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#252 Feb 12 2015 at 8:33 PM Rating: Decent
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House Republicans are demanding that McConnell abolish the filibuster for spending bills so they can pass their DHS funding legislation

So it can be vetoed 35 seconds later? WTF?
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#253 Feb 13 2015 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
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What better place to fulfill your platform of reduced government powers with than getting rid of a tool you don't need anymore and might be used against you in the future?

Edited, Feb 13th 2015 9:28am by lolgaxe
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#254 Feb 13 2015 at 9:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
So it can be vetoed 35 seconds later? WTF?

Hey, I didn't say that they were SMART in demanding it...

Yes, eliminating the filibuster would be one of the dumber things McConnell could do but I suspect that, with his Methuselah-many years in the Senate, he already knows that.
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#255 Feb 13 2015 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
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Isn't McConnell the filibuster master.

Not very nice to ask him to give up his most effective tool.
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#256 Feb 13 2015 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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Not very nice to ask him to give up his most effective tool.

Wouldn't that be Ted Cruz? I mean, leaving aside the effectiveness part.

Hey-o!
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#257 Feb 13 2015 at 3:49 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Not very nice to ask him to give up his most effective tool.

Wouldn't that be Ted Cruz? I mean, leaving aside the effectiveness part.

Hey-o!

Yeah, honestly I think I got them mixed up...or unintentionally morphed into a single entity.
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#258 Feb 13 2015 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Except it's only protected speech if it's your flag.

No, it's protected speech either way. That doesn't shield you from responsibility for stealing the flag or destroying someone else's property of course but the anti-desecration laws that have been repeatedly found to be unconstitutional don't suddenly become valid that way.


First off, I think we're just quibbling over the term "protected". Protected speech doesn't mean that you can break other laws to do it. Which is relevant in this case, and the point I was making. Whether it's free speech or not is irrelevant when the action you are performing if said speech involves damage to property that is not privately owned by you. I also think that it's questionable as to whether this was "speech" at all. Some speech takes the form of vandalism, but not all vandalism is speech.

Additionally, in the case of flag desecration laws, they are unconstitutional only within this private property context. You are free to burn your own flag as a method of protest, but if you burn someone else's flag, you may come under additional charges beyond just destruction of property (I suppose depending on whatever applicable laws may exist in the state/city/whatever you're in).

For reference, United States V. Eichman says the following:

Quote:
Today's decision does not affect the extent to which the Government's interest in protecting publicly owned flags might justify special measures on their behalf. See Spence v. Washington, 418 U.S. 405, 408-409 (1974); cf. Johnson, supra, at 412-413, n. 8.


Spence v. Washington states the following:

Quote:
A number of factors are important in the instant case. First, this was a privately owned flag. In a technical property sense, it was not the property of any government. [p409] We have no doubt that the State or National Governments constitutionally may forbid anyone from mishandling in any manner a flag that is public property. But this is a different case.


To be fair, I'm not willing to research this to the extent of discovering if anyone has ever been charged and convicted of flag desecration of a public flag via some relevant statute in say the last 30 years or so, but my admittedly brief look see hasn't turned up a case where charging someone under that condition was found to be unconstitutional. Take from that what you will.

I'll also point out that none of this means I'm recommending throwing the book at the kid.

Edited, Feb 13th 2015 6:28pm by gbaji
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#259 Feb 13 2015 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Yes, eliminating the filibuster would be one of the dumber things McConnellReid could do but I suspect that, with his Methuselah-many years in the Senate, he already knows that.


FTFY
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#260 Feb 13 2015 at 8:05 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I'll also point out that none of this means I'm recommending throwing the book at the kid.
His classmates would have that covered.
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#261 Feb 13 2015 at 8:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Yes, eliminating the filibuster would be one of the dumber things McConnellReid could do but I suspect that, with his Methuselah-many years in the Senate, he already knows that.
FTFY

Well, Reid can't eliminate the filibuster at the moment so I'm not sure what you "fixed".

Although, yes, eliminating it during his tenure would have been dumb since he still wouldn't have gotten Senate legislation past the House. Eliminating it for confirming appointments wasn't dumb since the Senate could act alone.

McConnell eliminating it would be stupid since, if he can't reach 60 votes, he's obviously not going to hit 67 votes to override a veto and he knows the GOP grasp on Senate control is likely very time limited.

Edited, Feb 13th 2015 8:16pm by Jophiel
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#262 Feb 13 2015 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I'll also point out that none of this means I'm recommending throwing the book at the kid.
His classmates would have that covered.


Needs a /rimshot
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#263 Feb 13 2015 at 8:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Yes, eliminating the filibuster would be one of the dumber things McConnellReid could do but I suspect that, with his Methuselah-many years in the Senate, he already knows that.
FTFY

Well, Reid can't eliminate the filibuster at the moment so I'm not sure what you "fixed".


Um... Really?

Quote:
Although, yes, eliminating it during his tenure would have been dumb since he still wouldn't have gotten Senate legislation past the House. Eliminating it for confirming appointments wasn't dumb since the Senate could act alone.


If you're only looking at this from an extremely short term point of view, I suppose you have a point. The act of eliminating it for anything at all establishes that it can be eliminated. Period. What you did it for really doesn't matter. The point is that Reid established that precedent.

Quote:
McConnell eliminating it would be stupid since, if he can't reach 60 votes, he's obviously not going to hit 67 votes to override a veto and he knows the GOP grasp on Senate control is likely very time limited.


Out of the list of reasons why it would be stupid, that's very very far down the list. What makes it "dumb" is that the same lack of check against simple majority can be used against you in the future. Which is precisely why Reid was dumb to do it last session for the ultimately silly purpose of pushing a few nominations through. Hugely damaging effect on our system of government for a very short term benefit to his party. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

Way to miss the forest for one very very small tree though.
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#264 Feb 13 2015 at 8:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Um... Really?

Really.

Quote:
If you're only looking at this from an extremely short term point of view, I suppose you have a point. The act of eliminating it for anything at all establishes that it can be eliminated. Period.

Well, duh. Like spilling some water out of a glass establishes that water can be spilled out of a glass. Before Reid eliminated the filibuster for most confirmations, exactly 100% of people interested in the topic knew that the filibuster could be eliminated. Afterwards, that number jumped to 100%.

Quote:
Out of the list of reasons why it would be stupid, that's very very far down the list.

No, it's number one on the list. You cute little political virgin, you.
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#265 Feb 13 2015 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
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What do they suspend students for fighting these days? A week?
10 days seems ludicrous for petty vandalism. Most schools struggle to even fit in all the subject matter they intend to cover in the amount of school days alotted.
Why not just give him 5 days detention?
#266 Feb 13 2015 at 8:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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#267 Feb 13 2015 at 8:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have to admit, I haven't been paying attention. How did these little scamps end up throwing a bunch of crap out of the window, anyway?
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#268 Feb 13 2015 at 8:55 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
I have to admit, I haven't been paying attention. How did these little scamps end up throwing a bunch of crap out of the window, anyway?


I'd imagine they picked up some items. and throw them out a window after opening it.

I don't know what you remember about school, but things aren't all that organized all the time. I had plenty of classes where there was free time that we were able to walk around the classroom and visit with friends.

Edit:
What Joph said...

Edited, Feb 13th 2015 10:05pm by TirithRR
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#269 Feb 13 2015 at 8:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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...and throw them out the window?
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#270 Feb 13 2015 at 9:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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DEFENESTRATE HIM!
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#271 Feb 13 2015 at 9:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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But anyway, not being supervised by Scrooge isn't exactly next door to throwing the classroom fixtures out of windows. I just did a quick search and found lots of hits along the lines of "student throws flag out of classroom window" but nothing saying what led up to it. Just curious, really.
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#272 Feb 13 2015 at 9:14 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
But anyway, not being supervised by Scrooge isn't exactly next door to throwing the classroom fixtures out of windows. I just did a quick search and found lots of hits along the lines of "student throws flag out of classroom window" but nothing saying what led up to it. Just curious, really.


My Junior year of high school I had a few English courses that were pretty open. We just got to do pretty much anything we wanted. In Junior High half of our English classes were relative free time for project work, and when it was group projects we were allowed to move around the class and sit in groups, etc. Sometimes up along the counters on the wall where the windows were, the teachers thought nothing of it. During the nicer days the windows would be open. Most of them had no screens.

I haven't seen any pictures of the flag in question, but I can't imagine it was one of the 7 foot pole flags. Most of our class rooms had flags on maybe 2 foot or 3 foot dowels?
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#273 Feb 13 2015 at 9:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know, that's the sort of detail that's missing from every report I've seen. Was he hanging out with friends being silly and stupid? Did he shout "Take that, running dog imperialists"? Were they drunk? We don't know!
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#274 Feb 13 2015 at 9:24 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
I don't know, that's the sort of detail that's missing from every report I've seen. Was he hanging out with friends being silly and stupid? Did he shout "Take that, running dog imperialists"? Were they drunk? We don't know!


I think the article linked says he and a group of students were just tossing things out the window (erasers, etc.) and he decided to go one step further and toss the flag.

So I assume they were just hanging out with friends and being stupid, tossing things out the window.
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#275 Feb 13 2015 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
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running dog imperialist

My Navajo name, coincidentally.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#276 Feb 14 2015 at 9:37 AM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR wrote:
Samira wrote:
But anyway, not being supervised by Scrooge isn't exactly next door to throwing the classroom fixtures out of windows. I just did a quick search and found lots of hits along the lines of "student throws flag out of classroom window" but nothing saying what led up to it. Just curious, really.


My Junior year of high school I had a few English courses that were pretty open. We just got to do pretty much anything we wanted. In Junior High half of our English classes were relative free time for project work, and when it was group projects we were allowed to move around the class and sit in groups, etc. Sometimes up along the counters on the wall where the windows were, the teachers thought nothing of it. During the nicer days the windows would be open. Most of them had no screens.

I haven't seen any pictures of the flag in question, but I can't imagine it was one of the 7 foot pole flags. Most of our class rooms had flags on maybe 2 foot or 3 foot dowels?

My freshman year our English teacher was out almost the whole year for maternity leave and we had a parade of substitutes coming and going. This was one of the rougher classes, too; someone would be arguing with the substitute teacher in the front of the class, and in the back kids were rolling blunts and blowing lines. Tying kids' bookbags to the venetian blind cords and swinging them out the 2nd floor windows. Locking the teacher outside and throwing chairs into the courtyard.

And people wonder why I tried to blow the place up.
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