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#902 May 15 2015 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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Speaking of dead bodies, 2015 is shaping up to be such a magnificent year.
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#903 May 15 2015 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Speaking of dead bodies, 2015 is shaping up to be such a magnificent year.


First Ben E. King and now B.B. King? Which King is next, Larry?
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#904 May 15 2015 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Speaking of dead bodies, 2015 is shaping up to be such a magnificent year.


First Ben E. King and now B.B. King? Which King is next, Larry?


Don King? He's up there in age, right?
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#905 May 15 2015 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Speaking of dead bodies, 2015 is shaping up to be such a magnificent year.


First Ben E. King and now B.B. King? Which King is next, Larry?

On his next birthday (his 200th I believe) Larry will be formally adopting his proper title, "The Lich".
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#906 May 15 2015 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Speaking of dead bodies, 2015 is shaping up to be such a magnificent year.


First Ben E. King and now B.B. King? Which King is next, Larry?


Don King? He's up there in age, right?


You think Stephen will have another encounter with a rogue car?
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#907 May 15 2015 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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Every time Larry King is brought up I can't help but hear his name with Cary Elwes' accent from Robin Hood: Men In Tights.
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#908 May 15 2015 at 5:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
Do you or do you not believe that blacks vote Democratic for reasons outside of welfare? If no, then there is no point in trying to convince you "why", if you don't believe that it happens in the first place.


Sigh. Again, here's what I actually said:

gbaji wrote:
I would argue that the perception that Democrats support social programs that benefit black people is a huge reason why black people vote so overwhelmingly Democrat. If you think otherwise, then by all means, provide said alternative explanation.


I said that the perception that Democrats support social programs (not just welfare) is a huge reason (but not the only reason) why black people vote so overwhelmingly Democrat. So yes, of course black people also have other reasons. But the existence of other reasons does not preclude the fact that "support for social programs that benefit black people" is a huge reason for this.

You keep trying to frame this in an "all or nothing" way. As though if liberal social programs are not the *only* reason for blacks voting Democrat, then I can't point to them as a reason (much less a "huge reason") for blacks voting Democrat. But that's absurd. Do you agree that social programs are a big deal here? I think they are. I think they are the primary issue at hand. But, as I've pointed out repeatedly, they really shouldn't be. Blacks don't actually benefit from government social programs. I pointed this out with the whole charter school thing. I pointed it out again with the VRA. I pointed it out again with immigration (which I'm still not sure why you even brought up). And while I suppose not technically "social programs", many "social policies" of the Left are also harmful to blacks. You mentioned gun control, but gun control is most harmful to those living in the highest crime areas (which disproportionately means it harms blacks). You mentioned drug and prison reform, but that doesn't actually help those in poor neighborhoods with high crime rates. It makes things worse. What "reform" would you propose Shorter sentences? So now the criminals are out on the streets (in disproportionately black neighborhoods) faster? Drug reform? What form would that take, and how would that help change the currently massively disproportionate poverty that blacks suffer?

My argument through this entire thing has been that the root of most, if not all, problems that disproportionately affect blacks in the US is the disproportionate poverty rate. That's the "big problem". You want to "reform" things that are just symptoms of that problem. Drug laws affect blacks disproportionately because of the disproportionate poverty. Prison sentences affect blacks disproportionately for the same reason. Every single thing you talk about ultimately derives from that poverty difference.

That's the problem that needs solving. But you don't seem to want to even address it. You just want to argue about all of these other things. To me, that's about using the fact that blacks are disproportionately poor to create race based political arguments that will then resonate with black voters. You're being used. Again. The solution to all of those problems is to address the causes of disproportionate black poverty. But that's the one thing you steadfastly refuse to talk about.

Why is that?


Quote:
You asked me to provide an alternative reason why blacks vote Democratic outside of welfare, I gave at least 10. You cherry picked and distorted 2 and ignored the rest.


No. I looked at your list, pointed out that they were merely symptoms of the problem, and argued that we should be solving the real problem (poverty) instead of doing the equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship. The fact that you keep bringing up the "laundry list" and insisting that I must drop my argument about poverty and focus on those other distractions instead, speaks volumes about your unwillingness to look at the problem of poverty among black populations.


Quote:
Furthermore, unless you think that the Democratic platform is good for any demographic (in a positive way), then you will never accept any explanation.[/b][/u] You're merely trying to transition the conversation and then accuse me for being tangential, just like you did with the "Uncle Tom" topic.


Huh? Why? I don't think that the Democratic platform is good for any demographic (except maybe the uber wealthy, and connected Dem politicians and their friends of course). I said this several times already. I'm just pointing out that it's particularly bad for poor black people and wondering why black people vote 90% for the Dems anyway. But all you keep giving me as answers are either circular assumptions about the GOP motivations or problems that are really just symptoms of the very social policies you support when you vote Democrat. Which seems strange. If you didn't support the Dems and their social policies (specifically welfare, but there's more) were eliminated, there would not be such disproportionate poverty among blacks, and you wouldn't view things like "gun control", and "prison reform", and "drug reform", "minimum wage", and "affirmative action" as things that blacks should hold specific positions on because of their skin color. Do you get that it's the correlation between skin color and poverty that creates all of those things?

Fix the poverty issue and those other issues all cease to be "black issues". Get it? There's the answer to your "laundry list". Are we done with that yet? Or do I have to keep explaining this to you?
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#909 May 15 2015 at 6:54 PM Rating: Good
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How would you ameliorate poverty, other than your "remove all welfare" plan.
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#910 May 15 2015 at 7:32 PM Rating: Default
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Gbaji wrote:
I said that the perception that Democrats support social programs (not just welfare) is a huge reason (but not the only reason) why black people vote so overwhelmingly Democrat. So yes, of course black people also have other reasons. But the existence of other reasons does not preclude the fact that "support for social programs that benefit black people" is a huge reason for this.

You keep trying to frame this in an "all or nothing" way. As though if liberal social programs are not the *only* reason for blacks voting Democrat, then I can't point to them as a reason (much less a "huge reason") for blacks voting Democrat. But that's absurd. Do you agree that social programs are a big deal here? I think they are. I think they are the primary issue at hand. But, as I've pointed out repeatedly, they really shouldn't be. Blacks don't actually benefit from government social programs. I pointed this out with the whole charter school thing. I pointed it out again with the VRA. I pointed it out again with immigration (which I'm still not sure why you even brought up). And while I suppose not technically "social programs", many "social policies" of the Left are also harmful to blacks. You mentioned gun control, but gun control is most harmful to those living in the highest crime areas (which disproportionately means it harms blacks). You mentioned drug and prison reform, but that doesn't actually help those in poor neighborhoods with high crime rates. It makes things worse. What "reform" would you propose Shorter sentences? So now the criminals are out on the streets (in disproportionately black neighborhoods) faster? Drug reform? What form would that take, and how would that help change the currently massively disproportionate poverty that blacks suffer?

My argument through this entire thing has been that the root of most, if not all, problems that disproportionately affect blacks in the US is the disproportionate poverty rate. That's the "big problem". You want to "reform" things that are just symptoms of that problem. Drug laws affect blacks disproportionately because of the disproportionate poverty. Prison sentences affect blacks disproportionately for the same reason. Every single thing you talk about ultimately derives from that poverty difference.

That's the problem that needs solving. But you don't seem to want to even address it. You just want to argue about all of these other things. To me, that's about using the fact that blacks are disproportionately poor to create race based political arguments that will then resonate with black voters. You're being used. Again. The solution to all of those problems is to address the causes of disproportionate black poverty. But that's the one thing you steadfastly refuse to talk about.

Why is that?
I never implied that it was all or nothing. If you think that blacks primarily vote Democratic because of social programs, then you're implying that if the GOP had the same position (and/or the DEM had a different position), then blacks wouldn't overwhelmingly vote Democrat.

Gbaji wrote:


No. I looked at your list, pointed out that they were merely symptoms of the problem, and argued that we should be solving the real problem (poverty) instead of doing the equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship. The fact that you keep bringing up the "laundry list" and insisting that I must drop my argument about poverty and focus on those other distractions instead, speaks volumes about your unwillingness to look at the problem of poverty among black populations.
You asked for explanations for black Democratic support outside of social support and I gave them to you. Whether or not you agree that those reasons help the black community is irrelevant to your request.

Gbaji wrote:
Huh? Why? I don't think that the Democratic platform is good for any demographic (except maybe the uber wealthy, and connected Dem politicians and their friends of course). I said this several times already. I'm just pointing out that it's particularly bad for poor black people and wondering why black people vote 90% for the Dems anyway. But all you keep giving me as answers are either circular assumptions about the GOP motivations or problems that are really just symptoms of the very social policies you support when you vote Democrat. Which seems strange. If you didn't support the Dems and their social policies (specifically welfare, but there's more) were eliminated, there would not be such disproportionate poverty among blacks, and you wouldn't view things like "gun control", and "prison reform", and "drug reform", "minimum wage", and "affirmative action" as things that blacks should hold specific positions on because of their skin color. Do you get that it's the correlation between skin color and poverty that creates all of those things?

Fix the poverty issue and those other issues all cease to be "black issues". Get it? There's the answer to your "laundry list". Are we done with that yet? Or do I have to keep explaining this to you?
You have to acknowledge that there are Democratic policies that are good for people (in a positive way, i.e. not "lazy people benefit for not having to work") in order to accept any policy good for any subset of that people. Black people don't all agree on every position on that laundry list, just enough to end up voting Democrat.
#911 May 15 2015 at 7:34 PM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
How would you ameliorate poverty, other than your "remove all welfare" plan.
That's the thing. He has no plan. His concern isn't poverty, but the government's role in the solution, regardless if it is successful or not.
#912 May 16 2015 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
How would you ameliorate poverty, other than your "remove all welfare" plan.
That's the thing. He has no plan. His concern isn't poverty, but the government's role in the solution, regardless if it is successful or not.


That's my point.

A large piece of the big C. ideology is to complain about how the government operates, and the efficiency of it while offering no administrative solutions. Which actually is a solution, but it's not popular to say "let the wolves take what they may" as their anti-poverty plan, so it's left unspoken.

I'm all for 'reform' and improvements in efficiency, I'm enough of a little-c conservative that proper allocation is relevant to my interests. That isn't what is really desired in this case, rather a general strangling of departments until they look incompetent enough to cull.
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#913 May 16 2015 at 11:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Fix the poverty issue?

Increase minimum wage. Anybody working full time should be able to support themselves at some level.
Create jobs. Manufacturing, construction/infrastructure, whatever. We need to rebuild our production segment instead of relying on cheap foreign crap.
Improve edjumication. Better schooling means better work opportunities and better understanding of finances and self-sufficiency.
Decriminalize/legalize cannabis. Take non-violent offenders out of prisons and put them to work. Collect taxes. Reduce recidivism. All of this will increase our tax base.
Industrial hemp. Renewable energy. So much that can be done to build new labor markets to put our middle class to work.
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#914 May 17 2015 at 1:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Debalic wrote:
Fix the poverty issue?

Increase minimum wage. Anybody working full time should be able to support themselves at some level.
Create jobs. Manufacturing, construction/infrastructure, whatever. We need to rebuild our production segment instead of relying on cheap foreign crap.
Improve edjumication. Better schooling means better work opportunities and better understanding of finances and self-sufficiency.
Decriminalize/legalize cannabis. Take non-violent offenders out of prisons and put them to work. Collect taxes. Reduce recidivism. All of this will increase our tax base.
Industrial hemp. Renewable energy. So much that can be done to build new labor markets to put our middle class to work.


Citizen, your ideas make too much sense and create unnecesary unrest among the proles. Please report to re-edumification camp for crumulence adjustment.

Edited, May 17th 2015 3:38am by angrymnk
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#915 May 18 2015 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
How would you ameliorate poverty, other than your "remove all welfare" plan.
Obviously all the job makers, now flush with more tax money, will make more and better paying jobs. Duh.
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#916 May 19 2015 at 9:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Varus Update:
Political Wire wrote:
Failled Tennessee congressional candidate Robert Doggart (R) “admitted he spent months gathering weapons and plotting an all-out assault on the small Muslim enclave in Delaware County, New York,” the Chattanooga Times Free Press reports.

In a recorded phone call, Doggart told a woman “we’re gonna be carrying an M4 with 500 rounds of ammunition, light armor piercing. A pistol with 3 extra magazines and a machete. And if it gets down to the machete, we will cut them to shreds.”
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#917 May 19 2015 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Oh, Tennessee. Stay crazy.

In other news about crazies, I see that Lindsay Graham and Rick Perry are throwing their bonnets into the ring.
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#918 May 19 2015 at 9:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Political Wire wrote:
Failled Tennessee congressional candidate Robert Doggart (R) “admitted he spent months gathering weapons and plotting an all-out assault on the small Muslim enclave in Delaware County, New York,” the Chattanooga Times Free Press reports.
I like how the fear of terrorism is highest in places and in people that have zero chance of ever even witnessing terrorism.

Edited, May 19th 2015 11:59am by lolgaxe
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#919 May 19 2015 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Varus Update:
Political Wire wrote:
Failled Tennessee congressional candidate Robert Doggart (R) “admitted he spent months gathering weapons and plotting an all-out assault on the small Muslim enclave in Delaware County, New York,” the Chattanooga Times Free Press reports.

Hey, that's just up the road from the Hasidic Jewish enclave. I bet their softball teams have a bitter rivalry.
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#923 May 19 2015 at 11:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm tickled at how Varus is still haunting this place, ready to pop out of the bushes at a mention Smiley: laugh
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#924 May 19 2015 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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Someone has to pretend to represent scared white people with no connection to the outside world.

Well, a second person I guess.
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#925 May 19 2015 at 12:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's raining spiders

Not moving to Australia.
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#926 May 19 2015 at 12:54 PM Rating: Good
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Ha ha, no.
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