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#4227 Oct 04 2017 at 7:43 PM Rating: Good
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I doubt it would be too hard to make these sort of things illegal, as long as they can avoid putting poison pills into the legislation and focus purely on correctly worded legal language (like say: Any external device designed to be attached to a firearm to allow the firearm trigger to be automatically pulled without requiring manual operation by the user). This would not inhibit normal firearm use, but would prevent any sort of spring loaded, or machine operated automatic device from being used to pull the trigger faster than a human could normally do so.


Are you Amish? you are basically asking to outlaw springs and sticks, largely to avoid the real discussion.
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#4229 Oct 04 2017 at 8:04 PM Rating: Good
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#4230 Oct 04 2017 at 10:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
And then the left collectively wonders why people in the middle effectively say nope. **** it. Bring on the silencers.

The nine people who watch GQ must be horrified.

Although I agree he was being unfair. The NRA may be a lobby organization that directly profits from terrorism on multiple angles: sales of guns to terrorists, sales of guns to people afraid of terrorists, sales of guns to people afraid that someone will take their guns following terror attacks, etc and an organization that fights hard to keep guns as accessible as possible for anyone who might want one, but they're not a "terrorist organization", per se. Terrorists take human lives for the sake of ideology, the NRA just facilitates it for the sake of profit.


Mostly agreed, but we can extend this argument to ridiculous lengths quite fast. A vast majority of US corps ( wait, why I am singling out national corps ) - multinationals - in one way or another profit from death ( health insurance ), slavery ( dunno, shoe making ), profiteering ( Venezuela ), toppling of emerging markets ( prolly Venezuela too ).. sure, they are not evil terrorists, but they do facilitate terrorism in the name profit.

It does seem more subtle than a gun though; accepted terrorism maybe..

The only difference is that there seems to be a clear agency with a gun.. with a corporation, well, who knows what really happened there. We just happened to benefit from this particular event. But who could have possibly predicted that?

Surely, the lawyers can sort this out.
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#4231 Oct 04 2017 at 10:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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The thing is, in the case of the NRA (which is run by the gun manufacturers) there's no need to extend it out or stretch the definition of terrorism. They directly benefit from more sales following domestic terror attacks.

Edited, Oct 4th 2017 11:40pm by Jophiel
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#4232 Oct 04 2017 at 11:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
The thing is, in the case of the NRA (which is run by the gun manufacturers) there's no need to extend it out or stretch the definition of terrorism. They directly benefit from more sales following domestic terror attacks.

Edited, Oct 4th 2017 11:40pm by Jophiel


Hmm, some could argue that the increase in sales due to the calls for banning all guns, but that would mean NRA benefits from Ds inspired frenzy and people run out to buy guns before the ban ( just like under O ). Then again, I may have read a little too much on resistance economy. Bleh.

So they benefit from sales, but the causal relationship seems to lie in an odd spot.
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#4233 Oct 05 2017 at 7:07 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Oh. I'll take this duplicate post to say that I'm reasonably certain that anyone suggesting that if only folks in the crowd had been armed they could have returned fire, was an anti-gun troll.
So, just so we're clear: Firing into a crowd at a mall is patriotic, but firing at a hotel is anti-gun trolling.
Timelordwho wrote:
Are you Amish? you are basically asking to outlaw springs and sticks, largely to avoid the real discussion.
You're talking to the guy that gave even a fraction of a second of consideration to the idea that Vegas' hotel security was discussion worthy.
angrymnk wrote:
Hmm, some could argue that the increase in sales due to the calls for banning all guns, but that would mean NRA benefits from Ds inspired frenzy and people run out to buy guns before the ban ( just like under O ).
That's not an argument, it's true. Every time Ds brought up the idea of gun restrictions (or the times the Rs brought up the idea that the Ds were bringing up the idea of gun restrictions) gun and ammo sales went up.

Edited, Oct 5th 2017 9:17am by lolgaxe
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#4234 Oct 05 2017 at 7:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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angrymnk wrote:
Hmm, some could argue that the increase in sales due to the calls for banning all guns, but that would mean NRA benefits from Ds inspired frenzy

The "threat" of banning all guns is a myth. There is zero chance of any credible push within the government to ban all guns. Obama was president for eight years and had a Democratic majority for two years and no serious movement was taken on gun control, much less anything that would require you to buy six AR-15s and stockpile ammo. But the myth is given new life (and the NRA is a big part of that) each time something happens to keep those gun sales moving.

It's pretty much the same thing as if I owned a survival gear store and convincingly told people every six months that ancient Olmec prophesy foretells the end of the world any day now.

Edited, Oct 5th 2017 8:47am by Jophiel
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#4235 Oct 05 2017 at 8:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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TMZ is reporting that the Vegas shooter had previously booked a hotel overlooking Lollapalooza in Chicago but didn't show up. Maybe he was afraid that all of the Chicago people would shoot back at him, wakka-wakka-wakka.
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#4236 Oct 05 2017 at 8:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
It's pretty much the same thing as if I owned a survival gear store and convincingly told people every six months that ancient Olmec prophesy foretells the end of the world any day now.
That's just ridiculous since everyone knows that the Blue Barracudas will go into the shrine and reassemble the Silver Monkey statue well before the world has a chance of ending.
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#4237 Oct 05 2017 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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As I drifted from one news site to FaceBook today, I saw a mention that while many stores are taking Bump Stocks off their shelves, there is now a rush to buy them as even the GOP is looking at banning their sale. Gun owners are scared that their fun will be banned. Really it's like being able to have a long gun rapid fire is like being able to stay hard while ******* a Playboy Bunny.
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#4238 Oct 05 2017 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
Hmm, some could argue that the increase in sales due to the calls for banning all guns, but that would mean NRA benefits from Ds inspired frenzy

The "threat" of banning all guns is a myth. There is zero chance of any credible push within the government to ban all guns. Obama was president for eight years and had a Democratic majority for two years and no serious movement was taken on gun control, much less anything that would require you to buy six AR-15s and stockpile ammo. But the myth is given new life (and the NRA is a big part of that) each time something happens to keep those gun sales moving.

It's pretty much the same thing as if I owned a survival gear store and convincingly told people every six months that ancient Olmec prophesy foretells the end of the world any day now.

Edited, Oct 5th 2017 8:47am by Jophiel


I did not say it is rational. Threats typically appeal to emotion; not reason.

I am goig to channel Carson and do the blame yourself thing since NRA typically reacts to the demands put forth after each 2nd amendment sacrifice.

The left stops gunning for a ban and you likely won't see a spike each time people die in a random massacre. Granted, I do not know that. I am simply noticing patterns.
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#4239 Oct 05 2017 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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As I drifted from one news site to FaceBook today, I saw a mention that while many stores are taking Bump Stocks off their shelves, there is now a rush to buy them as even the GOP is looking at banning their sale. Gun owners are scared that their fun will be banned. Really it's like being able to have a long gun rapid fire is like being able to stay hard while ******* a Playboy Bunny.
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#4240 Oct 05 2017 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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"People would buy less guns if only you would stop complaining about people being murdered by guns!"

Deep, man. Like "got stoned and then hung out in the dorm lobby at 2:30am" deep.
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#4242 Oct 05 2017 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
"People would buy less guns if only you would stop complaining about people being murdered by guns!"

Deep, man. Like "got stoned and then hung out in the dorm lobby at 2:30am" deep.


Am I wrong?
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#4243 Oct 05 2017 at 2:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, probably. That's sort of the whole "The NRA makes up overblown myths about the threat of your guns going away" part of the story. The thing about making shit up is that you can make shit up regardless.
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#4244 Oct 05 2017 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Samira wrote:
Hotel security has nothing to do with it as it stands right now, because it was perfectly legal for him to bring an ******* up to his hotel room.

Hey, I dunno, maybe that's a problem?


But even if it weren't legal, he could still do it. Because how would you stop him? Search him when he checks in, but then search his possessions every time he enters the hotel? And once checked in, you usually have access to other non-front door entrances.

(Did the filter catch arsenal?)


There are hotels with armed security, as well as metal detectors at all entrances/exits. Mind you, they're in places like the Middle East. Not in places like Freedomland.
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#4245 Oct 05 2017 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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Really it's like being able to have a long gun rapid fire is like being able to stay hard while ******* a Playboy Bunny.


It is.
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#4246 Oct 05 2017 at 4:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Yeah, probably. That's sort of the whole "The NRA makes up overblown myths about the threat of your guns going away" part of the story. The thing about making shit up is that you can make shit up regardless.


Fine, I will go along. What makes it a myth?
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#4247 Oct 05 2017 at 7:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I'm already bored.
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#4249 Oct 05 2017 at 8:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Timelordwho wrote:
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I doubt it would be too hard to make these sort of things illegal, as long as they can avoid putting poison pills into the legislation and focus purely on correctly worded legal language (like say: Any external device designed to be attached to a firearm to allow the firearm trigger to be automatically pulled without requiring manual operation by the user). This would not inhibit normal firearm use, but would prevent any sort of spring loaded, or machine operated automatic device from being used to pull the trigger faster than a human could normally do so.


Are you Amish? you are basically asking to outlaw springs and sticks, largely to avoid the real discussion.


What "real discussion"? It's the "real discussion" focusing only on going after gun manufactures and not on stuff like this that allowed him to do what he did (well, without actually breaking any laws up to the point he started shooting anyway). If the objective is to prevent people from skirting the existing bans on fully automatic weapons, then the discussion has to include third party accessories that are currently legal, and which allow just that.

And yeah. If the "springs and sticks" are put together in a form specifically designed to allow for such operation of a firearm, then that should be illegal, in more or less the same way that springs and sticks, when put together to form a spring loaded arrow trap to guard your property are also illegal. I'm not sure what the problem is here.
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