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#5052 May 01 2018 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I tend to believe that it's far more likely that the reason they were asked to leave had something to do with what they did or said than with their skin color.
Funny how all your "speculation" puts the blame on those two customers, eh?
The probability is that given the millions of people who enter a Starbucks on any given day (6.5 million by my rough count) without getting arrested that these two men did something different than those millions of other people which resulted in them getting arrested.

I get that this doesn't satisfy the narrative you seem to want to push, but that's not my problem. That's yours.
But it could just as easily be that they were different, not their behavior, but they themselves. It is JUST as likely.
That doesn't ft his personal, enlightened narrative, you insensitive troglodyte.Smiley: mad
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#5053 May 01 2018 at 11:13 PM Rating: Decent
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It's just as likely they said "We're going to wait for the other party before we get anything" as anything else. I mean, to me, it would just be polite.
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#5054 May 02 2018 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
But it could just as easily be that they were different, not their behavior, but they themselves. It is JUST as likely.
Come on, just because no white people anywhere seem to have ever been arrested at a Starbucks for asking to use the bathroom or waiting around for friends or even being assholes to the baristas ...
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#5055 May 02 2018 at 6:37 PM Rating: Good
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Bought The Reality Dysfunction on Amazon/Audible. The next day Amazon sends me an email.

"How was The Reality Dysfunction? Did it meet your expectations? Rate the product!"

No Amazon, I have not finished listening to the 44 hour book in the 24 hours it has been since I purchased it. Sorry.

Edited, May 2nd 2018 8:37pm by TirithRR
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#5056 May 02 2018 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
But it could just as easily be that they were different, not their behavior, but they themselves. It is JUST as likely.


No, it's not "just" as likely. Not if the "they" you're referring to here is merely the color of their skin. Two things can both be "possible", but with radically different probabilities. This is one of those cases. For someone with "professor" in his name, I'd think you'd be aware of the difference. Statistically somewhere just under a million black people walk into a Starbucks every single day in the US. If that was "just as likely" to get you tossed out as being rude, or offensive, or threatening to the staff, we'd expect a similar percentage of black people to be asked to leave or risk arrest as we'd see of those being tossed out due to those behaviors.

I think it's pretty clear that is not remotely close to the case. At least, I'd hope it is. If it's not, then you've got a serious case of narrative blinders going on.
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#5057 May 03 2018 at 7:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
No Amazon, I have not finished listening to the 44 hour book in the 24 hours it has been since I purchased it. Sorry.

And you never will with that attitude Smiley: disappointed
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#5058 May 03 2018 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Statistically somewhere just under a million black people walk into a Starbucks every single day in the US.
Last year found that roughly 38m per month, which means about 1.3m per day, total people visit Starbucks.

Edited, May 3rd 2018 9:59am by lolgaxe
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#5059 May 03 2018 at 8:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Maybe 75% of them are black, smart guy!
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#5060 May 03 2018 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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I also have to question what month we're looking at. Is it a 30 day or 31 day month...or did they go rogue with that stat and give us February numbers? We need better data!

Edited, May 3rd 2018 12:04pm by Uglysasquatch
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#5061 May 03 2018 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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Number of people who visited Starbucks within the last 30 days in the United States from autumn 2009 to spring 2017 (in millions), statista.com.

Rollin down the street, smokin indo, sippin on grande half-n-half Pumpkin Latte with a splash of espresso.

Edited, May 3rd 2018 11:23am by lolgaxe
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#5062 May 03 2018 at 9:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Something, something, CULTURAL MISAPPROPRIATION! Smiley: mad
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#5063 May 03 2018 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
But it could just as easily be that they were different, not their behavior, but they themselves. It is JUST as likely.


No, it's not "just" as likely. Not if the "they" you're referring to here is merely the color of their skin. Two things can both be "possible", but with radically different probabilities. This is one of those cases. For someone with "professor" in his name, I'd think you'd be aware of the difference. Statistically somewhere just under a million black people walk into a Starbucks every single day in the US. If that was "just as likely" to get you tossed out as being rude, or offensive, or threatening to the staff, we'd expect a similar percentage of black people to be asked to leave or risk arrest as we'd see of those being tossed out due to those behaviors.

I think it's pretty clear that is not remotely close to the case. At least, I'd hope it is. If it's not, then you've got a serious case of narrative blinders going on.


I am standing by "just as likely" as I see plenty of stuff like this in the news all the time, and we all know, from your own admission, that you don't get your news from anywhere.
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#5064 May 03 2018 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
But it could just as easily be that they were different, not their behavior, but they themselves. It is JUST as likely.


No, it's not "just" as likely. Not if the "they" you're referring to here is merely the color of their skin. Two things can both be "possible", but with radically different probabilities. This is one of those cases. For someone with "professor" in his name, I'd think you'd be aware of the difference. Statistically somewhere just under a million black people walk into a Starbucks every single day in the US. If that was "just as likely" to get you tossed out as being rude, or offensive, or threatening to the staff, we'd expect a similar percentage of black people to be asked to leave or risk arrest as we'd see of those being tossed out due to those behaviors.

I think it's pretty clear that is not remotely close to the case. At least, I'd hope it is. If it's not, then you've got a serious case of narrative blinders going on.

So, if you could just show us the number of people tossed out of and/or arrested at Starbucks overall...
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#5065 May 03 2018 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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Also, is there a difference between likely and probable?

“Although the term ‘likely’ connotes something more than a mere possibility, it also connotes something less than a probability or reasonable certainty.” State v. Green, 18 Ohio App. 3d 69, 72, 480 N.E.2d 1128, 1132 (1984)."
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#5066 May 03 2018 at 6:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Gbaji wrote:

We don't know if they simply "left it at that", or if there were additional words, grumbling, etc that went on. We do know that they did sit down after that point though.
Exactly. That is their story and there is no alternative story (that I've seen) that contradicted it from any person there.

Gbaji wrote:
We don't actually know what they said at that time.
Read above

Gbaji wrote:
Honestly, that whole bit sounds fishy to me
Which is why you can't claim to be "neutral" on the case. You're trying to play both sides.

Gbaji wrote:
An altercation need not be loud to exist.

Almalieque wrote:
Coffee shops are more like libraries. If there is a disturbance, it is more likely to be known than in a bar with loud music and alcohol. If the patrons were unaware of anything, that only supports that the customers were at least speaking and behaving normally from afar.


#5067 May 03 2018 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
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Disagreements that would cause someone to ask another to leave don't have to be loud or noticed. Just because there was no alcohol or music playing, doesn't mean people heard or saw what occurred between the three people before the cops showed up and people started getting out their cell phones to make social media posts about "Hey look, black people being arrested!".
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#5068 May 03 2018 at 6:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
Disagreements that would cause someone to ask another to leave don't have to be loud or noticed.


This, of course, is true.

But that doesn't have anything to do with the reason that they were asked to leave. You don't have to yell to be racist. In fact, most racism is quiet. But saying that the disagreement was quiet means that racism is less or more likely to be a cause is stupid. And that's coming from Professor Stupidmonkey, and he knows stupid. Just read any one of his posts, and you will see what I mean!
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#5069 May 03 2018 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
You don't have to yell to be racist. In fact, most racism is quiet. But saying that the disagreement was quiet means that racism is less or more likely to be a cause is stupid.


Never said it did/didn't. The point was a counter to Alma's "Hey, no one said they heard anything."

Just continuing to say that so far the only real evidence that they were asked to leave because they were black, is that they were black. Whether or not there are 100 thousand, 700 thousand, or 1.3 million black people visiting Starbucks daily doesn't seem to make much of a difference in that sample size.

Edited, May 3rd 2018 9:00pm by TirithRR
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#5070 May 03 2018 at 8:24 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
You don't have to yell to be racist. In fact, most racism is quiet. But saying that the disagreement was quiet means that racism is less or more likely to be a cause is stupid.


Never said it did/didn't. The point was a counter to Alma's "Hey, no one said they heard anything."

Just continuing to say that so far the only real evidence that they were asked to leave because they were black, is that they were black. Whether or not there are 100 thousand, 700 thousand, or 1.3 million black people visiting Starbucks daily doesn't seem to make much of a difference in that sample size.

Edited, May 3rd 2018 9:00pm by TirithRR


I meant to say my post wasn't aimed at you, I just forgot. Smiley: tongue
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#5071 May 04 2018 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
Also, is there a difference between likely and probable?

“Although the term ‘likely’ connotes something more than a mere possibility, it also connotes something less than a probability or reasonable certainty.” State v. Green, 18 Ohio App. 3d 69, 72, 480 N.E.2d 1128, 1132 (1984)."
Anderson v Bell called them synonyms, so it's mostly just a matter of preference to the court.
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#5072 May 04 2018 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
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SHHHH!


I didn't want anyone to bring that up. Or the dictionary definitions.
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#5073 May 04 2018 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
But it could just as easily be that they were different, not their behavior, but they themselves. It is JUST as likely.


No, it's not "just" as likely. Not if the "they" you're referring to here is merely the color of their skin. Two things can both be "possible", but with radically different probabilities. This is one of those cases. For someone with "professor" in his name, I'd think you'd be aware of the difference. Statistically somewhere just under a million black people walk into a Starbucks every single day in the US. If that was "just as likely" to get you tossed out as being rude, or offensive, or threatening to the staff, we'd expect a similar percentage of black people to be asked to leave or risk arrest as we'd see of those being tossed out due to those behaviors.

I think it's pretty clear that is not remotely close to the case. At least, I'd hope it is. If it's not, then you've got a serious case of narrative blinders going on.


I am standing by "just as likely" as I see plenty of stuff like this in the news all the time, and we all know, from your own admission, that you don't get your news from anywhere.


Here's another one we can argue about for the reason behind the cause. Was it because of something they were doing? Were they arguing with the tour guides? Or was there something "different" about them?
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#5074 May 04 2018 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Tirith wrote:
Never said it did/didn't. The point was a counter to Alma's "Hey, no one said they heard anything."

I stated the fact that no other customers have came out to speak to the contrary of the two men's account of what happened. Gbaji responded with

Gbaji wrote:
"You are aware that store employees don't normally announce on loudspeaker when some kind of conflict is going on, right? Have you ever been in a bar where a bouncer grabs someone and pulls them out of the bar? Odds are your first clue that something was going on was the bouncer's actions, and possible some yelling and whatnot from the guy being manhandled. You probably had no clue there was a problem until that happened. "


I responded that a coffee shop is not like a club. If there is an altercation there, it's likely that someone would have seen it or heard it. If nothing was heard, then at a minimum, they appeared calm from afar (key word). I didn't claim that there was no dispute.
#5075 May 04 2018 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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While we are on the subject.... Apparently another couple was just asked to leave after being requested to change tables for a regular customer. Whether or not race was a factor is beside the point. The fact that this type of behavior continues to happen is why some people think it is. It is recorded that the manager says to leave because he doesn't like him.

https://www.facebook.com/RiseUpAndResist/videos/1826839677359249/
#5076 May 04 2018 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji the Oblivious wrote:
Obviously, they were causing a scene, drunk, on drugs, fighting, loving, living, and any number of things BESIDES being black, it's just obvious.
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