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#102 Aug 29 2016 at 6:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
And I'm not really undermining ****. I poke at the hornet's nest of the hardcores because they're a ridiculously sensitive bunch terrified of the casual boogeyman traipsing onto their turf.


See, "hardcore" players aren't sensitive. They're not the ones constantly saying they don't belong in the game or "this game doesn't need you or your kind" and other stuff like that. If anything "hardcore players" are the ones belittled the most. The only reason you'd see progression players "terrified" is because no one likes to see a game dumbed down continually to suit people rather than having said people improve, you know?

WHY is it such a bad thing to GET BETTER at a game you play or expect the players to improve as they go? This is a phenomenon only seen in the FFXIV community. Even the most casual MMO you can think of the players strive to get better rather than ask for the game to get easier. So it's fine to poke at the hornets nest, but realize it's not them that sensitivity, when you finally get challenging content, how fast is it nerfed or how often do you hear:

"This isn't accessible to your playerbase, only 0.5-1% of your players can even do this content" despite parsing Sephirot Ex weapons shows no less than 52700 people have at least 1 seph weapon obtained. If the playerbase is "500k" active that means 10.5% of the playerbase obtained a seph weapon.... And yes, people do say "ex primals are inaccessible." So while 10% is low, it doesn't account for the people who cleared it and got no drops or the people who turn in/break down primal weapons. So I understand what you get at with the "poking" but when you think about it, "casual" players aren't the ones that get brushed aside or ridiculed.

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Training dummies, as Hio brought up, don't teach you how to play well. They just sit there and accept damage. If players are supposed to be learning specific rotations we come to consider standard, then the game needs to be teaching that itself. And if you can't pass a specific task relative to that knowledge, then certain content should remain locked.


They don't - But they do teach you your rotation. Sky, Sea, Stone or whatever has a set HP% based on the balance for your job for that specific content. If you cannot destroy it in the time allocated, your rotation is terrible. If you go from not being able to destroy it to destroying it as you improve your rotation...

CONGRATULATIONS!

You learned how to DPS on your job. They don't teach you the mechanics, however, you learn how to maximize your DPS while dealing with mechanics, but you have to take the first step and actually learn how to play the job you're on first. I said it before but I'll say again, if you're doing less DPS than me as an actual DPS job, you're doing something horribly wrong.

Common response?

"you're hardcore"
"you're an elitist"

Rather...the fact I do 1200+ DPS on DRK kind of simply says I just know how to play. A game designed around ilvl and soft dps checks (every content has it) is very easy to maximize. If you don't care to maximize, more power to you, but realize:

the 'sensitive" ones you're talking about are elitist more so than hardcore players.

I don't give two ***** if you want that ilvl240 piece with boring stats, this game has boring itemization. However, if you're going to toss challenging content or only 1 set of end-game content (based by definition) every 6-7 months..make the rewards worthwhile if you're just going to hand out better/same gear at the same time. For example obsoleting Nidhogg Ex with EXTREMELY casual content in the same patch. That should never happen. I don't even care that it's an alternate, it's the fact they literally obsoleted a set of content.

This game needs more content, not less lol.
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#103 Aug 29 2016 at 8:36 AM Rating: Excellent
Hio, being called a hardcore player isn't an insult, at least not when I point it out. Same as when I say certain people might be happier in other games. That isn't an attack. It's a logical conclusion. You shouldn't take that as a put-down.

Edited, Aug 29th 2016 7:37am by Thayos
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#104 Aug 29 2016 at 5:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Hio, being called a hardcore player isn't an insult, at least not when I point it out. Same as when I say certain people might be happier in other games. That isn't an attack. It's a logical conclusion. You shouldn't take that as a put-down.

Edited, Aug 29th 2016 7:37am by Thayos


I always figured the logical conclusion was to hope and push for SE to improve the game (and by improve doesn't mean get rid of hard content or continue to make it worthless to do), since that's all people ever did during the XI and prime DQX days instead of telling people they shouldn't be here, but times have indeed changed, it wasn't viewed as 'weird' or 'bad' to hope to see players improve rather than cry until SE makes everything faceroll.

I don't see it as an "insult" it's more the context that it seems "hardcore players" are simply just tagged as such because they actually do this game's content. It's not like people are saying go low man Vagary or VD Shadow Lord + 3 Beastmen King fight (good ******* luck lol), that would make you hardcore and honestly, amazing. We're talking about content that you can master if you take the time to learn it rather than brush it off because you can...die...in it or find it punishing because you mess up...mechanics...rather than being able to shrug off every mechanic. I mean go into Shiva Ex Or Ramuh Ex or any older mid 2.x content that isn't coil and notice how people just gives no ***** about mechanics and powers through everything lol. At least it's what I seen when I'm working on my alt on NA datacenter, so while you are much stronger now than you were before..the fact people largely push to ignore mechanics (that can still wipe you, btw) kind of shows what people truly prefer. Savage isn't for everyone, but even saying going back to coil difficulty gets met with "NO!"

Even Yoshida said it himself, it's largely the people who go for World First that are the main ones clearing the harder content because most people who raid, did coil and went into Savage Alexander expecting to be able to at least do it..boy were we wrong. When the ONLY thing a top JP raid group can say when they hit A3S was "Fu*k" you know something is wrong.

As for being happy in other games...no MMO is designed for longevity these days, they're designed for short term profit gain. If it survives, cool! Good chance their main profit comes from a cash shop though.



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#105 Aug 29 2016 at 7:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Part of the problem is the presumption that everyone's play environment is the same. Someone can't do a particular piece of content? It's totally their fault. These are the types of hardcores I rib at, because the refusal to accept why certain things aren't working is just perpetuating all the bad. Not everyone has an awesome guild/linkshell with enough bodies to reliably tackle a certain piece of content (repeatedly). Not everyone happens to play the in-demand classes, which may allow some wiggle room in personal skill/gear. Not everyone's life affords them the ability to set aside multiple nights a week exclusively and without risk of interruption.

Yet, we're just supposed to accept that they'll have to settle for a lesser experience. I'm sorry if me trying to point out the flaws in the system is undermining the devs, but it just seems like genre is paralyzed because change is scary or the few people who like it now might get their feelings hurt. I'm not terribly fond of relating this all to various social movements across history, as it downplays their own severity, but there are parallels to be drawn. Refusal to acknowledge problems, downplaying the plight of the affected, blaming for factors outside their control, the sky falling if the norm is tweaked, and just a general ignorance of the situation at large.

I have no issue with good players who also play a lot and are understanding about it all. Realistically, it's pretty rare to see them piping up on either side of the issue, perhaps in fear of alienating their peers. MMOs being what they are, though, it's also difficult to unite these like-minded players due to how server structure tends to play out. And when you factor in things like lockouts and RNG/grind, it's not surprising they don't help others as much as they'd really like. As I've said before, how games are designed will influence how we play them. MMO design has turned some people into real a-holes, or at least brought it out of them through the power of anonymity.
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#106 Aug 29 2016 at 9:41 PM Rating: Excellent
Two words: Wife aggro.
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#107 Aug 29 2016 at 10:41 PM Rating: Good
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Stop being so noob Thayos and put her in the kitchen where she belongs. :(
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#108 Aug 29 2016 at 11:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Ha ha. You laugh, but growing up no one would ever have eaten anything if my mother and I weren't around to cook.

True story: One time years ago when I was still living at home with my parent and my brother, my mother left town for a week or two on business. During that time I worked late one day and didn't get home from work til like 9pm. I asked if there was any dinner left and my father and brother just kind of stared at me because they hadn't eaten anything.
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#109 Aug 30 2016 at 12:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Stop being so noob Thayos and put her in the kitchen where she belongs. :(


Ha yeah, because this would go over so well!

Seriously, though, this is the kind of thing that Hio never thinks about. When you have family -- whether that's one spouse and/or multiple kids -- then you can't guarantee the same set hours to play video games each night. Even if you -think- you're free, it all depends on whether your loved ones need you when they get home.

And that's just one thing that comes up.

This whole ongoing argument is stupid, because obviously responsible adults with families and full-time jobs can't guarantee specific weekly video game schedules -- which is why static raid parties are becoming a thing of the past.

Edited, Aug 30th 2016 7:15am by Thayos

Edited, Aug 30th 2016 7:16am by Thayos
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#110 Aug 30 2016 at 12:48 AM Rating: Decent
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SE really needs to just add that third tier already. The execution that players are consistently failing to execute in XIV happens far more in WoW, but I don't feel like XIV's content is nearly as difficult. I think people could be happy with a hardmode on training wheels tier in XIV.

Actually, I think we should kill XIV. If you really think about what SE did with XI since XIV was in the picture, it would make sense. You'd get easy currency farming, you'd get abyssea style gearing/leveling areas and you'd get updated versions of old content. People would stop blaming progression, but still suck. I would come back for that.



Edited, Aug 30th 2016 3:10am by FilthMcNasty
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#111 Aug 30 2016 at 1:49 AM Rating: Good
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Ha yeah, because this would go over so well!

The sad thing is there are people who genuinely think like that and just telling your SO to eff off or consistently put off various RL things will end all a-ok. I mean, we can point to the hilariously ironic log-in message about XI here, and while it means well, the culture just grew to ignore it.

I had "fun" explaining why I don't use voice chat programs to people the other day. My folks are creeping ever-deeper into the elderly/handicapped side of the spectrum, which inevitably fuels my unpredictability of access. Can't wear a headset because I won't be able to hear them. Can't really have anything loud going on for the same reason. What it really boiled down to was some being too lazy to simply type "/sea all linkshell" and be like, "Hey, wanna do something?" in chat. Because I do catch various groups just up and doing something saying they used voice to organize it even though I'd been sitting in-game for hours. Then they go on to complain I'm not as-geared, so can't really help, inviting the whole catch 22 of what Filth brought up earlier about people demanding achievement links. Those without aren't going to improve if you keep excluding them.
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#112 Aug 30 2016 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
I'm not as-geared, so can't really help, inviting the whole catch 22 of what Filth brought up earlier about people demanding achievement links. Those without aren't going to improve if you keep excluding them.

Proving grounds in WoW served as a substitute for players who hadn't yet raided but could still hold their own. IIRC SE was planning on adding(or already added) content similar to that. If there were some achievement or reward for the more difficult challenges it could serve as proof of performance.

Regarding voice... I'm in the same boat caring for old folks so I rarely call raids, but I'm always listening even if it is only one of my ears. I feel like things unravel more times than not in difficult content. The ability to call out adjustments to your strategy on the fly is all but necessary these days; especially when you consider that encounters are designed with that kind of efficiency in mind.

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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#113 Aug 30 2016 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Stop being so noob Thayos and put her in the kitchen where she belongs. :(


Ha yeah, because this would go over so well!

Seriously, though, this is the kind of thing that Hio never thinks about. When you have family


< Currently taking care of cancer ridden mother, hence why I'm even in america to begin with and can do only so few work projects while here. So it's not that I "don't think about it", it's because you hear every excuse in the book as to why people "aren't good." So trust me, I know full well how hectic play environments can be, but I also know this game in particular is designed for short play sessions, including end-game content, since the longest time you spend ever on content is learning it, then once you learn it and get an efficient flow going you tend to blow through content like nothing.

Or do we not remember farming ex primals for weapons and accessories and how battles tend to last only minutes?

Quote:
which is why static raid parties are becoming a thing of the past.


Which is why statics are largely a concept on NA/EU servers because that simply seems to be the culture. XIV's content base doesn't really require such, it just circles right back around to the game not pushing players to get better as they progress, so actual progression content tend to "require" a static.
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#114 Aug 30 2016 at 4:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Or do we not remember farming ex primals for weapons and accessories and how battles tend to last only minutes?


I don't buy that it's purely a cultural thing, because even on JP servers completion rates for various types of content are quite low. But to reference this quote, it might shock you that most players are never able to farm these battles because they're not able to learn the fights -- and that's a direct result of not having a good environment to do so. Part of that is the pressure to join statics because PF groups are so terribly inefficient (and sometimes downright hostile/exclusionary to people who need help).

So, no, I don't remember farming ex primals for weapons and accessories. I've never had that privilege. Even with my static, I don't have that privilege. The next primal on our list is Sephy Ex, and we've had members too busy over the past month to do anything but Weeping City or Aquapolis.

I'm still holding out hope that SE diversifies endgame and gives the game's actual playerbase more realistic endgame content.
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#115 Aug 30 2016 at 4:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
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Or do we not remember farming ex primals for weapons and accessories and how battles tend to last only minutes?


I don't buy that it's purely a cultural thing, because even on JP servers completion rates for various types of content are quite low.


It's low because, as I've explained and as any actual raider would explain to you:

Most people that raided in 2.x, stopped touching XIV's raid content when we all hit the A3S wall. All it takes is a look at the Coil completion rates pre and post echo and compare it to pre and post echo alexander savage. not only did the playerbase siginificantly dip, but people didn't bother touching it again after that BS with the difficulty spike. 1 and 2 were no problems, you see the LARGEST drop off once 3 hits then even higher when 4 hits.

The same happened with Midas, 5 and 6 has the highest completion rates, 7 wall (it's not THAT hard but still a wall) then 8.

So using your words:

Quote:
it might shock you


That people just simply didn't want to bother with it and it has nothing to do with they "can't" clear it. Believe me, people can clear it, especially post echo, there's no reason to and Midas even less so and every catchup patch furthers negates the reason to do Savage alexander, unless SE pulls a 180 and realize "hey, maybe we should make better itemization!." This is why I said unless you actually raid you will honestly never know how things truly are. You can read as much as you want but until you're actually doing it, nothing becomes quite clear.

Quote:

So, no, I don't remember farming ex primals for weapons and accessories. I've never had that privilege. Even with my static, I don't have that privilege. The next primal on our list is Sephy Ex, and we've had members too busy over the past month to do anything but Weeping City or Aquapolis.


Which is why I feel it's just from speaking largely in your personal experience than observing the community. Because like I've said in the past, I don't just speak in terms of "what I do/don't do" I actually watch numbers. I actually do my own parsing. I record -everything- I do which is why I have a 2 TB HDD dedicated purely to XIV videos and logs from 2013 to now much like I have a 1 TB HDD dedicated to my XI and PSO2 stuff. So if you've never had that privilege, then I'm telling you now, that people farmed the **** out of EX primals, which is why if you miss the initial rush, good chance you "need" a static to do it because the "good players" for a lack of better term are usually done pretty quickly.

My only hope is they stop lying about no resources and money (the reports don't lie, which is why them talking about players I can see as a reason they want to be careful with resources) and go back to making content work with each other.

Also, as for the culture comment: NA culture is far less group (social) oriented in comparison to Japanese culture, which reflects heavily in MMOs, even Yoshida said it in the same interview you read, because it's expected that you pull your own weight even in a group setting, which is why JP DF is well known to be far better than NA DF because over on NA side, people have no trouble queuing up DF into content for blind runs whereas JP DF people expect if you queue you're there to clear it and you'd use PF for practicing. So what I was meaning was you always state "static this" "static that"..you never hear that being the "norm" when playing on a Japanese server (they exist but the simple PF/DF differences alone makes it a lot less necessary) which means it's clearly just different cultures since YOU (an NA player) constantly states that you need statics to do even EX primals and perusing the NA OF, many others state this as well.

So I'm not sure what's confusing about that, since the "logical conclusion" is it's mostly NA/EU players who feel you need statics for every content which gives the wrong idea about this game's content overall.

Edited, Aug 30th 2016 6:45pm by Theonehio
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#116 Aug 30 2016 at 8:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
[quote]I don't buy that it's purely a cultural thing, because even on JP servers completion rates for various types of content are quite low.

JP completion rate for raids wasn't high on it's own, but it was definitely high in comparison to NA/EU... as was their story completion rate. Cultural or coincidental, the reasons don't really matter. The facts are that JP players are actually willing to challenge more content. The bottom line is that NA/EU players clearly aren't as motivated as JP players, whatever the reason(s).

This forum isn't the only place where the stigma of requiring a static and a ton of time and patience is being perpetuated. The same cannot be said of JP so we're left to speculate, but it puts the developers in a unique situation. How(or even why) would SE shift resources into creating other similar content when players choose not to participate in the content they're already getting? Content they already expected and knew was coming.

Honestly it's kinda embarrassing to see people complain about how hard it is to get into raiding. If you don't like it then you don't like it. That's fine, but we make ourselves look like kids at the dinner table who take a few bites, complain about a bunch of things completely unrelated to how satisfying a meal is and expecting dessert...
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#117 Aug 30 2016 at 9:10 PM Rating: Decent
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And when you infer they're whining kids, of course they'll fight back.
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#118 Aug 30 2016 at 11:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly it's kinda embarrassing to see people complain about how hard it is to get into raiding.


Credible.
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#119 Aug 31 2016 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
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To be fair, it isn't hard to get into raiding at all, no matter the resistance this isn't FFXI. FFXIV was designed to be easy, it can't suddenly go from "this game is so accessible" to "this content is inaccessible to players." You literally only have to do a quest to two to access raid content in this game, the biggest requirement tend to be "complete storyline to x point" or "clear previous ex primal" which they later dropped due to complaints, not by the hardcore players or raiders or people already farming ex primals.

But by people who complained needing to clear Garuda > Titan > Ifrit > Leviathan > Ramuh Ex in order to access Shiva Ex, said people were indeed casual players. Which is why all ex primals after had no requirement of needing the 2.x primals cleared to acesss later ones, MAIN REASON Bismarck Ex was dead on arrival, because they didn't want to "wall" players from Ravana Ex.

Also, Final Coil overall completion rate pre Echo:

NA Average = 1.97%
EU Average = 1.91%
JP Average = 9.33%

Back when the player population per unofficial parse was around 770k. Breaking down the server averages, most NA/EU servers were sub 1% per server while JP servers were all 2-15%. That's just final coil, because no one cared to keep tally during Binding Coil and Second Coil aside SE, because the game was still fairly fresh and had hope. Then 3.0 happened and well, we seen that they're going to ride the same formula.

So unless JP version of FFXIV is completely different from the version NA/EU players play...then I'm not sure how it's too hard to get into raiding when the overall completion rate of JP servers shows otherwise. You're NEVER going to get extremely high completion rates because EVEN UNDER 40% OF PLAYERS DIDNT FINISH THE EXTREMELY ACCESSIBLE AND EASY STORYLINE TO BE READY FOR ISHGARD!

Since a common mantra around here is "think about players who xyz or only care for the story blah blah" and not even the majority of players did 2.55 because they were too busy wiping to Steps of Faith.

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#120 Aug 31 2016 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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FFXIV was designed to be easy, it can't suddenly go from "this game is so accessible" to "this content is inaccessible to players."


Most of the game is highly accessible. It's just the raiding that people struggle to get into either because they don't like it or their schedules don't allow them to progress efficiently.

When folks such as myself talk about how the game is accessible, we very clearly define that we're not talking about raiding.

And no, the ability to queue up for something in the DF doesn't make it accessible -- that isn't what any of us are talking about, and you should know that by now. To say that makes content accessible is like saying I have easy access to drive to New York because I have a car, money for gas and roads to get there (without thinking about other factors like needing a pet sitter, needing time off work, other commitments, etc.).

Edited, Aug 31st 2016 12:15pm by Thayos
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#121 Aug 31 2016 at 3:31 PM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
FFXIV was designed to be easy, it can't suddenly go from "this game is so accessible" to "this content is inaccessible to players."


Most of the game is highly accessible. It's just the raiding that people struggle to get into either because they don't like it


And that has nothing to do with accessibility. That's, as even yoshida stated, player choice. "Schedules" don't mean much when it's already been proven you don't "need" a static, raid content is like any other content in this game because once you learn the content, it's easy to do.

Sadly, yoshida confirmed 4.0 will keep the 3.0 format of "normal" and "savage", no "third tier" or "branched" content, "Savage" may be easier though.



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#122 Aug 31 2016 at 4:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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And that has nothing to do with accessibility.


Only it does.

Which is why they're keeping Normal Mode, because Yoshi recognizes that barely anyone does the hardcore version.

Yay for normal mode! And also, hopefully they make savage easier, too. My static might eventually do a raid that's on par with how coil was. (Fun fact, though, tonight we're doing coil to get wins for the several members who could never get wins back when coil was relevant.)

Edited, Aug 31st 2016 3:48pm by Thayos
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#123 Aug 31 2016 at 5:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
And when you infer they're whining kids, of course they'll fight back.

The analogy was framed the way it was because children don't have the option to go out and work to earn money to buy whatever food they want to eat. There is an expectation that while you're a child your parents will provide for you. It's not a jab at age or maturity.

I just don't like seeing all of the completely unrelated excuses as to why players 'cant' raid when in actuality they just choose not to. Just like there is a difference between complaining and whining, there is a difference between can't and won't.

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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#124 Aug 31 2016 at 5:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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I just don't like seeing all of the completely unrelated excuses as to why players 'cant' raid when in actuality they just choose not to.


Well obviously, people choose not to.

But that's being very liberal with the concept of choice; it's also being somewhat tone-deaf to how people actually want to spend their time in the game.

I mean, you're right that literally nothing is stopping people from raiding. We all have access to the Internet, the client, a mouse, keyboard (or gamepad) and the duty finder, raid finder, whatever.

So... why aren't more people raiding? And why are clear rates so abysmal?

You and Hio seem to be blaming this on players rather than developers for pushing a form of endgame that most people find to be 1) a waste of time without a static and 2) not fun. And you also seem to be giving a pass to SE for not being innovative and finding better ways to create a more inclusive form of endgame.

Once again, the data is on my side. So few people are raiding that the dev team is keeping the normal/savage split. They know that even "coil-level difficulty" isn't going to be appetizing for the bulk of the playerbase.

Seriously, it's time for this dev team to think outside the box regarding endgame. This is a fair, important criticism of this dev team, and I actually think it's kind of funny that you've chosen this as the one thing where you'll repeatedly stick up for SE.

Edited, Aug 31st 2016 4:41pm by Thayos
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#125 Aug 31 2016 at 8:58 PM Rating: Decent
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It's not surprising or funny. It's predictable really.

There are fundamental ideas which people will defend to the death regardless of what evidence is brought before them, and the motivation of doing so is simple: People defend what they enjoy, even if it is imperfect or upsetting them at the time. Because an uncertain dramatic change will always seem worse off than a idealized past experience, even if what you currently experience now only faintly resembles that.

Rather a rotting carcass hoping for a return to the 'good ole days' than leaping blindly into a future you may completely reject.

You'll see this sort of fandom happen in other FF games, defending titles from the detractors even if the criticism is valid, simply because they enjoy it enough otherwise.

Suffice to say, it's not that I don't think that Hio and Filthy are not entitled to their opinions - I just summarily dismiss that opinion as antiquated, and disagree that the notion improving upon a system that is fundamentally showing heavy fatigue across the boards is preferable compared to a complete breakdown and re-assembly of said systems while integrating many of the ideas that have given rise to some of the most popular games in other genres.

One of the best ways to win in a contest of well established front-runners is to not compete on their terms, but to take the chance and strike your own way.

In this case I think FFXIV is both well poised and capable of doing so by 5.0 - if they were to dismiss the surface level assertions of a shrinking interest base and look deep at what really attracts players of all kinds.
#126 Aug 31 2016 at 9:16 PM Rating: Decent
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4,172 posts
Thayos wrote:
You and Hio seem to be blaming this on players rather than developers for pushing a form of endgame that most people find to be 1) a waste of time without a static and 2) not fun. And you also seem to be giving a pass to SE for not being innovative and finding better ways to create a more inclusive form of endgame.

Who else fault would it be? A new player I can excuse, but you Thayos? You have been here for years. You've seen this game from it's initial concepts through it's changes. This really should come as no surprise to you.

Thayos wrote:
Seriously, it's time for this dev team to think outside the box regarding endgame. This is a fair, important criticism of this dev team, and I actually think it's kind of funny that you've chosen this as the one thing where you'll repeatedly stick up for SE.

Yoshi and his team can't even maintain standard development pace with a single facet endgame. Do you really expect them to be able to create and maintain alternative endgame?

I'm not sticking up for SE. I simply realize how incredibly short-sighted it is to expect more than what they can promise. I also didn't want XIV to become a mediocre copy of any other vertical progression MMO on the market, but it's become what they said it would so I can't really fault them for that.

If you were really concerned with how this game has evolved then you probably should have joined me on the boat all those years ago instead of taking up your shield in blind defense. Reap what you sow. I shouldn't, but I do pity you. I think that you actually realize that being critical of something is borne out of a desire to see something succeed, but I realize that it's probably too late now. Unless of course you're still waiting on that miracle patch...

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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
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