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#4252 Oct 05 2017 at 8:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Yeah, probably. That's sort of the whole "The NRA makes up overblown myths about the threat of your guns going away" part of the story. The thing about making shit up is that you can make shit up regardless.


Yeah. Like creating a false dilemma between "guns going away" and "nothing at all". There's a whole range in between that does get pushed for each time something like this happens, and does affect people who own firearms. Irrationally defined "Armor piercing" rounds being banned, for instance. Or ridiculous cosmetic and/or named firearm models being banned for being "assault rifles", for instance. Large capacity magazines, for instance.

The idea that concern that new gun regulations may infringe a buyer's ability to purchase a weapon, magazine, or accessory that he is considering buying, thus pushing that purchasing decision ahead of such potential regulations are not at all irrational. They've happened multiple times in the past. Do stores hype this to increase sales? Sure. Again though, they wouldn't have the power to do this if there wasn't a past history of such gun regulations actually being passed.
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#4254 Oct 05 2017 at 9:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Yeah, I'm already bored.


*shrug* And this is how a forum dies; one bored poster at a time.

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#4255 Oct 06 2017 at 6:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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angrymnk wrote:
*shrug* And this is how a forum dies; one bored poster at a time.

"Dies"? Smiley: laugh

We've just been crawling through the bones of this place for ages now, scraping off whatever meat is left.
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#4257 Oct 06 2017 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
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Ya, there are only something like 3 active threads on the entire forum site, and half a dozen active posters. There may be a random new poster in the help forums once a week, but pretty sure those are just popping in to ask why some feature of the non-forum site isn't working. I haven't bothered checking to see if the non-forum side of the Zam website is actually active and posting real "gaming news" or what ever it was they switched to. The only gaming news parts I see is the occasional time I go to ffxi.allakhazam.com and see the 2 or 3 year old latest news about the last, eventually wrong FFXV release date.
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#4258 Oct 06 2017 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
It's the "real discussion" focusing only on going after gun manufactures and not on stuff like this that allowed him to do what he did
In reality it was the whole "NRA making conservatives insist that if you just stay quiet for ten seconds after a bunch of people are shot then the problem will go away" and the lack of any actual activity that allowed him to do what he did. But sure, let's pretend that talking about making analog alarm clocks and the internet illegal would have totally solved next month's shooting.

Edited, Oct 6th 2017 9:45am by lolgaxe
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#4259 Oct 06 2017 at 10:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Not so much "making" as "paying", but otherwise yeah.
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#4260 Oct 06 2017 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
*shrug* And this is how a forum dies; one bored poster at a time.

"Dies"? Smiley: laugh

We've just been crawling through the bones of this place for ages now, scraping off whatever meat is left.


Heh, claerly u is not a 'not over until its over' type of person. Claerly.
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#4261 Oct 06 2017 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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Clearly, the posters scare easy, but they'll be back and in greater numbers.
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#4262 Oct 06 2017 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
It's the "real discussion" focusing only on going after gun manufactures and not on stuff like this that allowed him to do what he did
In reality it was the whole "NRA making conservatives insist that if you just stay quiet for ten seconds after a bunch of people are shot then the problem will go away" and the lack of any actual activity that allowed him to do what he did.


No. It's the anti-gun activists obsessive focus on punitive legislation against gun manufacturers and gun owners that is to blame. They are more interested in hurting those two groups than in protecting lives. Had they proposed a clean bill to ban bump stocks at any point in the last decade or so, it would have passed, easily. But to my knowledge, the only proposed bill that even mentioned bump stocks was bundled in an attempt by Feinstein to re-instate the assault weapons ban from the 90s a few years back. So clearly, at least some gun control folks were aware of bump stocks, and were aware that they should be banned, but apparently cared more about playing politics with the issue than with doing something that everyone could easily have agreed on.

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But sure, let's pretend that talking about making analog alarm clocks and the internet illegal would have totally solved next month's shooting.


I honestly have no clue what you're trying to say here. There is no question that had bump stocks been banned years ago, it would have limited his ability to do what he did. At the very least, it would have forced him to commit a crime prior to the shooting, with a chance of him getting caught prior to firing his first shot. As it was, every purchase he made was legal. There was effectively zero chance of catching him prior to opening fire.

What's strange is that you'd think the response to me posting that we should ban bump stocks would be positive from the folks on this forum. But what I've gotten instead is either silence, or disdain. It's quite puzzling. Not one person has posted saying "Yeah. You're right. That's something we can all agree on, and should support". And you wonder why sometimes I get the impression that for many people, it's not actually about finding solutions to problems, but about perpetuating division. It's almost like no one on the left wants to say anything about this (I'm talking broader than this forum btw, since I've noticed this same odd behavior all over the place), precisely because it would require agreement between the two sides. And I guess they prefer antagonism. They're so used to fighting the GOP and the NRA over gun control, that when those groups say "yeah, we should ban these things", they get confused about what they're supposed to do. I can almost see the wheels turning and the internal thought process going: "Is it ok for us to agree with the GOP on something?"

Dunno. Just an observation.

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#4265 Oct 06 2017 at 6:45 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Clearly, the posters scare easy, but they'll be back and in greater numbers.


Hwell, if the forum had half-way decent mobile support where phone doesn't wait 5 hours to type in 5 letters numbers would improve over time.

This place could be decent again ( hashtag MFDA ) and then maybe I would not have to rely on half-assed wiki page with more ads than I care to block.

Yeah, I get that steam and gog have their own forums, but I did not see an asylum. There were only a couple decent threads on various strategeries and builds for the games I played.

So anyway, is alla selling?:>
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#4266 Oct 06 2017 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
No.
Yes.
gbaji wrote:
What's strange is that you'd think the response to me posting that we should ban bump stocks would be positive from the folks on this forum.
You want a pat on the head and a cookie for repeating a suggestion you overheard that makes zero difference to the actual problem what-so-ever and you were adamantly against in 2013 because you were absolutely certain it was unconstitutional?

Edited, Oct 6th 2017 11:16pm by lolgaxe
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#4267 Oct 06 2017 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
You want a pat on the head and a cookie for repeating a suggestion you overheard that makes zero difference to the actual problem what-so-ever and you were adamantly against in 2013 because you were absolutely certain it was unconstitutional?


You know what, NO!! I have had enough! This will NOT STAND!!!!!!!!


I wanted a cookie

Edited, Oct 6th 2017 10:30pm by stupidmonkey
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#4268 Oct 08 2017 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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Three months ago my cousin moved to California with her boyfriend.
Two months ago my aunt had to drive out to California to bring her now single daughter back after she was dumped and left stranded in California.
Today I get an invite to my cousin's wedding, who is now having a baby... and guess who the Groom/Father is...

Women in my family on average don't have a good track record...
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#4269 Oct 09 2017 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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Sounds like California is to blame.
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#4270 Oct 10 2017 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
What's strange is that you'd think the response to me posting that we should ban bump stocks would be positive from the folks on this forum.
You want a pat on the head and a cookie for repeating a suggestion you overheard...


Considering that I posted on this forum suggesting that bump stocks should be banned a full day before the NRA and various GOP members did, I think you've got that one completely backwards. Unless you're suggesting that I'm taking my GOP marching orders from the future, via a time machine, or something?

Quote:
... that makes zero difference to the actual problem what-so-ever...


Banning the device used by the shooter to allow him to legally modify his weapons to fire at nearly full auto speed makes "zero difference to the actual problem"? What world are you living in? I'm pretty sure a whole lot of people in the crowd thought that made a pretty freaking huge difference.

What the heck are you talking about?

Quote:
...and you were adamantly against in 2013 because you were absolutely certain it was unconstitutional?


I was against banning bump stocks in 2013? Source? Do you just make stuff up?

Had I known about bump stocks and how they worked in 2013, I would have argued *for* banning them, in 2013. Just as I argued for banning them the moment I learned that they had been used in this shooting and how they worked (quite well, apparently). I didn't wait to get marching orders. I didn't wait for the NRA and the GOP to weigh in. I'm not sure how you get this idea. My immediate reaction to bump stocks was "how the heck is that legal?", followed by "those things should not be legal".

And guess what? As much as many people want to think this is an all-or-nothing, "gun rights are unlimited, no matter what!" position, it really isn't. Most people, including the vast majority of 2nd amendment supporters, had the same "they should be illegal" reaction I had. This is not an "us vs them" scenario, no matter how hard some are trying to make it so.

We have something we can all agree on. Why can't we just agree on it without fighting?

Edited, Oct 10th 2017 8:54pm by gbaji
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#4273 Oct 11 2017 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Why can't we just agree on it without fighting?
It isn't a fight. A ban on bump stocks is a token gesture that won't happen, purposely ignores the real issue, and isn't any more a step in the right direction towards a solution than passing out heavy boots is to finding landmines.
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#4274 Oct 11 2017 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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The HR Department where I work seems to be a bit incompetent. On two separate occasions in the past year I have received, by mistake (due to actions that shouldn't happen), some private information about employees and potential employees.

Once, I was in my office at the end of the day and the printer starts up. This is usually only used for the Engineering and Design crew, and most of them had left. So I take the papers, turn them over, and they are Drug Test results for applying employees. I call up HR and ask, the gal says "Oh, so that's where that printer was... Can you throw those away?" Meanwhile, the HR department has their own printer, scanner, copier, and dedicated Phone/Fax lines that they are supposed to (Legally, IT told me) use to avoid situations like this.

Then the second time, I get an email from one of scanners (Again, Engineering/Design office scanner) containing scans of paperwork showing employees by name and how many times they have used the medical insurance, cost totals, etc... I send an email to the guy in HR that did it and he says "Oh, that must have been the last email that scanner used and I just selected default scanning settings". Again, they have dedicated Printers, Scanners, Copiers, etc. to avoid all this... This guy was mid position. Handling both an HR position and a Controller position at the time. You'd think he'd know that all that private financial information should be handled a bit securely.
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#4275 Oct 11 2017 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Why can't we just agree on it without fighting?
It isn't a fight.


When one side supports one thing, and the other supports something else, and they can't agree, it's a fight. At least politically.

Quote:
A ban on bump stocks is a token gesture that won't happen,..


If it doesn't happen, it will be because the anti-gun folks refuse to propose a clean bill on the matter. The sad fact is that the left is more interested in using such things as a means to get other things they want, than to just do what's needed. So yeah, they'll propose a ban on bump stocks, which will include bans on other things unrelated to allowing for full auto rates of fire. Conservative gun rights advocates will oppose it. They'll get labeled as "not caring if people die", and a bunch of other nasty stuff. Left will get as much political mileage out of the fight as possible, and then.... nothing will get done.

For the Left, the political value of proposing a bad law to get conservatives to oppose it so they can attack conservatives for doing so, far far outweighs the value of proposing a good law in the first place. That's why it wont happen. And it will be 100% on the gun control side. They could pass a clean bill. In all likelihood, they wont.

Quote:
...purposely ignores the real issue,...


Lol. It's zeroed in on the real issue. The problem is that for gun control advocates, the "real issue" isn't about saving lives, it's about passing restrictions on guns. They've put their solution ahead of the problem and lost sight of things.

Quote:
...and isn't any more a step in the right direction towards a solution than passing out heavy boots is to finding landmines.


That's because the "right direction" for the gun control side is... wait for it... gun control. A bump stock ban doesn't actually affect gun ownership at all, so it's not seen as valuable. You do get that they direction they want to go in is to lead to a place where the 2nd amendment is either repealed, or made meaningless because no one will choose to own a private firearm any more (if they can make it expensive or difficult enough, or eliminate the manufacturing capabilities enough).

Banning bump stocks is counter productive for the gun control people because it removes a scary thing about guns which they can use now to frighten people into passing "real gun control". They need people to have the ability to modify otherwise legal semi-automatic rifles to perform like full auto rifles, so that there will be more shootings like this, more death, and thus more support for banning the rifles themselves. If they ban the bump stocks, they will decrease the likelihood of more shootings like this, and make their job of banning the rifles themselves more difficult down the line.

That may seem cynical of me, but I've seen enough of this tactic to see which direction the wind is blowing. If a bump stock ban is passed, it will be done by the political right and with opposition from the political left. And if that doesn't turn your brain around on the issue, I'm not sure what will.
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#4276 Oct 11 2017 at 6:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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A disagreement is not a "Fight".

Maybe part of the problem is the adversarial tone we (all the sides) use.







Nah, I'm just kidding, republicans are idiots.
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