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#4127 Sep 01 2017 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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+1 from Zam, free and everything!

Edited, Sep 2nd 2017 11:34am by stupidmonkey
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#4128 Sep 02 2017 at 6:43 AM Rating: Good
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Gbaji wrote:
Symbols don't advocate anything at all. People do. Some people may interpret a symbol a given way, but that's 100% subjective. If enough people decide that a symbol means X, then to them, it means X. Period.
If that were true, there wouldn't be such an uproar of kneeling during the National Anthem.

Gbaji wrote:
Tell that to the angry mob. You get, thought, that the very same "anyone defending this symbol is a racist"
To be fair, I would bet most people, for or against, had no clue that certain statues even existed, let alone who they symbolized.

Gbaji wrote:

Wow. Um... You get that there are a lot of black folks who proudly fly that flag, right? I suppose they're all just self hating or something?
There are not "a lot" black folk who proudly fly that flag.

lolgaxe wrote:
No one sees a swastika tattoo and thinks "Must be a Buddhist."
The two symbols are similar, but different.


#4129 Sep 05 2017 at 7:14 AM Rating: Good
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Anyone else feel that placing Sean Spicer in the speech circuit is a lot like giving Jeffrey Dahmer a food truck?
Almalique wrote:
The two symbols are similar, but different.
Then we're talking about two different things.

Edited, Sep 5th 2017 9:18am by lolgaxe
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#4130 Sep 05 2017 at 8:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Maple Cocaine on twitter wrote:
Centrist pops out of a trash can: you didnt even give them a chance to explain their reasoning
Well yeah, that's the best part. It's like watching a car held together with duct tape somehow not fall apart as it bumbles down the highway. You just stare in utter fascination for a minute or two then get as far away as possible before it drops the back axle in the lane in front of you.

That's like the whole reason we have free speech pretty much, at least as far as I can tell. No one really ever is interesting in listening to anyone else, but boy we love rubbernecking to get a glimpse of a good car wreck.
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#4131 Sep 05 2017 at 9:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Also there are little charred pieces of trees, ferns, squirrels and other woodland things lofting around outside my window. It's a little like Christmas came early, but it doesn't taste the same as snowflakes sadly enough. Smiley: frown
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#4132 Sep 05 2017 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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Even the squirrels can't handle a Burning Man festival.
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#4133 Sep 05 2017 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Lolgaxe wrote:
Then we're talking about two different things.

I was referring to the Buddhist symbol that the N@zis used for their symbol. What are you referring to?
#4134 Sep 06 2017 at 7:54 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
What are you referring to?
That a swastika tattoo doesn't lead anyone to thinking "Buddhist." You quoted it.
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#4135 Sep 06 2017 at 8:26 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
I was referring to the Buddhist symbol that the N@zis used for their symbol. What are you referring to?
That's...not quite right.

The sigil we now call a swastika was around loooong before the Buddhists and used almost world wide for many centuries. Some scientists believe it to be an astronomic representation, possibly representing a comet or supernova.

Hell, there's a major (well, major for Rapid City, SD) hotel here that has swastikas as part of its lobby decoration...because the local native tribes used it as well and I'm pretty sure they weren't Buddhist.

Having said that the Buddhist sigil was not tilted, and "rotated" the opposite direction.
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Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#4136 Sep 06 2017 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
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I'll use this doublepost to point out that the Vikings (or their precursors) used the "swastika", too. (Again, along with most of the planet.)






INB4 "Bijou seems preoccupied with swastikas, eh?"

Edited, Sep 6th 2017 8:33am by Bijou
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Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#4137 Sep 06 2017 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bijou seems preoccu....Ah, **** it, too late.
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#4138 Sep 06 2017 at 10:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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For once Bijou saw it coming.
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#4139 Sep 06 2017 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Bijou seems preoccu....Ah, **** it, too late.
Smiley: cool
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Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#4140 Sep 06 2017 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Bijou seems preoccu....Ah, **** it, too late.
Smiley: cool


You have the sunglasses, but do you have the dog and the cane?
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#4141 Sep 06 2017 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
What are you referring to?
That a swastika tattoo doesn't lead anyone to thinking "Buddhist." You quoted it.

Exactly. Hence why I said that that the two symbols are similar but not alike. People often confuse the Buddhist symbol for the swastika because they look alike. So, while I understand the point of your post, I was merely making the statement that no one should think "Buddhist", because they are two different symbols.
#4142 Sep 08 2017 at 10:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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When Harvey was coming down on Texas, a number of people were going on about how it was actually relatively small and the "global warming alarmists" were predicting a number of big hurricanes and but that was all lies and yadda yadda global warming hoax.

Now, a couple weeks later, we have the largest recorded Atlantic hurricane in history about to hit Florida and EPA administrator Scott Pruitt says that it would be "insensitive" to talk about climate change and this "isn't the "ime or the place". Much like how we shouldn't talk about preventing gun deaths when a kindergarten gets shot up.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#4143 Sep 08 2017 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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That's such a cushy job. It's either all lies or not the right time to discuss.
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#4144 Sep 08 2017 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Rush Limbaugh was bloviating about how Hurricane Irma was all liberal climate change hype. Fast forward 24 hours and he's off the air indefinitely, waddling at speed away from the liberal hype
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#4145 Sep 08 2017 at 11:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Now, a couple weeks later, we have the largest recorded Atlantic hurricane in history about to hit Florida and EPA administrator Scott Pruitt says that it would be "insensitive" to talk about climate change and this "isn't the "ime or the place". Much like how we shouldn't talk about preventing gun deaths when a kindergarten gets shot up.
Meh, hurricanes aren't the best things to be looking at for evidence of climate change anyway. While there's a point to be made that adding more energy for a heat engine to work with leads to a fairly obvious outcome, there's enough different factors that go into hurricane intensity and frequency that the outcome isn't so obvious. The small sample size (only a few hurricanes a year) makes it difficult to draw any conclusions quickly, and there should be several other outcomes of the predicted warming that will be perceptible, and have been seen, long before we have enough data to conclude anything about hurricanes.

Sure gets people talking about it though.

Edited, Sep 8th 2017 11:04am by someproteinguy
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#4146 Sep 08 2017 at 6:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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When that becomes "a few hurricanes a week", though, it sure adds up the data points.

Also the fact that it's hitting the marks for all of the models adds a little bit of weight to the argument.
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#4147 Sep 08 2017 at 7:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
[stuff]

Which is much different from "Nope, can't talk about it shut up shut up shut up you're being so mean!!!!!!" from our EPA chief.
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#4149 Sep 08 2017 at 8:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
Gbaji wrote:
Symbols don't advocate anything at all. People do. Some people may interpret a symbol a given way, but that's 100% subjective. If enough people decide that a symbol means X, then to them, it means X. Period.
If that were true, there wouldn't be such an uproar of kneeling during the National Anthem.


If it was *not* true, no one would be kneeling during the National Anthem in the first place.

They're doing it precisely because their subjective view of the meaning of the US flag, and the symbolism of saluting it, is different than that of other people. The uproar occurs when two very different subjective views meet. Very much like when someone flies a VBF on his front porch, viewing its symbolism in one way, while others view it in a very different way.

Excellent job finding an example supporting my point though!

Quote:
To be fair, I would bet most people, for or against, had no clue that certain statues even existed, let alone who they symbolized.


Yeah. Sadly, the whole "I'm upset because someone on my TV told me I'm supposed to be" is far more common that it should be. Crowds of angry people cheering the destruction of a hateful symbol, when most of them probably don't know what that statue is, who it is, or why it was erected in the first place, is just plain sad (hence my earlier point about the Stonewall Jackson plague being removed).

Quote:
There are not "a lot" black folk who proudly fly that flag.


Depends on your definition of "a lot". And also, the effect of the much increased assumptive statements about said meaning of the VBF over the last couple decades. You tell black folks that it's a symbol of racism, then tell them more loudly, get groups like the NAACP to condemn it, argue that anyone flying it is a racist, etc, and, as you might imagine, the number of black people flying it in any form will decrease significantly.

I guess what's strange is that I'd bet that the percentage of black people in the south who proudly flew that flag back in the 70s was higher (much higher) than it is today. So, despite the prevailing narrative that the resurgence of the flag back in the 60s was a counter response to the civil rights movement, and was clearly understood at the time to be a symbol of racism, support for segregation, etc, the perception that this is the case among the general public (and especially in the south) has moved steadily in the other direction.

Southern bands like Lynyrd Skynyrd used the symbol frequently. They very clearly did use it in "response" to the civil rights movement, but it's meaning was specifically to people (especially northerners) believing (or claiming) that all white southerners were racists. It was very clearly (at least to them) a symbol of southern pride that had nothing at all to do with racism, and a lot more to do with "yeah, we've got our problems, but that doesn't define us all".

At the time, most people understood this. So this is not a case of "everyone knew it was racist" or even "no one's disputing this! (Joph)", and we've somehow forgotten this, or it's "real meaning" has been lost. Quite the opposite. It's real meaning was not what people today are claiming it was. We're seeing retroactive re-writing of history going on, right in front of our eyes.

And yes, before anyone goes there: The fact that actual racists (southern or not) have adopted the symbol as one of racism at about the same rate at which non-racists have also labeled it as racist (and enough people forgotten it's "true meaning" that they accept this as truth), is not really surprising. In the same way that if you tell black people for several decades in a row that it's a symbol of racism, they'll back away from it, if you tell racists that it's a symbol of racism, they'll start using it.

That's kinda how symbols work. Again, the meaning is subjective. And yeah, I'm not even arguing that in today's society, where so many people do assume that flag is a symbol of racism, slavery, and segregation, that this doesn't in itself create weight and meaning to society as a whole which must be responded to in some way. What I am trying to do is point out that this "meaning" is wholly artificial, and basically has been created over time by those seeking to enhance the perception of broad sweeping (institutionalized even!) racism in this country.

If you can't find enough actual racists, or racially biased actions, latch onto a symbol and call it racists. Then call anyone who uses it racist. And look! There's now a really large number of racists in this country. No one can dispute this, right? And the poor folks, for whom that symbol has no racist meaning at all are stuck there, trying to defend it, but accomplishing nothing at all except to be branded as racists themselves. With their only option to abandon the symbol entirely.

For me, it's not about this specific symbol, but about the process itself. What are we really accomplishing here? I think I pointed out earlier that you could do the same thing with *any* symbol, if you really want to, and if you have enough influence or control over the media and education institutions (which the modern Left absolutely does). I think I've also pointed out that the US flag is flown at white nationalist rallys at a higher rate than the VBF. Does that become a symbol of hate and racism now too? Heck, at the risk of bringing this full circle, isn't that belief more or less exactly why some refuse to salute said flag during the national anthem?

So in 20-40 years, after all those who refuse to salute have been joined by the Left in condemning the US flag and what it "really" stands for, will we also find ourselves in the situation where anyone who continues to defend its use, or salutes it, etc, will be labeled as a hater, racist, defender of a horrible system and government? If you think this is absurd, I think you are naive. We're already moving in that direction now. The question really is: Do we wake up from this silliness at some point? Or do we just keep following it down the rabbit hole and see where it leads?
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#4150 Sep 08 2017 at 10:08 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd also like to point out that the longest use of the VBF has been around since soon after the Civil War by an organization founded to recognize the soldiers who fought for the South in that war. And again, with a very strong intent to separate the flag from any connotation having to do with slavery, politics, etc. Ironically, the VBF was chosen specifically because it did *not* contain connotations of that sort. It was the "soldiers flag", and not about the politicians or the politics.
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#4151 Sep 09 2017 at 12:37 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I'd also like to point out that the longest use of the VBF swastika has been around since soon after the Civil War long before the rise of the Third Reich

Also, I might be a little bit stoned.

Edited, Sep 8th 2017 11:39pm by stupidmonkey
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