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#1002 Oct 31 2014 at 7:55 AM Rating: Decent
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The point of the video wasn't "some people say good morning to others and that's harassment."

The point of the video was to demonstrate how differently experience is as different genders. I was shocked the first time I walked through NY with a female friend at how much attention she attracted just by being there. She's attractive, but she's not a model. And her look generally wouldn't be called approachable. All she wanted to do was walk from point A to B, not having strange men constantly going out of their way to put themselves in her consideration.

It's called a microaggression.

These are usually unintentionally given, but they are constant reminders that a marginalized group are supposed to be subject to controls that others aren't. When I walk through the city, I don't have to give it a second thought that people aren't going to be paying much attention to me at all. Women don't have that luxury, because they're constantly the subject of focused attention by men.

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I need to re-examine my life, because I apparently harassed something like forty-five people yesterday alone(many of them guys!). I mean, it's normally not that many, but I went to the grocery store and it was kinda busy.


It's the same as holding the door for someone. Hold it for everyone? No problem. Only hold it for women (or biased in favor of women)? Creepy and belittling. Unfortunately, the woman has no context for whether or not you'd hold it for everyone, and that sucks, but I'd still say that holding the door for people is a praiseworthy act.

Generally speaking, things that are associated with manners are just things you can keep doing, as long as you treat both genders the same. Decide that for yourself, because there's no good solution here.

Caveat: If asking a stranger where they need to go on the elevator, ALWAYS press your button first. Elevators are really common places for assaults, and being followed by a stranger on the elevator is another poignant fear (particularly in residential buildings). By indicating where you are going first, that can be a big comfort. Particularly if you're going to a lower floor than she is.

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If you knew even 10% of my life


Oh, please, regale me with the tales that prove it's impossible for you to be sexist. Smiley: rolleyes
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#1003 Oct 31 2014 at 8:01 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Well, at least we know the Democrats will retake Congress in 2016.
Must be an extrapolation from how Texas is totally going to be blue by then.
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#1004 Oct 31 2014 at 8:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory wrote:
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If you knew even 10% of my life


Oh, please, regale me with the tales that prove it's impossible for you to be sexist. Smiley: rolleyes
Again, that's not what I said. I said I didn't live in an echo chamber. How about I just sit on my keyboard and you interpret what I said however you want regardless of what's posted? That's what you're gonna do anyway.

idiggory wrote:
It's the same as holding the door for someone. Hold it for everyone? No problem. Only hold it for women (or biased in favor of women)? Creepy and belittling. Unfortunately, the woman has no context for whether or not you'd hold it for everyone, and that sucks, but I'd still say that holding the door for people is a praiseworthy act.

Generally speaking, things that are associated with manners are just things you can keep doing, as long as you treat both genders the same. Decide that for yourself, because there's no good solution here.
Then why not just assume it's just someone being polite in those cases where it has a good chance of that being the case? Why even put those on there? I know what the point of the video was. I'm not blind. It's just that in ten hours there had to be ten seconds more that would have served the condensed video more than what was used and it boggles my mind that the creator would bother using those.
#1005 Oct 31 2014 at 8:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory wrote:
The point of the video wasn't "some people say good morning to others and that's harassment."

If someone's going to present the video in a vacuum then people are going to take what they take from it. If that's "wrong" then someone needs to do a better job presenting the video (not you, but the video itself doesn't say much beyond "Watch these guys hassle this woman").
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#1006 Oct 31 2014 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
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How about I just sit on my keyboard and you interpret what I said however you want regardless of what's posted? That's what you're gonna do anyway.


Can I get in on this?

Poldaran wrote:
Go ahead.


Thanks, man. Anything else to say?

Poldaran wrote:
Only that you're incredible in every single way. I know a lot of posters here pretend not to be impressed, but that's all it is, a pretense. Deep down they're all jealous of your ten inch **** and universally Excellent posts.

Also, Gamergate sucks industrial amounts of horse ****. I repent from my wicked ways.


That's some real talk, Poldaran.
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#1007 Oct 31 2014 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
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This filter is ruining my life.
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#1008 Oct 31 2014 at 9:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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It certainly isn't making the Vindictus people's lives any easier.
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#1009 Oct 31 2014 at 9:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
It certainly isn't making the Vindictus people's lives any easier.

Smiley: laugh
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1010 Oct 31 2014 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
It certainly isn't making the Vindictus people's lives any easier.

*mutters something incomprehensible, but you think you can make out the words "didn't know the site was supposed to make money"*

Edit: I really really want to link him to this, but I don't think the admins would appreciate it in the Feedback forum. NSFW, btw.

Edited, Oct 31st 2014 9:22am by Poldaran
#1011 Oct 31 2014 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
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Omgosh, this thread is like the last old pair of undies in the drawer. You know they're going to crawl up your crack, but you wear them anyways

I'm going commando next time.

Here's a complimentary video of a dude walking down the streets of NYC. No connection to gg. It was linked on my fb page - my non-gaming fb page, by a friend with no knowledge or care about gamer'sgate nonsense. I tried to explain to her about it, but she laughed at me and says this is what comes from playing with nerdy boys. Smiley: glare

You're all an embarrassment. Happy Halloween.

BOO
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#1012 Oct 31 2014 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
We don't have any scientific evidence for biological processes that lead women to compete for male attention (and for most other animals, males compete for female attention). And we've looked.


I suppose I used biology a little freely there. I was referring to "survival of the fittest" in reference to why women/men compete for each other's affections. You could argue that it's a psychological process, but psychology would be a branch of biology. It's all electrochemical reactions, baby!
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#1013 Oct 31 2014 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
*mutters something incomprehensible, but you think you can make out the words "didn't know the site was supposed to make money"*
I've been fighting the urge to find a picture of the Insane Clown Posse and caption it "OPERATING EXPENSES, HOW DO THEY WORK?!" for the last half hour.
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#1014 Oct 31 2014 at 9:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Here's a complimentary video of a dude walking down the streets of NYC

If there's not a non-threateningly attractive woman in it, I'm not interested.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1015 Oct 31 2014 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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Again, that's not what I said. I said I didn't live in an echo chamber.


That's fair.

Quote:
No, not every man on the street is out to harass women, but ENOUGH are that it can feel really uncomfortable and overwhelming to walk down the street and decipher the nice guys from the creeps. It's a tough space to navigate, and that's why these conversations are so important!


This author is more skilled and reasonable than I am.
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#1016 Oct 31 2014 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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10 hours, but only 90 seconds of footage. Released in the wake of GamerGate, and the organisation's description of the video contains - as the very first thing - a link to a donations page.

Is it okay for me to be skeptical?
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#1017 Oct 31 2014 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Mazra wrote:
10 hours, but only 90 seconds of footage. Released in the wake of GamerGate, and the organisation's description of the video contains - as the very first thing - a link to a donations page.

Is it okay for me to be skeptical?


No, because you're only tuned into it because of gamergate (which, hey, potential plus side of the conversation).

These sorts of videos come out all the time. They even go viral. That doesn't mean you're watching them. Would I have linked it here if we weren't having a conversation about feminism? Of course not. Would you have seen it elsewhere? Maybe, maybe not. I have no clue what other sites you visit on the internet. I tend to see them because of Facebook and Tumblr, specifically because of feminist friends/blogs.

Quote:
If someone's going to present the video in a vacuum then people are going to take what they take from it. If that's "wrong" then someone needs to do a better job presenting the video (not you, but the video itself doesn't say much beyond "Watch these guys hassle this woman").


That's probably fair. I just linked the video out of the editorial description of it. I probably should have linked the whole thing - I thought I was making it easier to access, but maybe I removed info. That info probably should have been in the video, but I definitely didn't help it.

[EDIT]

Also, there HAVE been some serious criticisms of the video - that it edited out comments she received from white guys. I hope that's not true, because that's pretty reprehensible. The agency's claim is that they got plenty of white comments (which I don't doubt), but that they were all completely ruined by background noise or the speaker was off camera when they gave them.

Slate has critiqued their decision to release the video from this take, instead of doing it a second time. I'd have to agree.

Edited, Oct 31st 2014 1:29pm by idiggory
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#1018 Oct 31 2014 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
10 hours, but only 90 seconds of footage. Released in the wake of GamerGate, and the organisation's description of the video contains - as the very first thing - a link to a donations page.

Is it okay for me to be skeptical?

Sure, be skeptical but this girl video was linked on my fb page last week - again by a person that has no knowledge of gaming, or it's scandals. I have some women friends, mostly co-workers but also my biker cousin babe (dare I call them feminists?) They've been socially aware and in tune with the modern movement and linking me similar stuff, regularly and for the last couple years (since our fb friendship began).

I liken gamergate to a Kardashian.


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#1019 Oct 31 2014 at 11:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory wrote:
These sorts of videos come out all the time. They even go viral.
Okay, I wasn't the only one thinking I'd seen stuff like this 1,000 times then. Have we reached the point where everyone knows about it, everyone hates it, but no one really knows how to stop it yet? Because it kind of feels like we're there.

Not long ago I was waiting at a bus stop and had was having a conversation with another guy, then he starts cat-calling a couple of women who jog by. Talk about your awkward situations...
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#1020 Oct 31 2014 at 11:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
the organisation's description of the video contains - as the very first thing - a link to a donations page.

The whole thing was financed and done by an advocacy organization so that's not especially surprising. Doesn't mean it's "fake" either, of course.
someproteinguy wrote:
Okay, I wasn't the only one thinking I'd seen stuff like this 1,000 times then.

Apparently it was a bit on The Daily Show however long ago. So, no, not especially new-news.

Edited, Oct 31st 2014 12:53pm by Jophiel
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#1021 Oct 31 2014 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
Is it okay for me to be skeptical?
Any time there's a donation page linked immediately on a video, you should immediately be skeptical. Don't be dismissive, mind you, but when money's involved, it doesn't hurt to ask a few questions. This is regardless of what the donation's for, though obviously if they're linking directly to donations for some organization you already believe in, due diligence might be a little less since you probably already know a bit about that organization.

My quick overlook on it didn't raise any red flags with this one, though.
#1022 Oct 31 2014 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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Ya. Jessica did a piece on the daily show. Also about how when she got home she had to pretend a guy was inside waiting for her so that she'd be safe. Pretend she did not live alone. Funny, kinda sad in a way, and obviously exaggerated for comedic purposes.

Being from a town of 7000 people total, I guess I don't get to see the kind of thing these videos are claiming. I mean, ya, guys at work will talk about and look at the new girl but usually not in their general vicinity. I guess in a way it's not "good" either but at least it's not harassment to discuss attractive people amongst friends.
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#1023 Oct 31 2014 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Ya. Jessica did a piece on the daily show. Also about how when she got home she had to pretend a guy was inside waiting for her so that she'd be safe. Pretend she did not live alone. Funny, kinda sad in a way, and obviously exaggerated for comedic purposes.

When I was about around 17 and venturing out on my own, my dad gave me an old pair of his boots - just for deception. I'd leave them visibly on the floor of my car, stick them outside my tent when camping, etc.




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#1024 Oct 31 2014 at 1:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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The last time I left boots outside a tent I woke up to a camel spider crawling out of them.
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#1025 Oct 31 2014 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
Mazra wrote:
10 hours, but only 90 seconds of footage. Released in the wake of GamerGate, and the organisation's description of the video contains - as the very first thing - a link to a donations page.

Is it okay for me to be skeptical?


No, because you're only tuned into it because of gamergate (which, hey, potential plus side of the conversation).

These sorts of videos come out all the time. They even go viral. That doesn't mean you're watching them. Would I have linked it here if we weren't having a conversation about feminism? Of course not. Would you have seen it elsewhere? Maybe, maybe not. I have no clue what other sites you visit on the internet. I tend to see them because of Facebook and Tumblr, specifically because of feminist friends/blogs.


Honestly, I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this. Could you clarify why I'm not allowed to be skeptical about this video?

I saw the video two days ago here: http://ekstrabladet.dk/vrangen/article5272847.ece
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#1026 Oct 31 2014 at 7:12 PM Rating: Default
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Elinda wrote:
Omgosh, this thread is like the last old pair of undies in the drawer. You know they're going to crawl up your crack, but you wear them anyways

I'm going commando next time.

Here's a complimentary video of a dude walking down the streets of NYC. No connection to gg. It was linked on my fb page - my non-gaming fb page, by a friend with no knowledge or care about gamer'sgate nonsense. I tried to explain to her about it, but she laughed at me and says this is what comes from playing with nerdy boys. Smiley: glare

You're all an embarrassment. Happy Halloween.

BOO


"Buddy, take this chipotl" was my favorite part.

I will say this; the moment patriarchy members start getting chipotle as part of the secret society, feminism is dead to me.



Edited, Oct 31st 2014 9:24pm by angrymnk
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