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#27 Mar 11 2014 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
I imagine right after we adopt the metric system in 2254 we'll probably drop Daylight Savings.


This somehow reminds me of the photo of Högertrafikomläggningen.
The first day in Sweden when they changed the side of the road that drive on.
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#28 Mar 11 2014 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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#29 Mar 11 2014 at 4:19 PM Rating: Good
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I would imagine that having Polyphasic sleep would make the transition easier. Maybe not for an hour, but for major time shifts. The hardest part of getting on schedule with a major time shift is staying awake and sleeping at a specific time.


Really depends on the type. UMSS is extremely rigid and responds awfully to any change, but if you're just sleeping 8 hours in chunks you're probably better at dealing with the side-effects if nothing else.

Personally, I flip to being nocturnal the second I have no pressing commitments, which is most weekends. An hour one way or the other is nothing.

Edited, Mar 11th 2014 10:20pm by Kavekk
#30 Mar 11 2014 at 7:52 PM Rating: Default
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Nadenu wrote:
Tennessee is considering dropping Daylight Saving. I'm all for it, as long as they keep Saving time and not Standard. Which is pretty much the norm anyway since we only follow Standard time for what, 2.5 months?


Other way around. Saving time is in the summer, Standard time is in the winter. The problem is that there's no good standard to use that doesn't cause some light issues. If you use standard time all year round, then it gets darker earlier (but still quite late, like 8PM), but sunrise will be earlier (like 4PM). Given that most people do tasks out and about after the work day rather than before, it kinda doesn't make sense to have several hours of daylight before you're even getting out of bed (hence, "wasting" that daylight).

There's a slightly better argument for keeping saving time all year round since gains in the morning are offset by losses at night (you're going to be either driving to or from work in the dark either way). I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes either way. One argument against it though, is that since kids go to school early enough to be affected by a late sunrise, but come home early enough to not be affected by an early sunset during winter, it's better to keep standard time during winter so as to minimize that whole "kids walking to school in the dark" issue.


Honestly, it doesn't really bother me either way, but it's not like there's zero reason to keep the time changes in place. I agree that it's less about energy savings than it may have once been, but I suspect that most people who've lived their entire lives with some form of daylight savings in the summer months would be surprised just how early the sun would come up in the summer without it.
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#31 Mar 11 2014 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll be in the minority...I say keep everything as is. I prefer waking up in the dark rather than going home in the dark.
#32 Mar 11 2014 at 8:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Tennessee is considering dropping Daylight Saving. I'm all for it, as long as they keep Saving time and not Standard. Which is pretty much the norm anyway since we only follow Standard time for what, 2.5 months?


Other way around. Saving time is in the summer, Standard time is in the winter.

I know, that's what I said. Keep the Saving time, not the Standard time.
#33 Mar 11 2014 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
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It used to be called war time, and it was implemented to conserve fuel and other stuff for the war effort. It was first used by the Germans in WW1.
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#34 Mar 12 2014 at 7:17 AM Rating: Good
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Nadenu wrote:
I know, that's what I said.
But you obviously don't know why you said it.
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#35 Mar 12 2014 at 7:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nadenu wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Tennessee is considering dropping Daylight Saving. I'm all for it, as long as they keep Saving time and not Standard. Which is pretty much the norm anyway since we only follow Standard time for what, 2.5 months?


Other way around. Saving time is in the summer, Standard time is in the winter.

I know, that's what I said. Keep the Saving time, not the Standard time.


Huh. That's weird. Total reading dyslexia on that one. Sheesh!

In any case, I agree with you to a point, but there are actually some issues with keeping savings time all the way through winter. Some people already complain that we wait too long to shift to standard time in the fall as it is (it's already dark too late in the morning for some). There's no perfect solution currently, although interestingly, it's possible that as computer technology and smart devices increase in common use, one may just present itself.


Theoretically, you could simply tie a set time to whatever time "dawn" is wherever you are. So arbitrarily declare that the sun rises at 6AM (or abandon that convention and call that "dawn" and just count time from that point if you want to really break from tradition). Point being that if every timekeeping device uses GPS to constantly adjust its time based on "seconds since dawn where I am", you can achieve the same thing we currently do with timezones, but at a gradual pace. The issue of scheduling ceases to be a problem because everything and everyone affected uses devices that also adjust based on current location. If a train leaves the station at location A at 5:23AM and arrives at location B at 6:12 AM, it doesn't really matter how long it took to get there (except to the passengers, but that's no different than traveling across timezones right now). What matters is that you can accurately schedule the trains arrival and departure at any given location with other events also occurring at the same location.

Local travel is unaffected because everyone "close" is on the same time. As you get farther apart, time changes become noticeable, but this is still no different than calling someone in a different timezone. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. And scheduling works just like it does now (with each party's schedule automatically changing to coordinate things). It's doable and would fix a whole lot of problems, but would absolutely require complete adoption of time adjusting technology. It's a neat idea though.
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#36 Mar 13 2014 at 4:57 AM Rating: Good
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That wasn't a very thoroughly thought out idea. Let's just squash it now and be done with it.
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#37 Mar 13 2014 at 6:20 AM Rating: Good
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#38 Mar 13 2014 at 9:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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This ain't the 1700's. Purge it with fire! Smiley: mad

One good thing to come from all this though, I got to see a pretty sunrise this morning.
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#39 Mar 13 2014 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
One good thing to come from all this though, I got to see a pretty sunrise this morning.


Through the blinds, through the curtains, off the TV screen, through your eyelids, nothing but retina.
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#40 Mar 13 2014 at 9:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
One good thing to come from all this though, I got to see a pretty sunrise this morning.


Through the blinds, through the curtains, off the TV screen, through your eyelids, nothing but retina.
NO no no no no. Smiley: oyvey

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#41 Mar 13 2014 at 5:53 PM Rating: Default
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
That wasn't a very thoroughly thought out idea. Let's just squash it now and be done with it.


It's a great idea. Well, a better than average one anyway. It's not the 18th century anymore. The problems we were solving with timezones and savings/standard time systems can be solved in other ways now. Computers don't care what the actual time is around them. They use epoc time to schedule things. We already start there and then convert to a timezone offset for human readable time right now, so there's absolutely zero reason why a computer can't use any offset methodology (like say the epoc time of dawn in the location the computer is at) to display time to humans.
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#42 Mar 13 2014 at 6:10 PM Rating: Good
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"Dawn" isn't a time per se. It's the gradual lightning of the sky before sunrise. Depending on local geography and your view of the horizon, it's not a constant even a mile by mile basis. How do we decide that the sky is light enough to call it dawn and start the clock? Did you mean "sunrise"? At least you can quantify when the top of the sun's orb has broken over the horizon although, again the horizon here ain't the horizon over yonder (mountains, hills, tree lines, etc).
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#43 Mar 13 2014 at 6:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Um... Sunrise then. Whatever. It's not like we don't already have precise methods of determining this. The point is that instead of having a fixed time and calculating what time sunrise is for each day, go the other way around. Adjust our clocks automatically to when the sun rises where we are. Presto! All problems with time zones, daylight savings, agricultural industries, businesses, scheduling, etc eliminated. Just requires that everyone use clocks that can automatically adjust like this. So your old alarm clock probably wont work anymore, but assuming you use a phone as your clock like every other sane person in the universe, it's all good.
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#44 Mar 13 2014 at 6:55 PM Rating: Good
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So are we talking a potentially infinite number of "time zones"? Or will we limit it somehow, say to the nearest hour to make it easily understandable?
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#45 Mar 13 2014 at 7:04 PM Rating: Excellent
gbaji wrote:
Um... Sunrise then. Whatever. It's not like we don't already have precise methods of determining this. The point is that instead of having a fixed time and calculating what time sunrise is for each day, go the other way around. Adjust our clocks automatically to when the sun rises where we are. Presto! All problems with time zones, daylight savings, agricultural industries, businesses, scheduling, etc eliminated. Just requires that everyone use clocks that can automatically adjust like this. So your old alarm clock probably wont work anymore, but assuming you use a phone as your clock like every other sane person in the universe, it's all good.


That sounds infinitely complicated for any business that is not local....
#46 Mar 13 2014 at 7:08 PM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
That sounds infinitely complicated for any business that is not local....


Sunrise also changes by 1-2 minutes every day throughout the year. So instead of a one time forward/backward of 1 hour, you'd have a 1-2 minute forward/backward every day.
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#47 Mar 13 2014 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Um... Sunrise then. Whatever. It's not like we don't already have precise methods of determining this. The point is that instead of having a fixed time and calculating what time sunrise is for each day, go the other way around. Adjust our clocks automatically to when the sun rises where we are. Presto! All problems with time zones, daylight savings, agricultural industries, businesses, scheduling, etc eliminated. Just requires that everyone use clocks that can automatically adjust like this. So your old alarm clock probably wont work anymore, but assuming you use a phone as your clock like every other sane person in the universe, it's all good.

Holy crap that's infinitely horrible. Everybody's clock is going to be different. How would you conduct business between, say, the East Coast and the West Coast when you have to co-ordinate between two specific clocks instead of timezones? This also assumes that *all* time-keeping devices are computerized and networked which, even though this is the 21st century, is nowhere near true (or even feasable) in first-world countries, let alone elsewhere.
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#48 Mar 13 2014 at 7:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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It'll be decided how everything else in the world is decided. NYC will set it and the rest will follow.
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#49 Mar 13 2014 at 7:46 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
It'll be decided how everything else in the world is decided. NYC will set it and the rest will follow.

Now that's a plan that'll work.
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#50 Mar 13 2014 at 7:59 PM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR wrote:
So are we talking a potentially infinite number of "time zones"? Or will we limit it somehow, say to the nearest hour to make it easily understandable?


Kinda. But really it's about not having "zones" at all. The reason we don't have greater granularity in time zones is because up until recently we didn't have any way to make automatic minor adjustments to the time based on position. Today, we do.
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#51 Mar 13 2014 at 7:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Um... Sunrise then. Whatever. It's not like we don't already have precise methods of determining this.

That's an estimation for a given place based on a clear line of sight to a hypothetical horizon. If you live in a river valley, sunrise is at a different time for you than for someone who lives upland.
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