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#1 Sep 06 2017 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
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So has anyone watched this on Netflix yet? Watched it with my wife and son. Kind of silly, but fun. Feels a little like an infomercial for FFXIV. My wife actually wanted to log in and play after watching it.
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#2 Sep 07 2017 at 6:41 AM Rating: Good
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Exceptionally cheesy, occasionally feelsy, but also made me shake my fist at the screen a few times thinking, "THAT'S NOT HOW MMOS WORK!" But yes, I'd very much call it the world's longest commercial for a video game.
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#3 Sep 07 2017 at 6:42 AM Rating: Good
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Exceptionally cheesy, occasionally feelsy, but also made me shake my fist at the screen a few times thinking, "THAT'S NOT HOW MMOS WORK!" But yes, I'd very much call it the world's longest commercial for a video game.
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#4 Sep 07 2017 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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AngusX wrote:
So has anyone watched this on Netflix yet? Watched it with my wife and son. Kind of silly, but fun. Feels a little like an infomercial for FFXIV. My wife actually wanted to log in and play after watching it.


Of course that's what it is. And the fact your wife wanted to play the game afterward means Mission Accomplished.
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#5 Sep 07 2017 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
but also made me shake my fist at the screen a few times thinking, "THAT'S NOT HOW MMOS WORK!"

Really? I mean, I get that in a series where the game is made up (.hack, SoA, Log Horizon, etc have all made me say that at times) but you'd think it'd be a bit more realistic in a series based on a real game.
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#6 Sep 08 2017 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Karlina wrote:
Seriha wrote:
but also made me shake my fist at the screen a few times thinking, "THAT'S NOT HOW MMOS WORK!"

Really? I mean, I get that in a series where the game is made up (.hack, SoA, Log Horizon, etc have all made me say that at times) but you'd think it'd be a bit more realistic in a series based on a real game.


There's a point not long after the dad starts where he engages a treant outside Gridania. One of the son's guildmates was shadowing him, and the subsequent reaction was his dad was going to die. Knowing the game and this particular area, this player would've had to zone, sit through load times, run probably 30s or more to the inn, and then tell the group what's happening. Son would then run out of town, find his dad, and proceed to bumble over helping him before job changing/vanity swapping and jumping in to save the day.

Call me an *** for splitting hairs here, but he probably would've been dead before the guildmate finished zoning.

Otherwise, they super broadly generalized things like the fights against Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda while not even really trying to talk tactics about Twintania. And while some may assert the show is more a fanservice to RPers, as someone who does like to RP (though not in MMOs), I'd say it half-assed that aspect, too.

Then again, maybe I'm too American.
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#7 Sep 11 2017 at 8:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Karlina wrote:
Seriha wrote:
but also made me shake my fist at the screen a few times thinking, "THAT'S NOT HOW MMOS WORK!"

Really? I mean, I get that in a series where the game is made up (.hack, SoA, Log Horizon, etc have all made me say that at times) but you'd think it'd be a bit more realistic in a series based on a real game.


Ummm Id say .hack (Sign not Roots) was a very accurate portrayal on an MMO, and Log Horizon came kinda close too.

Now yeah SoA is NOTHING like an MMO
#8 Sep 11 2017 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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Log Horizon didn't do too badly in behaving like a full-dive mmo might behave. SAO.... maybe.... eh..... .hack, nope. I love .hack, but nope.
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#9 Sep 11 2017 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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I don't remember too many episodes where players insist the game is broken because other players won't do the quests for them.
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#10 Sep 11 2017 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Callinon wrote:
Log Horizon didn't do too badly in behaving like a full-dive mmo might behave. SAO.... maybe.... eh..... .hack, nope. I love .hack, but nope.



I mean it behaved like an MMO period behves not talkin full dive her.

Log Horizon and .hack//sign characters behaved 100% like MMO ones, it show cased trolling, showed that there are political aspects to an mmo community, showed that it was not always grinding/leveling and sometimes it was just simple social gathering (finely displayed by .hacks most talking than anything else), and still showed grinding, raiding, dungeon running.

Whereas SAO... if you never told anyone that anime was supposed to exist in an MMO.. theyd have no idea it wanst just some random shonen anime with zero mmo ties. I mean you rarely see stats or health bars, theres little to no indication its an MMO after the first few episodes, and dont get me started on how UN mmo like the combat system is, if MMOs played ANYTHING like SOA, point me in their direction cause I need to be playing THOSE NOW!!
#11 Sep 11 2017 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Callinon wrote:
Log Horizon didn't do too badly in behaving like a full-dive mmo might behave. SAO.... maybe.... eh..... .hack, nope. I love .hack, but nope.



I mean it behaved like an MMO period behves not talkin full dive her.

Log Horizon and .hack//sign characters behaved 100% like MMO ones, it show cased trolling, showed that there are political aspects to an mmo community, showed that it was not always grinding/leveling and sometimes it was just simple social gathering (finely displayed by .hacks most talking than anything else), and still showed grinding, raiding, dungeon running.

Whereas SAO... if you never told anyone that anime was supposed to exist in an MMO.. theyd have no idea it wanst just some random shonen anime with zero mmo ties. I mean you rarely see stats or health bars, theres little to no indication its an MMO after the first few episodes, and dont get me started on how UN mmo like the combat system is, if MMOs played ANYTHING like SOA, point me in their direction cause I need to be playing THOSE NOW!!
#12 Sep 11 2017 at 10:09 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Log Horizon and .hack//sign characters behaved 100% like MMO ones, it show cased trolling, showed that there are political aspects to an mmo community, showed that it was not always grinding/leveling and sometimes it was just simple social gathering (finely displayed by .hacks most talking than anything else), and still showed grinding, raiding, dungeon running.


The characters yes, the game no. Speaking specifically about .hack here as the Log Horizon game behaved pretty well. Remember that The World was not a full dive MMO. It had a headset and a hand controller. It didn't override the brain's inputs and outputs like SAO or Yggdrasil (Overlord). So right away we have suspension of disbelief issues here because you have a character who can't log out and all characters doing things they couldn't possibly accomplish with a controller as their means of input. And this was consistent through all the .hack series.
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#13 Sep 12 2017 at 6:07 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, that's what bothered me about .hack...

You can't log out? Why not, exactly?

It never portrayed the players as being connected to the computer via wires or something and for some weird reason the players go go comatose and their characters are still logged into the game world? Wut? Just flick the switch on the PC/Console, seriously.

I could understand it, if maybe they were in these stasis chambers and their brains were physically wired to the machines or something, but yeah. That anime never made sense to me.
#14 Sep 12 2017 at 6:08 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, that's what bothered me about .hack...

You can't log out? Why not, exactly?

It never portrayed the players as being connected to the computer via wires or something and for some weird reason the players go go comatose and their characters are still logged into the game world? Wut? Just flick the switch on the PC/Console, seriously.

I could understand it, if maybe they were in these stasis chambers and their brains were physically wired to the machines or something, but yeah. That anime never made sense to me.
#15 Sep 12 2017 at 7:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Callinon wrote:
Quote:
Log Horizon and .hack//sign characters behaved 100% like MMO ones, it show cased trolling, showed that there are political aspects to an mmo community, showed that it was not always grinding/leveling and sometimes it was just simple social gathering (finely displayed by .hacks most talking than anything else), and still showed grinding, raiding, dungeon running.


The characters yes, the game no. Speaking specifically about .hack here as the Log Horizon game behaved pretty well. Remember that The World was not a full dive MMO. It had a headset and a hand controller. It didn't override the brain's inputs and outputs like SAO or Yggdrasil (Overlord). So right away we have suspension of disbelief issues here because you have a character who can't log out and all characters doing things they couldn't possibly accomplish with a controller as their means of input. And this was consistent through all the .hack series.



I thought the discussion was about whether or not .hack anime world/game/characters behaved like a real mmo. Not whether or not the technology they used to play said games were portrayed realistically
#16 Sep 12 2017 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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Well, if the technology used to play said games was not portrayed realistically, then it stands to reason that by extension, the game portrayed in the anime would not really behave like an MMO in the sense we think of MMOs.

And when you really consider the .hack anime in general, especially if you've played the PS2 game based upon it, it would have made for a really lame bare-bones MMO if the PS2 game's gameplay is any indication of what .hack was supposed to be like to actually play.

I mean, yeah sure it has town hubs and it seems like everything happens in instanced content, kind alike Guild Wars or something, but... it seems very barebones. Even if you replaced the NPCs with human players, it still sounds like something that would be boring. Basically an instanced version of Diablo where you do nothing but kill junk to get levelups and loot.

I never saw the first .hack anime, but I did see that shorter one that came after it and I don't remember the anime itself making much mention of doing things like quests, crafting, raiding, or any of the other stuff we commonly do in MMOs.

So ya, .hack doesn't really seem like an actual believable MMO to begin with, then you add the weird coma junk ontop of it and.... I'd have to say, no. I don't think .hack presents a reasonable picture of what an MMO is like.
#17 Sep 12 2017 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
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It's been forever since I watched the first .hack series, but my personal recollection was that it didn't really do the concept of "This is a game!" much justice, either. Yes, we had Tsukasa "stuck" and all the oddities related to Aura and the World, but if we're being honest, you could probably revise Tsukasa's character to simply being some kind of amnesiac mage and you wouldn't see a whole lot of difference in the plot outside of occasional IRL references with Bear, Rose, and such.

SAO suffers somewhat similarly, but I'd also say they tried to be a bit more MMO about it. Yes, the full-dive tech allows for more feasibility in getting stuck, but it also enables a higher degree of awareness and control. As established early on between Klein and Kirito, using skills wasn't so much a matter of pushing the right buttons as it was merely thinking about using them with the appropriate conditions met like range or MP. SAO skill development also didn't seem so rigidly class-locked, as demonstrated by how Kirito went about learning dual-wield or countering the lower leveled PKers with significant regen. You also had craft skills that leveled up similarly to how we might know here with XIV or XI. Basically, the game liked to reward dedicated use of abilities or combinations thereof. And while their hand wavey menu management might not have seemed like the most detailed means of window browsing, I'm more inclined to say that was intentionally kept minimal for entertainment value purposes.

As for Log Horizon, I'll agree it tried the most to be MMO-like, but I'd almost say there was a conceptual equivalent of the uncanny valley that went on. The raids rarely felt like anything I'd personally experienced when gaming, and I don't think that's just a JP vs. NA thing. Meanwhile, they went to great lengths to try and convey a realistic economy and/or the politics behind such, but too many MMOs nowadays more or less treat crafting as an afterthought with the best gear coming from raids/tokens. Things like RMT or people maliciously manipulating markets don't really come off as a severe problem for the not-poor, which Shiro and his immediate circle of friends obviously were not starting as high level raiders. Watching the lowbie group also felt particularly painful at times, but also became an unfortunate requirement to the series precisely because of Shiro's starting status. On the other hand, I don't think it's fair for me to be passing a final judgment on this because it's a show that seems indefinitely incomplete.

Either way, saying this genre rarely feels like it gets it right has an incredibly highly diverse list of characteristics behind the sentiment. You've got the woes of the newbie in figuring out the basics. You've then got the mid-game building upon those with ideally increasing challenges, often requiring interactions with others. PK aside, you've got things like job/gear snobbery, disagreement on tactics, those of varying skill levels/receptivity, ninja lotting, carrying their weight or seriousness in play, actually finding people with matching agendas when you want to do something, sensible expectations of play time, and then some. Endgame just tends to take all that and dials it up to 11, where grinds are stupid like XI's RMEs or worthwhile solo content pretty much ceases to exist because raider feefees. Relative to the DoL show, a lot of this was either skimmed or was never really a factor at all.

Essentially, you rarely get the vibe players are individually selfish, and not to be mean, but to prioritize personal progress. They're either happily helpful or want to kill you (in the game and real life!). There's not a whole lot of in-between that goes on. Early/mid-SAO Kirito is probably how I'd best associate myself with characters in the genre as when there is a game I latch onto, I tend to accrue as much knowledge and power as I can on my own. The identity of coming off as "godly" may not seem as prevalent in reality nowadays or like early NA launch XI, but there are still people who may come to appreciate that should I chance upon helping them out (and level caps aren't a thing--boo hiss).
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#18 Sep 12 2017 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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I mean, yeah sure it has town hubs and it seems like everything happens in instanced content, kind alike Guild Wars or something, but... it seems very barebones. Even if you replaced the NPCs with human players, it still sounds like something that would be boring. Basically an instanced version of Diablo where you do nothing but kill junk to get levelups and loot.


I think they actually did that. They made an MMO based on The World and.... it didn't go well. Because you're absolutely right, the actual gameplay of The World is SUPER barebones. Without a story wrapped around it to make it interesting (which .hack has) there'd be nothing redeeming about it.



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#19 Sep 12 2017 at 7:40 PM Rating: Good
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Callinon wrote:

I think they actually did that. They made an MMO based on The World and.... it didn't go well. Because you're absolutely right, the actual gameplay of The World is SUPER barebones. Without a story wrapped around it to make it interesting (which .hack has) there'd be nothing redeeming about it.


I would think that one of the reasons why it wouldn't work as a real MMO is because... I don't know... half of the in-universe lore exists outside of the game and that would be kinda hard to do unless we did some sort of Assassin's Creed or Saints Row 4 style game-in-a-game type setup where we walk around outside of the game.

Hmmmm...

You know, that Could actually work if done right. But eh. That'd be some risky ground.

But there would need to be more than just Diablo-style killing and looting in the actual game itself.

Edited, Sep 12th 2017 9:43pm by Lyrailis
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