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Faith in Humanity drops another notch.Follow

#1 Mar 07 2006 at 11:57 AM Rating: Decent
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/07/embryos.ruling/index.html wrote:
LONDON, England -- The European Court of Human Rights has ruled that a British woman has no right to use frozen embryos to have a baby without the consent of the man who provided the sperm.

The court upheld a UK law that says permission from both parents is needed at every stage of the in vitro fertilization (IVF) process, as well as for the storage and implantation of the fertilized eggs.



I think the "man" (I use this term loosely) in this case needs a bullet to the head Smiley: motz. This "Don't want the financial and emotional responsibility of blah blah blah" is utter crap.

He is single-handedly denying a woman the right to bear children. Once these embryos are destroyed.... as a male of the species I can't even fathom the kind of loss one would be feeling at that point.
#2 Mar 07 2006 at 12:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's really too bad it didn't happen here. Every zygote would have its own lawyer petitioning the court for his clients' right to be born.
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#3 Mar 07 2006 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
How is he denying her anything? That there is a world view from the vantage point of head firmly implanted in ***.

Umm, go out and have more eggs harvested and get a man who is open to the idea to donate sperm for embryo making. What is the issue here? Good on the court for making an intelligent and rational decision. If the man wants nothing to do with it, he shouldn't have to have anything to do with it. What makes her so special that she should get to decide fully what to do with something that takes both of them to create?

F'ucking liberal.
#4 Mar 07 2006 at 12:09 PM Rating: Decent
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
How is he denying her anything? That there is a world view from the vantage point of head firmly implanted in ***.

Umm, go out and have more eggs harvested and get a man who is open to the idea to donate sperm for embryo making. What is the issue here? Good on the court for making an intelligent and rational decision. If the man wants nothing to do with it, he shouldn't have to have anything to do with it. What makes her so special that she should get to decide fully what to do with something that takes both of them to create?

F'ucking liberal.


Try reading the article Moe- she can’t create any more eggs, this is her last shot, genetically speaking.


Quote:
Natallie Evans, 34, underwent IVF in 2001 with her partner Howard Johnston ahead of ovarian cancer treatment which rendered her infertile.



I mean, if it was as you say, and she could just make new eggs, then this case would be silly. But that's not what I'm getting indignant about.
#5 Mar 07 2006 at 12:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I got the impression from the article that the cancer treatments left her infertile and those eggs are her only shot at being a mother.

Still, I must say, sorry about her luck. I don't see how that gives her the right to make the father have a child that he neither wants nor cares for.
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#6 Mar 07 2006 at 12:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Umm, go out and have more eggs harvested


Umm, read the article. Umm, there are no more eggs. Ummm, ovarian cancer, blah blah blah.

On the other hand I tend to agree that the sperm is his property, and his consent should be attained before they're used. Just tweakin' ya on the whole not-having-read-the-article thing.
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#7 Mar 07 2006 at 12:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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that's why you get that kinda **** in writing
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#8 Mar 07 2006 at 12:24 PM Rating: Decent
If she had 6 eggs why didn't she just use a donner? Obviously, they split before she went ahead and got IVF treatment, so it's not like theres an issue with her being a single parent.

Child: "Mom, whos my father?"
Mom: "I don't know, ya see I got some sperm from a random clinic anf blah blah blah..." Then just explain the situation to the kid.

OR

Child: "Mom, who's my father?"
Mom: "Well the man who is your genetic father doesn't want you, nor gives a **** about you."

I think I would opt for the former.
#9 Mar 07 2006 at 12:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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That would presuppose that you could separate the eggs from the sperm. The embryos, zygotes, whatever, are already fertilized and ready to be implanted.
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#10 Mar 07 2006 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Natallie Evans, 34, underwent IVF in 2001 with her partner Howard Johnston ahead of ovarian cancer treatment which rendered her infertile.


Yup, missed that part, nvm.
#11 Mar 07 2006 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
When I give up the goo I never ask for it back, that's just tacky. I'm in agreement with Dana, though, in that the final eggs one is ever going to produce should be important enough to put something in writing. As it stands I can't see her being allowed to use the embryos, although I think it's a ******* thing for him to not allow her to raise a child alone. Who am I to say, though, maybe he's just opposed to bringing a child into a world wothout Kirby Puckett.
#12 Mar 07 2006 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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He gave up the sperm when he fertilized the egg. Does the man get to terminate a pregnancy after a breakup? The deeds been done.
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#13 Mar 07 2006 at 12:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ah, but it's not a pregnancy. He wouldn't get to shoot any living children produced by the union, either; but that's not the issue.
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#14 Mar 07 2006 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
He gave up the sperm when he fertilized the egg. Does the man get to terminate a pregnancy after a breakup? The deeds been done.



I agree he must have given his consent at one time when the eggs were initially fertilized.

Why not just sign some type of agreement giving up his parental rights therefore not obligating him to provide any type of child support etc.


#15 Mar 07 2006 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
I agree that his sperm is his sperm. There's no way to argue it there.

But his excuse for the matter is pathetic. "Oh noez, $$ spent on kid I don't want with her!!!11!!" He should have thought about that before the eggs were fertilized in the first place, when they weren't even married at the time. The irresponsibility (on both sides, she had to sign the forms too) is mindboggling.


All the while, he is deliberately (and I feel maliciously) not allowing her to have children that would be at least partially her own. He can create new sperm, get other women preggers and have his family over yonder- She doesn't have that choice any longer.

Get a court order barring the two from seeing/talking to each other, and remove any financial responsibility he might have incurred. They can go their separate ways, end of discussion.
#16 Mar 07 2006 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lord xythex wrote:
Does the man get to terminate a pregnancy after a breakup?
No, but according to British law, he gets to prevent a pregnancy after a breakup.

The two aren't the same thing. I think it's a shame for the woman but I find myself in the man's camp legally.
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#17 Mar 07 2006 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
I didn't read the article. I figure if you're going to quote from it anyway you will have quoted the relavent f'ucking parts.

That being said, **** on her. She should have frozen a couple of eggs, not made embryos with all of them. It's not like she was married to the guy, in which case it would have been marital property in a divorce and split 50/50.

Tough noogies.
#18 Mar 07 2006 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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Ah, but it's not a pregnancy.


That, I guess, comes down to the whole when does life begin debate.
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#19 Mar 07 2006 at 12:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Althrun wrote:
He should have thought about that before the eggs were fertilized in the first place, when they weren't even married at the time.
Um, no.. she should have thought about it. The law was always on his side, stating that consent from both parties would be needed at each stage of the IVF procedure. She is the one asking for special consideration outside the law.
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#20 Mar 07 2006 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lord xythex wrote:
Quote:
Ah, but it's not a pregnancy.


That, I guess, comes down to the whole when does life begin debate.


Hence my first comment. Smiley: smile
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#21 Mar 07 2006 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
I would like to take this opportunity to let anyone who might have been wondering know that I will never take my sperm back after I've given it to you. Not under any circumstances, even if I'm drunk.
#22 Mar 07 2006 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
I would like to take this opportunity to let anyone who might have been wondering know that I will never take my sperm back after I've given it to you. Not under any circumstances, even if I'm drunk.

thanks for clearing that up. I guess I had always thought of you as the guy who brought a straw to bed so you could retrieve your protien shake from her ***.
#23 Mar 07 2006 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
Moe wrote:
I guess I had always thought of you as the guy who brought a straw to bed so you could retrieve your protien shake from her ***.


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#24 Mar 07 2006 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Quote:
I would like to take this opportunity to let anyone who might have been wondering know that I will never take my sperm back after I've given it to you. Not under any circumstances, even if I'm drunk.

thanks for clearing that up. I guess I had always thought of you as the guy who brought a straw to bed so you could retrieve your protien shake from her ***.



I would never use a straw when a second hooker would be able to extract it just as well, if not better, and she would gain the benefit of strong bones and a glossy coat.It's about sharing.

Edited, Tue Mar 7 13:06:55 2006 by Barkingturtle
#25 Mar 07 2006 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
a glossy coat


Good god man, what kind of hookers are you using?
#26 Mar 07 2006 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
"Ah fUck, I've screwed her out of having her own babies. Oh well." *Runs away with a skip in his step.*




The law is on his side in this dispute, fine. I didn't bring it up in the first place. I'm just saying that morally, I find the situation/him lacking.
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