Mindless to mindfulFollow

So there was an article in the news this morning about a parolee who has been ordained as a minister.

He was convicted 20 years ago for killing a homeless man - a thrill kill, random mindless violence perpetrated by teenagers.

I'm wondering two things about this. How close are we all, how close is each of us, to tapping into that well of evil that seems to be part of the human condition? Have you ever wanted to kill a stranger just to see what it was like? Ever wanted to hunt humans? Ever... well, fill in the blanks.

The second question is, having drunk from that well, is redemption possible? Whether you're religious or not - would you want a counselor/mentor/spiritual guide who had been in prison for a random act of violence?

Here's the article if you're curious.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say NO.

It's only fair right? She gets half your 401k and you get to end her life.

I've played Lazer-Tag!

I've had moments where I entertained fleeting thoughts of violence after someone cut me off in traffic or somesuch but, even if I knew there'd be no repercussions, I wouldn't want to brain some random individual with a crowbar for the hell of it. I'm a pretty easy-going guy and I wouldn't have it in me.
Well, my first thought was that, as Acts tells it, Paul had a fair bit of blood on his hands when he was called but his actions were on the behalf of the Roman government, not anti-social disorder.

I imagine if I learned my spiritual leader had a checkered past (to use it lightly), it wouldn't really make me worry. Now, I'm sure there's exceptions and I'll admit that while I should forgive a mass-baby rapist or whatever I doubt it'd come that easily. But in the scenario you present I think I could accept it as part of the dark before the dawn.

I'd have a much harder time with a spiritual leader who commited such an act and then claimed repentance.

Lazer-Tag = Cheaper than Paintball, no personal equipment needed and a quicker game, too

I say 'Lazer' cause I'm pretty sure that's how they spelled the tag version. Though technically, I played some laser tag knock-off known as Q-Zar of all things

Edited, Mon Mar 13 12:50:30 2006 by Jophiel

I'm sure most, if not all, of us could be pressed past our limits. But I think Samira is referring to random, senseless, Clockwork Orange-esque acts of violence.

re: Thoughts of random violence

I think every human has the potential for violence if hit with a proper stimulus. I do not think we're constantly staring into the abyss to find it gazing back at us. My reply is anecdotal, so have your salt at the ready: I've never had a thought of killing random humans.

I have acted violently at various times in my life, but the use of it was always situational. I felt I had cause and justification. My actions were always taken in self defense or the defense of another; I wasn't a bully growing up.

Despite being a cynical misanthrope, I've never had an urge to do unwarranted harm to others. I keep to myself and believe most people are the same.

There will always be a subset of folks that are bullies, who enjoy hurting others for power, as well as a subset that are sociopaths, who derive stranger pleasures from their actions. It's best to identify them early and fix or remove them as appropriate to limit their damage to the rest of society.



re: Redemption

I am not a big believer in redemption. This is probably obvious in how I describe my worldview. I believe in things like consequence, culpability, and responsibility. We are each held accountable for the actions we take, and where we transgress, punishment must be enforced.


Given that, I'd say whether or not one can make a fresh start after committing a heinous act is largely determined by their actual motivations. I don't mean why they say they committed their crime, and I don't mean what reason the court finally settled on. I mean deep internal, heart-of-hearts type stuff, the things that we know if we choose to be truly honest with ourselves (few do), the things we will never admit to another human being. Truth with the capital T.

If he was killing for pleasure - if he got off on it - if it satisfied some dark hunger that I do not have and cannot understand ... well, I'd be pretty skeptical about recovery.

If he was running with a pack of kids, got sucked up in the moment, was operating under mob psychology, etc... maybe there's a shot at recovery. Perhaps the time he was incarcerated helped him realize the enormity of his actions. He is under an infinite debt to the memory of the man he killed; it's a price that can never be worked off, but one that he must try to pay. The Labor of Sisyphus made real.



Part of my problem with life in general is that I find the latter type of man all too hard to believe in - the former, all too real.

You guys don't allow horizontal buttstrokes?

I think about killing people all the time. But of course I've tried to kill myslef before =/ did't work obviously...

On the redemption, I say no... I think its probly just so he looks better at his next parole hearing ^.^

I think you're confusing Lazer-Tag with what Joph called "Q-zar" (interestingly enough, we had a Q-zar arena here in SD for awhile as well). Q-zar was the indoor thing with the dark maze and fog machines, where you rented equipment and played specific time periods (with teams and points and stuff).

Lazer-Tag was a set of pistols, rifles, and sensors you purchased on your own. You got a bunch of people together with the gear and head out into a forest or park (or school late at night) and shot at eachother. Basically, it was exactly like paintball, but was a heck of a lot cheaper and somewhat safer (you couldn't be injured by the weapons, but folks still got banged up running around, jumping into bushes and canyons and such).

We had a pretty large group of people playing out here in SD for awhile. Upwards of 150+ folks showing up on a saturday night to play. There were actual permanent teams who'd compete with eachother, complete with rankings, tourneys, and just plain fun stuff. Of course, the cops pretty much always showed up eventually to, but that was part of the fun... ;)

I could never hurt another human being. I just don't have it in me. Aside from what comes across in my persona, I am an extremely tender-hearted individual. This isn't to say I wouldn't breate the bejesus out of someone or do the worst I could to them within legal parameters, but I would try to temper my retaliation so that it was equal to the perceived wrong. In some cases, I have even been chastised by family for not getting back at someone who deserved it as strongly as they feel I should have.

As for redemption, I feel it's possible, but I think that accepting that people may lose faith in you plays a part.