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T4 Coil strategy/helpFollow

#1 Mar 10 2014 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
135 posts
I've ran coil a few times, haven't downed T5 but last two times we've been REALLY struggling to finish T4 (having actually missed last week). From a Blm perspective, I want to post what I do and see if I should be improving or something different.

Pld War Blmx2 Brd Mnk Whm Sch
I have 251 Piety with Sch buff, Acc is base 416 (Eggs 424, Toad Legs 433). I ran out of Legs on last run and had a crucial Blizz3 miss and a Thunder using Eggs. Didn't notice any other misses but until I get Allagan Legs to hit the cap w/o food, sticking with legs. Crit 473, Det 250.

Phase 1

I time my Fire 3 to hit the bug that the tank pulls (typically war pulls now as I almost always pull hate) then start my AoE rotation of Fire 2. I move in during the last few secs of casting to cheat a bit since we all stack in the middle. I pop Quelling Strikes during this phase, I'll Flare, Convert, Switfcast Flare (so does the other Blm). If I crit at all, I pull hate or if I forget Quelling. Usually this isn't a problem. I cast Blizz 1 during UI3 phase and if bugs still need a little work I go back into AF3 and toss a Fire 2 once or twice. I make sure to finish with Blizz3 to being Phase 2 to with full mana.

Phase 2
We put magical DPS on the MT Soldier/Knight. I stick to a standard rotation here, burning no cooldowns. We tend to finish Soldier before mnk and brd have first knight down. We switch and unless we are slow or have misses (like my **** Blizz3), finish before the Dread drops. Again, I try to finish with Blizz3 to start the next phase in UI3 with full mana. Since we feed bugs immediately then commence DPS, I don't think it's an issue if we are slow finishing off here right? If we finish early, I'm just casting Blizz1 on the Dread to maintain UI3 anyways, I'm not DPSing.

Phase 3
Quelling is on the verge of being up. I let tank get initial aggro for at least a GCD, then pop Raging Strikes, and burn it down using standard rotation. If I was lucky enough to have a FS proc when the phase begins, I hit Transpose first then F3. Every little bit helps. As soon as Quelling is back up I hit it to be safe. I have pulled aggro once or twice in numerous runs and been blessed to not accidentally wipe the group or get killed myself. Dread is killed before next phase, again attempting to end in UI3.

Phase 4
I single target the rook closest to the MT. I make sure to not pull aggro as best as I can and try to burn it down before a single Pox goes off. Sometimes I notice the other Blm doing AoE here. I'm honestly not sure which is correct. Typically I burn down Rook #1, then switch to other Rook (which is usually about half from other people beating on it/AoE) then go back to AoE rotation to finish bugs. At this point, Convert will be back up so I Flare, Vert, Swiftcast Flare (I always make sure to save Swiftcast for this phase). IF everything is going right, bugs are killed before Phase 5 Dread can drop and eat them. To be honest, we seem to really struggle with this transition, numerous times not having bugs fully dead so there is crucial wasted time killing Soldier/Knight or a Dread simply chomps a bug or 2 and it's almost a guaranteed wipe. Do I need to focus strictly on AoE? I've never been hit with Pox but I keep hearing that it's hard for tanks to dodge it and if they get it, it's a wipe essentially. We use TS and call out Pox casts just to be safe. I also don't AoE here if I know we are close to Phase 5 beginning as I've been told that the Knight WILL reflect back AoE damage. If someone can confirm, this will help. Since we usually kill right at the last moment or still have bugs alive, I don't focus on what phase to finish in here, concentrating 100% on not letting Dread eat bugs.

Phase 5
Very easy for the most part. We tend to get the Dread to about 50%. Here is where I'm popping a Mega Pot of Int and make sure to use Quelling Strikes (since I don't AoE in Phase 4). Raging Strikes is not yet up.

Phase 6
We focus on Rook as tank takes 2 Dreads. Typically Mnk will LB the rook asap with a full bar and we don't take much to burn it down. We then switch to Phase 5 Dread and burn cooldowns. Raging should be up here but no Quelling, I am right in ignoring that and just hitting Raging right? We want to get the 2nd Dread off the tank asap correct? Besides the tank should have plenty of hate built up at this point. We then switch back to Soldier/Knight after killing Dread, feed bugs then burn Dread. I feel like there is something else I could be doing on the final Dread as I have no cooldowns and Convert is more than likely not up.

For the most part, we follow the standard strat but again tend to struggle in the above mentioned. Tips overall for me or the group?

Edited, Aug 26th 2017 7:13pm by Gidono
#2 Mar 11 2014 at 1:18 AM Rating: Good
1,556 posts
What does your gear look like? A missed blizzard 3 on this turn can really ***** you over unfortunately. I would honestly not wait for the legs, especially with another BLM in your group.

On phase 1, do not use quelling. Get your PLD to use cover on you when you take aggro. This allows you to save quelling for the next phase and go all out on a soldier without having to worry about threat. The tank will have to manage two adds and since your DPS is evenly split, he will need to give both adds equal attention. Help him out with quelling while not having to stagger your own DPS.

I would honestly fire 3 > fire 2 > fire 2 > flare > convert > flare. There has been some math done on quite a few AoE rotations and casting fire 2 seems to be a slight DPS increase. Are you also familiar with double flaring without convert? It is dangerous but doable. See how it is done in the below video:

It can be a slight DPS increase after your initial two flares go off. It also allows for the possibility of saving convert if you all have no trouble with phase 1.

Even if you pull threat on the soldier phase, remember you have manawall to negate the hits.

For phase 2, I can tell you a few things. If you are downing the soldier before the BRD and MNK, both BLMs are probably doing something correct. I would recommend using thunder 1 on both soldiers to maximize chance of TC procs. In fact, I would do this throughout the fight when you have multiple high HP targets and are in the umbral ice phase.

For phase 3, the tanks are your problem it seems. There is no reason you should ever pull threat on the dreadnought or have to use quelling. The threat threshold is just that high if your tanks are doing their job properly. I would have you ask them about their opening moves and rotation on that phase. If you feel like you will pull threat after the bugs have been absorbed, though, move away from the group initially. Pop manawall if you see it coming towards you. You can easily negate any damage you might take from taking threat without endangering the rest of the group with proper positioning so have no fear.

As a fellow BLM who has observed many other BLMs on turn 4, I would ask one thing of you on phase 4: PLEASE use your AoE rotation. :P In fact, everyone should be AoEing. I AoE on my MNK all the time during this phase. It really is not too difficult for the tank to move out of the way when pox is cast. The concern is pulling threat. This is the ideal situation for using quelling if there was one since pox does pose a higher risk, if you pull threat, than the other phases. You can only negate so many hits with manawall.

Make sure you are targeting the highest HP target when performing your AoE rotation to prevent spell cancellation upon death! This can be a tricky thing when working with another BLM.

The only time I have seen issues with this phase with two magic DPS is when one (or both) of the DPSs does not AoE. If this is also a crucial moment for you all, consider blowing raging strikes here instead of the dreadnought.

Since you aren't having issue with phase 5 and many groups do it differently, I can't give advice. I can tell you that, prior to phase 6 starting, you should cast eye for an eye on whatever tank is taking both dreadnoughts.

Phase 6 is also something my group does differently than others. In fact, my alt group (on MNK) uses the strategy you use. On my BLM, our group actually kills the rook > soldier + knight > any bug remaining before switching back to the dreadnought. The way to do this is have your PLD take the two dreadnoughts and hallowed ground when things get rough so the healers have breathing room. He should also save sentinel and any other heavy cooldowns for this phase as well.

I'm tasked with feeding one of the bugs to one of the dreadnoughts and another DPS grabs the other one while the MNK LBs the rook. I'll then kill the rook if it's still alive, kill the soldier, and then the lowest HP dreadnought. You can also use virus on one of the dreadnoughts in this phase to help the healers out. After the soldier/knight die, the second tank takes the other dreadnought off the MT so that they are tanked separately.

When you are down to the last enemy, have everyone stack on his **** so the SCH can use sacred soil and all AoE heals hit to help with the soft enrage should you hit it.

You might try this strategy but keep in mind it puts a lot of stress on the healers.

Threat should only be an issue for the healers at this point. Do not bother using quelling like you have stated.

I am more likely to say the problem is with your tanks and/or healers rather than your DPS.

Make sure your BRD is using soul voice + foe requiem on these parts where there are DPS checks that absolutely must be met (phase 4). In fact, foe requiem on all AoE sections should make this fight a breeze for you all.

Hope this helps and good luck!

Edit: If you'd like, post a parse/video of this turn. ACT is a pretty good parsing program if you can get it set up.

Edited, Mar 11th 2014 3:22am by HitomeOfBismarck
#3 Mar 11 2014 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
135 posts
We actually cleared all 4 turns last night lol. But still, much to discuss and absorb (last night we did not have our i90 Mnk unfortunately had a mid 80 DRG. DPS was an issue).

I'm first in line for the legs, I only have to compete with waist. With cap on myth going away, I don't know why I was worried about wasting myth on Hero's belt, that is an immediate and significant upgrade for acc. /smh

Double Flare: Yeah I saw the vid from the BG forums, I played around with it but until I have coil down pat, I don't want to experiment in there as it were.

I should clarify phase 2, we swap on DPS. Magical goes for MT soldier while Physical is on OT Knight, then we switch, specifically so tanks don't have a hard time managing aggro on 2 mobs. Since I have been pulling aggro sometimes with lucky FS or crits, I have gone to the other Blm rotation of opening with Thunder on both for procs like you recommended. Since finishing this phase is never a problem, "slowing" DPS is ok to prevent peeling off a Soldier.

Phase 4 I did the single target again. We had everyone focus down rooks and ignore bugs and we seemed to clear it a few times this way however Foe + AoE is probably a better call. Currently we have been doing Foe on the Phase 3 Dread, I can ask Bard to switch it up as Foe on mult AoE targets seems like it will get the job done.

It was definitely a tank issue on previous tries, he knew he was right on the threshold of gear to be able to tank 2 Dreads. ****, we even tried Hallowed Ground into tank LB to keep him alive as the DPS on rook was not an issue with the mnk. I have made sure to drop Virus on Phase 5 Dread to help out a bit as well. The only issue in final phase is just downing phase 5 Dread. After that, it's cake (funny story though, last night OT forgot to feed bugs to Phase 6 Dread so we ended up having to burn down bugs during the enrage and almost lost, was quite funny.)

I'm on PS3, will be switching to PS4 in a few weeks (beta is GORGEOUS). While I can't parse I will be Twitching the **** out of our group runs. Thanks for the advice and tips.

#4 Mar 12 2014 at 6:04 AM Rating: Excellent
1,556 posts
Yeah, with the myth belt you may be able to get away with using deviled eggs. Let me be more blunt, though: I've been waiting on those legs for 5 months now. :P What I'm trying to say is, with the patch so close, don't worry about spending myth on your BLM to increase ACC. I see you have chosen the gloves which is a great idea. The myth belt will bump you up even further. If we could only get you the Allagan earring or tremor earring from Titan, you'd be good to go.

The AF2 pants are actually a huge DPS increase for you either way. In fact, when fighting extreme primals and the like, you would not want to use the Allagan legs since ACC isn't an issue on extremes. Having a pure DPS set that doesn't take ACC into account is a great thing so buying the legs is a win-win.

That is a really cool tactic that you use for phase 2. :) I might suggest it to our tanks. I ended up tanking the soldier again last night.

I'm glad you have had some success!! I would really like to watch your turn 4 attempts on Twitch.

Is your tank for phase 3 a PLD? Maybe recommend that he opens with fight or flight which will up his damage (and enmity) considerably. I usually FoF + spirits + scorn and then use my halone combo and have solid enmity from there on out. If it's a WAR, I can't give you advice since I don't have a level capped one. Valk will be able to give him advice, though, as he plays a WAR though I don't know if he views these forums anymore.

You are probably right to wait till T4 is on 'farm' before experimenting with double flare. It can be really messy if you end up in astral fire without transpose up and 0 MP. :( I think the phase 3 dread and the phase 4 rooks + bugs are a good way to utilize foe requiem. The BRD should have enough mana to stick foe requiem on when the dreadnaught reaches 50% so that it remains on when you all AoE the bugs and 2 rooks. But I highly encourage AoE on this section.

However, if your tank is undergeared, you may want to play it safe and have the BRD conserve mana for ballad.

Good luck (either way) in the future!

Edited, Mar 12th 2014 8:06am by HitomeOfBismarck
#5 Mar 12 2014 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
135 posts
Yeah, just going to go ahead and get legs now, I was derping too much on worrying about spending myth. Given that my BRD is 40 and WAR is 31, its not like I need to save. I passed on Vortex ring to be a nice guy in my first Garuda EX, haven't had a chance to do it again yet or Titan even so I've been silently kicking myself on that. With belt, gear calculator says HQ Eggs almost caps my Crit and Acc % wise (1pt off) and caps Vit. 436 should be plenty given that I've experienced no misses with Lava Toad Legs and DL belt (that I recall, may have had a miss but according to all data I've found, I'm virtually at 99% at 433 Acc). I think I'm finally at the point where I can play enough to have mult sets for my main. Truth be told, I've had no problem "overgearing" for acc because as soon as 2.2 hits, we want to down Twintania (hoping it's just an echo buff nerf so we can choose to not use it) and then begin the next turns, figuring acc is the place to always start. Still, it's becoming apparent to be at a point where acc is good enough and just being more efficient on speed of kill to get on to other things is more important. Do you happen to know a good resource for acc cap for non-coil events?

Yes, we have the PLD take the Dread in phase 3.
#6 Mar 13 2014 at 6:39 AM Rating: Excellent
1,556 posts
I do not actually have a resource to link to you about primal accuracy caps. I do remember reading a report about someone missing a spell on a primal with very low accuracy but I can't recall the number off the top of my head.

I usually play with 432 accuracy in coil and have never missed (to my knowledge). Puro pooled a very sizable sample from turn 4 and 5 on his sheet:

You can see at the bottom there is an 'ACC' tab. Click that to view the results. There were no reported misses at 432 and only one miss at 431 (leaving you at something ridiculously close to accuracy cap).

Now days, I actually just equip all my accuracy gear and use buttons in a blanket instead of adjusting my gear around to accommodate for deviled eggs. Like you've noted, I'm sure this will change come 2.2 and ACC will be king for a while until we figure out the new caps!

Also remember to account for the Allagan scepter + shield accuracy come 2.2. It provides substantial accuracy, actually! So when you get Twin on farm, you'll have even more freedom to rearrange gear.

Edited, Mar 13th 2014 8:41am by HitomeOfBismarck
#7 Mar 13 2014 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
135 posts
Right, I follow Puro's doc religiously. Since downing T5 wasn't coming anytime soon, I wasn't super focused on building any of the listed builds w/scepter, more hybrid like yours in the gear thread. I definitely had misses at 432-434 previously, Now no matter what food I eat Acc should not be a problem (if true 100% acc exists) since I will be at 436 w/Eggs and Garuda ring will help me get to Buttons. Will definitely play around with some gear sets for +DPs as opposed to Acc as nothing coming up in the 2.2 should need more Acc except Coil and potentially Leviathan EX.
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