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#4977 Apr 16 2018 at 6:41 AM Rating: Good
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George Bush Starbucks hates Black People.
Apparently two people were waiting for a friend at a Starbucks. Employees asked them to leave if they weren't going to buy anything, they didn't. Police were called, police asked them to leave, they didn't. They were arrested and removed from the Starbucks.
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#4978 Apr 16 2018 at 7:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
I can think of easier ways to commit suicide, but I suppose if your goal is to kill your whole family, driving the SUV off a cliff seems rude, but efficient.
Should make it into commercials.

"The new 2018 Ford Escape, the SUV families all describe as 'AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!' "
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#4979 Apr 16 2018 at 9:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
Has the right used that tragedy to push more anti-*** family propaganda yet?
Did the FBI miss "clear warning signs" about the impending tragedy? If not I'd imagine it'll be in the back pocket waiting for a more opportune time.
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#4980 Apr 16 2018 at 10:59 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Has the right used that tragedy to push more anti-*** family propaganda yet?
Did the FBI miss "clear warning signs" about the impending tragedy? If not I'd imagine it'll be in the back pocket waiting for a more opportune time.

Timelines may suggest the whole event was in reaction to an opened CPS investigation after multiple neighbor reports.

I'm sure previous reports against the family were not as thoroughly investigated due to the family’s social presence. A seemingly wonderful and accepting family, "Free Hugs" boy from the beginning of the BLM, all open and accepting, pro-gay family, minority children being lovingly accepted into the multi-cultural family. I don't doubt that their facade helped eliminate any suspicions of actual abuse or issues that could have led up to this event. They thought they was good people.

Edited, Apr 17th 2018 8:02am by TirithRR
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#4981 Apr 17 2018 at 8:47 PM Rating: Default
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TirithRR wrote:
George Bush Starbucks hates Black People.
Apparently two people were waiting for a friend at a Starbucks. Employees asked them to leave if they weren't going to buy anything, they didn't. Police were called, police asked them to leave, they didn't. They were arrested and removed from the Starbucks.


Eh. While I'm sure this is just another one of those "OMG! it must be because of their skin color" deals, the reality is that if they'd just responded to the "hey, are you guys going to buy something?" question with... you know... actually just buying something, there would have been no problem (and, I suppose, no news story).

Maybe I'm a bit jaded, but there's at least some blame to be placed on the people who apparently steadfastly stuck to their "we don't have to buy anything from you to hang out in the store" position all the way to the point of the police being called and being removed in handcuffs. So yeah, I'm going to go with this not being nearly as straightforward a story of racial bias as is being reported. I'm reasonably certain that if couple white guys had done the exact same actions, they'd have been led out in handcuffs as well. The likely only difference is that we would never have heard about it because "two white guys causing trouble in a Starbucks and getting arrested" doesn't fit any sort of social narrative.

Yeah, yeah ("but the white guys wouldn't have been told to buy something or leave!"), maybe, maybe not. Still not buying the whole "I'm a victim for being arrested despite being given like 18 different options to avoid that outcome" bit.
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#4982 Apr 18 2018 at 7:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I'm reasonably certain that if couple white guys had done the exact same actions, they'd have been led out in handcuffs as well.
Of course you are.

Anyway moving away from that load, three year old shot her pregnant mother. Maybe if the fetus inside had a gun as well this wouldn't have happened.

Edited, Apr 18th 2018 9:22am by lolgaxe
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#4983 Apr 18 2018 at 7:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sure, just blame the gun and let's ignore the real culprit: poisoning children's minds with violent media like Elena of Avalor.

Edited, Apr 18th 2018 8:48am by Jophiel
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#4984 Apr 18 2018 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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That episode of Bob the Builder where he had to deal with mob strong-arming was very disturbing.
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#4985 Apr 18 2018 at 9:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Um... yeah, I think so.

**** crane... Smiley: disappointed

Edited, Apr 18th 2018 8:57am by someproteinguy
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#4986 Apr 18 2018 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I'm reasonably certain that if couple white guys had done the exact same actions, they'd have been led out in handcuffs as well.
Of course you are.
I\m reasonable certain that once Starbucks noticed the 2 white guys sitting there without purchases, Starbucks would've behaved the same. Haven't read enough on it to know if the cops would've as well.
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#4987 Apr 18 2018 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Last time I was in a Starbucks, I sat with my laptop out, charging, using the wi-fi and making phone calls for around an hour, without buying anything, without being approached or harassed. Perhaps the manager on duty that day got fired for not insisting I make a purchase.
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#4988 Apr 18 2018 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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The trick is to pretend English is your second language. Then you can feign confusion long enough for your files to download and waltz out. If the black guys were Asian or Hispanic or something they could have gotten away with it longer. Smiley: schooled
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#4989 Apr 18 2018 at 6:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Debalic wrote:
Last time I was in a Starbucks, I sat with my laptop out, charging, using the wi-fi and making phone calls for around an hour, without buying anything, without being approached or harassed. Perhaps the manager on duty that day got fired for not insisting I make a purchase.


It's hard to find anything resembling a detailed timeline of the event, but from bits and pieces, it appears that they had been sitting in the Starbucks for at least two hours without purchasing anything. One of them asked to use the restroom at that point and was refused because they had been sitting there for so long not buying anything. It was after that point that the issue escalated (and we have no direct evidence of what was said or done between them and the store manager). At some point, the manager asked them to leave and they refused. After that point, she called the police and reported this. The police arrived some time later and they asked the men to leave, not once, not twice, but three times. They gave them ample warnings and opportunities to avoid being arrested and made it clear that the consequence of not leaving would be arrest (which the cops, despite some claims to the contrary, really do have no choice in at that point). The one firm bit of timeline that I could find is that it was over an hour between when the manager called the cops and they arrived on the scene. This was clearly not a case of a couple guys hanging out for a short period of time before ordering their drinks.

Here's the deal. We can speculate all day long about whether a pair of white men in the exact same situation would have been noticed if hanging out at that Starbucks for that same period of time without buying anything. We can recount cases where this person or that person at some random Starbucks did this or that and didn't get asked to leave. That's all meaningless though. Unless you know for a fact that that exact manager at that exact Starbucks allows white people to do exactly what these men were doing, for exactly that length of time, and would have allowed them to use the restroom, and not asked them to purchase something or leave, and would have responded to whatever exact verbal exchange took place in a completely different manner, which would not have led to her calling the police, then you cannot actually insist that this had anything at all to do with race. I mean, you *can*, but you'd be engaging in your own racial bias at that point.

Again. Not buying it. IMO there is far more racial bias in the assumptions about the event than in the actions of the store manager. Everyone focuses on the drama of the events after the police arrive, but seem to ignore the series of events that lead up to that point. That was the avoidable part of this, and it was 100% avoidable by the two men.
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#4990 Apr 18 2018 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
One of them asked to use the restroom at that point and was refused because they had been sitting there for so long not buying anything.
It's illegal in most states do deny someone the use of a publicly available restroom.

Aside from that, it's a dick move.

So, either the guy was a racist, a dick or both.
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#4991 Apr 18 2018 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
So, either the guy was a racist, a dick or both.
It was a gal, apparently. How sexist of you.


As a side note, everything I could find about the rules for bathroom access seemed to use the term "patrons" for who had access. Paying customer only access seems pretty regularly used all over the place in my experience.

But it doesn't matter what the real events that lead up to the two men being arrested, how long had passed, whether or not the cops requested they leave multiple times before arresting them. All the public sees is "Black men arrested for doing nothing! RACISM!"
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#4992 Apr 18 2018 at 7:58 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
So, either the guy was a racist, a dick or both.
It was a gal, apparently. How sexist of you.


As a side note, everything I could find about the rules for bathroom access seemed to use the term "patrons" for who had access. Paying customer only access seems pretty regularly used all over the place in my experience.

But it doesn't matter what the real events that lead up to the two men being arrested, how long had passed, whether or not the cops requested they leave multiple times before arresting them. All the public sees is "Black men arrested for doing nothing! RACISM!"
I have used restrooms in restaurants, gas stations and any number of stores without buying a damn thing and was never told I could not. Gee, I wonder why I was never hassled?

While I can't prove the Starbucks person was racist, could you at least admit there are racists in the country or do you subscribe to gbaji's insane notion that, like, nobody is racist in America anymore?

I mean, except for all those liberal racists he goes on about, of course.


Edited, Apr 18th 2018 7:59pm by Bijou
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Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#4993 Apr 18 2018 at 8:21 PM Rating: Decent
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I've mastered the "pee and dash", it's like a dine and dash.
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#4994 Apr 18 2018 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
I have used restrooms in restaurants, gas stations and any number of stores without buying a damn thing and was never told I could not. Gee, I wonder why I was never hassled?

As have I. And many times when a Black person is also using said restroom. Crazy right? That's sort of not the point... Not whether or not you can, but whether or not if a business decided to say "paying customers only" if they had any legal right to do so...

What I found funny enough was the first people interviewed in the first articles published about this incident were other black customers who up to that point had been going about their merry way drinking the coffees/lattes and one would assume, using the restroom.


Quote:
While I can't prove the Starbucks person was racist, could you at least admit there are racists in the country or do you subscribe to gbaji's insane notion that, like, nobody is racist in America anymore?


So because racism exists, this incident has to be racist? If I don't believe racism was the cause of this incident, I am denying that it exists?

Edited, Apr 18th 2018 10:26pm by TirithRR
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#4995 Apr 18 2018 at 9:03 PM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
I have used restrooms in restaurants, gas stations and any number of stores without buying a damn thing and was never told I could not. Gee, I wonder why I was never hassled?

As have I. And many times when a Black person is also using said restroom. Crazy right? That's sort of not the point... Not whether or not you can, but whether or not if a business decided to say "paying customers only" if they had any legal right to do so...

What I found funny enough was the first people interviewed in the first articles published about this incident were other black customers who up to that point had been going about their merry way drinking the coffees/lattes and one would assume, using the restroom.


Quote:
While I can't prove the Starbucks person was racist, could you at least admit there are racists in the country or do you subscribe to gbaji's insane notion that, like, nobody is racist in America anymore?


So because racism exists, this incident has to be racist? If I don't believe racism was the cause of this incident, I am denying that it exists?

Edited, Apr 18th 2018 10:26pm by TirithRR


Have you guys been to Chicago, St. Louis, NY, Boston or other metro areas? On Milwaukee there are countless businesses that restrict access to bathroom; some do enforce purchase to pee policy ( Pollacks and congestion, go figure ). It may have something to do with racism, but automatically jumping to this conclusion is.. what is the word I am looking for.. stupid.

Similarly, saying cops should not have taken the guys in is equally stupid. At that point all of them were officially trespassing. Granted, if cops asked me to leave, I prolly would, but that is me. I had a cop shout at some kids near me to shut the **** up and leave 7/11 cuz w/e. Now, I rarely see a reason to, potentially, fight with a cop over not leaving 7/11. Getting arrested seems like a hassle.

Then again, maybe they decided to make a point.
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#4996 Apr 19 2018 at 7:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
I have used restrooms in restaurants, gas stations and any number of stores without buying a damn thing and was never told I could not. Gee, I wonder why I was never hassled?
Are you kidding? Saying no to a blind man would be a massive uproar.
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#4997 Apr 19 2018 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Haven't read enough on it to know if the cops would've as well.
Nothing between 1/01/1900 and 12/31/2017 about white people being arrested at a Starbucks for waiting around for friends or using the bathrooms.
gbaji wrote:
Again. Not buying it.
Of course you're not.
gbaji wrote:
Everyone focuses on the drama of the events after the police arrive, but seem to ignore the series of events that lead up to that point.
You mean the series of events that you can't find anything resembling a detailed timeline of, even though you go on to detailing just how long those particular events took place?

Edited, Apr 19th 2018 10:14am by lolgaxe
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#4998 Apr 19 2018 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Haven't read enough on it to know if the cops would've as well.
Nothing between 1/01/1900 and 12/31/2017 about white people being arrested at a Starbucks for waiting around for friends or using the bathrooms.

I'd imagine that media circuses around businesses tell non-paying visitors to leave are a pretty rare thing. Data points would be understandably hard to find.

First articles I read about it did mention this particular employee being a problem before. That it wasn't her first issue with customers. No details given then, just reports from others at the cafe, it seems.
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#4999 Apr 19 2018 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
First articles I read about it did mention this particular employee being a problem before. That it wasn't her first issue with customers. No details given then, just reports from others at the cafe, it seems.

"Oh my God, that's such classic Rachel..."
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#5000 Apr 19 2018 at 9:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
First articles I read about it did mention this particular employee being a problem before. That it wasn't her first issue with customers. No details given then, just reports from others at the cafe, it seems.

"Oh my God, that's such classic Rachel..."


I don't think Rachel would even notice they were there.
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#5001 Apr 19 2018 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
I'd imagine that media circuses around businesses tell non-paying visitors to leave are a pretty rare thing. Data points would be understandably hard to find.
I'd imagine there'd be at least one dirty hipster during the Occupy Wall Street protest.
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