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#152 Jan 17 2017 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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If all the content in FFXIV were easy because youtube exists then you'd have a lot more people sitting on full savage clears because it'd just be a matter of spending 10 minutes on youtube and pushing a couple buttons, then all the gear gets mailed to you? Right?


I fully believe that's what Hio believes. Can't think of any other reason why she'd insist upon the things she does.

As for Nashred, I'm pretty sure he just wants FFXIV battles to be more like FFXI battles, which were predicated on certain mechanics but without following such rigid fight scripts. The key to winning a battle in XI wasn't learning from YouTube and then working to memorize a script -- rather, it was knowing mechanics and using your party setup to mitigate those mechanics. Ultimately, XIV simply comes down to beating a DPS check while surviving mechanics by moving to the correct spots on the battlefield.

Regardless, XIV's battles are fun when you get in a good group, and the fundamental elements of XIV will not be changing to be more like XI.
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#153 Jan 17 2017 at 3:29 PM Rating: Good
If there was literally no challenge to any of these fights, top FC's would not be spending hours upon hours trying to get world firsts. These are the hardcore of hardcore, and they can't simply walk into end game fights and get things done in 2 hours. Extreme fights, sure, probably goes down fairly quick, but overall I doubt it's within a couple hours.
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#154 Jan 18 2017 at 5:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Feel like anyone saying knowing what a mob does makes it easy also needs to play FFRK and do the highest difficulty fights without ever abusing restarts. RNG can nail you good for hours while some people will claim 1/1 EZ Mode. The former will be far more likely without question, and it's generally a single-player game.
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#155 Jan 18 2017 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
I think this is the issue with FFXIV. The game doesn't really test many people in terms of individual abilities. Rather, it trips you up because eight people need to execute a script almost flawlessly (over like 10-12 minutes) in order to win -- especially if you're in a group that barely meets the DPS requirement, because you can't afford to have people die thanks to the enrage timer.

A good example... when my static was learning Sophia Ex, we reached a point about three hours into our practice when all of us pretty much knew the fight. However, individuals would still make random mistakes, like getting knocked off a ledge or going to the wrong side of the platform. They totally knew what to do, but just had derp moments -- which is totally human and doesn't make one a "bad" player. If you try a fight eight times, and each run just one or two people make mistakes, then the group could easily fail while, at the same time, each person performed unquestionably well.

It's all about the group song and dance and the likelihood that SOMEONE will ***** something up while trying to execute the script. It's difficult, yes, but not on a personal level.
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#156 Jan 18 2017 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
Feel like anyone saying knowing what a mob does makes it easy also needs to play FFRK and do the highest difficulty fights without ever abusing restarts. RNG can nail you good for hours while some people will claim 1/1 EZ Mode. The former will be far more likely without question, and it's generally a single-player game.


Nope, I was able to find FFRK on Youtube. Therefore it's 100% easy mode. No challenge at all.

Dark Souls is also on Youtube....
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#157 Jan 20 2017 at 6:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Knowledge is nothing in these games without execution. Simply knowing which button to press at what time doesn't actually mean a **** unless you execute it. That's what the 'skill gap' is. It's the difference between players who consistently fail mechanics they know and players who consistently execute them. The bulk of the 'group responsibility' leans more toward preparation, strategy tweaking and communication.

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They totally knew what to do, but just had derp moments -- which is totally human and doesn't make one a "bad" player. If you try a fight eight times, and each run just one or two people make mistakes, then the group could easily fail while, at the same time, each person performed unquestionably well.


Execution. They knew what to do, but they didn't actually do it. No it doesn't make you a bad player unless you fail consistently. I

Especially when everyone is considering these encounters as 'song and dance', 'scripted', 'jumping rope' ect. It doesn't make you human if you consistently make mistakes doing something you 'know'. It makes you the person that is costing other filthy casuals their precious time. I believe the term is 'a$$#ol3' Smiley: nod
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#158 Jan 20 2017 at 8:53 AM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
The bulk of the 'group responsibility' leans more toward preparation, strategy tweaking and communication.


Exactly, not sure why people love to deny this though or shift it to "this is a static group mentality!"

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Simply knowing which button to press at what time doesn't actually mean a **** unless you execute it. That's what the 'skill gap' is. It's the difference between players who consistently fail mechanics they know and players who consistently execute them.


Sadly that's the biggest problem with general XIV playerbase - They don't even know how to hit the buttons and they refuse to learn it because they won't touch Sky,Sea etc training dummy. It doesn't teach you the content but if you're a DPS job, it teaches you your rotation because your goal is to get it down faster and faster in the time allotted.

It's literally the little things people can do to improve themselves. We all make mistakes but I bet people will say "In Dun Scaith Deathgaze is extremely hard because the mechanics are hard!"

Even though his main mechanic is literally not stand the portions of the deck that will cause auto death during Death IV and putting your back to a HUGE VERY VISIBLE BLOCK OF ICE to not get knocked off. Smiley: lol
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#159 Jan 22 2017 at 5:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's literally the little things people can do to improve themselves. We all make mistakes but I bet people will say "In Dun Scaith Deathgaze is extremely hard because the mechanics are hard!"

Even though his main mechanic is literally not stand the portions of the deck that will cause auto death during Death IV and putting your back to a HUGE VERY VISIBLE BLOCK OF ICE to not get knocked off. Smiley: lol


Again, I think you play in an alternate universe. Or maybe the Hyperion server cluster just has really skilled casual players. I did Dun Scaith my first time the other day, and after a wipe on the first boss, everyone did it right the second time through with extremely little explaining going on, and we cleared the rest easily.

That is the case with the vast majority of everything I've ever done in this game.
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#160 Jan 22 2017 at 5:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Again, I think you play in an alternate universe. Or maybe the Hyperion server cluster just has really skilled casual players. I did Dun Scaith my first time the other day, and after a wipe on the first boss, everyone did it right the second time through with extremely little explaining going on, and we cleared the rest easily.


My experience was similar doing it on day 1. Only about 4 of us figured out what the big ice walls were probably for on the first pull. But on the second pull only about 3 people still hadn't figured it out.
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#161 Jan 24 2017 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm addicted to the Feast now that the queue times are no longer 20+ minutes. Not crazy about the other modes though.
#162 Jan 25 2017 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
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If all the content in FFXIV were easy because youtube exists then you'd have a lot more people sitting on full savage clears because it'd just be a matter of spending 10 minutes on youtube and pushing a couple buttons, then all the gear gets mailed to you? Right?


I fully believe that's what Hio believes. Can't think of any other reason why she'd insist upon the things she does.

As for Nashred, I'm pretty sure he just wants FFXIV battles to be more like FFXI battles, which were predicated on certain mechanics but without following such rigid fight scripts. The key to winning a battle in XI wasn't learning from YouTube and then working to memorize a script -- rather, it was knowing mechanics and using your party setup to mitigate those mechanics. Ultimately, XIV simply comes down to beating a DPS check while surviving mechanics by moving to the correct spots on the battlefield.

Regardless, XIV's battles are fun when you get in a good group, and the fundamental elements of XIV will not be changing to be more like XI.


You know me pretty well.

It is like playing a game like duck hunt and the ducks always come out in the same place, eventually you learn the pattern and shoot before you even see them.. That is how FFXIV feels and yes memorizing is a skill but people know what I mean. Now you make the ducks come out faster it makes it a little harder and that is all FFXIV does to make a game harder. Now if the ducks come out at random it is a whole different game and requires a whole bunch of skill not just memorization. This is what I want.

I do not want them to be exactly like FFXI though either..

I just want to use abilities like stun that make a difference in how a fight works out. I would like to see elemental magic make a difference and other abilities vs just dps'ing and dodging your way through every fight.

I miss fights like early on Glaviod fight where s a skilled small party could take him down and a full party with a brew could still die.


I remember this fight in abyssea where a large group of black mages tried to burn it down and wiped on this mob. Tesee and I beat it with just a monk and whm using a strategy that took us 1.5 hrs to bring it down. It was the coolest thing ever, we had a huge crowd gathering and cheering us on but I think a few were there waiting for us to wipe to steal it. But the fight nearly wiped us several times and required us to adapt and change gear to like evasion gear to avoid certain moves. I miss having to strategize vs memorizing places to stand.

Every fight in FFXIV is no different and groups that beat the fight do it the same way every-time.



The fight are not hard they are just memorization game like simon says. For some memorizing probably is tough.

I would like some randomizing. A raid each boss opens with the same move it closes with the same move and does every move in the same order every time you enter. Why cant it randomize it moves? It would stop people from just memorizing a fight.

You know it was fun the first 6 month because it was different but how long has the game been out now and it has not changed anything.


I mean you memorize a fight and can be sped along by videos. Stand here, move here, now move, pull a switch now move here. Yea it takes time to learn the moves but it does not use any skill except memorization.It requires very little gaming skill. As long as you can memorize a progression you can get through anything in the game..
Trying to get enough people that have memorized the fight together is the hard thing.,




Edited, Jan 25th 2017 4:33pm by Nashred

Edited, Jan 25th 2017 4:35pm by Nashred

Edited, Jan 26th 2017 2:36pm by Nashred
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#163 Jan 27 2017 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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Can't say I miss hour+ long fights with a side of people hoping to vulture or sabotage your attempt. I mean, I feel like that's something even WoW learned over a decade ago by not really having critical HNMs in their open world. Of course, some would argue throwing a MNK+WHM duo at Abyssea content was EZ Mode in its own right, and I can't really disagree since Utsuemi and infinite Cure V spam via Atma are some of the most broken things to ever hit XI or MMOs in general.

Of course, my hatred of long kills lies more in people banishing RDMs to solo stuff "just because they could" or whatever other inane reason when a good group could've had most anything killed in under 15m or less.
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#164 Jan 28 2017 at 6:42 AM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
Of course, my hatred of long kills lies more in people banishing RDMs to solo stuff "just because they could" or whatever other inane reason when a good group could've had most anything killed in under 15m or less.

Sorry, but I can't really be sympathetic toward RDM when it doesn't even crack the top 3(personal opinion) jobs in XI that experienced difficulty accessing or being outright excluded from content.

I get that being the refresh ***** in order to get invites to content was probably not the desired style of play, but that was dictated by the game and not the community. If the content is difficult than players simply fall in line with easing that difficulty as much as possible via group composition. Too easy, players sway back toward the 'speedrun' mentality and just throw a handful of RNG or BLM at the problem.

That's going to happen in any game where you have players who are trying to optimize their time spent on content. It was especially prominent in XI mostly because the time required to complete most content was far above that of any more modern MMOs.


Edited, Jan 28th 2017 7:44am by FilthMcNasty
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#165 Jan 28 2017 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
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As a Tarutaru Dragoon during the LOL DRG era I have to agree with Filthy

edit: lol at that auto-replacement

Edited, Jan 28th 2017 11:26am by BrokenFox
#166 Jan 28 2017 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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Ha ha, seriously? loldrg still filters after all these years?
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#167 Jan 29 2017 at 3:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Only until it was replaced by lol pup. Smiley: sly

I see what you did there t(<.<t)

Edited, Jan 29th 2017 4:36am by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#168 Jan 29 2017 at 10:49 PM Rating: Good
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My earlier comment wasn't about RDM having it the worst or some degree of ******* contest between jobs. It was more a snipe at some people playing the game not as intended and then forcing that expectation on others.
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#169 Jan 30 2017 at 12:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
My earlier comment wasn't about RDM having it the worst or some degree of ******* contest between jobs. It was more a snipe at some people playing the game not as intended and then forcing that expectation on others.

I understood you. My point was that it wasn't forced by players, it was forced by the developers. Yes players will find 'meta' and gravitate toward that, but it's dictated by the tools you're given by developers, not what the majority of players say it should be.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#170 Jan 30 2017 at 2:56 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Seriha wrote:
My earlier comment wasn't about RDM having it the worst or some degree of ******* contest between jobs. It was more a snipe at some people playing the game not as intended and then forcing that expectation on others.
I understood you. My point was that it wasn't forced by players, it was forced by the developers. Yes players will find 'meta' and gravitate toward that, but it's dictated by the tools you're given by developers, not what the majority of players say it should be.

Are you kidding? Almost EVERYTHING we did in FFXI was decided by the players, rather than the developers. Between blink tanks, SMN healers, burn parties, chainspell>stun, etc, and even more basic things like EXPing on IT+ mobs, did we EVER play FFXI the way the devs intended? The developers may create the tools, but you can't always predict how the players will decide to use them. FFXI players were incredibly good at finding ways to completely break the intended game design.
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#171 Jan 30 2017 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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FFXI players were incredibly good at finding ways to completely break the intended game design.


Didn't help that we never knew what the intended game design WAS until like a year or two after the community had worked something out for itself.

I think Filth's point though was that even that behavior was on the developers because those were the tools they gave us.

They gave us a job that was capable of outright ignoring 3-4 hits... more with high evasion. Who WOULDN'T want that to tank for them?
They put Stun at DRK37, incidentally the exact level the subjob caps at when the level cap is 75.. RDM has Chainspell and stun-immunity isn't a thing so....

That's what he's saying (I think). The developers did those things. The players just noticed.
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#172 Jan 30 2017 at 11:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Well SE took away Tesee house, she is so upset.
Took us a little longer to move than expected and finally got all in saT so I loaded up the PS4 so she could log into her house. It also was the last thing she did before packing the PS4 away.They did not even give 100 percent of the money away. What is worse is she kept her subscription going even though we have not played in 3 months just to log into her house to keep it. All that work she did, I had to get up at 3:00 am to get it for her too.

SE is becoming a garbage company. They can fix a problem they created so they ***** a long time customer. Now she does not want to play any SE game.



Edited, Jan 30th 2017 1:20pm by Nashred
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#173 Jan 30 2017 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
What is worse is she kept her subscription going even though we have not played in 3 months just to log into her house to keep it.

Yeah. That's not cool. I'm OK with SE freeing up houses if people have been gone long enough (though the current time is still to short IMO), but the part where you actually have to enter the house is complete BS. As long as you have an active account you should be able to keep your house no matter what.
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#174 Jan 30 2017 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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Karlina wrote:
Nashred wrote:
What is worse is she kept her subscription going even though we have not played in 3 months just to log into her house to keep it.

Yeah. That's not cool. I'm OK with SE freeing up houses if people have been gone long enough (though the current time is still to short IMO), but the part where you actually have to enter the house is complete BS. As long as you have an active account you should be able to keep your house no matter what.


The idea is that housing space goes to people who are actually playing the game.

I may not love their solution here but a solution was needed and this one makes as much sense as any. The time limits were widely publicized among the community as well as the exact steps needed to maintain your house.
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#175 Jan 30 2017 at 3:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Karlina wrote:
Nashred wrote:
What is worse is she kept her subscription going even though we have not played in 3 months just to log into her house to keep it.

Yeah. That's not cool. I'm OK with SE freeing up houses if people have been gone long enough (though the current time is still to short IMO), but the part where you actually have to enter the house is complete BS. As long as you have an active account you should be able to keep your house no matter what.



Agreed it is way to short. We played all the way through beta too..
Just because we have not played in a while we still have more time in the game than most.

I mean intermediate patches take like 3 or 4 days to finish too.

Figured go back and finish the stuff on FFXI we wanted to finish and come back every few months to finish the FFXIV patches. We figured 3 patches could easily be finished in a month. Once done with FFXI we would re-evaluate FFXIV for full time.

Seems to me they have a limit on the time they hold on to the cash and furniture, that is the way it sounded.

all that time...

Edited, Jan 30th 2017 4:26pm by Nashred
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#176 Jan 30 2017 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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Callinon wrote:
The idea is that housing space goes to people who are actually playing the game.

Like I said, I'm OK with SE freeing up abandoned houses. However, I think that if you still have an active account and are still paying the subscription, you shouldn't lose your house just because you haven't logged in.
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