Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

On the Armenian GenocideFollow

#427 Jul 15 2016 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
3,462 posts
SPG wrote:
who would be left to hold Turkey accountable?

The pilgrims!
____________________________
Dandruffshampoo wrote:
Curses, beaten by Professor stupidopo-opo.
Annabella, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Stupidmonkey is more organized than a bag of raccoons.
#428 Jul 15 2016 at 8:59 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,440 posts
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
SPG wrote:
who would be left to hold Turkey accountable?

The pilgrims!
Let's go with that. They were genocidal too, this could work...
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#429 Jul 16 2016 at 2:16 AM Rating: Default
*
186 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Palpitus1 wrote:
But this thread is laser-focused on this particular topic. ARMENIAN GENOCIDE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT. VERY SIMPLE. YES OR NO.

If you want "laser focus", we should restrain ourselves to talking about 2007's House Resolution 106 and whether or not the House of Representatives should pass a resolution calling upon President Bush to acknowledge the event as a genocide. And there was actually four options to pick from, not just two. You know -- if we're to have laser focus on the OP.


Don't bother to restrain anything, much less a year before Obama was elected, in at least a little part due to his promising to acknowledge the Armenian Genocide. Not sure what one has to do with the other. And sorry if I don't go back to your original OP (mostly due to drunkenness) but GWB hasn't been in charge for a long while, nor did he promise to call the Armenian Genocide a Genocide. Obama did though! Yet he didn't, and wont'! BINARY. LIAR. DUH. focus on potus, lotus blossom.

As far as current Turkey; I would hope the coup would succeed, as the Turkish military has a long history of couping radical sectarians and authoritarians/autocrats, which Erdogan is. Turkish coups are uniquely unlike any other coups. And of course Turkey in the past genocided Armenians (well, I guess they actually didn't if you ask our current President). But today if the coup succeeds Turkey would be less sectarian, more against ISIS, less against bombing Kurds, more inclusive. And in a couple years after the military cedes control (as history has shown), a new democratic government.

Yeah, coups are 99% bad. This is the 1% we should hope succeeds.


ETA: mixed up sectarian with non sectarian. Stupid word, I blame the word not me. LOL at that Trump Pence **** *** logo btw. Get it dirty. No judgement.

Edited, Jul 16th 2016 4:26am by Palpitus1
#430 Jul 16 2016 at 3:20 AM Rating: Default
*
186 posts
So the coup failed, apparently, according to now up-to-date reports. That sucks.
#431 Jul 16 2016 at 4:41 AM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
35,381 posts
Palpitus1 wrote:
Yeah, coups are 99% bad. This is the 1% we should hope succeeds.
I had a friend say the same thing yesterday. I'm not up to speed on Turkey so can't comment in agreement or disagreement, but his reasoning is that Erdogan has basically been trying to consolidate power in a Putin-like fashion. Very anti-democratic in a nation that holds very strongly to democracy.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.


An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#432 Jul 18 2016 at 6:32 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
35,010 posts
Palpitus1 wrote:
As far as current Turkey; I would hope the coup would succeed, as the Turkish military has a long history of couping radical sectarians and authoritarians/autocrats, which Erdogan is. Turkish coups are uniquely unlike any other coups. And of course Turkey in the past genocided Armenians (well, I guess they actually didn't if you ask our current President). But today if the coup succeeds Turkey would be less sectarian, more against ISIS, less against bombing Kurds, more inclusive. And in a couple years after the military cedes control (as history has shown), a new democratic government.


The problem is that we don't actually know if this would have been the case. The new government could just as easily been directly pro-IS rather than just the "play the middle" position that Erdogan has been pursuing. I think it's a terrible mistake to apply our own fairly uninformed and binary view of politics on another country. It's not as simple as being "for" or "against" things that the US likes. It's very unlikely for the political factions within Turkey itself to align so nicely. So you may get a replacement that is "better" in terms of the Kurds, but "worse" in terms of dealing with IS and Syrian refugees (and yes, that's absolutely possible here).

Of course, the downside is that it looks as though he's likely to use the attempted coup to consolidate yet more power for himself. So we maintain a semi-ally in Turkey, but will probably have to deal with this down the road. At which time, the likelihood of an anti-west faction gaining power to oppose him will be even higher. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, right?
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#433 Jul 19 2016 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
******
49,907 posts
Uglysasquatch wrote:
I had a friend say the same thing yesterday.
"X is horrible except when it benefits me" ?
gbaji wrote:
The problem is that we don't actually know if this would have been the case.
Oh come on, you're the last person to complain about the legitimacy of hypothetical scenarios.

Edited, Jul 19th 2016 12:09pm by lolgaxe
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#434 Jul 19 2016 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
35,010 posts
Palpitus1 wrote:
But today if the coup succeeds Turkey would be less sectarian, more against ISIS, less against bombing Kurds, more inclusive. And in a couple years after the military cedes control (as history has shown), a new democratic government.


lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
The problem is that we don't actually know if this would have been the case.
Oh come on, you're the last person to complain about the legitimacy of hypothetical scenarios.


I'm not complaining. Just pointing out that his statement is, in fact, hypothetical.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#435 Jul 21 2016 at 4:14 AM Rating: Default
*
186 posts
gbaji wrote:
I'm not complaining. Just pointing out that his statement is, in fact, hypothetical.


It's a hypothetical based on the history of that nation. So, a hypothetical that is likely (>50%) to be true, at least I think my points are that.

There's of course now no current hypothetical showing Erdogan dismissing thousands of justices, teachers, soldiers, etc. That is fact. Soon might be a fact of reinstating the death penalty. Hypothetical that too, but one Erdogan wants. Not much hypothetical about Erdogan being more non-secular, or more bombing Kurds, or more quasi-supporting ISIS. And "Inclusive".
#436 Jul 21 2016 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
35,010 posts
Palpitus1 wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I'm not complaining. Just pointing out that his statement is, in fact, hypothetical.


It's a hypothetical based on the history of that nation. So, a hypothetical that is likely (>50%) to be true, at least I think my points are that.

There's of course now no current hypothetical showing Erdogan dismissing thousands of justices, teachers, soldiers, etc. That is fact. Soon might be a fact of reinstating the death penalty. Hypothetical that too, but one Erdogan wants. Not much hypothetical about Erdogan being more non-secular, or more bombing Kurds, or more quasi-supporting ISIS. And "Inclusive".


I think you're misunderstanding me. I was not questioning your opinion of Erdogan. I was questioning your assumption that a replacement via coup would be better. History shows that the statement "it can't be worse than <insert bad thing here>" pretty consistently turns out to be false.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#437 Jul 21 2016 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
13,230 posts
While any time there is a coup, it represents a blow to democratic rule, Turkey is kinda of a special case, they have a long tradition of military coups that return power to democratic institutions. Amusingly they are also always launched on Fridays so as not inconvenience people's work schedules.
____________________________
Just as Planned.
#438 Jul 21 2016 at 3:44 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,440 posts
Timelordwho wrote:
Amusingly they are also always launched on Fridays so as not inconvenience people's work schedules.
Obviously all allied with big business. If they were really doing it for the people they'd revolt on a Monday so everyone had an excuse to skip out on work the rest of the week.
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#439 Jul 23 2016 at 1:08 AM Rating: Default
*
186 posts
gbaji wrote:
[quote=Palpitus1]I think you're misunderstanding me. I was not questioning your opinion of Erdogan. I was questioning your assumption that a replacement via coup would be better. History shows that the statement "it can't be worse than <insert bad thing here>" pretty consistently turns out to be false.


Not Turkish History, bro. Check it. Context. Statistical likelihood based on past precedent, per state, not per global.

Try to Laser-focus and learn things instead of knee-jerk!

I don't think you're misunderstanding my claim--rather that you're ignorant of your own, as you seem to think a Turkish coup is akin to any other coup. This is not so, my love. I will seek you in the Fortress of Regrets. My love
#440 Jul 25 2016 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
35,010 posts
Palpitus1 wrote:
gbaji wrote:
[quote=Palpitus1]I think you're misunderstanding me. I was not questioning your opinion of Erdogan. I was questioning your assumption that a replacement via coup would be better. History shows that the statement "it can't be worse than <insert bad thing here>" pretty consistently turns out to be false.


Not Turkish History, bro. Check it. Context. Statistical likelihood based on past precedent, per state, not per global.


I get it. But a statistical likelihood is not the same as a certainty. If you'd added the word "probably" to your original sentence, I'd have had no problem with it.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#441 Jul 26 2016 at 3:41 AM Rating: Default
*
186 posts
...

Edited, Jul 26th 2016 5:51am by Palpitus1
#442 Oct 02 2016 at 1:32 AM Rating: Default
*
186 posts
Granted, a few months ago but:

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/02/germany_recognizes_armenian_genocide_renewing_calls_for_u_s_to_do_the_same_and_for_obama_to_fulfill_his_promise/

"Germany’s parliament, the Bundestag, made history on Thursday by voting in a landslide to officially recognize the Armenian Genocide.

The historic decision renewed calls for the U.S., which has long remained silent on the issue, to do the same. On the eve of entering the White House more than seven years ago, Obama promised to recognize the genocide, yet has failed to do so."


As a senator, I strongly support passage of the Armenian Genocide Resolution (H.Res.106 and S.Res.106),” Obama said. “And as president I will recognize the Armenian Genocide,” he pledged. My bold, because come on.

Liar. Puppet of Erdogan Yes, really, on this issue. There is no other rationale for the lie and broken promise [I mean, if one assumes Obama is a moral/good person. At this point that is indeed in doubt]. Obama acknowledging this wouldn't break NATO. It wouldn't cause Turkey to leave NATO. Erdogan is pwning Obama on this issue. Incredibly pathetic and weak. So many hopes and dreams destroyed. No We Can't state a simple plain promised fact to state, that the Armenian Genocide was just that, a Genocide.

Not sure what legacy folks will remember of the Obama Admin, but re: Armenian Genocide, it should be seen as duplicitous lies, pandering to minorities that wield no power yet maybe a few votes gained from the lie, and being browbeaten and a puppet of a ****** leader of another country whose country committed said Genocide. I sure hope Armenian-Americans never, ever trust another word out of the mouth of any politician on this issue. Obama seemed the most likely to do it, even promised to do so, but didn't. So, Armenian-American voters [and obviously this may not be or should be your only issue; I'm just crystalizing things and being reductive and simple per the topic], just expect no one will and dismiss any claims by any politicians who promise such as lies. Trust is gone, via the US President's naked, egregious lies.



Edited, Oct 2nd 2016 6:42am by Palpitus1
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
#443 Oct 02 2016 at 5:52 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
I'm never voting for that Obama guy again. That'll teach him.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#444 Oct 02 2016 at 5:53 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
I'm never voting for that Obama guy again. That'll teach him.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#445 Oct 02 2016 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
***
1,065 posts
I'm never double posting again, that'll teach you guys.
____________________________
Timelordwho wrote:
I'm not quite sure that scheming is an emotion.
#446 Oct 02 2016 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
***
1,065 posts
I'm never double posting again, that'll teach you guys.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2016 9:49am by Kavekkk
____________________________
Timelordwho wrote:
I'm not quite sure that scheming is an emotion.
#447 Oct 02 2016 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
***
1,065 posts
I'm never double posting again, that'll teach you guys.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2016 9:49am by Kavekkk
____________________________
Timelordwho wrote:
I'm not quite sure that scheming is an emotion.
#448 Oct 02 2016 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
35,381 posts
Jophiel wrote:
I'm never voting for that Obama guy again. That'll teach him.
I never voted for him in the first place.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.


An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#449 Oct 02 2016 at 8:42 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
That's because you hate America.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#450 Oct 02 2016 at 8:44 AM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
35,381 posts
Jophiel wrote:
I'm never voting for that Obama guy again. That'll teach him.
I never voted for him in the first place.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.


An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#451 Oct 02 2016 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
3,462 posts
That's because you hate America.
____________________________
Dandruffshampoo wrote:
Curses, beaten by Professor stupidopo-opo.
Annabella, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Stupidmonkey is more organized than a bag of raccoons.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 50 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (50)