend to keep playing, then, even though the formula isn't changing? Or is HW the end of the road for you?
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#286 Feb 23 2017 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
So you do intend to keep playing, then, even though the formula isn't changing? Or is HW the end of the road for you?


HW was already the end for me (like quite alot based on census data when the biggest dropoffs happened) but as it's easy to keep up in this game only really have to play twice a week unless I get called to help with something. But I don't feel like abandoning my FC on chocobo or friends I play with Balmung. Pretty much why the only interesting thing about SB is if a new direction on content (Omega) could be good for the game, since it's already guaranteed what "Return to Ivalice" will be and what "Eureka" will be like as yoshida already dropped the hint it'll be built around feedback gathered from Diadem 2.0.



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#287 Feb 23 2017 at 1:53 PM Rating: Excellent
So if you plan to keep playing, the HW wasn't the end of the road.

However, if the first new independently designed raid isn't substantially different than what the game offers now, then will that be the end of the road for you?
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#288 Feb 24 2017 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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As of now, I don't see the point of coming back. The fabled "battle changes" are still under wraps, and from what was gathered at the Frankfurt Fanfest, they won't show anything until May at earliest.

XIV is built to be played in short bursts, sure. But the tome grinding is too repetitive. I played four hours a week at maximum when the account was still active, and I got bored after a single dungeon run (or Alexander normal, or the trials, or the other activites, you get the point), just to get the tomes to have the ilevel to progress the story. As a "casual" player, it felt I was wasting my time. Mind you, I won't even get back to XI since it's clearly ancient in design at this point, and there's no point in enduring it without the story.

Plus, I got really annoyed when Yoshida basically said the Ascians will not be "featured" in SB (probably until they lay out the foundation for the next "arc" at least anyway). It means,at least for me, that this expansion, much like HW, risks being a gigantic sidequest, and I'm kind of tired of enduring XIV's sub-optimal writing and pacing (I can add for example, what was the point of the Warrior of Darkness in the end?), with the exception of Hildibrand's quests.
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#289 Feb 24 2017 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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xizro wrote:
XIV is built to be played in short bursts, sure. But the tome grinding is too repetitive. I played four hours a week at maximum when the account was still active, and I got bored after a single dungeon run (or Alexander normal, or the trials, or the other activites, you get the point), just to get the tomes to have the ilevel to progress the story. As a "casual" player, it felt I was wasting my time.

Based on your past posts I get the impression that what you really want is a single player game. That's not a bad thing, but considering that I really wonder why you play MMOs at all.

xizro wrote:
Plus, I got really annoyed when Yoshida basically said the Ascians will not be "featured" in SB (probably until they lay out the foundation for the next "arc" at least anyway). It means,at least for me, that this expansion, much like HW, risks being a gigantic sidequest

You're assuming that the Ascians are the main focus and everything else is fluff, but that's not necessarily true. Just because the Ascians are part of the overarching story doesn't make them inherently more important than anything else. Personally I'd be happy too see them go. I find the whole Ascian thing annoying and stupid anyway.
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#290 Feb 24 2017 at 4:19 PM Rating: Good
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Karlina wrote:

Based on your past posts I get the impression that what you really want is a single player game. That's not a bad thing, but considering that I really wonder why you play MMOs at all.


I had no problem playing XI's story despite all the hurdles it had and with only a slightly bigger time (around 8 hours per week), so that's not really the issue here. Logging on with an irregular schedule isn't a problem, the problem is the constant repetition which is aggravated by how much the fights are scripted and due to certain rotations which are supposed to be fixed in the expansion.

Quote:

You're assuming that the Ascians are the main focus and everything else is fluff, but that's not necessarily true. Just because the Ascians are part of the overarching story doesn't make them inherently more important than anything else. Personally I'd be happy too see them go. I find the whole Ascian thing annoying and stupid anyway.


There aren't the only thread, but simply the game has too many stories to follow, and the expansion will add even more, obviously. The Ul'dah's issues for example (still present as of HW's ending) aren't being explored again, as of now.


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#291 Feb 25 2017 at 5:52 PM Rating: Good
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I think you will find many offline games (and they are not necessary RPGs) to have fairly good stories as well if that is what you are after.

If there is one thing I suggest, don't try to seek excessive affirmation and confirmation from other folks when you feel you can make a decision on something that is an optional activity. Perhaps, you are taking gaming or the present discussion too seriously, or perhaps you need a change of direction what you may try. Try play another game, or try some other activity (like I enjoy travelling and reading). Hobbies are not work or getting married or child care, it is all optional. Relax, do whatever you want, and I think you will find my happiness that way :-).
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#292 Feb 26 2017 at 2:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Karlina wrote:
You're assuming that the Ascians are the main focus and everything else is fluff, but that's not necessarily true. Just because the Ascians are part of the overarching story doesn't make them inherently more important than anything else. Personally I'd be happy too see them go. I find the whole Ascian thing annoying and stupid anyway.


Well..if you actually follow XIV's storyline you'll know 99% of the story is literally "because Ascians." They somehow even had a hand in the Dragonsong War and I'll not be surprised if they're the reason War of the Magi even happened at this point.

****, they probably ******* built Garlemald and each ruler was a disguised Ascian. We'll probably find out by 4.3 that Cid is actually a product of a human and ascian having a baby..half joking but I'm not even kidding, that's how deeply tied into the storyline Ascians are.

Everything else realistically is fluff until we get to the "the ascians did it" part of the storyline. So in terms of XIV's current writing? It does make them important and probably the most important part of the storyline, simply because SE has to make "two" versions of it (Legacy/2.x players) and in 1.x, Ascians were just a mysterious threat that didn't get the chance to get touched upon.

Quote:
Based on your past posts I get the impression that what you really want is a single player game. That's not a bad thing, but considering that I really wonder why you play MMOs at all.


Tbh, this is what most people seemingly want for FFXIV, since any suggestion to put more weight towards community aspect tends to get shot down or "this game isn't for you." At least in certain communities.

Edited, Feb 26th 2017 12:27am by Theonehio
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#293 Feb 26 2017 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:


Tbh, this is what most people seemingly want for FFXIV, since any suggestion to put more weight towards community aspect tends to get shot down or "this game isn't for you." At least in certain communities.



In all honesty, the game needs community features (the ones present are lacking), though since most MMO's communities are horrible (XI included), that wouldn't change things much.

Edited, Feb 26th 2017 11:34pm by xizro
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#294 Feb 26 2017 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Tbh, this is what most people seemingly want for FFXIV, since any suggestion to put more weight towards community aspect tends to get shot down or "this game isn't for you." At least in certain communities.


To be fair here most of the ideas I see for improving "community interaction" all involve making a party mandatory for something asinine like leveling up. The times when the community has had to come together on the features we've got now have also been less than stellar (hi, hunts... how are you). People want more community engagement and that's super except when it comes to actually implementing something when it all falls apart.
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#295 Feb 26 2017 at 6:15 PM Rating: Decent
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After I finish RoV I'll be done with FFXI for a while, if not forever. I just enjoy being in Vana'Diel, leveling jobs and doing quests and stuff. A lot of it is nostalgia based but that's not a bad thing. I also don't pretend that FFXI isn't a heavily dated/flawed game.

Edited, Feb 26th 2017 9:44pm by BrokenFox
#296 Feb 27 2017 at 10:49 AM Rating: Decent
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xizro wrote:
Karlina wrote:

Based on your past posts I get the impression that what you really want is a single player game. That's not a bad thing, but considering that I really wonder why you play MMOs at all.


I had no problem playing XI's story despite all the hurdles it had and with only a slightly bigger time (around 8 hours per week), so that's not really the issue here. Logging on with an irregular schedule isn't a problem, the problem is the constant repetition which is aggravated by how much the fights are scripted and due to certain rotations which are supposed to be fixed in the expansion.

Quote:

You're assuming that the Ascians are the main focus and everything else is fluff, but that's not necessarily true. Just because the Ascians are part of the overarching story doesn't make them inherently more important than anything else. Personally I'd be happy too see them go. I find the whole Ascian thing annoying and stupid anyway.


There aren't the only thread, but simply the game has too many stories to follow, and the expansion will add even more, obviously. The Ul'dah's issues for example (still present as of HW's ending) aren't being explored again, as of now.





People will argue everything you dislike about this game but one thing. It is in pretty much everyone's post that is unhappy or left the game. They will pick apart everything you say and totally ignore the real cause. It is the scripted battles and how repetitive tomes grinding is.. All the changes I talk about is minor to how boring Scripted battles and tome grinding is. IT IS SOO boring as ****. That it for me it is why I have a hard time sticking to the game.

I can already feel my self going: I do not need that last gear, I do not want to run expert duty finder again.. In FFXI I always wanted that one piece better gear even if it was +1 stat.

I left for six months almost and I finished up pretty much everything now in a couple of weeks. I have not done Alexander Savage and Hildy quest but Hildy will be done tonight.

I also have not opened Deep dungeon yet and I also need to open one more beast tribe.

Hildy is great even though it has gone down hill a little bit. They just seem to be sticking less time into them. This one reason I keep coming back too.


Another thing that could improve in this game is making food useful.. They do well for craters which use allot of food but not battle classes. I rarely see anyone take food before a dungeon. It would be such a plus to culinary.


Some of the fun is gone too for me because Tesee just aint into it this time and she was before. I think it is not having her house. Now yeasterday she was really upset again. She went and grabbed another retainer to put all her housing stuff on and found out they dumped her house stuff, All her event stuff is gone.. She was really bummed out.

Edited, Feb 27th 2017 11:55am by Nashred
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#297 Feb 27 2017 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
I left for six months almost and I finished up pretty much everything now in a couple of weeks.


You keep saying this, but I'm not really sure what you mean. Do you only mean you've cleared each new dungeon once?

Granted, I don't have tons of time to play -- and I'm definitely not hardcore -- but even with a once/week content static, I still haven't beaten Sephy Ex or Nidhogg Ex, or the newest extreme primal. And I haven't even touched savage, period. I also barely touch crafting or gathering, and there are many jobs I haven't leveled.

Also, you can get tomes by doing PoTD -- and it's fun going through there as jobs you wouldn't normally play -- so you should unlock that.

Honestly, the best way to play FFXIV is to NOT play it like FFXI. Sure, there's plenty of incentive to cap your tomes each week if you do more than the daily dungeons and normal-mode primals/raids... but if you don't do that stuff -- or if you don't do it often -- then why worry? Just do dungeons when you feel like it. Do frontlines when you feel like it. Do PoTD when you feel like it. Maybe do a Wonderous Tails book when you feel like it. Run a 24-man raid when you feel like it. This game offers so many ways to collect tomes, I don't understand why anyone would ever grind one thing so hard that he feels burned out -- unless your goal is playing this more hardcore like we used to play XI. And XI was waaaaaaaaaay more repetitive than XIV will ever be.
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#298 Feb 27 2017 at 3:22 PM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
And XI was waaaaaaaaaay more repetitive than XIV will ever be.


Only if you never touch a good chunk of this game's content.

Otherwise anyone who actually keeps up would argue XIV is far more repetitive than XI ever would or will be. Especially when you can't even properly help people because yoshi doesn't want players to gear out too quickly.
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#299 Feb 27 2017 at 4:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Only if you never touch a good chunk of this game's content.


I do all battle content in this game except for savage-level raiding, which is just a sliver of the available content.

So yes, I'm perfectly qualified to point out that FFXI is way more repetitive than XIV will ever be.
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Thayos Redblade
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#300 Feb 27 2017 at 4:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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5,678 posts
Theonehio wrote:
Thayos wrote:
And XI was waaaaaaaaaay more repetitive than XIV will ever be.

Only if you never touch a good chunk of this game's content.

That's only sort of true. They're equaly grindy just in different ways.

XI was a long term grind. It was VERY slow but it wasn't a big deal because the content stayed relevent for YEARS. Even when new events were added the old ones remained relevant. It never ended.

XIV is a much shorter grind but it resets every few months. In genreal it's the same thing over and over but at least the scenery changes preiodically.

One system isn't inherently better than the other, but they tend to appeal to different sets of people.
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#301 Feb 27 2017 at 7:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Karlina, your post is right on.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy though of folks who love XI, but then criticize XIV for being grindy, low on variety or too repetitive.

FFXIV is just a different kind of grind. You get new content every few months, and gear doesn't last long, so you're always resetting goals. But the scenery definitely changes, as do boss battles, as do primals, as do raids. And while some content definitely gets old (as happens in every single video game ever), every few months we get new things that feel fresh.

XI, on the other hand... we're talking about grinding sky for months/years. Grinding dynamis for months/years. Grinding (insert event X here) for months/years. Standing and doing nothing, campaign NMs and HNMs for years.

Killing crabs for years.

Granted, that was XI's prime -- not whatever it is FFXI has become.

Edited, Feb 27th 2017 5:52pm by Thayos
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Thayos Redblade
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