Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3 4 5
Reply To Thread

Not a thread about this one: Common Core (no?)Follow

#1 Sep 04 2014 at 9:19 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,543 posts
Lately there has been a lot of stink (so much stink) over the subject of Common Core in public schools. When I first heard of this, it was, for a very short while, the focus of certain folks with the intent to make it into the new petty little molehill for people who are bored with their lives to be outraged over, calling it "Obama Core."

Today, I see people posting links like these:

http://rare.us/story/watch-common-core-take-56-seconds-to-solve-96/

So what then. Am I supposed to be up in arms now that schools are teaching kids problem solving, or that someone Obama has something to do with it?

Now, I haven't read anything into it. I know nothing about Common Core. I ask them what exactly the problem is with Common Core, and I cannot get a real answer. "It doesn't make- make- let kids have special assignments! All the kids have to have the same thing ... same assignments and learn at the same pace!"

Smiley: confused

"Are you trying to say there are no more gifted type classes?" I ask.

"No. I don't know."

Long story short. It's bad because Obama, public schools are evil, and the evening news needed something to bait their attention with. I still haven't read anything at all about Common Core. How far off am I?
____________________________
Galkaman wrote:
Kuwoobie will die crushed under the burden of his mediocrity.

#2 Sep 05 2014 at 3:33 AM Rating: Excellent
******
27,272 posts
Obamacore sounds like something a politically inspired metalband would play.
#3 Sep 05 2014 at 6:17 AM Rating: Excellent
Lunatic
******
30,086 posts
I ask them what exactly the problem is with Common Core

It's the same problem with all testing based curricula, it values rote memorization over virtually everything else and removes the ability of teachers to tailor lessons to their students. Also the method has been shown to NOT WORK pretty much forever now, but since it SOUNDS PLAUSIBLE if you aren't familiar with the research, it'll have traction forever and ever politically.

It's not really an ideological issue. "High stakes" testing isn't effective for teachers or students. It is known.
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#4 Sep 05 2014 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,781 posts
Smasharoo wrote:
I ask them what exactly the problem is with Common Core

It's the same problem with all testing based curricula, it values rote memorization over virtually everything else and removes the ability of teachers to tailor lessons to their students. Also the method has been shown to NOT WORK pretty much forever now, but since it SOUNDS PLAUSIBLE if you aren't familiar with the research, it'll have traction forever and ever politically.

It's not really an ideological issue. "High stakes" testing isn't effective for teachers or students. It is known.

Seems that the math they show in the OP example was trying to utilize techniques beyond simple rote memorization.

Instead of simply memorizing that 9+6=15, the student is taught to use the base 10 system to create a simple method of adding stuff together.

Still, most of the complaints I've heard from teachers has been the necessity to teach to the test.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#5 Sep 05 2014 at 9:50 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,666 posts
Kuwoobie wrote:
I ask them what exactly the problem is with Common Core
Here's a nice quote that I think sums up part of the problem:

Quote:
When discussing politics, citizens should speak to one another as clearly and sincerely as possible. Right now, the Common Core literature uses technical terms and tortuous prose to sell an educational philosophy that may not deliver what it promises.


Really they're using a good number of methods teachers have used, things that they've learned from research, etc. There is grounding to what they're doing. They, however, aren't necessarily doing a good job of getting the message out. Part of this is simply communication difficulties that will be able to be overcome, other parts of this are a problem because there are plenty of cases where teachers don't really understand the theory behind what they're trying to do. That's a recipe for disaster.

On another hand they're still pushing high stakes "testing" like mentioned previously. It's not only that, but they're also pushing it on younger students more heavily than in the past. This has a good motive in that they're hoping to identify shortcomings in students while they still are young enough to possibly overcome these issues. However you're still forcing an 8 year old to take a high stakes test, which is problematic in itself. While having high standards and expectations isn't without merit you also have to consider this is putting more strain on the students and teachers. It's not like people are clamoring to add additional funding to help with the education process. Teachers are simply expected to do more with what they already have, which doesn't sit well with many people either.

All in all it's a bit of a mess, some of it has more to do with misperceptions than reality. In my mind the biggest problems are that it does nothing to deter "teaching to the test" instead it's almost more "teaching to the test" and they're just doing that in a different way now. Fixing the wrong problem and such. You have people on the left upset at these standardized tests left over from the no child left behind thing, and people on the right upset that they're pushing rather oddball ideas which haven't been vetted to the degree they'd like.

Anyway homeschooling is going good still. Smiley: thumbsup
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#6 Sep 05 2014 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
19 posts
Smasharoo wrote:
I ask them what exactly the problem is with Common Core

It's the same problem with all testing based curricula, it values rote memorization over virtually everything else and removes the ability of teachers to tailor lessons to their students. Also the method has been shown to NOT WORK pretty much forever now, but since it SOUNDS PLAUSIBLE if you aren't familiar with the research, it'll have traction forever and ever politically.

It's not really an ideological issue. "High stakes" testing isn't effective for teachers or students. It is known.


Actually Common Core was specifically intended to avoid rote memorization. They don't give kids Multiplication Tables anymore, and Flash Cards are viewed extremely dimly. The problem I have with Common Core is that, as best I can tell, it values the approach over the result. Meaning that within Common Core curricula it is entirely possible to get an incorrect answer to a math problem yet still receive credit for that answer because the correct steps were taken to arrive at the incorrect answer.

The basic idea is that it teaches "problem solving" instead of "memorizing answers", but the problem is that the problem solving steps are ludicrous and frankly make no sense whatsoever. My kid understands it pretty well but I'm still having a lot of trouble wrapping my head around it. If I help her with homework it's a pretty safe bet she's going to fare worse than if I let her struggle alone, which bothers me immensely. Unfortunately I'm not about to learn how to do math all over again so the best I can offer her are tips and pointers, if I try to work through problems with her she winds up having to teach me.

This video pretty much sums up my feelings on CC math:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA

Cog
my best friend is a 10
#7 Sep 05 2014 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
*******
50,767 posts
someproteinguy wrote:
Anyway homeschooling is going good still. Smiley: thumbsup
Prom night is going to be awkward.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#8 Sep 05 2014 at 10:31 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,666 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Anyway homeschooling is going good still. Smiley: thumbsup
Prom night is going to be awkward.
TBH I'll be impressed if we make it that far. The kids are getting smarter and I'm getting older. Smiley: rolleyes
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#9 Sep 05 2014 at 1:12 PM Rating: Excellent
Every time I see a thing getting shared that demonstrates how "hard" Common Core is, I read through the word problem and determine that it's more or less how I've been doing math in my head since I can recall.

You don't always have a pen and paper handy if you want to figure out what 657-293 is on the fly. But if you know that you can add -7 to the -293 to make it a nice round -300, then subtract 657-300 to get 357, then just add the 7 back again to get 364, you get a nice fast solution to the problem without having to write it down. That's the skill Common Core is trying to teach.

They just don't do a very good job explaining to teachers how to explain it to kids (or parents.) Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Sep 5th 2014 3:17pm by Catwho
#10 Sep 05 2014 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
Lunatic
******
30,086 posts
Actually Common Core was specifically intended to avoid rote memorization.

Bullshit. Rote memorization of technique isn't more useful than rote memorization of facts. It doesn't teach problem solving, not does it test for it. Learning is about each child developing critical thinking based on how they learn, individually. Forcing kids who can easily memorize things to lean mind numbing "strategies" for multiplication is idiotic. Forcing them to demonstrate said strategies as an end in lieu of letting them just provide the correct answer is detrimental.

____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#11 Sep 05 2014 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
Lunatic
******
30,086 posts
Anyway homeschooling is going good still

What makes you think you can possibly judge? Oh, the thing you decided because you thought it would be better for everyone is working out based on your opinion of yourself?

Amazing.
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#12 Sep 05 2014 at 2:32 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,666 posts
Pretty much. Smiley: grin

Or do you have a yardstick you'd like to recommend I use?
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#13 Sep 05 2014 at 3:07 PM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
******
29,360 posts
A standardized test?
____________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#14 Sep 05 2014 at 3:21 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
10,601 posts
Hunger games
____________________________
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ
#15 Sep 05 2014 at 3:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Citizen's Arrest!
******
29,527 posts
someproteinguy wrote:
Or do you have a yardstick you'd like to recommend I use?

Ah. Catholic Homeschooling.

Edited, Sep 5th 2014 3:36pm by Poldaran
#16 Sep 05 2014 at 3:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,666 posts
Samira wrote:
A standardized test?
Not until second grade, for better or for worse. A lot of reading "what your child should know by grade X" and getting her there a couple of years earlier. There's various workbooks and curricula out there as well that have an age/grade range.

Sir Xsarus wrote:
Hunger games
I'm not sure I trust them with a weapon yet. Smiley: um

Edited, Sep 5th 2014 2:37pm by someproteinguy
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#17 Sep 05 2014 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,666 posts
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Or do you have a yardstick you'd like to recommend I use?

Ah. Catholic Homeschooling.
Lutheran man, get it right! Smiley: mad
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#18 Sep 05 2014 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
Citizen's Arrest!
******
29,527 posts
someproteinguy wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Or do you have a yardstick you'd like to recommend I use?

Ah. Catholic Homeschooling.
Lutheran man, get it right! Smiley: mad
Do Lutheran nuns also beat their students with yardsticks? Are there even Lutheran nuns?
#19 Sep 05 2014 at 4:04 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,666 posts
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Or do you have a yardstick you'd like to recommend I use?

Ah. Catholic Homeschooling.
Lutheran man, get it right! Smiley: mad
Do Lutheran nuns also beat their students with yardsticks? Are there even Lutheran nuns?
Not really, but the beating with yardsticks thing sounds about right.
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#20 Sep 05 2014 at 7:59 PM Rating: Decent
Prodigal Son
******
20,643 posts
Smasharoo wrote:
Actually Common Core was specifically intended to avoid rote memorization.

Bullshit. Rote memorization of technique isn't more useful than rote memorization of facts. It doesn't teach problem solving, not does it test for it. Learning is about each child developing critical thinking based on how they learn, individually. Forcing kids who can easily memorize things to lean mind numbing "strategies" for multiplication is idiotic. Forcing them to demonstrate said strategies as an end in lieu of letting them just provide the correct answer is detrimental.

My 8th grade Algebra teacher wasn't too impressed with the worksheets I turned in featuring my pontilism-inspired tapping method. I could do a lot of work in my head if I could tap it out on the desk. It focused my visual problem-solving skills, or something. But it worked, and I was under the naive impression that was what counted.
____________________________
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#21 Sep 05 2014 at 8:04 PM Rating: Decent
Prodigal Son
******
20,643 posts
Catwho wrote:
Every time I see a thing getting shared that demonstrates how "hard" Common Core is, I read through the word problem and determine that it's more or less how I've been doing math in my head since I can recall.

You don't always have a pen and paper handy if you want to figure out what 657-293 is on the fly. But if you know that you can add -7 to the -293 to make it a nice round -300, then subtract 657-300 to get 357, then just add the 7 back again to get 364, you get a nice fast solution to the problem without having to write it down. That's the skill Common Core is trying to teach.

They just don't do a very good job explaining to teachers how to explain it to kids (or parents.) Smiley: rolleyes

7-3=4
(1)5-9=6
65-2=3
364
That takes about five seconds in my head.
____________________________
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#22 Sep 05 2014 at 8:05 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,543 posts
Debalic wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
Actually Common Core was specifically intended to avoid rote memorization.

Bullshit. Rote memorization of technique isn't more useful than rote memorization of facts. It doesn't teach problem solving, not does it test for it. Learning is about each child developing critical thinking based on how they learn, individually. Forcing kids who can easily memorize things to lean mind numbing "strategies" for multiplication is idiotic. Forcing them to demonstrate said strategies as an end in lieu of letting them just provide the correct answer is detrimental.

My 8th grade Algebra teacher wasn't too impressed with the worksheets I turned in featuring my pontilism-inspired tapping method. I could do a lot of work in my head if I could tap it out on the desk. It focused my visual problem-solving skills, or something. But it worked, and I was under the naive impression that was what counted.


Ahah. When I was a kid, I never paid attention in math class. I frequently made up my own ways to solve problems that completely perplexed my teachers, who then marked them wrong, whether or not the answer was right.
____________________________
Galkaman wrote:
Kuwoobie will die crushed under the burden of his mediocrity.

#23 Sep 05 2014 at 9:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Gurue
*****
16,299 posts
I prefer my son's approach - don't do your school work at all. Smiley: bah
#24 Sep 05 2014 at 9:45 PM Rating: Good
Worst. Title. Ever!
*****
17,302 posts
Nadenu wrote:
I prefer my son's approach - don't do your school work at all. Smiley: bah

Worked for me.
____________________________
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
#25 Sep 06 2014 at 6:54 AM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,265 posts
Catwho wrote:
Every time I see a thing getting shared that demonstrates how "hard" Common Core is, I read through the word problem and determine that it's more or less how I've been doing math in my head since I can recall.

You don't always have a pen and paper handy if you want to figure out what 657-293 is on the fly. But if you know that you can add -7 to the -293 to make it a nice round -300, then subtract 657-300 to get 357, then just add the 7 back again to get 364, you get a nice fast solution to the problem without having to write it down. That's the skill Common Core is trying to teach.

They just don't do a very good job explaining to teachers how to explain it to kids (or parents.) Smiley: rolleyes


I figured this out in like middle school. It really simplifies things.

Debalic wrote:
7-3=4
(1)5-9=6
65-2=3
364
That takes about five seconds in my head.

Yes, but the concept simplifies more difficult problems like (350)(12) or calculating 24% of 340.

Smasharoo wrote:
What makes you think you can possibly judge?

I never understood why non-educators think that their children are getting a better education at home than school because they don't like the school's curricula. Even if the school was only teaching 75% of the necessary material, I would only have to teach 25% of the material and I would still have time to work and do other adult things.
#26 Sep 06 2014 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
Worst. Title. Ever!
*****
17,302 posts
Almalieque wrote:
I never understood why non-educators think that their children are getting a better education at home than school because they don't like the school's curricula. Even if the school was only teaching 75% of the necessary material, I would only have to teach 25% of the material and I would still have time to work and do other adult things.


The main reason I've seen is religion. It's not so much that they can teach better, but that they can choose to exclude certain things that they don't agree with.
____________________________
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
« Previous 1 2 3 4 5
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 250 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (250)